Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LinusMundane 01-03-08, 04:36 PM	Do you think they have to adhere to the knight in shining armor always chivalrous stereotype? Or can they be drunken sloppy *****s as long as they don't break some set moral code? I am looking for some examples of opinions because while I have played D&D for a long time, I have never played a Paladin. I have a friend in my group that has never played before and has been playing a Paladin for the last few sessions and he sometimes finds himself in situations that he shouldn't be in. He is strongminded though and he would rather figure out the right way to play than to re roll and start a fighter or something. Our DM awards and subtracts XP based on encounters as well as if your character performs in game as it should or not so its kind of important for him to start getting it right all the time.
toucanbuzz 01-03-08, 05:18 PM	You're opening a can of worms here for the alignment pundits... Do you have a background story? The PHB description of a paladin gives you a pretty good idea of your guidelines, and the background embellishes it. While a paladin is unlikely to be a sot, perhaps your paladin was a heavy drinker early in life and has sworn off his wild partying days (though he still has stories to tell, much to the surprise of his companions). Lawful doesn't necessarily mean organized, though the two go hand-in-hand. So sure, he can be sloppy, a sloppy dresser even. Is this a reflection of his charisma (does he look better unshaven or look like the homeless?) A paladin is going to do the right thing, but it doesn't mean they can't crack jokes, dance with a lady in a bar, or take payment for a job (a lawful deal). But, a paladin will see the guilty be punished, he will right wrongs without being asked or paid, and he will keep his word. The paladin has always been a much maligned, much misunderstood class. Perhaps lack of a human side plays a role (what was he like as a kid, did he cry when his cat Fluffy ran away, etc.). Background always fleshes out a character, and soon you're playing Bertrem o' the Order who hugged his mother goodbye as he became squire to Sir Henri to become an esteemed hero of his land rather than the Human Paladin with a strength of 17. And once you have this background, your actions seem to make more sense, and you'll know when you're stepping over the bounds. Enjoy the Paladin!
GnomeBoy 01-03-08, 05:21 PM	Once had the pleasure of playing alongside a good friend playing an alcoholic paladin for awhile. The character strived to high ideals, but didn't always meet them -- it was a great variant on the stereotype.
LinusMundane 01-03-08, 05:24 PM	Thanks for the input. I would like to keep this from becoming an alignment festival, LG is the requirement, LG is what he will be, mainly I am looking for people who have played one before for a while or DM's who've had a good one in their campaign.
CryoSilver 01-03-08, 05:31 PM	I played a palaldin in a game a while ago, and while many will decry it, I played him as a merciles destroyer of all evil that he encountered. The key word is MERCILESS. This paladin did not accept surrender; if the bad guy was lying on the ground, begging for quarter, the paladin gave him 5 seconds (one round) to accept an atonement spell and immediately become good, or off with his head. He was a real Detect *thump* guy; if the shopkeeper was evil, he had, well, 5 seconds to explain why, or he was introduced to Mr Holy Avenger. In this game, I took Good and Evil as D&D defines them: universal, objective standards that either empower heaven, or empower Hell: if you were evil, you served Asmodeus and Demogorgon, and that was that.
?Aeolus? 01-03-08, 06:25 PM	If you have access to it, look at the Book of Exalted Deeds; the first chapter describes pretty well, what good is. In my oppinion, this is also what a Paladin is supposed to be. He can be a normal guy, but he will try to help the weak and poor and most of the time he will show mercy (Cryo's example shows another way of playing one). He will try give evil guys a chance for remorse, but he will act, if the opponent is beyong salvation (undeads are an example). A paladin is a "knight in shining armor", but he is so much more: a teacher, a beacon of hope for those, who have been unlucky, an bringer of new light and belive, for those who have lost their faith, a liberator for those, who are under the yoke of tyranny or surpressing monsters. Those ideals can be stuck to many types of person you want to play: the konservative judging one or the storyteller, who has a nice joke to almost every situation.
