Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ToxicWiz 04-17-05, 07:57 AM	i have a major problem. me and two friends get along in and out of game, but then we have the DM (although the problem is the same when they are a player). they have one answer to everything, "i'm the dm" and drops dragons on our head, or assaulting our characters with legions of foes too hard for the group if the choatic evil character doesn't act like a paladin, or we didn't take such and such route instead of the way she wanted us. she seems to see every attack against the character she plays as an attack against her , and she likes to pay it back twice as hard when she dms. now comes the icing on the cake, she is my sister, so i get the whole let me do this or i'll throw a tantrum/cry/sceam so we can't play. so now the question, how do i deal with this vengeful dm and oversensitive player? not letting them play isn't an option (sadly). what do i do?
Sir Todd 04-17-05, 08:21 AM	This one is easy: Don't let her GM or simply don't play in her game when she does. Let her know exactly why if she asks. Just because she is your sister is not a good reason to take abusive behavior. On the other hand if you wish to keep playing then adjust your style accordingly. It seems she lashes out against 'uncooperative' characters. So stop making problem PCs. Throw your CE character away and try playing a good one. Try finding reasons to actually go where she wants you to go rather than fighting her at every step. She is probably just inexperienced and only prepared for a specific direction in the campaign. So go that way and have fun!
Asciiman 04-17-05, 10:41 AM	I'm with Sir Todd on this one. Don't let her DM or learn to play with her. Sounds to me like you are just as much a problem as her.
Fargren 04-17-05, 11:20 AM	In my experience, the only way to deal with a bad DM is leaving hin/her. They don't get better from critisicing(is that the word?)them.
Draco Strang 04-17-05, 12:32 PM	Well, it is possible to work with a DM and make him/her better. I've done it in the past once or twice. However, usually they don't want to listen, and the only thing to do is walk from the game.
Phrennzy 04-17-05, 01:49 PM	Perhaps the answer lies in you sig: Ready to Trash My DMs World Sounds to me as if you are just as competitive. Players can make the game seem like "Player vs DM" as readily as a DM can.
Draco Strang 04-17-05, 01:56 PM	Perhaps the answer lies in you sig: Sounds to me as if you are just as competitive. Players can make the game seem like "Player vs DM" as readily as a DM can. And Phrennzy speaks again. Damn that wisdom. Actually, maybe he's right? I hadn't caught your sig, but something like that really does hint at the DM versus Player/Player vs. DM mentality. You need to remember that D&D isn't a PvP game (except under very special circumstances) and needs to afforded a certain respect because of that. Only through cooperation and a sense of teamwork can players and DMs co-exist in a peaceful manner. After you've played with a DM for a long time, it develops into a relationship that's not too different from the one you'd have with a girlfriend. There's a lot of give and take, lover's spats, and the desire to better each other. I had this with a DM or two in my time (yea it sounds gay...) and it really goes a long way towards furthering the game. The DM and the party constantly pushed each other to do better and better, in role-playing, concept, and actual rules proficiency. That group lasted 4 years. I can't even begin to describe the change in group dynamics from the first session to the last. Ok. Now that I've poured my heart out, I'll go back to my Calculus.
ToxicWiz 04-17-05, 03:06 PM	hmmm... i think my sig needs some work :bigeyes: I never really thought about my sig that way, but you may well be right... I was thinking of 'destroying' my dms world, in refering to villages among other things, leveling cities and the like. i'll take things mentioned here into consideration, maybe a new character is the answer, but i thought that a last resort, because my characters usually take alot of work... Time for a serious think over, thanks for all your advice, i'll keep my eye on this thread if anyone else has any more suggestions. thanks
Thanatos02 04-17-05, 03:28 PM	I don't mean to be picky, but you may wish to reconsider even that approach. Leveling cities and villages might seem like a pretty kewl way to demonstrate your characters power, and if you play to build a more powerful character, it might seem like fun - but consider this. Even a fledgling DM with little experience often pours a lot of effort and imagination into their villages, cities and NPCs, and she might get ticked if every Tom, Dick, and Bob NPC is slaughtered by your uber-powerful C/E Blackgaurd. What I would do if I were you is ask your DM what she intends to run, and explain what it is you want to play, and come to an understanding of what kind of game you're actually playing. You're probably playing two different games, and if that's so, you're bound to clash. Before my group runs games, we usually discuss what characters we want to play, and how to get everything playing smoothly before we meet. It helps us avoid cliches, keep it interesting, and stop us from murdering each other before the game gets off the ground!
