How can I justify my cleric? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How can I justify my cleric? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ZypherX
02-08-07, 11:02 AM I was looking at making a LN cleric of Zarus. He's in Races of Destiny, and his big thing is that Humans are the perfect race and all other races are there to serve and/or be conquered (LE diety). The thing is, he hates half-breeds with a passion and prefers that they be killed on sight. Now, this causes problems if anyone in the party wants to be half-elf, half-orc, or the like. Is there any way I can justify why my cleric would be in a group with one of these races?
Hack and Smasher
02-08-07, 11:48 AM Treat them as expendable but useful, since they already exist they might as well be doing something useful. A good solid ends justify means mentality goes along way.
Pajaul
02-08-07, 12:21 PM They are helping you achieve your goal.

After all. Once you have cleansed the world of the impure blood, you can then turn on them. Also, they act as camouflage, luring out any impure blooded fools and making them trust you because you journey with other impure bloods. The limits of your betrayal are only beset by time and patience. And as we all know, such half breeds are ultimately unhappy. Never finding their way in the world, never being able to fit in. You are doing them a favor by ending their suffering.

Keep your friends close...
...your enemies closer.

Hows that?
DreadArchon
02-08-07, 12:49 PM Cast Baleful Polymorph on them while they sleep.

"Ah, that was a great nap... Wait... Why am I weaker, smarter, trained in fletchery, and capable of Manyshot now? :confused: "
GospelofRob
02-08-07, 12:52 PM Dosn't Zarus preach humans are "better" and that all other races need to be brought under humans to be enlightened? (Assuming you want to pull the LG side of the coin)

Treat them as children that need to understand that they need to become more like humans, more adaptable and caring and all that jazz.
DarkNick
02-08-07, 02:59 PM I don't really think you can justify it. A zealot can be pretty difficult to play. Just tone him down, there is nothing to say he has to be a zealot - turn his hatred for half breeds into a strong dislike and mistrust, that is until he gets to know them i.e. party members are no problem. Why make it hard on yourself and the other players?
Reversefigure4
02-08-07, 04:05 PM Is there any way I can justify why my cleric would be in a group with one of these races?

No.

A character who wants to kill all half-breeds on sight is suitable for only a very narrow campaign - an evil one where nobody plays as half-breeds.
lint trap
02-08-07, 04:25 PM Now, this causes problems if anyone in the party wants to be half-elf, half-orc, or the like. Is there any way I can justify why my cleric would be in a group with one of these races?

Sure, there are a couple ways, especially since your cleric isn't LE himself.

1. You don't know they're half-breeds. The half elf looks human, and the half orc looks ugly. Probably won't work for long, though, even if the other party members feel like playing along.

2. You want to "cure" them. As far as you are concerned, your friends are pure humans trapped in a mongrel's body. You travel with them, try to help them get in touch with their human side, and eventually push for a Ritual of Transformation (ala Savage Species).

This option has the most roleplaying opportunities. Your character becomes a nice, kind, well-meaning racist bastard. Think Spencer Tracy in "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner."

3. They're a means to an end. You tolerate their presence because it furthers your own goals, and those goals are greater than would be served by killing them. Just because they're inferior beings doesn't mean they don't have their uses. Tolerating these people becomes a test of faith for your cleric, proof to Zarus that you can maintain control and discipline even in the face of your most hated enemies.
Ace_of_Diamonds
02-08-07, 04:29 PM Making a concept work is all about give and take. I'd recommend retaining the fact that you have a burning hatred towards half-breeds, but ditch the "prefer to kill on sight" thing. Desire to see them eventually dead, maybe, but not killing on sight.
ZypherX
02-08-07, 07:38 PM I didn't know about that ritual of transformation... that's probably my best bet. Convince the half-breeds in the party that they're flawed, but not without hope, and try to perfom the ritual.

I like it.
Thanqol
02-08-07, 10:44 PM Psychological waaaaaar-faaaaare!
danielinthewolvesden
02-09-07, 01:44 PM This sounds too much like you are going to be "one of those guys who make up a disruptive PC then blame his jerk behavior on roleplaying". I do not think you really are, as you posted this thread, assuming you listen to the advice you asked for.