Roelandt 01-03-08, 06:41 PM	I have found playing my paladin as a richly rewarding experience. A character with the strength and power to actually do the things I often wish I could, but don't have the strength to back it up. As a DM, I love it when a player GETS IT. When his paladin is a beakon that challenges and inspires the other players or NPCs. I was rather shocked to see that the Book of Exalted Deeds pretty much nailed it. I recommend the "Evil Paladin" players out there read the first chapter of the book. Unless you look for it, there aren't too many other places to find what a real good guy is anymore. Paladins don't "adhere to some set moral code." That's a Kensai. Those that don't get it define good as someone with a bunch of rules. Paladins are Good and Lawful and are good at it. No, a paladin generally would not and could not be a drunken, broken bum...but a MAN who is a paladin could fail and fall onto hard times. A Paladin would consider drunkeness and the adiction that comes with it a weakness (I'm not a paladin and I know I sure do). The idea of a paladin falling into that weakness is fairly remote. Still, I could see a man who is a paladin who has witnessed alot of death to be negatively affected by it, particularly if he has a low wisdom (self control) score. Forgive me for using modern pop culture from here on out. Captain America is a classic paladin. A good person who considers others before himself (the classic description of good), is not a merciless destroyer of all things evil. That's evil. Sorry. He's a champion of justice and righteousness...and that means he's just and righteous...not an insane hypocrite. Captain America is not above mercy, forgiveness, grace, or beating your head in if you won't give up. He is so purely capable that he's strong enough emotionally and physically to back it up with strength and man enough to live it. He is a classic hero. The Playstation Generation often doesn't get that (believe it or not, they naively consider that weakness:eek: ). They often consider "good" as the character on the left joystick that murders evil. However, Bruce Willis's character in the Last Boy Scout could be considered a "fallen paladin." He was a drunk, down and out. I remember the scene where he picked up an old cigarette off the ground and looked at it and realized there's no reason why he shouldn't smoke it. Sure he's not a classic paladin in the classic sense. But he was a good man. He risked his life to save others, and was willing to see the best in people...if not himself. Maybe this is where you should go with the "fallen" paladin. Remember what a paladin abhors...evil sure...but what is evil? To a paladin, evil is pitiful weakness. It is the inability for a weakminded, self serving being to yield and submit like a whipped puppy to every urge, desire, or compulsion, no matter how trivial it might be. For a paladin, or any champion of goodness and law (let alone the average typical good person in real life) to embrace such weakness is pretty unlikely, but when you enter the human element in, just about anything is possible since we are far from perfect. A paladin would be someone who would strive to be perfect. Though he often fails, he is not a failure. He strives to rise above the dirt, to offer hands up to those who are willing. He is not an insane murderer of anything labled "evil," as some might suggest. He is not a hypocrite (for those who would quickly subscribe hipocritical elements to him), and IS what he BELIEVES. That's an important distinction. To me a paladin is a relentless, explosively heroic icon. He would tear into town on his massively muscled white horse, dive off of it, risking life and limb, to catch the old ladies fallen basket and help her up the stairs. He is not a twisted hypocrite of rage, who would ruthlessly murder that innocent, mean old woman who no one in her family likes, who happens to read as evil...which would get him dropped and or captured by a REAL paladin (or a player who get is). So go for it. Play him down and out. Just don't make him a hypocrite, because then, he'd lose his paladin abilities. He knows that what he's doing is weakness, and he "should" be above that, but don't let it change who and what he is or...again...he'd become a plain vanilla fighter. As touchcanbuz wisely illuded to earlier..."the play is the thing." Come up with a good backstory for where your character is. I'm thinking of a one shot Everquest story drawn by Jim Lee where the paladin was a drunk. He'd failed and lost so much that he couldn't handle it. The lead character had to draw him out to his former greatness. If you're going to play a "broken man," remember the basic rule that makes a storyline: "The protagonist has to grow or fade or it's not a story." Be open to the character changing, either climbing up or climbing down. Don't be afraid of growth or regression. Roleplaying is the key. Rent the Last Boyscout. It'll get your juices flowing. From what you said, if you can get what he IS on the inside, this stands to be a very rewarding roleplaying experience for you. PS: Aeolus...the previous poster...he SO GETS IT. I'd love to run a game with that guy playing a paladin. That character would be unstoppable!
Legdiwena 01-03-08, 07:06 PM	His behavior should be influenced by deity he serves, if any.
Mock26 01-03-08, 07:09 PM	Do you think they have to adhere to the knight in shining armor always chivalrous stereotype? Or can they be drunken sloppy *****s as long as they don't break some set moral code? I am looking for some examples of opinions because while I have played D&D for a long time, I have never played a Paladin. I have a friend in my group that has never played before and has been playing a Paladin for the last few sessions and he sometimes finds himself in situations that he shouldn't be in. He is strongminded though and he would rather figure out the right way to play than to re roll and start a fighter or something. Our DM awards and subtracts XP based on encounters as well as if your character performs in game as it should or not so its kind of important for him to start getting it right all the time. It would depend on the Paladin's Code that my Paladin was following. I've played a number of Paladin's over the years, and two of my favorite were vastly different. One was a female knight in shining armor type who was often an annoyance to the group (and forced them to roleplay behind my characters back to get away with stuff, such as some characters would instigate religious debates so my character would look away while the thief did some of his activities). Another was bound by a code similar to that of the real world samurai and was allowed, by his code, to slay anyone who surrendered. He was also a womanizer and drank heavily and often blew most of his reward at the best brothels in the towns they visited. They were both a ton of fun to play, and were also quite successful as characters and as adventurers.
MrCustomer 01-03-08, 08:09 PM	The Paladin is an excelent class for roleplaying potential. However much depends on how the group as a whole roleplays with the Paladin's allignment perogatives. For example, a Paladin cannot associate with Evil people, nor can he condone lawless or evil behavior and is often compelled to act according to his class and do the right thing. This can bring him into conflict with the rest of the party if they aren't behaving themselves. Basically if you play a Paladin in a group of rather unsavoury characters, who are borderline thugs and mercearies for hire who have no scruples, then you are going to have issues. The party need not be angels, nor do they have to tow the line and follow the Paladin like patsies. They can still do alot (especially behind the Paladin's back) but they have to be reasonably tolorable.
Mock26 01-03-08, 08:28 PM	For example, a Paladin cannot associate with Evil people, nor can he condone lawless or evil behavior and is often compelled to act according to his class and do the right thing. This can bring him into conflict with the rest of the party if they aren't behaving themselves. I think a lot depends on the Paladin's Code. I don't see anything wrong with some Paladin's being allowed to use a little bit of evil for the greater good. My above mentioned Paladin who had a code that was in part based on real world Samurai was allowed to use poison to fight evil.
