How do I remove all arcane spell failure on Full Plate? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How do I remove all arcane spell failure on Full Plate? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
pokemaniacbill
07-02-07, 06:03 AM How, exactly, can I do this without having to take levels in anything, or lose AC?

Yeah, I know, difficult question. I've scoured the list of playable books, and here's what I've come up with: (Barring Blended Quartz, which I'd prefer to avoid purely for aesthetic reasons)

Feycraft (-5%)
Mithral (-10%)
Masterwork arcane armor (From Goods and Gear: Ultimate Adventurer's Guide, -5%)

I'm all for enchantments, but I can't find any. I heard something about Twilight, but I can't seem to find it. The only thing I could find that reduces Arcane Spell Failure inherently was Celestial Chainmail (Chainmail with 30%, Mithral reducing by 10%, and Celestial Chainmail has an ASF of only 15%), and truth be told I'm doing horribly at reverse engineering that price.

On a totally unrelated note, this forum is infinitely better then others I've been to.
Radijs
07-02-07, 06:40 AM There's also the Twilight ability (BoED) which removes another 10%. Its a +1 enhancement.
pokemaniacbill
07-02-07, 07:00 AM That's so weird. I checked there before I posted, and I guess I checked in the wrong location. I checked under Equipment, not magic. Guess that's why I couldn't find it even though I had it.

Hmmmm. That's kinda disappointing, the aesthetics... I want it to look, I guess, bright and shiny and imposing without looking explicitly magical. I plan to cast Nystul's Undetectable Aura on it, but I'm curious if there's simply something I can do which supresses this visual effect. Forgive me for this aside.
Radijs
07-02-07, 07:19 AM Cover it up with something? A cloth with your coat of arms on it.
deduke
07-02-07, 07:26 AM Hmmmm. That's kinda disappointing, the aesthetics... I want it to look, I guess, bright and shiny and imposing without looking explicitly magical. I plan to cast Nystul's Undetectable Aura on it, but I'm curious if there's simply something I can do which supresses this visual effect. Forgive me for this aside.

You can always add the glamered special ability from the dmg as well, that will make it look like normal clothing so you wont have the visual properties of twilight. Twilight was reprinted in the Magic item Compendium btw.
Radijs
07-02-07, 07:27 AM It was? Did it get cheaper?
pokemaniacbill
07-02-07, 07:37 AM Well, my logic in keeping the armor visible is several things. A guy in a full plate suit running towards you with his big sword is significantly more intimidating then a guy running at you in his clothes with his big sword. A guy you can't see is probably more intimidating. And a guy who radiates no magic in his tin suit and appears to be taking a LOT of magic with very little effect is equally disconcerting. In this case, vain as it sounds, I'm going for image.

I'm just not familiar with illusion spells, I'm afraid, least of all creating armor specific effects (Which honestly I know I should be better at, so I'm sorry). My apologies on this one. I'm afraid I don't even have a DM to consult with on this one.
kelvinaw273
07-02-07, 08:07 AM Remember that Mithril also reduces the class of the armour by one, so your mithral plate becomes medium armour, not heavy armour. This makes it usable by Warmages, for example.

But I would ask ... why do you need full plate for an arcane caster? It seems kind of counter to the flavour of the character class, and having a low AC is one of the compensating disadvantages of an arcane caster that stops them being OTT powerful (which they are anyay, as they can buff their AC sky-high if they want to).
pokemaniacbill
07-02-07, 08:32 AM Well, I was practicing my stat generating rolls (Yes, I am a superstitious player) when on my fifth rundown (Quite literally, this happened by change), I recieved the following stats on a 4d6 drop the lowest.

15 +2
17 +3
17 +3
16 +3
15 +2
16 +3

Now, on the grounds that this was a fluke-a-riffic roll and due to the fact that I have no ability to game with a group right now, I decided I'd just have fun and make a character who literally is so strong he's scarily, unexplainably strong without being a big fat piece of cheese with a 100+ strength or something an 80 foot long sword like a Barbarian I did. And he was NEVER EVER EVER meant to see the light of day, so get off me. =P

Naturally, I went Gestalt. I decided to give him a Mercurial Greatsword (On the grounds that those weapons are still REALLY strong, even updated from Sword and Fist). Full Plate's the most imposing looking armor I know of, so I went with that.

