How can I change my rep? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How can I change my rep? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheAngryFish
05-02-07, 08:22 PM I and my friends play dnd pretty often, and we're all decent players. Not to be proud, but I am more familiar with the rules than the other players, and already know what to do in advance when confronted with just about any situation. In general, I'm much better at combat than my friends, and have gained a reputation as being "unkillable", which I think is far from the truth. In the last few games we've done, I'm usually the only one who dies, because I am faced up against creatures with a higher cr, as opposed to the other players, which really leads me to believe I am being picked on.

What can I do to fix this?
AtmaWeapon
05-02-07, 08:49 PM This is a hard question to answer. But, there are ways to do so.

1) Make a character based around a support role, rather then a fully optimized combat machine.

For example, make something like a bard, or a healing-oriented cleric. Something that focuses more on supporting and bolstering others then being a combat monster.

2) Stop Metagaming.

Now, this isn't meant as an insult. But chances are if you're that much better then the other players at the rules, then there's a very good chance that you're metagaming. Put your alchemists fire away against the troll, your character has no reason to suspect that they're nearly immune to physical damage.

3) If your group rolls for statistics, then stop. Point buy is the superior method.

Suggest that from now on, any PCs in the campaign are created using 28 point buy. This system ensures that PCs are balanced against each other from the getgo, ensuring that everyone has an equal footing. People may groan at first, but seriously - once you go point buy, you can never go back.
danielinthewolvesden
05-02-07, 09:16 PM Run a support or healing PC. Then the better/more optimized you get, the better the party gets, and the more they like you.

Healer, Bard, Dragon Shaman, Marshal.
Verdande
05-02-07, 10:22 PM Put your alchemists fire away against the troll, your character has no reason to suspect that they're nearly immune to physical damage.

Not to nitpick, but I'm pretty sure that in a fantasy world where wizards and clerics can learn dark, eldritch secrets about the nature of the world itself, that somebody would have told the poor peasant boy to stop hitting the troll with his stick and get some alchemists' fire, cause, you know, it works.

I totally agree with you, I just wanted to point out that little bit. =]
BoringInfoGuy
05-02-07, 10:26 PM This is a hard question to answer. But, there are ways to do so.

1) Make a character based around a support role, rather then a fully optimized combat machine.

For example, make something like a bard, or a healing-oriented cleric. Something that focuses more on supporting and bolstering others then being a combat monster.
Good Advice
2) Stop Metagaming.

Now, this isn't meant as an insult. But chances are if you're that much better then the other players at the rules, then there's a very good chance that you're metagaming. Put your alchemists fire away against the troll, your character has no reason to suspect that they're nearly immune to physical damage.
Also good. And if you know the rules well, help the other players learn. Without being arrogant.
3) If your group rolls for statistics, then stop. Point buy is the superior method.

Suggest that from now on, any PCs in the campaign are created using 28 point buy. This system ensures that PCs are balanced against each other from the getgo, ensuring that everyone has an equal footing. People may groan at first, but seriously - once you go point buy, you can never go back.
Not good advice. Is the problem that the player has better stats? No. It's that the player knows the rules better. Now, if you assume that one player knows the rules better than the others, like the poster here, and you then add in point buy, what do you think happens? The guy who knows the rules better can do more with those 28 points than the other players. So his rep is unchanged.

But what really annoys me is when someone derails a topic with the PB versus rolling debate.
AtmaWeapon
05-02-07, 11:01 PM Not good advice. Is the problem that the player has better stats? No. It's that the player knows the rules better.

That's fine, but here's my perspective on the situation.

There's a difference between knowing every rule in the rulebook, and there's being able to *USE* every rule in the rulebook. Rolling for stats gives you a much higher probability of being able to utilize several options at ONCE, instead of forcing you towards more of a speciality.

Take, for example, the simple fighter. With rolling, you can very easily specialize in enough of the various "alternative options" (tripping, sundering, etc) to be amazingly adept at killing just about *anything*. A point buy fighter doesn't usually get this luxury.

And ultimately, the problem ISN'T that the player knows the rules better then anyone. Knowing the rules better is never, ever, ever a problem. "I'm better because I know the rules better" is a straw-man for the true problem, which is the DM's perception that the combination of the character, run by a competant player, is making him too strong compared to the other players. This results in the player being paired against monsters that are too difficult for his character. No amount of knowledge of the rules is going to save, for example, a level 2 fighter vs. an Owlbear.