Kit_the_Odd 01-03-08, 08:29 PM	If you have time for a bit of reading I suggest the trilogy "The Deed of Paksenarrion" by Elizabeth Moon. The books are "Sheepfarmer's Daughter", "Divided Alegience", and "Oath of Gold". There are multiple ways to play a paladin, but I always prefer the "standard bearer" version. The paladin is the one sent to provide aid in fighting evil and show that it is possible to do so. To me this is exemplified by the aura of courage ability, the paladin strengthens everyone around him by his example and mere presence.
Nephlite 01-03-08, 10:02 PM	Do you think they have to adhere to the knight in shining armor always chivalrous stereotype? Or can they be drunken sloppy *****s as long as they don't break some set moral code? I am looking for some examples of opinions because while I have played D&D for a long time, I have never played a Paladin. I have a friend in my group that has never played before and has been playing a Paladin for the last few sessions and he sometimes finds himself in situations that he shouldn't be in. He is strongminded though and he would rather figure out the right way to play than to re roll and start a fighter or something. Our DM awards and subtracts XP based on encounters as well as if your character performs in game as it should or not so its kind of important for him to start getting it right all the time. The Paladin is up to you. The PHB's example is a Alihandra: who slays evil without mercy (which means without compassion): she represents the classic Detect than Smite-on-sight (D&S) Paladin. A Paladin can be a drunkard, but remember doing evil even when drunk makes you fall. So yes, as long as he follows the Paladin code he can do anything.
Sinis 01-03-08, 10:21 PM	As long as his personal habits don't interfere with his Code of Conduct, anything and everything goes! A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act. Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents. What is "honourable" is debatable (talk to your DM). Other than that, do what you want, and have fun :)
calronmoonflower 01-04-08, 04:33 AM	1). Ask the DM and the other players if they mind you playing a paladin. 2). Talk to your DM about how good/evil works in their game. 3). Work out a code of honor and get it approved by your DM. Beyond being lawful good, not performing evil acts, or any major violation of the code of conduct you do not have to play it in any particular fashion. This link may help as well: What a paladin should(n't) do?
kelvinaw273 01-04-08, 06:18 AM	I played a palaldin in a game a while ago, and while many will decry it, I played him as a merciles destroyer of all evil that he encountered. The key word is MERCILESS. This paladin did not accept surrender; if the bad guy was lying on the ground, begging for quarter, the paladin gave him 5 seconds (one round) to accept an atonement spell and immediately become good, or off with his head. He was a real Detect *thump* guy; if the shopkeeper was evil, he had, well, 5 seconds to explain why, or he was introduced to Mr Holy Avenger. In this game, I took Good and Evil as D&D defines them: universal, objective standards that either empower heaven, or empower Hell: if you were evil, you served Asmodeus and Demogorgon, and that was that. This is, in many cases, exactly how you role-play a blackguard. In theory you CAN play a paladin as a Smite-O-Matic character (Detect Evil, if Yes then attack and Smite) but it isn't much fun, and in many settings (Eberron, Ravenloft) it is a short-cut to getting into deep trouble. One thing to remember is that how people see themselves and how people see them are two different things. Evil people often do NOT see themselves as Evil - they justify their actions based on egocentric or circular arguments, they claim they work for the greater good etc. A fallen paladin may well believe themselves to be doing good while oppressing the innocent and fighting the just ("They just don't see that I am right, and as they oppose me, the agent of good, they must be Evil!"). On the other hand, good people are often very critical of their own faults; so they will often play down their own 'goodness'. They don't see themselves as holy but as flawed and painfully lacking in perfection. A true paladin may not see themselves as a paladin at all: they are 'just a warrior trying to do the right thing' as opposed to a sworn agent of the divine. Some paladins will be trained and dedicated to a church ideal, but others will be 'ordinary people' with a calling. The cynical, die-hard grouch who nonetheless girds his loins and refuses to abandon the helpless or give up the good fight is as good a paladin as any other: he knows he is human and fallible, he knows he may be doomed to fall or fail, but he isn't giving it up without a fight.
navar100 01-04-08, 06:47 AM	I once played a paladin who was wholesome, sappily so. He didn't detect evil; he got goosebumps. He didn't lay on hands; he kissed booboos because that's what his mother did when he scraped his knee, etc. He did what was Right beacuse it was obvious that it was Right. My favorite adventure: It was a 2E game and we played the Salt Marsh U1, U2, U3 series. When it came time to encounter the Lizardmen, before we went to the caves I explained to the party that the Lizardmen are not our enemy; we only want to talk to them about the concerns of the people of Salt Marsh. We are technically invading their home when we go into their cave so they will defend themselves. We should try to keep fighting to a minimum. The party agreed. There were a couple of fights but everyone fought defensively. We took great pains not to kill any Lizardman or their pets; it was all subdual. When we finally found a Lizardman who understood common we were so relieved. I immediately laid down my weapon, the party followed, and plead our case that we only wanted to talk. The fact that we didn't harm anyone was a factor in them willing to listen. We learned of the Sahuagin. We helped them. The Lizardmen became friends with Salt Marsh and our party's own town. That was a great paladin moment.