Having magic has never hurt me once. So I figured that he'd be a spellcaster as well, to some degree for buffs and the like. Full Plate + Spells = Fizzle, which struck me as something quite bad. So I came here when I had no idea what else to do.

This guy's not intended for play, if I went with this character concept he'd be straight swordmonkey and I might actually make another build showing him as such.

So yeah. That's why I'm asking. And it goes away from the traditional archetype of Sorceror and Wizard, but from a practical sense can you honestly say that it makes more sense to have less armor versus more armor if given the opportunity?

Edit: Allright, another totally unrelated question because I appear to be completely out of the loop on this one. What happened to Nystul's Undetectable Aura in 3.5?
Empirate
07-02-07, 08:49 AM Grab a single level of Spellsword and watch your ASFC drop another 10%. To sum it all up: Mithral, Twilight enchantment, Feycraft, one level Spellsword = -35%. Sounds like Full Plate to me... Don't forget to grab a similarly enchanted/mithral/Feycraft Large Shield, btw. Or a simple mithral buckler with more enchantments of a useful kind.
pokemaniacbill
07-02-07, 08:54 AM How, exactly, can I do this without having to take levels in anything, or lose AC?

That's the rub, I'm afraid. I know Spellsword IS a class that can do that, but I think it's invalid on the grounds that it's supposed to blend Fighters and Wizard/Sorcerors. Which makes it invalid according to Gestalt. It makes sense to pick it but it doesn't work with Gestalt.
Dherki
07-02-07, 09:34 AM If you can find a way to somehow obtain the ability to cast spells in light armor without failure chance (several classes have this ability, not sure if you can obtain this with a feat) then Battle Caster (CArc) would allow you to case spells in medium armor. Then all you need is a Mithral Full Plate (medium armor, due to mithral).
OravennasBrother
07-02-07, 12:08 PM How, exactly, can I do this without having to take levels in anything, or lose AC?
You need the spell - Damage and sometimes Kill enemies. Range - Varies with Focus. Damage - Varies with Focus and Lots of other things. Arcane Focus - One Weapon. Somatic Component - swing, thrust of otherwise apply said weapon to target anatomy (exception see rules for opponents with no discernible anatomy)
Otherwise, stick to spells with no Somatic Component.
:P
pokemaniacbill
07-02-07, 01:13 PM *grins* I'm all for stabbing, but there's something to be said for shiny stabbings.

That last five percent... guess there's only one way. I'm going to have to ask a better man then I to help me with some math.

Celestial Armor. Chainmail has +5 AC, +2 Max Dex, -5 Armor Check Penalty, Arcane Spell Failure 30%, and weighs 40 pounds. Celestial Armor (Which is enchanted chainmail, of course) has the same AC bonus but a +8(!) Max Dex Bonus, 15% ASF, and weighs 20 pounds. It is notably not made from Mithral.

Stripping away what I DO know, I can take away 9,300gp from the cost(Masterwork Chainmail and +3 enchantment) of 22,400gp, for a total of 13,100gp to cover an additional +6 Max Dex, -15% ASF and Fly once per day.

Fly is 5,400 gold by the book... (Caster Level x Spell Level x 1,800 / 5 = 5,400) for a total of 7,700gp left over for half weight, +6 Max Dex, moving the armor down a size class, and -15% ASF.

Well, I had this great thing worked out where Max Dex was 550gp per point and the ASF was 1,500 per 5% by taking Twilight (-10% for +1 multiplied by 1.5 for not being an enchantment) and realized I completely forgot about the armor size class and weight.

Yurgh. Sometimes I wish Wizards would just release their formulas. Anybody with a better brain then mine have a good idea?
RadicalTaoist
07-02-07, 01:26 PM Githcraft (DMG 2) is better than Feycraft.