By Adapting to Point Buy, it forces the characters more in line with the balance scheme the game is designed around, which does a *LOT* to curb the issue here. It is not uncommon for rolled stats to result in characters with a point cost easily into the 40's. That, combined with a player who knows the rules potentially better then the DM, is generally going to result in either an "I win rediculously" or "oh crap, I just got owned" situation.

The guy who knows the rules better can do more with those 28 points than the other players.

If the other players do not understand the concept of statistics and stat modifiers, then they honestly have no business playing until they finish reading the whole 4 pages it takes to understand the subject. Player laziness and lack of willingness to read for the lose.
BoringInfoGuy
05-03-07, 12:08 AM Please. I've been the problem player with the better rules knowledge.

PB is not the issue here.

Not to be proud, but I am more familiar with the rules than the other players, and already know what to do in advance when confronted with just about any situation. In general, I'm much better at combat than my friends
Knowing the rules, using effective tactics and memorizing all the monster weaknesses in the MM. (Maybe not the last one). That gave him his rep. Not, "I rolled two 18's and nothing lower than 15." As far as you know, they already use PB.

Really, this whole idea that PB is the panacea to all problems at the gaming table is getting on my nerves. PB solves some, while creating others. There have been multiple threads on this topic. And multiple treads derailed by this topic.

Knowing the rules better is never a problem? Have you seen any of the posts by DM's frustrated when an experienced player brings a highly optimized character to a game with a bunch of new players?

It doesn't matter if you can use all the rules. Have you never heard the saying, "The amature sees many options, the master few"?

I know such a player. He always ends up finds the way to eck out every last inch of power from any rule system he's playing in. He's retired multiple characters on the grounds that they could defeat the rest of the party.
Myree
05-03-07, 02:55 AM I like the suggestions by AtmaWeapon, and agree completely with the sentiment that to PB or not is NOT the problem here.

To be blunt as a quarterstaff, I think the main problem is attitude, and the OP knows it. Look at the Title -- assuming "rep" means "reputation", then the topic here is interplayer relations, not character stats and abilities.

I have run into this many times -- in fact, many people I have played with over the years would probably think that maybe I was the one that wrote it! What is coming across to me is the whole "he's arogant/they're jeolous" arguement. You think you are better? Maybe you are... They think you are unbeatable? Maybe you are... The question is, if these opinions (and thus the reputation you feel is stigmatizing you) are keeping you and/or others from enjoying the game, then it's time to do something about it. And this post looks like a good start (insert AA-type joke "Hello AngryFish" here).

I would suggest a private discussion with the DM on what you are feeling, and what she/he suggests about it. Figure out a line the two of you can agree to (i.e. focus on what your character should or shouldn't know or have time to think through, instead of always acting on what you the player knows and have thought through or can communicate to the group). Be willing for your character to make some mistakes as long as they stay in character. Maybe set up a subtle signal between you so that she/he can let you know when you are getting near the line you don't think you should cross. I have had to do this myself on more than one occassion, and once you get over the annoyance of them always stopping you just when you are getting somewhere, it really does help!

Going from Atma's suggestions, if you are normally the leader, STOP IT -- at least for a while. Help someone else build up their leadership skills, and you practice being the good follower. If you have a good idea on what to do, bite your tongue until the life of the party depends on it -- and even then, try to help the actual leader to come up with it through some subtlety.

Really make a conscious effort to point out to the other players when you think they have done something right. And when you have a success, save the happy dance until you are alone -- you can use a small smirk and dance in your mind all you want without everyone else seeing it and thinking you are rubbing their nose in it. Same goes if someone compliments you on a great idea -- an simple nod, smile, and thanks is enough, not a drawn out explanation of how you got to your decision and all the experience you have on it.

But, then again, I've dragged on long enough already. Just remember, it's not that you or I are know-it-alls -- it's just that when it comes to information, we're full or IT!
Morwen
05-03-07, 04:21 AM In the last few games we've done, I'm usually the only one who dies, because I am faced up against creatures with a higher cr, as opposed to the other players, which really leads me to believe I am being picked on.

I wonder how this occurs. Don't your PCs travel in a group together?
TheAngryFish
05-03-07, 07:58 PM I wonder how this occurs. Don't your PCs travel in a group together?

Sometimes in a group, sometimes not, I like being in a group, but there are a few occasions where we aren't, but I can give an example of what happens in each.

In one game, we each went seperate ways for a while, and we each got some interesting challenges. I got to fight a glabrezu (I did pass a knowledge check). When he said that I was like, "wtf im a level 13 wizard, what am I supposed to do?" to this my dm said," be creative, you can handle it". He was nice (ROFL) enough to let me think out each move, but the demon resisted just about everyting. I finally used some high level scrolls and got him down while I was at 2hp left from near 100 ( I go heavy on hp in his games because of these things). I had a couple low level spells left, so to get rid of those, I got attacked by some kobold things who knew just how far to stand away from eachother to avoid all my area spells, they killed me. I realize I COULD have killed them after recounting the battle, but it was rediculous at the amount of thought it took.

