Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LemantDarkfire 07-05-06, 04:59 AM	I hope I can get some help with these seemingly strange characters... I'm having trouble figuring out the level adjustment, stat adjustment, total HD and number of feats for these characters at level 1 Ok... here we go 1st - A half-dragon(crystal), half-aranea Wizard (True Neutral) 2nd - A half-dragon(silver), quarter minotaur, quarter sphinx Fighter (True Neutral) 3rd - A half-dragon(silver), half-celestial(Astral Deva) Cleric (Neutral Good) 4th - A half-dragon(green), half-human Barbarian (Chaotic Neutral) 5th - A half-celestial(Solar), half-elf Ranger (Chaotic Good) 6th - A half-nymph, half-air outsider(Djinni) Rogue (Chaotic Good) 7th - A half-vampire, half-human Sorcerer (Chaotic Neutral) I know that these aren't normal characters, but they aren't supposed to be. They are the legendary heroes of my unique campaign setting. I hope someone out there can help me with this wackyness.
SoldierOfFortune187 07-05-06, 05:35 AM	1st - A half-dragon(crystal), half-aranea Wizard (True Neutral) ECL 11 (3 aranea racial hit dice + 4 aranea level adjustment + 3 half-dragon level adjustment + 1 level of wizard), 3d10+1d4 hit points, 3 feats (1 bonus aranea feat), Str +8, +4 Dex, Con +6, Int +6, Wis +2, Cha +6 2nd - A half-dragon(silver), quarter minotaur, quarter sphinx Fighter (True Neutral) No clue. Don't have half-minotaur template. Specify sphinx type (or is this too a template?) 3rd - A half-dragon(silver), half-celestial(Astral Deva) Cleric (Neutral Good) ECL 23 (3 half-dragon level adjustment + 12 astral deva hit dice + 8 astral deva level adjustment + 1 level of cleric), 13d8 hit points, 5 feats, Str +12, Dex +2, Con +6, Int +4, Wis +4, Cha +6 4th - A half-dragon(green), half-human Barbarian (Chaotic Neutral) ECL 4 (3 half-dragon level adjustment + 1 level of barbarian), 1d12 hit points, 2 feats (1 human bonus feat), Str +8, Con +2, Int +2, Cha +2 5th - A half-celestial(Solar), half-elf Ranger (Chaotic Good) ECL 5 (4 half-celestial level adjustment *Solars do not have a level adjustment, and are not appropriate for player characters, changed to half-celestial* + 1 level of ranger), 1d8 hit points, 1 feat, Str +4, Dex +2, Con +4, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha +4 6th - A half-nymph, half-air outsider(Djinni) Rogue (Chaotic Good) ECL 17 (6 nymph racial hit dice + 7 nymph level adjustment + 3 half-elemental air level adjustment *half-air elemental* + 1 level rogue), 7d6 hit points, 3 feats, Dex +8, Con +4, Int +8, Wis +8, Cha +10 7th - A half-vampire, half-human Sorcerer (Chaotic Neutral) (Edit : compliments of Shaggy Shaggs) ECL 3 (2 half-vampire level adjustment + 1 level of sorcerer), 1d4 hit points, 3 feats (1 plus 1 human bonus plus Improved Initiative from half-vampire), Str +2, Dex +2, Cha +2
Shaggy_Shaggs 07-05-06, 05:49 AM	7th - A half-vampire, half-human Sorcerer (Chaotic Neutral) ECL 3 (2 half-vampire level adjustment + 1 level of sorcerer), 1d4 hit points, 3 feats (1 plus 1 human bonus plus Improved Initiative from half-vampire), Str +2, Dex +2, Cha +2
tharivol266 07-05-06, 09:55 AM	i hope that isnt supposed to be a party
Tytalus 07-06-06, 05:08 AM	If you are using a half-X template like half-dragon etc., it's better not to modify the base race name to avoid confusion. I.e., a human with a half-dragon template is a half-dragon human, not a half-dragon half-human. If you do it your way, you run into the problem of ambiguity: what is a half-dragon half-elf? An elf with the half-dragon template, or a half-elf with that template? It also sounds silly to use descriptors like "half-air (Djinni)". Also note that half-X templates are not literally meant to be "halves", but merely indicate a substantial influence. According to the rules, a half-dragon half-fiend half-elf is perfectly reasonable (if strange), but lends itself to the question whether all these "halves" shouldn't add up to more than one person.
LemantDarkfire 07-07-06, 02:01 AM	i hope that isnt supposed to be a party :rolleyes: of course its not a party, its the NPC's who have been giving quests to my players, who are all normal races i.e humans, gnomes, elves, dwarves i just want to make sure i have the builds for them since the PC's may (and most likely will) decide to challenge their quest givers when they get more powerful BTW, the dragon/minotaur/sphinx Fighter is Gynosphinx
Sulaco 07-07-06, 01:11 PM	:rolleyes: of course its not a party, its the NPC's who have been giving quests to my players, who are all normal races i.e humans, gnomes, elves, dwarves Wow. I guess lots of creature like to **** lots of different creatures in your world. OOC why is not a single one of them just a normal creature without being a half-this, quarter-that, templated-the-other concoction?