That said, are you spending the feats to be proficient with heavy armor anyways (you'd still need proficiency in heavy armor to wear this even though it is treated as medium)? Seems a waste; an arcane caster has better ways to *not be hit at all* than armor.
Amon_WinterfallIV
07-02-07, 01:30 PM Maybe you could talk to your DM and trade a Feat for "Ignore %10 Arcane Spell Failure". Custom Feats are cool.

I think Twlight Mithral Breastplate (Feycraft and Arcane Armor) is about the best you can do. Don't forget that this is light armor, and that can really help you out in getting around.

Frankly, the best Gishs are Psion/Fighter, as Psionics has no Arcane Spell Failure.
Toloran
07-02-07, 02:36 PM Githcraft (DMG 2) is better than Feycraft.

That said, are you spending the feats to be proficient with heavy armor anyways (you'd still need proficiency in heavy armor to wear this even though it is treated as medium)? Seems a waste; an arcane caster has better ways to *not be hit at all* than armor.

You do not need proficiency to wear armor (just need it to wear it without penalty). If you don't have the proficiency then you get the armors ACP as a penalty to your attack rolls and any skill check that requires moving (including ride). It doesn't affect the AC bonus from the armor or the max dex bonus.

Also, if you are wearing mithril heavy armor, it is treated as medium armor for proficiency purposes.

Lastly: while I agree with you in general, Not everyones spellcaster falls in to the same mold. In addition, I can definitely see why a spellcaster would like to have some sort of actual armor to protect themselves with.
pokemaniacbill
07-02-07, 09:18 PM There are some people who haven't read the whole topic and are giving suggestions so I think I have to restate a few things.

This is a Gestalt character. He is a fighter and caster.

I am not taking a level in any of the classes which reduce ASF (Battle Sorceror, Spellsword, Warmage).

I have no access to a DM. At all.

I KNOW that there is a set cost for reducing ASF in Celestial Chainmail which does not cost an enchantment slot, but I have no idea what it is. If I knew that, I could simply take a 20% reduction enchantment, make it Mithral, and use the 5% Masterwork bonus to reduce all failure and make it a light Full Plate.

I have all the relevant feats to use the armor.

I'm going to alter my question now and again, apologize profusely for not being clearer due to my own befuddlement. I see a solution and I'm simply not clever enough to figure it out... What are the broken down costs for Celestial Armor's components (In the DMG, specific armors)?

Total Cost is 22,400gp

Subtracting what I do know:

Enchantment is 9,000gp
Chainmail is 150gp
Masterwork armor is 150gp
Fly 1/day with a command word at CL5 is 5,400gp (RAW, but I'm not used to doing this so feel free to tell me off for bad math)

That leaves me with 7,700GP and the following enchantments.

The Max Dex is increased from 2 to 8.
It is half the weight of chainmail.
It reduces ASF by 15%.
It reduces it from Medium to Light armor.
Can fit comfortably under clothes without bulging.

The closest effects to this in any enchanted item I've ever seen are simple: Mithral. Mithral costs 4,000gp for Medium armor and gives the following similar effects.

Max Dex is increased by 2.
Half the items regular weight.
-10% ASF.
Reduces from Heavy to Medium, or Medium to Light.

It also gives the following effect that's NOT similar.

AC Check Penalty -3

Which basically leaves the following things unaccounted for, with the following gold unassigned to enchantment: 3,700gp.

Max Dex increase of 4.
-5% ASF
Fitting comfortably under clothes.

Question stands. How do you break down Celestial Armor's individual enchantments/effects? That's exactly how far I got before I realized I don't have any good comparison I know how to use.

I apologize for my stubbornness, thickness, and lack of clarity, and want to thank everybody helping out. And, uh, sorry for the length of the post.
pokemaniacbill
07-02-07, 09:59 PM *slaps my forehead* I just realized I haven't been here so long there's a CO board. This is the wrong forum for this, isn't it?
forsaken1111
07-03-07, 11:37 AM *slaps my forehead* I just realized I haven't been here so long there's a CO board. This is the wrong forum for this, isn't it?