In a lower level group quest I was a cleric, and got killed because all the orcs started attacking me after a couple rounds. I asked why, and the dm said,"The enemy cleric realized you were what was keeping you guys alive and made the other enemies attack you."

My dm has improved some after a small talk with him and these are just some worst cases, but he still picks on my characters so I can't become some kind of CoDzilla... even when I'm a rogue.
danielinthewolvesden
05-03-07, 10:09 PM Sometimes in a group, sometimes not, I like being in a group, but there are a few occasions where we aren't, but I can give an example of what happens in each..

NEVER split the group.
Hydryh
05-06-07, 01:02 AM I... ...have gained a reputation as being "unkillable"...
What can I do to fix this?

Die. Several times. Eventually they'll give up on you.
Shadowhowler
05-06-07, 02:59 AM NEVER split the group.

Aw gezz, not this again.

Sometimes, it MAKES SENSE to split the damn group. Very few people are willing to spend 24/7 with several other people... and sometimes, things can be acomplished better FOR the group by spliting the group. Like Scouting. Or a Wizard making a quick teleport back to town to pick up extra supplies. Or a Rogue sneaking into a castle and opening the front door for the part.

The group does and should split up sometimes.
Thor_axe_impaler
05-06-07, 08:00 AM To you, as a player: Its always a good idea never to play the same character architype more than once if your trying to get someoneto think differently of you. Maybe you should ask someone, strait up, if they thinks theirs anything you can do to change and become more likeable.

To you, as a character: Change your play style, playing a support character works, or you could try a totally different role playing strategy (i.e. start role playing if you haven't been, grow more distant or close to the party). |Try not to show that your so good at combat, people wont think your so combat-heavy anymore.
TMX
05-06-07, 06:40 PM Hehehe, in my experience, the answer is "get used to it".

I could play a Paladin of Ultimate Holyness, and still be accused of every misdeed going by the party...