There are so many other choices.
Solik
02-09-07, 01:54 PM I don't see how you can possibly be LN without switching from kill-on-sight to convince-to-transform. Good call.
Tiberia
02-09-07, 06:53 PM This sounds too much like you are going to be "one of those guys who make up a disruptive PC then blame his jerk behavior on roleplaying". I do not think you really are, as you posted this thread, assuming you listen to the advice you asked for.

There are so many other choices.
The Character concept is an evil Racist. The Game Mechanics require each PC to be/ appear to be a team player consider the inferior Races to be expendible cannon fodder, don't make a big deal of telling them that they are cannon-fodder all the time.
Bruunwald
02-09-07, 07:17 PM No.

A character who wants to kill all half-breeds on sight is suitable for only a very narrow campaign - an evil one where nobody plays as half-breeds.

Exactly. Just drop the half-breed-killing part. You're creeping me out with it.
Callista
02-09-07, 09:14 PM Your character shouldn't believe in killing half-breeds (anyway, that would make him LE, not LN).

Rather, he should have a really patronizing attitude towards them--treat them like well-trained dogs or children. Believe it's your duty to "train" them and "use them for Zarus's purposes".

Read up on the attitude that non-abusive slaveholders (if you ignore the idea that slavery itself is abusive) had towards black people before the Civil War; that's about what you can go for. Kind of a "you mean well but you're just fundamentally inferior" attitude.

Oh, and make sure to talk to the players of any characters towards which yours will act this way; you should work out the way your two characters will interact, and make sure the other player knows you're not being insulting towards him (only your chracter to his character).

Be prepared to switch deities if your character decides the "half-breeds" in your party are sentient equals after all; be prepared to leave the party or die if your character develops in such a way as to attempt murder of "half-breed" party members.
DreadArchon
02-09-07, 10:05 PM Oops, you'd need Polymorph Any Object rather than Baleful Polymorph, which makes it more difficult... I still suggest that you save up for scrolls of Polymorph Any Object, though. (Or do you even have access to the Trickery domain?)
ZypherX
02-10-07, 03:21 PM Well, I tried, but my group thinks that a cleric of Zarus couldn't work in a group with a half-breed. *sigh* I'd like to thank everyone for their advice.

Now, any tips for RPing a LN cleric of Hextor? ;)
kelvinaw273
02-10-07, 05:40 PM I was looking at making a LN cleric of Zarus. He's in Races of Destiny, and his big thing is that Humans are the perfect race and all other races are there to serve and/or be conquered (LE diety). The thing is, he hates half-breeds with a passion and prefers that they be killed on sight. Now, this causes problems if anyone in the party wants to be half-elf, half-orc, or the like. Is there any way I can justify why my cleric would be in a group with one of these races?

OK ... so you really wanted to play a LE character but the DM said no evil?

No seriously, when you have a character concept with a code that is going to cause problems, you should be discussing it with the DM ahead of time. You don't play a paladin if there are evil members of the party, for example, it's just common courtesy.

I suggest you talk to your fellow players and your DM about this character concept, and if it is going to cause trouble, scrap it.
TriOmegaZero
02-10-07, 08:27 PM No seriously, when you have a character concept with a code that is going to cause problems, you should be discussing it with the DM ahead of time. You don't play a paladin if there are evil members of the party, for example, it's just common courtesy.

Actually, you do when there's already a player who only plays CE warlocks that want to kill everything that gets in their way. ^_^ It's especially fun when it's a kender paladin...good times.
kelvinaw273
02-10-07, 09:00 PM Actually, you do when there's already a player who only plays CE warlocks that want to kill everything that gets in their way. ^_^ It's especially fun when it's a kender paladin...good times.

There's always ONE.
Always-Late
02-10-07, 09:05 PM "Man, I hate half-elves, but you're okay. You're not like those other half-elves."
CaptainPicard
02-10-07, 11:03 PM Well, I tried, but my group thinks that a cleric of Zarus couldn't work in a group with a half-breed. *sigh* I'd like to thank everyone for their advice.