Yes. :)
JasonOrlandoHawk
07-03-07, 12:06 PM Question: Where is this "Feycraft" you speak of? I have never seen such a thing...
Elemental
07-03-07, 01:01 PM Here's a much simpler way: The Halfweight quality from Underdark. The armour counts as light armour, simply enough.
Far_Traveler
07-03-07, 01:20 PM Well, it may be light, but it doesn't reduce arcane spell failure. it's a godsend if your a bard, but still...
Valthonis
07-03-07, 01:49 PM [QUOTE=kelvinaw273;12933172]Remember that Mithril also reduces the class of the armour by one, so your mithral plate becomes medium armour, not heavy armour. This makes it usable by Warmages, for example.[QUOTE]

Not true unfortunatly. Mithral only reduces the armor class for movement purposes. It doesn't affect what feat you need to be able to equip it properly.
Deekin
07-03-07, 01:54 PM You Could always use divine magic, psionics, truenaming, stilled shatdowmagic, Bindings, or Duskblade.
Jackmojo
07-03-07, 02:04 PM For a gestalt Fighter//Mage, the best choice might be the Alternate fighter feature from Complete Mage, lets you ignore arcane spell failure for spells of less then your fighter level (so fighter 9 can cast any spell of 9th level or lower with no arcane spell failure). I can't recall if this is in all armour or only light armour, and you need to trade your medium and heavy armour proficeincy for it, but it would be easy to get that back with fighter feats if you really wanted it.

if you weren't opposed to Prestige classes the easy answer (if you're a dwarf) is always runesmith (automatically stills all spells for free, so no arcane failure).

Jack
RadicalTaoist
07-03-07, 09:32 PM You do not need proficiency to wear armor (just need it to wear it without penalty). If you don't have the proficiency then you get the armors ACP as a penalty to your attack rolls and any skill check that requires moving (including ride). It doesn't affect the AC bonus from the armor or the max dex bonus.

Also, if you are wearing mithril heavy armor, it is treated as medium armor for proficiency purposes.

Not true unfortunatly. Mithral only reduces the armor class for movement purposes. It doesn't affect what feat you need to be able to equip it properly.
Precisely. "Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#mithral) You *could* read proficiency restrictions as a 'limitation' but I think that's reaching. I also wouldn't want that nasty ACP affecting my touch attacks.
*slaps my forehead* I just realized I haven't been here so long there's a CO board. This is the wrong forum for this, isn't it?
Yes. :)
Thanks. We need the press.
You Could always use divine magic, psionics, truenaming, stilled shatdowmagic, Bindings, or Duskblade.
Alternative casting systems and classes are certainly viable, but you should watch out - what does he want to be a mage for in the first place? Take the Duskblade or Warmage, for example; if you want DAMAGE and virtually nothing else but DAMAGE then that's a pretty solid choice, but utility and manipulation spells are out. A Beguiler with Battle Caster (allowing them to cast in medium armor without failure) and the proficiency feats could be a better armored versatile caster. What the OP wants to do with his character is key.
pokemaniacbill
07-05-07, 01:51 AM Feycraft is from the DMGII. By having a Fey make the armor and paying an additional cost, you get a -5% ASF.

Well, the reason I want to be a Wizard is simple. Magic, while fun for blowing things up, is ultimately limited and not very scary. This is the logic that went in to my character's head as he fought and grew stronger: Magic is impressive, but not SCARY. And people who are scared tend to do stupid things.

So, instead of being a regular 'I can cast spells in armor' type, throwing fireballs and whatnot, he went for a different approach. He wields a Mercurial Greatsword, covers his face with his helmet, and just keeps coming. His equipment is enchanted to radiate no magic (Barring things like potions and the like). It LOOKS like it's incredibly well crafted, but it doesn't show any visible magics. Use Nondetection on himself to complete the illusion. By giving him Somatic Casting, I think I can pretend that these spell actions (Blasty or utility, so long) are just weapon performances or displays or martial prowess like a Monk or Swordsage. The reason I'd do this most is because of war scenarios. The presence of a legend on the battlefield can be better than a horde of troops.

By the way, I ended up using Spellsword. I just couldn't figure out a better way, and it's not really like Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster. Only up to 5, though.

Now the prestige class to pick for magic, that's the rub...