Derren S. 01-04-08, 06:49 AM	You play paladins so that you don't violate the DMs personal interpretation of alignment. Forget everything you have read about alignment in the PHB. Most likely your DM did not read that and instead assigns alignment by gut feeling. So ask your DM what he will make evil in his game. By raw being evil requires some rather vile act but there are DMs whi think everything not nice is evil. Stealing a few copper? -> Evil A child boxing a other child? -> Evil Using swearwords? -> Evil Some DMs also think that everything chaotic is evil. So ask your DM what he makes evil in his game and what not and what he expects you to do with evil. Some DMs require you to reform or deliver all evil you find to a prison. That of course total nonsense but thats how some DMs think. And don't dare to use your Detect Evil power on random NPCs because you could detect a secret character which will ruin the DMs plot. Also don't use it when talking with important NPCs because that might also ruin the DMs plot. Better you don't use it at all or ask your DM beforehand if it is ok for him if you do use Detect Evil.
DrMorganes 01-04-08, 07:49 AM	I think a lot depends on the Paladin's Code. I don't see anything wrong with some Paladin's being allowed to use a little bit of evil for the greater good. My above mentioned Paladin who had a code that was in part based on real world Samurai was allowed to use poison to fight evil. But Mock, that's the crux of a D&D paladin: they don't stoop to the methods used by others. "A little bit evil" is the same as "evil". Other characters - particularly Chaotic characters - will argue that the end justifies the means, but to the paladin the means IS the end. The way he lives his life defines him. What you're describing isn't a straight-up paladin, but a Grey Guard. There's a difference.
DrMorganes 01-04-08, 07:53 AM	One more thing... I recommend you read my post on paladins in Zherog's FAQ thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14609121&postcount=4) at the top of this forum before you so much as write "paladin" on the "Class:" line of your character sheet.
narack 01-04-08, 07:56 AM	Paladin is easy to play when you understand 3 things. Paladin is good Paladin is like Bugs Bunny Bugs Bunny is 50% psycho So Paladin goes very well with obsession or problems. Like someone mention, alcoholism is a good one. Paladin are maybe good but after having killed tons of people because you were told so by nearly always someone else. You may finish by starting doubting your own choice which can lead you to alcoholism or something else. so far i played multiple Paladin whit these aspect : -Alchoolic -Depressive
Dunsel 01-04-08, 10:32 AM	1). Ask the DM and the other players if they mind you playing a paladin. 2). Talk to your DM about how good/evil works in their game. 3). Work out a code of honor and get it approved by your DM. Beyond being lawful good, not performing evil acts, or any major violation of the code of conduct you do not have to play it in any particular fashion. This link may help as well: What a paladin should(n't) do? Nutshell! Especially #2 and #3. If the DM and the player are on the same page, that is all that counts.
KIDS 01-04-08, 01:37 PM	How do I play a Paladin? As a really really really good person, considerate and wishing to others only what he would wish for himself. Humble and contemplative, but secure in the sense of his deity and ideals watching over him. As such, I think people find too many "you fall" flaws in how people play Paladins, with alignment being such a sensitive issue it is common sense to be tolerant and not nitpick things like "you saved an 8 year child instead of a 8.2 year child"... :mad: p.s. and oh, chivalry, armor or fighting ability have nothing to do with being a Paladin. You can play like that, but it's certainly not a requirement
Voran 01-04-08, 01:59 PM	This is really a conversation you should be having with your DM. We can give you a bazillion examples of how WE play paladins, but if that doesn't mesh with the way your DM envisions it, there's going to be conflicts and it probably won't be fun for either of you. I've got different expectations of players of Paladins than the next DM, and they'll have different ones than the next guy. Figure out what you're thinking a Paladin should be, and talk to your own DM to see how that works, if you need to make changes or some compromise can be reached.
darkneolink 01-04-08, 02:35 PM	ask a paladin (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=858362) if you have any doubts
askandarion 01-04-08, 03:11 PM	How do I play a paladin? Like a fiddle. :D If paladins were perfect, they'd be solars. Paladins, as I play them, are humble and know they have flaws. These flaws may be minor in comparison with other characters, or they could be big ones. The important thing is, if the paladin is flawed, that they REALIZE they have these flaws, and fight against them as relentlessly as they do against evil. If I played a paladin as having a flaw but not realizing it, to me that is hubris. And hubris is what causes a fall. I might even play a paladin that thinks they have this horrible flaw when they don't, but on the whole my paladins tend to be hyperaware of a thin line they balance on, and strive to remain aware of it. So there tends to be a lot of inner conflict. I also accept people at face value unless I have suspicions or evidence otherwise, whether it's a first meeting or someone I've known for years. No Detect Evil unless there's evil afoot anyway. Unfortunately, paladins aren't really made to be antiheroic characters in my mind. They're supposed to be the Don Quixotes and Flash Gordons of the world. Giving them flaws like being alcholics, or delusional, usually ends up being the way they lose their powers. By the RAW, you could have a sloppy drunk laying hands on people... But the second that flaw interferes with the code, it's over. And a weakness like that usually means it will interfere. As others have said, it depends on the DM. But where you said I have a friend in my group that has never played before and has been playing a Paladin for the last few sessions and he sometimes finds himself in situations that he shouldn't be in. , I find that kind of worrying. If he needs to start "getting it right", he needs to find out what his DM thinks a paladin's behavior should be, as Voran said.
metalmayhem80110 01-04-08, 03:32 PM	I played a palaldin in a game a while ago, and while many will decry it, I played him as a merciles destroyer of all evil that he encountered. The key word is MERCILESS. This paladin did not accept surrender; if the bad guy was lying on the ground, begging for quarter, the paladin gave him 5 seconds (one round) to accept an atonement spell and immediately become good, or off with his head. He was a real Detect *thump* guy; if the shopkeeper was evil, he had, well, 5 seconds to explain why, or he was introduced to Mr Holy Avenger. In this game, I took Good and Evil as D&D defines them: universal, objective standards that either empower heaven, or empower Hell: if you were evil, you served Asmodeus and Demogorgon, and that was that. ... Wow, you make my paladin look nice. I mean you at least gave them 5 seconds... I, well, ummm, walked up and said "You will have to answer to Pelor for your sins" and than offed them right there.