You can assasinate a hundred enemies, and none of the party bat an eyelid...
but kill one old man and frame his young child for the murder just once, and you're labeled for life...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheAngryFish 05-02-07, 08:22 PM	I and my friends play dnd pretty often, and we're all decent players. Not to be proud, but I am more familiar with the rules than the other players, and already know what to do in advance when confronted with just about any situation. In general, I'm much better at combat than my friends, and have gained a reputation as being "unkillable", which I think is far from the truth. In the last few games we've done, I'm usually the only one who dies, because I am faced up against creatures with a higher cr, as opposed to the other players, which really leads me to believe I am being picked on. What can I do to fix this?
AtmaWeapon 05-02-07, 08:49 PM	This is a hard question to answer. But, there are ways to do so. 1) Make a character based around a support role, rather then a fully optimized combat machine. For example, make something like a bard, or a healing-oriented cleric. Something that focuses more on supporting and bolstering others then being a combat monster. 2) Stop Metagaming. Now, this isn't meant as an insult. But chances are if you're that much better then the other players at the rules, then there's a very good chance that you're metagaming. Put your alchemists fire away against the troll, your character has no reason to suspect that they're nearly immune to physical damage. 3) If your group rolls for statistics, then stop. Point buy is the superior method. Suggest that from now on, any PCs in the campaign are created using 28 point buy. This system ensures that PCs are balanced against each other from the getgo, ensuring that everyone has an equal footing. People may groan at first, but seriously - once you go point buy, you can never go back.
danielinthewolvesden 05-02-07, 09:16 PM	Run a support or healing PC. Then the better/more optimized you get, the better the party gets, and the more they like you. Healer, Bard, Dragon Shaman, Marshal.
Verdande 05-02-07, 10:22 PM	Put your alchemists fire away against the troll, your character has no reason to suspect that they're nearly immune to physical damage. Not to nitpick, but I'm pretty sure that in a fantasy world where wizards and clerics can learn dark, eldritch secrets about the nature of the world itself, that somebody would have told the poor peasant boy to stop hitting the troll with his stick and get some alchemists' fire, cause, you know, it works. I totally agree with you, I just wanted to point out that little bit. =]
BoringInfoGuy 05-02-07, 10:26 PM	This is a hard question to answer. But, there are ways to do so. 1) Make a character based around a support role, rather then a fully optimized combat machine. For example, make something like a bard, or a healing-oriented cleric. Something that focuses more on supporting and bolstering others then being a combat monster. Good Advice 2) Stop Metagaming. Now, this isn't meant as an insult. But chances are if you're that much better then the other players at the rules, then there's a very good chance that you're metagaming. Put your alchemists fire away against the troll, your character has no reason to suspect that they're nearly immune to physical damage. Also good. And if you know the rules well, help the other players learn. Without being arrogant. 3) If your group rolls for statistics, then stop. Point buy is the superior method. Suggest that from now on, any PCs in the campaign are created using 28 point buy. This system ensures that PCs are balanced against each other from the getgo, ensuring that everyone has an equal footing. People may groan at first, but seriously - once you go point buy, you can never go back. Not good advice. Is the problem that the player has better stats? No. It's that the player knows the rules better. Now, if you assume that one player knows the rules better than the others, like the poster here, and you then add in point buy, what do you think happens? The guy who knows the rules better can do more with those 28 points than the other players. So his rep is unchanged. But what really annoys me is when someone derails a topic with the PB versus rolling debate.
AtmaWeapon 05-02-07, 11:01 PM	Not good advice. Is the problem that the player has better stats? No. It's that the player knows the rules better. That's fine, but here's my perspective on the situation. There's a difference between knowing every rule in the rulebook, and there's being able to USE every rule in the rulebook. Rolling for stats gives you a much higher probability of being able to utilize several options at ONCE, instead of forcing you towards more of a speciality. Take, for example, the simple fighter. With rolling, you can very easily specialize in enough of the various "alternative options" (tripping, sundering, etc) to be amazingly adept at killing just about anything. A point buy fighter doesn't usually get this luxury. And ultimately, the problem ISN'T that the player knows the rules better then anyone. Knowing the rules better is never, ever, ever a problem. "I'm better because I know the rules better" is a straw-man for the true problem, which is the DM's perception that the combination of the character, run by a competant player, is making him too strong compared to the other players. This results in the player being paired against monsters that are too difficult for his character. No amount of knowledge of the rules is going to save, for example, a level 2 fighter vs. an Owlbear. By Adapting to Point Buy, it forces the characters more in line with the balance scheme the game is designed around, which does a LOT to curb the issue here. It is not uncommon for rolled stats to result in characters with a point cost easily into the 40's. That, combined with a player who knows the rules potentially better then the DM, is generally going to result in either an "I win rediculously" or "oh crap, I just got owned" situation. The guy who knows the rules better can do more with those 28 points than the other players. If the other players do not understand the concept of statistics and stat modifiers, then they honestly have no business playing until they finish reading the whole 4 pages it takes to understand the subject. Player laziness and lack of willingness to read for the lose.
BoringInfoGuy 05-03-07, 12:08 AM	Please. I've been the problem player with the better rules knowledge. PB is not the issue here. Not to be proud, but I am more familiar with the rules than the other players, and already know what to do in advance when confronted with just about any situation. In general, I'm much better at combat than my friends Knowing the rules, using effective tactics and memorizing all the monster weaknesses in the MM. (Maybe not the last one). That gave him his rep. Not, "I rolled two 18's and nothing lower than 15." As far as you know, they already use PB. Really, this whole idea that PB is the panacea to all problems at the gaming table is getting on my nerves. PB solves some, while creating others. There have been multiple threads on this topic. And multiple treads derailed by this topic. Knowing the rules better is never a problem? Have you seen any of the posts by DM's frustrated when an experienced player brings a highly optimized character to a game with a bunch of new players? It doesn't matter if you can use all the rules. Have you never heard the saying, "The amature sees many options, the master few"? I know such a player. He always ends up finds the way to eck out every last inch of power from any rule system he's playing in. He's retired multiple characters on the grounds that they could defeat the rest of the party.