Now, any tips for RPing a LN cleric of Hextor? ;)

LN Cleric of Hextor is much easier than a Cleric of Zarus. Worship Hextor as a God of fitness, war, and absolute obedience. Playing a Cleric/Monk or a Cleric/Swordsage might be able to help with this. Be merciless to your enemies and utterly devoted to fulfilling whatever duty you are given. Treat people who shirk responsibility, train "softly", and act with compassion towards enemies with disdain. Entering honourable battle is a religious experience for you, and it should be treated with the proper respect. You're actually a very good team player, even if you come across as a drill sergeant from time to time.

I was actually going to recommend changing to Hextor before you said it, even though you posed it more as a joke than anything.
Votan
02-10-07, 11:19 PM I wonder how a cleric of Hextor would interact with arcane casters and rogues if played in a drill sergeant manner? I would think that they would be much more in tune with the Fighters and Clerics in the party then the characters who use magic or stealth to further their ends -- especially the LN version (LE is likely more unwilling to compromise principle for advantage and NE is definitely more likely).

What about a LN cleric of Hieornonous?
Callista
02-11-07, 12:42 AM LN cleric of a war deity? You're the ultimate soldier. Absolutely loyal, absolutlely disciplined. The Chaotics are sure to hate you. :P
ZypherX
02-11-07, 04:52 PM Heh, thanks for the replies everyone. I think I've decided to try a different tack with my cleric, but this thread gave me some good ideas for the future.
Cifer
02-11-07, 06:26 PM What about a LN cleric of Hieornonous?
Lord Heironeous is on a crusade against evil. Thus, evil must be exterminated.
There is no redemption, for it is treachery. There is only judgement.
There is no compassion, for it is weakness. There is only justice.
There is no doubt, for it is heresy. There is only loyalty.