Prime32 01-04-08, 04:01 PM	PALADIN (http://www.newgrounds.com/collection/paladin.html) That is all :cool:
DrMorganes 01-04-08, 07:11 PM	PALADIN (http://www.newgrounds.com/collection/paladin.html) That is all :cool: o.O And the ads in the sidebars are enough to cause a fall from grace! NSFW content at the end of that link!
Entropy_Judge 01-04-08, 10:53 PM	Our DM awards and subtracts XP based on encounters as well as if your character performs in game as it should or not so its kind of important for him to start getting it right all the time. Biggest thing: Talk to your DM, and figure out how *he* thinks a Paladin should be played. It doesn't matter what anyone here says - if he thinks Paladin's are Smite-on-Sight machines, that's what you should play your Paladin as. If he thinks they are merciful, diplomatic, and prefer conversion to violence, that's how you should play him/her. On the other hand, if he doesn't have an idea, or says he doesn't want to share it with you, make a code/list of behavior that your Paladin will follow, and clear/share it with your DM, so you both know (and have a written record!) of how your character is supposed to act *before* you start playing. Beyond that, I don't have any advice - I've never played a Paladin. I prefer to think of them as similar to the Heralds of Valdemar (if you've ever read any of Mercedes Lackey's books), and while I greatly respect those individuals, I just don't have the proper mindset to stay in that type of character.
The_Shaman 01-05-08, 07:28 AM	If I were to say in one word how I'd envision paladins, it would be "heroic." As in: old-school heroes, who may have their failings - they are mortal - but true heroes nonetheless, larger-than-life champions of noble causes. This archetype seems to be currently overshadowed by popular antiheroes or reluctant heroes, but that's part of the charm. As regarding their alignment, I'd try to simply mix the typical lawful and good characteristics, and accept pretty much anything that comes out of it, perhaps with a slight leaning towards good - they are prohibited from doing any evil, but can get away with a minor chaotic act or two. Of course, as others have said, it would be wise to consult the DM. How alignment is understood varies from person to person, and the paladin class is probably one most tightly bound to a certain alignment.
LinusMundane 01-05-08, 11:22 AM	I linked the Paladin to this thread and he stopped reading it when he hit the Captain America post. That post is the one that did it for him, and last night when we played he was a new character, it was like something clicked and he just got it. Thanks for all the advice, he did have a talk with the DM to explain how he would be playing and the DM was fine with it so shouldn't be an issue here on out.
Sinfire Titan 01-05-08, 10:22 PM	Do you think they have to adhere to the knight in shining armor always chivalrous stereotype? Or can they be drunken sloppy *****s as long as they don't break some set moral code? I am looking for some examples of opinions because while I have played D&D for a long time, I have never played a Paladin. I have a friend in my group that has never played before and has been playing a Paladin for the last few sessions and he sometimes finds himself in situations that he shouldn't be in. He is strongminded though and he would rather figure out the right way to play than to re roll and start a fighter or something. Our DM awards and subtracts XP based on encounters as well as if your character performs in game as it should or not so its kind of important for him to start getting it right all the time. Like this. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=808103&highlight=Paladin) Seriously though, I play my Pallys like the were Urick or Leonard from Drakengard. Then again, I prefer Crusaders or Incarnates to the Pally, so I don't play one often.
Mock26 01-05-08, 11:19 PM	But Mock, that's the crux of a D&D paladin: they don't stoop to the methods used by others. "A little bit evil" is the same as "evil". Other characters - particularly Chaotic characters - will argue that the end justifies the means, but to the paladin the means IS the end. The way he lives his life defines him. What you're describing isn't a straight-up paladin, but a Grey Guard. There's a difference. What I'm describing is a straight-up paladin in my game. It is not a grey guard.
Resist77 01-06-08, 01:00 AM	Once had the pleasure of playing alongside a good friend playing an alcoholic paladin for awhile. The character strived to high ideals, but didn't always meet them -- it was a great variant on the stereotype. isn't alcohol technically a poison, and therefore incompatable with a paladin's code? I would probably overlook it, as I don't feel that's what the PHB intends to say, but a very stringent DM would probably have something to say about a paladin who constantly breaks something specifically stated in the Code of Conduct description (albeit a mere technicality)
navar100 01-06-08, 01:49 AM	You've got to be kidding.
The_Shaman 01-06-08, 08:13 AM	isn't alcohol technically a poison, and therefore incompatable with a paladin's code? I would probably overlook it, as I don't feel that's what the PHB intends to say, but a very stringent DM would probably have something to say about a paladin who constantly breaks something specifically stated in the Code of Conduct description (albeit a mere technicality) Even if that were the case - and I'd say it's not (just because poisons cause ability damage it doesn't mean that everything that causes ability damage is a poison), it would be a minor enough problem with the code that it practically wouldn't matter. Generally, given how close the paladin code is to the principles of LG alignment, I'd say that while a character maintains LG alignment, they won't have any problems with the code. Evil acts are something different. Paladins may get away with some things, but a conscious evil act gets them in serious trouble.