Myree 05-03-07, 02:55 AM	I like the suggestions by AtmaWeapon, and agree completely with the sentiment that to PB or not is NOT the problem here. To be blunt as a quarterstaff, I think the main problem is attitude, and the OP knows it. Look at the Title -- assuming "rep" means "reputation", then the topic here is interplayer relations, not character stats and abilities. I have run into this many times -- in fact, many people I have played with over the years would probably think that maybe I was the one that wrote it! What is coming across to me is the whole "he's arogant/they're jeolous" arguement. You think you are better? Maybe you are... They think you are unbeatable? Maybe you are... The question is, if these opinions (and thus the reputation you feel is stigmatizing you) are keeping you and/or others from enjoying the game, then it's time to do something about it. And this post looks like a good start (insert AA-type joke "Hello AngryFish" here). I would suggest a private discussion with the DM on what you are feeling, and what she/he suggests about it. Figure out a line the two of you can agree to (i.e. focus on what your character should or shouldn't know or have time to think through, instead of always acting on what you the player knows and have thought through or can communicate to the group). Be willing for your character to make some mistakes as long as they stay in character. Maybe set up a subtle signal between you so that she/he can let you know when you are getting near the line you don't think you should cross. I have had to do this myself on more than one occassion, and once you get over the annoyance of them always stopping you just when you are getting somewhere, it really does help! Going from Atma's suggestions, if you are normally the leader, STOP IT -- at least for a while. Help someone else build up their leadership skills, and you practice being the good follower. If you have a good idea on what to do, bite your tongue until the life of the party depends on it -- and even then, try to help the actual leader to come up with it through some subtlety. Really make a conscious effort to point out to the other players when you think they have done something right. And when you have a success, save the happy dance until you are alone -- you can use a small smirk and dance in your mind all you want without everyone else seeing it and thinking you are rubbing their nose in it. Same goes if someone compliments you on a great idea -- an simple nod, smile, and thanks is enough, not a drawn out explanation of how you got to your decision and all the experience you have on it. But, then again, I've dragged on long enough already. Just remember, it's not that you or I are know-it-alls -- it's just that when it comes to information, we're full or IT!
Morwen 05-03-07, 04:21 AM	In the last few games we've done, I'm usually the only one who dies, because I am faced up against creatures with a higher cr, as opposed to the other players, which really leads me to believe I am being picked on. I wonder how this occurs. Don't your PCs travel in a group together?
TheAngryFish 05-03-07, 07:58 PM	I wonder how this occurs. Don't your PCs travel in a group together? Sometimes in a group, sometimes not, I like being in a group, but there are a few occasions where we aren't, but I can give an example of what happens in each. In one game, we each went seperate ways for a while, and we each got some interesting challenges. I got to fight a glabrezu (I did pass a knowledge check). When he said that I was like, "wtf im a level 13 wizard, what am I supposed to do?" to this my dm said," be creative, you can handle it". He was nice (ROFL) enough to let me think out each move, but the demon resisted just about everyting. I finally used some high level scrolls and got him down while I was at 2hp left from near 100 ( I go heavy on hp in his games because of these things). I had a couple low level spells left, so to get rid of those, I got attacked by some kobold things who knew just how far to stand away from eachother to avoid all my area spells, they killed me. I realize I COULD have killed them after recounting the battle, but it was rediculous at the amount of thought it took. In a lower level group quest I was a cleric, and got killed because all the orcs started attacking me after a couple rounds. I asked why, and the dm said,"The enemy cleric realized you were what was keeping you guys alive and made the other enemies attack you." My dm has improved some after a small talk with him and these are just some worst cases, but he still picks on my characters so I can't become some kind of CoDzilla... even when I'm a rogue.
danielinthewolvesden 05-03-07, 10:09 PM	Sometimes in a group, sometimes not, I like being in a group, but there are a few occasions where we aren't, but I can give an example of what happens in each.. NEVER split the group.
Hydryh 05-06-07, 01:02 AM	I... ...have gained a reputation as being "unkillable"... What can I do to fix this? Die. Several times. Eventually they'll give up on you.
Shadowhowler 05-06-07, 02:59 AM	NEVER split the group. Aw gezz, not this again. Sometimes, it MAKES SENSE to split the damn group. Very few people are willing to spend 24/7 with several other people... and sometimes, things can be acomplished better FOR the group by spliting the group. Like Scouting. Or a Wizard making a quick teleport back to town to pick up extra supplies. Or a Rogue sneaking into a castle and opening the front door for the part. The group does and should split up sometimes.
Thor_axe_impaler 05-06-07, 08:00 AM	To you, as a player: Its always a good idea never to play the same character architype more than once if your trying to get someoneto think differently of you. Maybe you should ask someone, strait up, if they thinks theirs anything you can do to change and become more likeable. To you, as a character: Change your play style, playing a support character works, or you could try a totally different role playing strategy (i.e. start role playing if you haven't been, grow more distant or close to the party). \|Try not to show that your so good at combat, people wont think your so combat-heavy anymore.
TMX 05-06-07, 06:40 PM	Hehehe, in my experience, the answer is "get used to it". I could play a Paladin of Ultimate Holyness, and still be accused of every misdeed going by the party... You can assasinate a hundred enemies, and none of the party bat an eyelid... but kill one old man and frame his young child for the murder just once, and you're labeled for life...