Scary?
ZypherX
02-11-07, 09:56 PM Sounds like a Shadowbane Inquisitor to me.
Callista
02-12-07, 11:47 AM Nah, those are Exalted Good spy/cop/judge types. LN wouldn't qualify.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ZypherX 02-08-07, 11:02 AM	I was looking at making a LN cleric of Zarus. He's in Races of Destiny, and his big thing is that Humans are the perfect race and all other races are there to serve and/or be conquered (LE diety). The thing is, he hates half-breeds with a passion and prefers that they be killed on sight. Now, this causes problems if anyone in the party wants to be half-elf, half-orc, or the like. Is there any way I can justify why my cleric would be in a group with one of these races?
Hack and Smasher 02-08-07, 11:48 AM	Treat them as expendable but useful, since they already exist they might as well be doing something useful. A good solid ends justify means mentality goes along way.
Pajaul 02-08-07, 12:21 PM	They are helping you achieve your goal. After all. Once you have cleansed the world of the impure blood, you can then turn on them. Also, they act as camouflage, luring out any impure blooded fools and making them trust you because you journey with other impure bloods. The limits of your betrayal are only beset by time and patience. And as we all know, such half breeds are ultimately unhappy. Never finding their way in the world, never being able to fit in. You are doing them a favor by ending their suffering. Keep your friends close... ...your enemies closer. Hows that?
DreadArchon 02-08-07, 12:49 PM	Cast Baleful Polymorph on them while they sleep. "Ah, that was a great nap... Wait... Why am I weaker, smarter, trained in fletchery, and capable of Manyshot now? :confused: "
GospelofRob 02-08-07, 12:52 PM	Dosn't Zarus preach humans are "better" and that all other races need to be brought under humans to be enlightened? (Assuming you want to pull the LG side of the coin) Treat them as children that need to understand that they need to become more like humans, more adaptable and caring and all that jazz.
DarkNick 02-08-07, 02:59 PM	I don't really think you can justify it. A zealot can be pretty difficult to play. Just tone him down, there is nothing to say he has to be a zealot - turn his hatred for half breeds into a strong dislike and mistrust, that is until he gets to know them i.e. party members are no problem. Why make it hard on yourself and the other players?
Reversefigure4 02-08-07, 04:05 PM	Is there any way I can justify why my cleric would be in a group with one of these races? No. A character who wants to kill all half-breeds on sight is suitable for only a very narrow campaign - an evil one where nobody plays as half-breeds.
lint trap 02-08-07, 04:25 PM	Now, this causes problems if anyone in the party wants to be half-elf, half-orc, or the like. Is there any way I can justify why my cleric would be in a group with one of these races? Sure, there are a couple ways, especially since your cleric isn't LE himself. 1. You don't know they're half-breeds. The half elf looks human, and the half orc looks ugly. Probably won't work for long, though, even if the other party members feel like playing along. 2. You want to "cure" them. As far as you are concerned, your friends are pure humans trapped in a mongrel's body. You travel with them, try to help them get in touch with their human side, and eventually push for a Ritual of Transformation (ala Savage Species). This option has the most roleplaying opportunities. Your character becomes a nice, kind, well-meaning racist bastard. Think Spencer Tracy in "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner." 3. They're a means to an end. You tolerate their presence because it furthers your own goals, and those goals are greater than would be served by killing them. Just because they're inferior beings doesn't mean they don't have their uses. Tolerating these people becomes a test of faith for your cleric, proof to Zarus that you can maintain control and discipline even in the face of your most hated enemies.
Ace_of_Diamonds 02-08-07, 04:29 PM	Making a concept work is all about give and take. I'd recommend retaining the fact that you have a burning hatred towards half-breeds, but ditch the "prefer to kill on sight" thing. Desire to see them eventually dead, maybe, but not killing on sight.
ZypherX 02-08-07, 07:38 PM	I didn't know about that ritual of transformation... that's probably my best bet. Convince the half-breeds in the party that they're flawed, but not without hope, and try to perfom the ritual. I like it.
Thanqol 02-08-07, 10:44 PM	Psychological waaaaaar-faaaaare!
danielinthewolvesden 02-09-07, 01:44 PM	This sounds too much like you are going to be "one of those guys who make up a disruptive PC then blame his jerk behavior on roleplaying". I do not think you really are, as you posted this thread, assuming you listen to the advice you asked for. There are so many other choices.
Solik 02-09-07, 01:54 PM	I don't see how you can possibly be LN without switching from kill-on-sight to convince-to-transform. Good call.
Tiberia 02-09-07, 06:53 PM	This sounds too much like you are going to be "one of those guys who make up a disruptive PC then blame his jerk behavior on roleplaying". I do not think you really are, as you posted this thread, assuming you listen to the advice you asked for. There are so many other choices. The Character concept is an evil Racist. The Game Mechanics require each PC to be/ appear to be a team player consider the inferior Races to be expendible cannon fodder, don't make a big deal of telling them that they are cannon-fodder all the time.
Bruunwald 02-09-07, 07:17 PM	No. A character who wants to kill all half-breeds on sight is suitable for only a very narrow campaign - an evil one where nobody plays as half-breeds. Exactly. Just drop the half-breed-killing part. You're creeping me out with it.