GnomeBoy 01-06-08, 11:45 AM	isn't alcohol technically a poison, and therefore incompatable with a paladin's code? I would probably overlook it, as I don't feel that's what the PHB intends to say, but.... You've got to be kidding. Even if that were the case ... it would be a minor enough problem with the code that it practically wouldn't matter.... Well, I think clinically in RL, alcohol is considered a poison, hence the term 'alcohol poisoning'. Of course, water can poison you, too, if you drink waaay too much. And since this situation came back in the halcyon 2nd Edition days, the poison condition in-game may be moot. Haven't played it in eight years, so my (rapidly-aging) memory may fail me on that point. ('Sides, I think they're talking about administering poison, so if an alcoholic paladin drinks, well, woe to him, but there's no breakage of the code. On the other hand, if he gives someone a drink....!)
Prime32 01-06-08, 11:53 AM	If the paladin has to fight an evil 1st-level commoner, it would be dishonorable of him not to get stone drunk so the poor guy stands a chance. :P
Kobajagrande 01-07-08, 04:03 AM	Well, I think clinically in RL, alcohol is considered a poison, hence the term 'alcohol poisoning'. There is also food poisoning, so we don't admit to alcohol being more than "somewhat intoxicating". As to playing a paladin as intended, I seriously thik it needs to be some sort of a consensus between the entire grop as to what kind of game will be played. The PCs should be good men; and the paladin should strive to be the best among them. Simply, the group should be ready and ok with the paladin refusing the award in the name of the group for saving the village; the GM should also keep it in mind and count on the party getting the stuff they need some other way. Also, GM should tailor the game so the party is not tempted to send the paladin somewhere while they commit some evil deed. It should not be a game where the players capture a minor bad guy and then worry about how they'll get him to reveal his secrets and should they torture him or not; he should reveal them with his dying breath as he hangs from the PC's blade. It should not be a game about moral choices, because a paladin is incapable of making one; it should be a game about hard things PCs know they must do because it is the right thing to do. It should be a game where, when the foe is disarmed and laying on the ground, the Paladin stops and lets him pick up his sword and stand up before finishing him. You know, those kinds of things.
Man in the Funny Hat 01-07-08, 07:27 PM	Do you think they have to adhere to the knight in shining armor always chivalrous stereotype? Or can they be drunken sloppy *****s as long as they don't break some set moral code?They can have a lot of faults, even SEVERE faults, as long as they don't break their moral code and/or ATONE for their failures when they do. Paladins can be: Arrogant Vain Hedonistic (that is, he/she may fight this tendency, not that they necessarily are wholly hedonistic) Immature Materialistic (again you need not HAVE an abundance of material things - only that you desire them overmuch) Dreamer Overemotional (hot-tempered, weepy, or both) Humorless (Mr. Spock?) Frivolous/wasteful Pessimistic/gloomy Careless/absentminded Flippant/tactless Suspicious Argumentative Slovenly Impatient Lazy Paranoid Hypochondriac Obsessive-compulsive Practical joker Substance Addiction Adulterous These are all striking faults that a paladin can have and STILL be LG and a Paladin, most of which are NOT associated with chivalrous, knight-in-shining-armor stereotypes. Our DM awards and subtracts XP based on encounters as well as if your character performs in game as it should or not so its kind of important for him to start getting it right all the time.Your DM should be careful of determining for the player "how your character must perform". In fact, your DM should get his fat friggin' nose out of YOUR business of having YOUR character perform as YOU want him to perform - NOT AS THE DM WANTS HIM TO PERFORM. Print this, hand it to him and tell him _I_ told him so.
dndfr3k 01-07-08, 07:39 PM	Paladins are holy like they cant do evil but If you want to get drunk I dont see why not a pally cant have a bad day. but they are supposed to be pure.
twad 01-08-08, 06:27 PM	i play a paladin like any other class, with any kind of personality trait (include rude, impolite, smart, clever, moderation-in-all-things ect), but he firmly beleive in the greater good, help people in need and dont let injustice prevail, and follow the law where it is reasonably practical to do so. IMO paladins have more in common with a fighter/cleric than with a "stupid goody two shoes with evil radar and smite bombs" (wich is the cliche the pal is stuck with).
Shadowshimmer 01-10-08, 10:44 AM	I always play a Paladin like the Knight Navarre from LadyHawke. He is determined but just. Strong and kind to the weak and merciless against evil and injustice. I have many flaws as I believe the most interesting characters in role-playing, movies, literature, etc are flawed. The last Paladin I played was a 19 year old human who meant well but was very ignorant.
Lemurion 01-10-08, 06:40 PM	I have fun playing paladins, they're one of my favorite classes, though I haven't played one since my 2E days. (I've had to DM ever since I got into 3E). I still remember Simon the Templar (aka Eirik Hrolfsson Jarl Siffjord) the Paladin who walked back from the dead. Brave and honest, he disdained missile weapons and was always first in and last out. I still remember the time he harangued some warriors into joining us in the battle to free Siffjord. He was a lot of fun to play. Another paladin I played was the subject of a player joke that could have easily backfired. We rescued the maiden, and while my character was unconscious the other players fed him a love potion and put him in bed with her. When he woke up beside this maiden the first thing I did was have him propose. (It worked too.) If you approach it right, and the DM lets you, they can be more fun than almost any other class.