I'm sorry I put this on the wrong forum. I really am. I'm sorry.
sleepydeath
07-05-07, 04:03 AM I think the battle sorcerer can cast in armor, take battle caster feat and your are good :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pokemaniacbill 07-02-07, 06:03 AM	How, exactly, can I do this without having to take levels in anything, or lose AC? Yeah, I know, difficult question. I've scoured the list of playable books, and here's what I've come up with: (Barring Blended Quartz, which I'd prefer to avoid purely for aesthetic reasons) Feycraft (-5%) Mithral (-10%) Masterwork arcane armor (From Goods and Gear: Ultimate Adventurer's Guide, -5%) I'm all for enchantments, but I can't find any. I heard something about Twilight, but I can't seem to find it. The only thing I could find that reduces Arcane Spell Failure inherently was Celestial Chainmail (Chainmail with 30%, Mithral reducing by 10%, and Celestial Chainmail has an ASF of only 15%), and truth be told I'm doing horribly at reverse engineering that price. On a totally unrelated note, this forum is infinitely better then others I've been to.
Radijs 07-02-07, 06:40 AM	There's also the Twilight ability (BoED) which removes another 10%. Its a +1 enhancement.
pokemaniacbill 07-02-07, 07:00 AM	That's so weird. I checked there before I posted, and I guess I checked in the wrong location. I checked under Equipment, not magic. Guess that's why I couldn't find it even though I had it. Hmmmm. That's kinda disappointing, the aesthetics... I want it to look, I guess, bright and shiny and imposing without looking explicitly magical. I plan to cast Nystul's Undetectable Aura on it, but I'm curious if there's simply something I can do which supresses this visual effect. Forgive me for this aside.
Radijs 07-02-07, 07:19 AM	Cover it up with something? A cloth with your coat of arms on it.
deduke 07-02-07, 07:26 AM	Hmmmm. That's kinda disappointing, the aesthetics... I want it to look, I guess, bright and shiny and imposing without looking explicitly magical. I plan to cast Nystul's Undetectable Aura on it, but I'm curious if there's simply something I can do which supresses this visual effect. Forgive me for this aside. You can always add the glamered special ability from the dmg as well, that will make it look like normal clothing so you wont have the visual properties of twilight. Twilight was reprinted in the Magic item Compendium btw.
Radijs 07-02-07, 07:27 AM	It was? Did it get cheaper?
pokemaniacbill 07-02-07, 07:37 AM	Well, my logic in keeping the armor visible is several things. A guy in a full plate suit running towards you with his big sword is significantly more intimidating then a guy running at you in his clothes with his big sword. A guy you can't see is probably more intimidating. And a guy who radiates no magic in his tin suit and appears to be taking a LOT of magic with very little effect is equally disconcerting. In this case, vain as it sounds, I'm going for image. I'm just not familiar with illusion spells, I'm afraid, least of all creating armor specific effects (Which honestly I know I should be better at, so I'm sorry). My apologies on this one. I'm afraid I don't even have a DM to consult with on this one.
kelvinaw273 07-02-07, 08:07 AM	Remember that Mithril also reduces the class of the armour by one, so your mithral plate becomes medium armour, not heavy armour. This makes it usable by Warmages, for example. But I would ask ... why do you need full plate for an arcane caster? It seems kind of counter to the flavour of the character class, and having a low AC is one of the compensating disadvantages of an arcane caster that stops them being OTT powerful (which they are anyay, as they can buff their AC sky-high if they want to).
pokemaniacbill 07-02-07, 08:32 AM	Well, I was practicing my stat generating rolls (Yes, I am a superstitious player) when on my fifth rundown (Quite literally, this happened by change), I recieved the following stats on a 4d6 drop the lowest. 