Millennium 07-07-06, 01:34 PM	Also note that half-X templates are not literally meant to be "halves", but merely indicate a substantial influence. Do you have something to cite there? I've always taken it to mean that except in certain specific cases, a half-something template literally meant a genetic halving: one parent was the something described by the template. If the blood was more dilute, then other templates existed for the weaker bloodline (half-celestial -> aasimar, half-fiend -> tiefling, half-dragon -> draconic, and so forth). According to the rules, a half-dragon half-fiend half-elf is perfectly reasonable (if strange), but lends itself to the question whether all these "halves" shouldn't add up to more than one person. Actually, the case of a "half-dragon half-fiend half-elf" is doable in a way that makes at least a little sense. Start with a creature whose mother is an elf and whose father is a fiend (or vice versa: either way, apply the half-fiend template to an elf). Give that character with ten levels in Dragon Disciple -presumably from some draconic blood in the mother's line- which grants the half-dragon template. There you go.
malignor 07-07-06, 03:58 PM	I have alot of half-fiends and half-dragons in my setting too. = 1/2 Fiends = Half-fiends are because of the evil nature of feinds - they'll rape anything to prove their dominance, and impregnating via that rape is even more cruel. Noble Elves (all demon worshippers) and Dwarves (all devil worshippers) also aspire to have immortal fiendish children (as heirs) and use bloodlines to strengthen pacts, so the rulers of their respective kingdoms have alot of half-fiends among them. = 1/2 Dragons = Half-dragons exist all around dragon's lairs. There is really only one true dragon of each MMI color in my setting: One Black, one Blue, one green, one red, one white, one brass, one bronze, one copper etc. Thus they have no mates, but mate with whatever creatures frequent the area of their lair. For example, Darkmire the Black Dragon breeds with crocs and giant crocs and local snakes & reptiles (affinity for reptiles). The presence of these half-dragons is like a warning that you are near the dragon's lair. Also, if the dragon is slain, one of the half-dragons (the oldest) grows and becomes the replacement true dragon within a year... Technically, dragons don't mate in the traditional sense. They all lay eggs (sexless). Those eggs often get taken by creatures or hidden in creature's lairs (I guess kinda like a big magic easter bunny). Whatever takes care of the egg decides the base creature. The opposite can also occur, where anything born, raised, concieved or hatched in a dragon's lair develops into a half-dragon of that type. Hence human-centric dragons steal virgins, children or pregnant mothers so they can keep them prisoner and ensure the children are theirs as well. Since dragons are sexless, it's not about sexuality, but about some paternal/maternal instict, and another social instinct that the dragon not feel "alone" in this world. Thus they gain satisfaction with making their home and territory into a region filled with "children". This ensures the dragon species as a side effect, since it's extremely difficult to hunt down and kill all half-dragons, plus kill the one true dragon. Aside from that, you don't want to kill the true dragon anyway, because the consequences happen on a global scale. Each dragon is a representation of some powerful natural force, and killing that dragon removes that force until the replacement develops. For example, the White Dragon is the North Polar Icecap, while the Silver Dragon is the South Polar Icecap. Killing either one will cause the icecap to melt, and flood most of the world. Killing both icecaps would completely immerse all land in water. Darkmire, The Black Dragon, represents the apetite of carrion creatures... killing the black dragon will choke the world with plagues, as no scavengers or decomposers will eat their fill of the dead and every corner of the planet will stink with rot. More unpleasant is that each dragon's lair is also the keystone that separates the prime from numerous other planar realms. Killing the dragon loosens the keystone. For example, Darkmire the Black is the guardian that keeps the River Styx at bay, as well as some acid-filled layers of the Abyss, and the Negative Material Plane. Thus after killing Darkmire, Gates will open in his lair and denizens from these realms enter this world freely until a new Black Dragon develops to fill the lair. I should also note that true dragons also mutate from the radiations of these planes, resulting in all evil dragons gaining the fiendish template and all good dragons the celestial template. Furthermore, since they are the advanced form of a half-dragon, they are also a half-dragon of their own type (so Darkmire is a fiendish half-dragon dragon). Lastly, they also usually gain preferred class levels as befitting their style (Darkmire is an evil Druid, Hellfrost is a Barbarian) and most are epic level great wyrms. In short, killing any one dragon, a near impossible task, would cause a global crisis, and killing any two at a time would end the world in less than a year.