Kit_the_Odd 01-10-08, 09:26 PM	For another take on paladins, try David Weber's Bahzell Bahnakson. Books are "Oath of Swords", "War God's Own", and "Windrider's Oath". Bahzell is basically a barbarian turned paladin because, in his own words, he is "too thick skulled to not get involved".
beepaladin 01-21-08, 01:58 PM	One of my favorite characters, is a paladin, and, I've played her in a few different games. She's changed a lot though, as I've continued playing her, I've seen a sort of remarkable evolution of her character--perhaps a maturation? But also, a more understanding of what it means to be a paladin, from a roleplay standpoint. When I started her, she was kind of the Lawful Stupid smite and smash sort. But, I guess, in developing her character and backstory, I came to a few realisations. A paladin generally has a high charisma. That more than likely means they're likeable, inspirational, and charismatic. Coupled with the fact that they're good, this might make the paladin the sort who does stop and talk with children, hand out financial or material assistance to the poor. They're the sort who are willing to tell the NPC that their husband isn't coming back, but will also stay with the NPC if they need her, and maybe even check up on her from time to time when their adventures allow. It's kind of that a Paladin's a community figure. Not just a hero of the community, but a hero to the community. They should try to be accessible. I found tithing significantly to the church, donating to the community, turning down rewards (or at least, not taking more than those offering a reward could afford to pay), giving gifts both to party members and NPCs, were a good way of expressing the humanity of my paladin at least. It doesn't really set you back too much, particularly if the DM's willing to have the church or the community help you out a bit in return for your help. Not to say that the paladin's going to blindly help the villian, they still have their detect evil, and odds are a decent enough sense motive, plus spells like zone of truth and stuff, so there's a critical discernment there too. Kind of a heart of gold with a hand of iron. I don't know, just my thoughts.
Mock26 01-21-08, 04:00 PM	There is also food poisoning... Does that mean that the Paladin/Chinese Restaurant delivery guy who gives mad shrimp and causes food poisoning would fall? :D
I_roll_ones 01-22-08, 01:24 AM	isn't alcohol technically a poison, and therefore incompatable with a paladin's code? I would probably overlook it, as I don't feel that's what the PHB intends to say, but a very stringent DM would probably have something to say about a paladin who constantly breaks something specifically stated in the Code of Conduct description (albeit a mere technicality) So is lye. Does that mean that paladins can't use soap? And alcohol can be used for more then getting smashed. Treating cuts, and disinfecting water without the use of magic for one. And using evil to do good is steering right to the chaotic way of things, doing things to achieve a goal regardless of results. There are, however atonement spells, and I see paladins as humans who try very hard, but can fall to temptation or do questionable things, but then must make the case to their god to forgive them...And the god isn't inclined to forgive multiple times. And remember: Detect evil can be screwed with. If I played a paladin, I would be dubious of using as an excuse in fear that someone messed with it. Also, humility and mercy are just as much paladin virtues as strength and determination. I would say that not trying to talk to enemies or try to redeem and using violence as the first method is getting close to neutrality.
The_Shaman 01-22-08, 11:42 AM	So is lye. Does that mean that paladins can't use soap? And alcohol can be used for more then getting smashed. Treating cuts, and disinfecting water without the use of magic for one. And using evil to do good is steering right to the chaotic way of things, doing things to achieve a goal regardless of results. Actually, that can also be considered as lawful: you do what you consider proper without thinking what it can lead to or involve. Consider a soldier who is given a mission to poison a city well, thus causing a famine that will break the enemy morale and preventing further slaughter in the war. If he does it, it won't be a chaotic act - he was following orders just as he should have been. I rather think that paladins don't do evil because that would be disrespectful towards their faith, patrons, or even themselves: they are given holy powers because they are the most pious and dependable champions of light - and exactly because they would not stoop to doing evil. With great power (ok, not so great, but let's not nitpick) comes great responsibility, after all.
Dog_O_War 01-23-08, 03:15 PM	I've played many characters like paladins, but I've only ever actually played one paladin. He is a redeemer, seeing nearly all creatures as saveable if given the chance. Always warned an opponent before entering mortal combat. ("Surrender, flee, or fall to my blade" was one of my three warnings) Rarely struck from suprise, and when he did it was always for subdual. Never held a person's faults against them. Always healed others before himself, even if he was close to death. While knowledgeable about the scriptures of his religion, he never preached, and would always pray quietly. He respected other faiths, even those that did not call paladins (such as Gruumsh). Gave full quarter, even if he knew it to be a ruse. His smite was reserved for the truely wicked; demons and such. He had alot of smites too (had extra smites feat). Never told anyone how they should proceed, but what a prudent and proper course of action might be. Character-wise he was a woodsman from a small town in the mountains as well (had survival maxed as cross-class), and as such didn't see the need for mounts and the like. I had ranks in ride, but opted for charging smite instead of the special mount. He was like a normal guy to meet him on the street; simple, without desires (save for a comfortable life), not afraid of hard work or mixing with those that might've been below his social class. Infact, without his armour and holy symbol, you'd swear he was just a commoner. EDIT: to give you an idea of what he looked like, does anyone remember the Boardgame Darkworld? On the box of the biggest adventure one there was a knight with a dragon motif on his helm. That is the look I based the character on.