15 +2 17 +3 17 +3 16 +3 15 +2 16 +3 Now, on the grounds that this was a fluke-a-riffic roll and due to the fact that I have no ability to game with a group right now, I decided I'd just have fun and make a character who literally is so strong he's scarily, unexplainably strong without being a big fat piece of cheese with a 100+ strength or something an 80 foot long sword like a Barbarian I did. And he was NEVER EVER EVER meant to see the light of day, so get off me. =P Naturally, I went Gestalt. I decided to give him a Mercurial Greatsword (On the grounds that those weapons are still REALLY strong, even updated from Sword and Fist). Full Plate's the most imposing looking armor I know of, so I went with that. Having magic has never hurt me once. So I figured that he'd be a spellcaster as well, to some degree for buffs and the like. Full Plate + Spells = Fizzle, which struck me as something quite bad. So I came here when I had no idea what else to do. This guy's not intended for play, if I went with this character concept he'd be straight swordmonkey and I might actually make another build showing him as such. So yeah. That's why I'm asking. And it goes away from the traditional archetype of Sorceror and Wizard, but from a practical sense can you honestly say that it makes more sense to have less armor versus more armor if given the opportunity? Edit: Allright, another totally unrelated question because I appear to be completely out of the loop on this one. What happened to Nystul's Undetectable Aura in 3.5?
Empirate 07-02-07, 08:49 AM	Grab a single level of Spellsword and watch your ASFC drop another 10%. To sum it all up: Mithral, Twilight enchantment, Feycraft, one level Spellsword = -35%. Sounds like Full Plate to me... Don't forget to grab a similarly enchanted/mithral/Feycraft Large Shield, btw. Or a simple mithral buckler with more enchantments of a useful kind.
pokemaniacbill 07-02-07, 08:54 AM	How, exactly, can I do this without having to take levels in anything, or lose AC? That's the rub, I'm afraid. I know Spellsword IS a class that can do that, but I think it's invalid on the grounds that it's supposed to blend Fighters and Wizard/Sorcerors. Which makes it invalid according to Gestalt. It makes sense to pick it but it doesn't work with Gestalt.
Dherki 07-02-07, 09:34 AM	If you can find a way to somehow obtain the ability to cast spells in light armor without failure chance (several classes have this ability, not sure if you can obtain this with a feat) then Battle Caster (CArc) would allow you to case spells in medium armor. Then all you need is a Mithral Full Plate (medium armor, due to mithral).
OravennasBrother 07-02-07, 12:08 PM	How, exactly, can I do this without having to take levels in anything, or lose AC? You need the spell - Damage and sometimes Kill enemies. Range - Varies with Focus. Damage - Varies with Focus and Lots of other things. Arcane Focus - One Weapon. Somatic Component - swing, thrust of otherwise apply said weapon to target anatomy (exception see rules for opponents with no discernible anatomy) Otherwise, stick to spells with no Somatic Component. :P
pokemaniacbill 07-02-07, 01:13 PM	grins I'm all for stabbing, but there's something to be said for shiny stabbings. That last five percent... guess there's only one way. I'm going to have to ask a better man then I to help me with some math. Celestial Armor. Chainmail has +5 AC, +2 Max Dex, -5 Armor Check Penalty, Arcane Spell Failure 30%, and weighs 40 pounds. Celestial Armor (Which is enchanted chainmail, of course) has the same AC bonus but a +8(!) Max Dex Bonus, 15% ASF, and weighs 20 pounds. It is notably not made from Mithral. Stripping away what I DO know, I can take away 9,300gp from the cost(Masterwork Chainmail and +3 enchantment) of 22,400gp, for a total of 13,100gp to cover an additional +6 Max Dex, -15% ASF and Fly once per day. Fly is 5,400 gold by the book... (Caster Level x Spell Level x 1,800 / 5 = 5,400) for a total of 7,700gp left over for half weight, +6 Max Dex, moving the armor down a size class, and -15% ASF. Well, I had this great thing worked out where Max Dex was 550gp per point and the ASF was 1,500 per 5% by taking Twilight (-10% for +1 multiplied by 1.5 for not being an enchantment) and realized I completely forgot about the armor size class and weight. Yurgh. Sometimes I wish Wizards would just release their formulas. Anybody with a better brain then mine have a good idea?
RadicalTaoist 07-02-07, 01:26 PM	Githcraft (DMG 2) is better than Feycraft. That said, are you spending the feats to be proficient with heavy armor anyways (you'd still need proficiency in heavy armor to wear this even though it is treated as medium)? Seems a waste; an arcane caster has better ways to not be hit at all than armor.
