How do I get my DM to know the rules? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How do I get my DM to know the rules? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gamebird
01-12-06, 12:59 PM I'm playing in a tabletop game with a guy who has played D&D in various incarnations for about 25 years. He's a fairly smart guy and back in 2nd edition, he knew the rules backwards and forewards. Since 3.0 and 3.5 have come out, he hasn't actually read the rules. We've been playing 3.0 for about five years now (two campaigns) and he still hasn't figuring out things like Delay and Ready Action, or how many actions a person can take in a round (he'll have foes "Run" for a move x2, then cast a spell, saying they only ran for half a round and so should get half a round worth of running).

As we have gotten higher level in this last campaign, he's been getting really mad at being called on the rules. Last game ended early because he got angry about the initiative order, thought we were all trying to have a couple people get extra attacks in, and he just said the remaining enemy wizard wouldn't take damage from us no matter what.

He's discussing restarting the campaign at 1st level. That doesn't bother me so much except this is the same reason the last campaign ended and it's not hugely better when we're lower level. Sure, we have less options for him to find confusing, but the same problems crop up.

He's in my online game playing a bard and every single fricking game I have to remind him 1) using bard song takes a full action to start, 2) you can't cast Verbal component spells while singing, 3) you are limited to either a full round action plus 5' step, or a standard action plus move equivalent action, or two move equivalents per round - that's it! and most annoyingly, 4) YOU CAN ONLY ACT ON YOUR INITIATIVE (unless, of course, you delay, ready an action, or something like that).

Every single game. It's really the same sort of problems he shows in his tabletop game. It's really basic stuff that he just doesn't seem to get. Is there any way I can get him to know the rules? I had thought that having him play in a game and see things from the point of view of a player would help, but it doesn't. I still have to remind him how the rules work every single game. He tries to stack Bless and bard song and then chews the butt off the cleric every single game that the cleric won't cast Bless once bard song is up. The cleric has gotten to hate him, because it only took me telling the cleric once that morale bonuses don't stack and the cleric "got it". I've told this other guy time after time and he doesn't seem to remember. :mad:
Dead_Karma
01-12-06, 01:55 PM maybe he isn't trying to learn the rules due to being stuck in 2e. he might think that 2e is a better system, so is trying to make 3.x look bad. if he's been playing 3e for that long now though i doubt that there is much that you can do to get him understand the rules of 3rd. you could just try asking him why he has such a hard time with the rule set for the new d&d. my dm started with 3e so this might be different. she eliminated alot of things such as delaying actions and so on due to a lack of understanding, but once she got to understand things better she then allowed them back. the last thing that was brought back was incorporeal creatures. she really had a hard time with that one, she didn't think that either side could really hurt the other. just give him a chance, though maybe he will get it.
Juzzman
01-12-06, 03:59 PM I have a similar issue. Friend of mine has dm'ed since 1st edition, and has gone along with all the updates (Boy i whish we all had skipped 3.0) and now we are at 3.5. He has all the books, but just wont sit down and read them.

He is a really cluey guy, very smart, and if he just spent the time to read through the players and dmg, his life and ours would be so much simpler. But he refuses, stating that between work and preparing the campain he doesnt have time to read the rules, so he will learm by experiencing the rules first hand.

Now this in itself would be ok, but when it comes down to it and we are in a game and we point out how a rule should work, he quickly starts getting annoyed, and it is obvious that he doesnt like being corrected on the rules. Also, he insists on hybridising the rules to incorporate liberal amounts of house rules, which in subsequent games he cites and the real rules.

He's a good friend, and i have tried discussing it with him in a social environment, but he either takes it personally as a slight against his skills, doesn't get it or is just not prepared to fix it. But the bottom line is that if he wants to be taken seriously as a 3.5 dm he MUST read the rules.

I keep trying, in his games i try to just go with the flow and not keep attempting to advise him of the 3.5 rules, but it is difficult, so i play them less and less. I will probably end up not playing at all, and that will impact us socially, but i dont know what else to do. Sorry if i hijacked your thread :-(

Juzzman
Gamebird
01-12-06, 04:13 PM No, actually it's the same basic problem. With the exception that the DM I know has loads of free time and just chooses to do other things than read the rules.

He doesn't get carried away with hybridizing the rule sets, but he has tons of house rules that don't mesh very well. Also, he's allowed us to buy feats and extra stat points with xp and now he's upset at how unbalanced everything is. (Well duh!) That's largely from him not understanding how much feats drive the game... again from not fully understanding the rules. When he gets angry that our characters are too powerful or doing something he doesn't understand, then he "house rules" that the NPCs have X or Y power that makes them uber-powerful too. But the NPC power is not defined, isn't written down anywhere, and is essentially whatever he wants it to be. Our powers, even if unbalanced, at least have checks on them, if he'd bother to learn them.
Elbethamore
01-12-06, 04:35 PM Gamebird, you mentioned that your dm is a player in another campaign. Both of these DMs need more experience in that capacity.

Being a player is a much more user-friendly way to become familiar with the basics of combat, magic, and the like.

Suggest that someone else take a turn as DM (I wouldn't advise telling him it's so that he can learn the rules thoroughly).