Kalli 04-17-05, 05:07 PM	Do you two get along outside of the game, either? If not, then the problem that needs to be addressed isn't a matter of DM/player. It's a matter of you and her not getting along in the first place. Maybe you should ask her why she wants to play, especially when she feels like she's being picked on. Furthermore, why does it seem like she's singled out when she's a player? It's possible there could be some discrimination, conscious or otherwise, going on. Addressing the symptoms isn't going to solve the larger problem. I'd suggest working outside the game to solve things first. And more than anything, being vindictive is going to make it worse for EVERYONE.
Mirikon 04-17-05, 06:45 PM	i have a major problem. me and two friends get along in and out of game, but then we have the DM (although the problem is the same when they are a player). they have one answer to everything, "i'm the dm" and drops dragons on our head, or assaulting our characters with legions of foes too hard for the group if the choatic evil character doesn't act like a paladin, or we didn't take such and such route instead of the way she wanted us. she seems to see every attack against the character she plays as an attack against her , and she likes to pay it back twice as hard when she dms. now comes the icing on the cake, she is my sister, so i get the whole let me do this or i'll throw a tantrum/cry/sceam so we can't play. so now the question, how do i deal with this vengeful dm and oversensitive player? not letting them play isn't an option (sadly). what do i do? I'm sorry, but not letting the brat play is really the only option. Best thing to do would be to move the game sight to a friend's house, or perhaps just tie your sister up, gag her, and throw her in a closet until you're done.
Mirrormind 04-21-05, 04:03 PM	Uhhhhhh....Bound and Gag the Sister? Woah....... I think I need to state my opinion here. Okay, dude; Obviously you need the opinion of an older brother about handling little sisters, and luckily I happen to be an older brother who suprizingly has a younger sister! :D AND YES, SHE IS VERY, VERY, SUBPSYCHOTICALLY obstaining to me everytime I come home from college. There are times when she is very nice, but then again she can be a very big.......................well..... Yet, I still believe that I am somewhat at fault when I witness the way she acts towards me. You see, for many years I grew up paying more attention to videogames, then her life. I do not think I caused much damage by ignoring her; I think I did the damage when I excluded her from playing, because she was new to the videogames, while my brothers were not. I always felt compeled to show her the right way to do such actions, and one day, she simply lost intrest in my games, my life, and even me. Only now in college do I reflect on such things, and only now do I see how I could have been a better sibling. I now am trying to patch things up, but I do not know where to begin. This is why I urge you to try and encourage her yearnings to play such games with you, even if it means playing a pink pony! This is not some friend, or brother who knows that destroying a world is really funny, - Man it was fun nuking towns with magic, while playing with my bros - but she is your sister, and they usually do not like it when you destroy that which they love to create. When you really think about it, you are not just destroying the world she Dungeoneered; You destroying your sister's love. Her love of the game, the love of creation and maintainment of the game, and her love of you: All of these you are both killing and twisting into vengeful memories, filled with hatred. Yeah, I know; You might think I am full of it, but one day - hopefully when you read this - you will see that I was right. Disregard any ideas of stepping away from her, as those who state it are only thinking about one attribute of the bigger picture. It is not about having your own fun, as much as having fun with others. Good luck, dude.
Bort333 04-21-05, 04:28 PM	Um CE just shouldn't be played by PC's unless everyone is playing crazy charchters like that. They never mesh with the party.
Gargs454 04-21-05, 04:45 PM	I agree with Bort. Frankly, CE characters can't even mesh with other CE characters. This may be the biggest flaw in D&D because if roleplayed correctly, CE characters tend to have very little incentive to work together for an extended period of time.
Loopy 04-21-05, 04:47 PM	Um CE just shouldn't be played by PC's unless everyone is playing crazy charchters like that. They never mesh with the party. That is a bit of a generalized statement. Sounds like your DM didn't lay down the proper ground rules at the beginning of the game and you ran with a character idea that he wasn't prepared to DM for. I think your DM might be a bit like me and does not want the bother of evil characters in his game and would prefer a more cooperative environment. Mixed good/evil parties almost always end up either with "I can't justify my character hanging out with that ***hole anymore." or, on the other hand the players try to come up with overly elaborate and unlikely ways the characters might get along. "Hey, man. My Paladin knows that dude stole all the money from that orphenage and then used the residents for his own sick pleasures, but he's my BRO... my DAWG! I know he can change! Just give him another chance! Chance 37 has got to be the lucky one!"
Andrew_980 04-21-05, 07:19 PM	tell them to grow up or you're gone. simple
weasel fierce 04-21-05, 07:46 PM	Two options: A: Explain that you are not having fun. B: Walk out Advising the GM to actually read the DMG (the non-rules part too) can work too.