Amon_WinterfallIV 07-02-07, 01:30 PM	Maybe you could talk to your DM and trade a Feat for "Ignore %10 Arcane Spell Failure". Custom Feats are cool. I think Twlight Mithral Breastplate (Feycraft and Arcane Armor) is about the best you can do. Don't forget that this is light armor, and that can really help you out in getting around. Frankly, the best Gishs are Psion/Fighter, as Psionics has no Arcane Spell Failure.
Toloran 07-02-07, 02:36 PM	Githcraft (DMG 2) is better than Feycraft. That said, are you spending the feats to be proficient with heavy armor anyways (you'd still need proficiency in heavy armor to wear this even though it is treated as medium)? Seems a waste; an arcane caster has better ways to not be hit at all than armor. You do not need proficiency to wear armor (just need it to wear it without penalty). If you don't have the proficiency then you get the armors ACP as a penalty to your attack rolls and any skill check that requires moving (including ride). It doesn't affect the AC bonus from the armor or the max dex bonus. Also, if you are wearing mithril heavy armor, it is treated as medium armor for proficiency purposes. Lastly: while I agree with you in general, Not everyones spellcaster falls in to the same mold. In addition, I can definitely see why a spellcaster would like to have some sort of actual armor to protect themselves with.
pokemaniacbill 07-02-07, 09:18 PM	There are some people who haven't read the whole topic and are giving suggestions so I think I have to restate a few things. This is a Gestalt character. He is a fighter and caster. I am not taking a level in any of the classes which reduce ASF (Battle Sorceror, Spellsword, Warmage). I have no access to a DM. At all. I KNOW that there is a set cost for reducing ASF in Celestial Chainmail which does not cost an enchantment slot, but I have no idea what it is. If I knew that, I could simply take a 20% reduction enchantment, make it Mithral, and use the 5% Masterwork bonus to reduce all failure and make it a light Full Plate. I have all the relevant feats to use the armor. I'm going to alter my question now and again, apologize profusely for not being clearer due to my own befuddlement. I see a solution and I'm simply not clever enough to figure it out... What are the broken down costs for Celestial Armor's components (In the DMG, specific armors)? Total Cost is 22,400gp Subtracting what I do know: Enchantment is 9,000gp Chainmail is 150gp Masterwork armor is 150gp Fly 1/day with a command word at CL5 is 5,400gp (RAW, but I'm not used to doing this so feel free to tell me off for bad math) That leaves me with 7,700GP and the following enchantments. The Max Dex is increased from 2 to 8. It is half the weight of chainmail. It reduces ASF by 15%. It reduces it from Medium to Light armor. Can fit comfortably under clothes without bulging. The closest effects to this in any enchanted item I've ever seen are simple: Mithral. Mithral costs 4,000gp for Medium armor and gives the following similar effects. Max Dex is increased by 2. Half the items regular weight. -10% ASF. Reduces from Heavy to Medium, or Medium to Light. It also gives the following effect that's NOT similar. AC Check Penalty -3 Which basically leaves the following things unaccounted for, with the following gold unassigned to enchantment: 3,700gp. Max Dex increase of 4. -5% ASF Fitting comfortably under clothes. Question stands. How do you break down Celestial Armor's individual enchantments/effects? That's exactly how far I got before I realized I don't have any good comparison I know how to use. I apologize for my stubbornness, thickness, and lack of clarity, and want to thank everybody helping out. And, uh, sorry for the length of the post.
pokemaniacbill 07-02-07, 09:59 PM	slaps my forehead I just realized I haven't been here so long there's a CO board. This is the wrong forum for this, isn't it?
forsaken1111 07-03-07, 11:37 AM	slaps my forehead I just realized I haven't been here so long there's a CO board. This is the wrong forum for this, isn't it? Yes. :)
JasonOrlandoHawk 07-03-07, 12:06 PM	Question: Where is this "Feycraft" you speak of? I have never seen such a thing...
Elemental 07-03-07, 01:01 PM	Here's a much simpler way: The Halfweight quality from Underdark. The armour counts as light armour, simply enough.
Far_Traveler 07-03-07, 01:20 PM	Well, it may be light, but it doesn't reduce arcane spell failure. it's a godsend if your a bard, but still...