CryoSilver 07-07-06, 06:06 PM	Wow. I guess lots of creature like to **** lots of different creatures in your world. OOC why is not a single one of them just a normal creature without being a half-this, quarter-that, templated-the-other concoction? Probably because he doesn't need help figuring out the EL of a normal human. :P
Sulaco 07-10-06, 10:20 AM	Probably because he doesn't need help figuring out the EL of a normal human. :P LOL! Good point. Still, half-creatures should be rarer than hen's-teeth. Unique creatures fraught with unique RP opportunities. That any one party is in regular contact with 7 of these hidge-podge beasts, and that they exists solely to send the PC out on fetch-quests, strains credibility well beyond the breaking point for me. What does it say to those playing plain old humans and elves and dwarves? It says to me that there is not much hope for them to ever become great heroes of the realm cos their ancestors didn't go around shtupping dragons.
Tytalus 07-10-06, 10:09 PM	Do you have something to cite there? Just the RAW. Look at any half-X template, and it says that it can be applied to "any ... creature". Even though most half-X templates change the type, the resulting creature is usually elligible for other half-X templates. I've always taken it to mean that except in certain specific cases, a half-something template literally meant a genetic halving: one parent was the something described by the template. If the blood was more dilute, then other templates existed for the weaker bloodline (half-celestial -> aasimar, half-fiend -> tiefling, half-dragon -> draconic, and so forth). Some of the flavour text of the half-X templates can be interpreted that way, of course. Yet this causes all sorts of problems, especially with the half-elf race. A whole race comprised of 1st generation human/elf offspring? Not very convincing. Note also that the flavour text does not explicitly specify that half-X's are first generation offspring only.
ChaoticGood 07-11-06, 12:29 AM	For the half-silver dragon mino-sphinx, I suggest you start with the Tauric template in the Monster Manual II, then apply the half-dragon template.
Sulaco 07-11-06, 09:23 AM	Just the RAW. Look at any half-X template, and it says that it can be applied to "any ... creature". Even though most half-X templates change the type, the resulting creature is usually elligible for other half-X templates. Some of the flavour text of the half-X templates can be interpreted that way, of course. Yet this causes all sorts of problems, especially with the half-elf race. A whole race comprised of 1st generation human/elf offspring? Not very convincing. Note also that the flavour text does not explicitly specify that half-X's are first generation offspring only. That is certainly an interesting interpretation. Half-elves are not a race. They do no breed-true with each other. They are all individudals who are the result of human/elf pairings. Yes the half-temapltes can be applied to any creature. That is a mechanic, not an in-game retrofit, that tells the player that they can make a half-dragon human, or elf, or dwarf, or troll, etc. That does not mean they can pick the template up later. You can chose to run it otherwise but you do so in conflict with the rules.
CryoSilver 07-11-06, 09:27 AM	Unless they're a dragon disciple.
rogue_lettuce 07-11-06, 10:07 AM	That does not mean they can pick the template up later. But it DOES mean you can apply mutlitple half-templates at character creation.
Sereno 07-11-06, 10:28 AM	Half-elves are not a race. They do no breed-true with each other. They are all individudals who are the result of human/elf pairings. Except in Eberron, where they are a true breeding race. You can still be a traditional half-elf (elf/human parents), but you've also got the option of being a "Khorovar" which means both of your parents are half-elves and you can also manifest one of the half-elf dragonmarks. In fact, the Khorovar get the "best" one; the Mark of Storm.
Sulaco 07-11-06, 10:55 AM	But it DOES mean you can apply mutlitple half-templates at character creation. Absurd as it it is, yes.
RoCkEtInToXiCaTe 07-11-06, 09:26 PM	I don't think that D&D was made from a biological standpoint. Because I don't see why humans can't mate with Halflings. I would. =). But yeah, I mean technically you could put all the half-templates, the lich template and maybe the vampire template all onto one creature, as far as I know. I don't think that is breaking any rules. You could easily be a half-vampire/fiend/dragon/celestial/lycanthrope/lich, as far as I know. I'm not entirely sure, what that would be the worst creature ever, but I'm just saying.
Tytalus 07-11-06, 09:40 PM	That is certainly an interesting interpretation. I'm just going by the rules here. Half-elves are not a race. LoL. Is that's why they are in the "Races" section of the PHB/SRD? They do no breed-true with each other. They are all individudals who are the result of human/elf pairings. Huh? Even the PHB mentions "second-generation" half-elves, and talks about half-elves who are "are the children of parents who themselves are partly human and partly elf". And that's not even Eberron. Yes the half-temapltes can be applied to any creature. According to the template's limitations, of course. That does not mean they can pick the template up later. You can chose to run it otherwise but you do so in conflict with the rules. Note that I did not claim that you can pick up templates at any point. I was merely talking about creating a new creature/PC. Also note that Savage Species does indeed offer rules for aquiring even hereditary templates at later point in game. And even the core rules allow that with the Dragon Disciple prestige class (which can conceivably modified to represent other half-X templates).