Good luck, and good gaming.
Gamebird
01-12-06, 04:44 PM This is my noob moment... what does "gaymer" mean? Does it mean gay gamer? Which is cool with me, we've had a couple in our games and one of my friends is a gay IRS agent in KC (I know, IRS agent - ick, but still, he gives good tax advice)... but anyway, I was just wondering.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gamebird 01-12-06, 12:59 PM	I'm playing in a tabletop game with a guy who has played D&D in various incarnations for about 25 years. He's a fairly smart guy and back in 2nd edition, he knew the rules backwards and forewards. Since 3.0 and 3.5 have come out, he hasn't actually read the rules. We've been playing 3.0 for about five years now (two campaigns) and he still hasn't figuring out things like Delay and Ready Action, or how many actions a person can take in a round (he'll have foes "Run" for a move x2, then cast a spell, saying they only ran for half a round and so should get half a round worth of running). As we have gotten higher level in this last campaign, he's been getting really mad at being called on the rules. Last game ended early because he got angry about the initiative order, thought we were all trying to have a couple people get extra attacks in, and he just said the remaining enemy wizard wouldn't take damage from us no matter what. He's discussing restarting the campaign at 1st level. That doesn't bother me so much except this is the same reason the last campaign ended and it's not hugely better when we're lower level. Sure, we have less options for him to find confusing, but the same problems crop up. He's in my online game playing a bard and every single fricking game I have to remind him 1) using bard song takes a full action to start, 2) you can't cast Verbal component spells while singing, 3) you are limited to either a full round action plus 5' step, or a standard action plus move equivalent action, or two move equivalents per round - that's it! and most annoyingly, 4) YOU CAN ONLY ACT ON YOUR INITIATIVE (unless, of course, you delay, ready an action, or something like that). Every single game. It's really the same sort of problems he shows in his tabletop game. It's really basic stuff that he just doesn't seem to get. Is there any way I can get him to know the rules? I had thought that having him play in a game and see things from the point of view of a player would help, but it doesn't. I still have to remind him how the rules work every single game. He tries to stack Bless and bard song and then chews the butt off the cleric every single game that the cleric won't cast Bless once bard song is up. The cleric has gotten to hate him, because it only took me telling the cleric once that morale bonuses don't stack and the cleric "got it". I've told this other guy time after time and he doesn't seem to remember. :mad:
Dead_Karma 01-12-06, 01:55 PM	maybe he isn't trying to learn the rules due to being stuck in 2e. he might think that 2e is a better system, so is trying to make 3.x look bad. if he's been playing 3e for that long now though i doubt that there is much that you can do to get him understand the rules of 3rd. you could just try asking him why he has such a hard time with the rule set for the new d&d. my dm started with 3e so this might be different. she eliminated alot of things such as delaying actions and so on due to a lack of understanding, but once she got to understand things better she then allowed them back. the last thing that was brought back was incorporeal creatures. she really had a hard time with that one, she didn't think that either side could really hurt the other. just give him a chance, though maybe he will get it.
Juzzman 01-12-06, 03:59 PM	I have a similar issue. Friend of mine has dm'ed since 1st edition, and has gone along with all the updates (Boy i whish we all had skipped 3.0) and now we are at 3.5. He has all the books, but just wont sit down and read them. He is a really cluey guy, very smart, and if he just spent the time to read through the players and dmg, his life and ours would be so much simpler. But he refuses, stating that between work and preparing the campain he doesnt have time to read the rules, so he will learm by experiencing the rules first hand. Now this in itself would be ok, but when it comes down to it and we are in a game and we point out how a rule should work, he quickly starts getting annoyed, and it is obvious that he doesnt like being corrected on the rules. Also, he insists on hybridising the rules to incorporate liberal amounts of house rules, which in subsequent games he cites and the real rules. He's a good friend, and i have tried discussing it with him in a social environment, but he either takes it personally as a slight against his skills, doesn't get it or is just not prepared to fix it. But the bottom line is that if he wants to be taken seriously as a 3.5 dm he MUST read the rules. I keep trying, in his games i try to just go with the flow and not keep attempting to advise him of the 3.5 rules, but it is difficult, so i play them less and less. I will probably end up not playing at all, and that will impact us socially, but i dont know what else to do. Sorry if i hijacked your thread :-( Juzzman
Gamebird 01-12-06, 04:13 PM	No, actually it's the same basic problem. With the exception that the DM I know has loads of free time and just chooses to do other things than read the rules. He doesn't get carried away with hybridizing the rule sets, but he has tons of house rules that don't mesh very well. Also, he's allowed us to buy feats and extra stat points with xp and now he's upset at how unbalanced everything is. (Well duh!) That's largely from him not understanding how much feats drive the game... again from not fully understanding the rules. When he gets angry that our characters are too powerful or doing something he doesn't understand, then he "house rules" that the NPCs have X or Y power that makes them uber-powerful too. But the NPC power is not defined, isn't written down anywhere, and is essentially whatever he wants it to be. Our powers, even if unbalanced, at least have checks on them, if he'd bother to learn them.
Elbethamore 01-12-06, 04:35 PM	Gamebird, you mentioned that your dm is a player in another campaign. Both of these DMs need more experience in that capacity. Being a player is a much more user-friendly way to become familiar with the basics of combat, magic, and the like. Suggest that someone else take a turn as DM (I wouldn't advise telling him it's so that he can learn the rules thoroughly). Good luck, and good gaming.
Gamebird 01-12-06, 04:44 PM	This is my noob moment... what does "gaymer" mean? Does it mean gay gamer? Which is cool with me, we've had a couple in our games and one of my friends is a gay IRS agent in KC (I know, IRS agent - ick, but still, he gives good tax advice)... but anyway, I was just wondering.