Valthonis 07-03-07, 01:49 PM	[QUOTE=kelvinaw273;12933172]Remember that Mithril also reduces the class of the armour by one, so your mithral plate becomes medium armour, not heavy armour. This makes it usable by Warmages, for example.[QUOTE] Not true unfortunatly. Mithral only reduces the armor class for movement purposes. It doesn't affect what feat you need to be able to equip it properly.
Deekin 07-03-07, 01:54 PM	You Could always use divine magic, psionics, truenaming, stilled shatdowmagic, Bindings, or Duskblade.
Jackmojo 07-03-07, 02:04 PM	For a gestalt Fighter//Mage, the best choice might be the Alternate fighter feature from Complete Mage, lets you ignore arcane spell failure for spells of less then your fighter level (so fighter 9 can cast any spell of 9th level or lower with no arcane spell failure). I can't recall if this is in all armour or only light armour, and you need to trade your medium and heavy armour proficeincy for it, but it would be easy to get that back with fighter feats if you really wanted it. if you weren't opposed to Prestige classes the easy answer (if you're a dwarf) is always runesmith (automatically stills all spells for free, so no arcane failure). Jack
RadicalTaoist 07-03-07, 09:32 PM	You do not need proficiency to wear armor (just need it to wear it without penalty). If you don't have the proficiency then you get the armors ACP as a penalty to your attack rolls and any skill check that requires moving (including ride). It doesn't affect the AC bonus from the armor or the max dex bonus. Also, if you are wearing mithril heavy armor, it is treated as medium armor for proficiency purposes. Not true unfortunatly. Mithral only reduces the armor class for movement purposes. It doesn't affect what feat you need to be able to equip it properly. Precisely. "Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#mithral) You could read proficiency restrictions as a 'limitation' but I think that's reaching. I also wouldn't want that nasty ACP affecting my touch attacks. slaps my forehead I just realized I haven't been here so long there's a CO board. This is the wrong forum for this, isn't it? Yes. :) Thanks. We need the press. You Could always use divine magic, psionics, truenaming, stilled shatdowmagic, Bindings, or Duskblade. Alternative casting systems and classes are certainly viable, but you should watch out - what does he want to be a mage for in the first place? Take the Duskblade or Warmage, for example; if you want DAMAGE and virtually nothing else but DAMAGE then that's a pretty solid choice, but utility and manipulation spells are out. A Beguiler with Battle Caster (allowing them to cast in medium armor without failure) and the proficiency feats could be a better armored versatile caster. What the OP wants to do with his character is key.
pokemaniacbill 07-05-07, 01:51 AM	Feycraft is from the DMGII. By having a Fey make the armor and paying an additional cost, you get a -5% ASF. Well, the reason I want to be a Wizard is simple. Magic, while fun for blowing things up, is ultimately limited and not very scary. This is the logic that went in to my character's head as he fought and grew stronger: Magic is impressive, but not SCARY. And people who are scared tend to do stupid things. So, instead of being a regular 'I can cast spells in armor' type, throwing fireballs and whatnot, he went for a different approach. He wields a Mercurial Greatsword, covers his face with his helmet, and just keeps coming. His equipment is enchanted to radiate no magic (Barring things like potions and the like). It LOOKS like it's incredibly well crafted, but it doesn't show any visible magics. Use Nondetection on himself to complete the illusion. By giving him Somatic Casting, I think I can pretend that these spell actions (Blasty or utility, so long) are just weapon performances or displays or martial prowess like a Monk or Swordsage. The reason I'd do this most is because of war scenarios. The presence of a legend on the battlefield can be better than a horde of troops. By the way, I ended up using Spellsword. I just couldn't figure out a better way, and it's not really like Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster. Only up to 5, though. Now the prestige class to pick for magic, that's the rub... I'm sorry I put this on the wrong forum. I really am. I'm sorry.
sleepydeath 07-05-07, 04:03 AM	I think the battle sorcerer can cast in armor, take battle caster feat and your are good :)