Callista 02-09-07, 09:14 PM	Your character shouldn't believe in killing half-breeds (anyway, that would make him LE, not LN). Rather, he should have a really patronizing attitude towards them--treat them like well-trained dogs or children. Believe it's your duty to "train" them and "use them for Zarus's purposes". Read up on the attitude that non-abusive slaveholders (if you ignore the idea that slavery itself is abusive) had towards black people before the Civil War; that's about what you can go for. Kind of a "you mean well but you're just fundamentally inferior" attitude. Oh, and make sure to talk to the players of any characters towards which yours will act this way; you should work out the way your two characters will interact, and make sure the other player knows you're not being insulting towards him (only your chracter to his character). Be prepared to switch deities if your character decides the "half-breeds" in your party are sentient equals after all; be prepared to leave the party or die if your character develops in such a way as to attempt murder of "half-breed" party members.
DreadArchon 02-09-07, 10:05 PM	Oops, you'd need Polymorph Any Object rather than Baleful Polymorph, which makes it more difficult... I still suggest that you save up for scrolls of Polymorph Any Object, though. (Or do you even have access to the Trickery domain?)
ZypherX 02-10-07, 03:21 PM	Well, I tried, but my group thinks that a cleric of Zarus couldn't work in a group with a half-breed. sigh I'd like to thank everyone for their advice. Now, any tips for RPing a LN cleric of Hextor? ;)
kelvinaw273 02-10-07, 05:40 PM	I was looking at making a LN cleric of Zarus. He's in Races of Destiny, and his big thing is that Humans are the perfect race and all other races are there to serve and/or be conquered (LE diety). The thing is, he hates half-breeds with a passion and prefers that they be killed on sight. Now, this causes problems if anyone in the party wants to be half-elf, half-orc, or the like. Is there any way I can justify why my cleric would be in a group with one of these races? OK ... so you really wanted to play a LE character but the DM said no evil? No seriously, when you have a character concept with a code that is going to cause problems, you should be discussing it with the DM ahead of time. You don't play a paladin if there are evil members of the party, for example, it's just common courtesy. I suggest you talk to your fellow players and your DM about this character concept, and if it is going to cause trouble, scrap it.
TriOmegaZero 02-10-07, 08:27 PM	No seriously, when you have a character concept with a code that is going to cause problems, you should be discussing it with the DM ahead of time. You don't play a paladin if there are evil members of the party, for example, it's just common courtesy. Actually, you do when there's already a player who only plays CE warlocks that want to kill everything that gets in their way. ^_^ It's especially fun when it's a kender paladin...good times.
kelvinaw273 02-10-07, 09:00 PM	Actually, you do when there's already a player who only plays CE warlocks that want to kill everything that gets in their way. ^_^ It's especially fun when it's a kender paladin...good times. There's always ONE.
Always-Late 02-10-07, 09:05 PM	"Man, I hate half-elves, but you're okay. You're not like those other half-elves."
CaptainPicard 02-10-07, 11:03 PM	Well, I tried, but my group thinks that a cleric of Zarus couldn't work in a group with a half-breed. sigh I'd like to thank everyone for their advice. Now, any tips for RPing a LN cleric of Hextor? ;) LN Cleric of Hextor is much easier than a Cleric of Zarus. Worship Hextor as a God of fitness, war, and absolute obedience. Playing a Cleric/Monk or a Cleric/Swordsage might be able to help with this. Be merciless to your enemies and utterly devoted to fulfilling whatever duty you are given. Treat people who shirk responsibility, train "softly", and act with compassion towards enemies with disdain. Entering honourable battle is a religious experience for you, and it should be treated with the proper respect. You're actually a very good team player, even if you come across as a drill sergeant from time to time. I was actually going to recommend changing to Hextor before you said it, even though you posed it more as a joke than anything.
Votan 02-10-07, 11:19 PM	I wonder how a cleric of Hextor would interact with arcane casters and rogues if played in a drill sergeant manner? I would think that they would be much more in tune with the Fighters and Clerics in the party then the characters who use magic or stealth to further their ends -- especially the LN version (LE is likely more unwilling to compromise principle for advantage and NE is definitely more likely). What about a LN cleric of Hieornonous?
Callista 02-11-07, 12:42 AM	LN cleric of a war deity? You're the ultimate soldier. Absolutely loyal, absolutlely disciplined. The Chaotics are sure to hate you. :P
ZypherX 02-11-07, 04:52 PM	Heh, thanks for the replies everyone. I think I've decided to try a different tack with my cleric, but this thread gave me some good ideas for the future.
Cifer 02-11-07, 06:26 PM	What about a LN cleric of Hieornonous? Lord Heironeous is on a crusade against evil. Thus, evil must be exterminated. There is no redemption, for it is treachery. There is only judgement. There is no compassion, for it is weakness. There is only justice. There is no doubt, for it is heresy. There is only loyalty. Scary?
ZypherX 02-11-07, 09:56 PM	Sounds like a Shadowbane Inquisitor to me.
Callista 02-12-07, 11:47 AM	Nah, those are Exalted Good spy/cop/judge types. LN wouldn't qualify.