Zombie_Babies 01-23-08, 03:34 PM	How do I play a Paladin? Simple. I don't. I play a Crusader instead. I play a LG character though per the class I do not need to. I simply prefer the Crusader over the Paladin because it is less strict. I still play the bold hero who stands for good, follows his deity's teachings and strives to help those in need. Being a Crusader lets me have a little more leeway in following these tenets and is therefore much more enjoyable to play. This character is a Paladin with maneuvers instead of spells/lay on hands. This character is also a Paladin minus the "stick". I have my own code which is not nearly as severe as the Paladins'. This lets me be more effective overall... and lets me have more fun.
Lincoln Hills 01-23-08, 03:38 PM	...Yeah, Captain America's a good example. He doesn't wake up every morning and say, "Now to make the world pure! Through righteous violence!" I recently had my PCs encounter a fun NPC: ex-Barbarian, now Paladin in the service of Pelor. Sometimes the calling falls on somebody who wasn't expecting it, didn't welcome it - and will not refuse it. Remember, even if the player enjoys all those neat character abilities, that doesn't mean the character loves this change in his life. What's that line from Robert Jordan? - "Duty is as heavy as a mountain: death is as light as a feather"... or some such. You can run a character who enjoys his life in other respects, but views his paladin-hood as a burden which he only carries in order to help others. Then again, maybe you want somebody light-hearted: a Three Musketeers paladin. He'd be trouncing villains, assisting maidens and riding like a madman even if he were a Warrior - but if the gods insist on smiling on his trouncing, assisting and riding, who is he to say no? (Hint: practice your Swashbuckler's Laugh in private, not forgetting to put your fists to your hips first. Proper execution of this maneuver can count as a Bluff, Diplomacy, and/or Intimidate check at the key moment.)
BirdKilndar 01-24-08, 10:13 PM	I normally play rogues and characters of a chaotic bent but I do have one paladin character. Cassia's father is a retired paladin who rose to the status of nobility. He is still very faithful and active in the Church but he feels he does more good outside of the Paladin Order. Cassia grew up the spoiled youngest of five daughters. She joined the Order as a teenager mainly to defy her mother's expectations of a good marriage to a presentable nobleman and because she still remembered the stories her father told her and her sisters of battle and adventure. Cassia's very much a flawed character. She's quicker to fight than is acceptable in a paladin and has had to struggle for years in learning to control her temper. Not to mention she's prissy, pessimistic, and can come across as arrogant occasionally. She also tends to look the other way where her friends ( A very chaotic but good-hearted bunch ) are concerned. These flaws contributed to her near fall after she was captured and tortured due to being named a heretic because of her political beliefs. Paladins are mortals too and they are not infallible ( why else would there be blackguards? ) but they strive to overcome their flaws for the sake of the gods and the greater good. Sometimes a paladin may stumble or even backslide horriblely but they always keep trying. Heck, there might even be times where a paladin may doubt her cause or god but they continue on anyway. One thing I think a paladin requires is a certain brand of stubborness that never allows them to give up. Because paladins of every stripe ( No matter their flaws ) are good guys and the good guys save the day or die trying.
Ferol, Debtor of Torm 01-25-08, 02:28 PM	My favorite Paladin is the lawful but super good version. He/she focuses on destroying evil by doing good and offers quarter and mercy to even the most depraved villains. This kind of Paladin is lawful because he/she believes that the system works and he/she trusts in the people in power to do what is right. A little naive? Yes, but its breath of fresh air compared to antihero #5496.
Lemurion 01-25-08, 02:38 PM	My favorite Paladin is the lawful but super good version. He/she focuses on destroying evil by doing good and offers quarter and mercy to even the most depraved villains. This kind of Paladin is lawful because he/she believes that the system works and he/she trusts in the people in power to do what is right. A little naive? Yes, but its breath of fresh air compared to antihero #5496. Yep, I've gotten pretty tired of the "angsty-cool antihero of the month club." They remind me too much of teenage drama.
Ferol, Debtor of Torm 01-25-08, 02:46 PM	Yep, I've gotten pretty tired of the "angsty-cool antihero of the month club." They remind me too much of teenage drama. We can all agree that Batman is more interesting than Superman, but sometimes it’s nice to just be the infallible man of steel.
The_Shaman 01-25-08, 07:40 PM	My favorite Paladin is the lawful but super good version. He/she focuses on destroying evil by doing good and offers quarter and mercy to even the most depraved villains. This kind of Paladin is lawful because he/she believes that the system works and he/she trusts in the people in power to do what is right. A little naive? Yes, but its breath of fresh air compared to antihero #5496. I feel like that, really. Sometimes I read a backstory or see a character and go "right. Another dark hero" and flip the page/change the channel. It's a difficult line to walk between a Mary Sue and yet another Punisher, yet sometimes it's good to take the road less travelled.
Guardian1 01-25-08, 08:29 PM	One model for a paladin character is Herald Alberich (Herald is a title, not a name) from the Valdemar books Exile's Honor and Exile's Valor, both by Mercedes Lackey. Alberich is honorable, highly skilled in combat, not afraid to fight dirty if he has to (though he draws the line at using poison;he's a soldier, not an assassin), deeply religious but refuses to preach (again, not his job) and lastly, a loyal bodyguard to the Queen of his adopted homeland. Some of his deeds include saving his Queens' life not once but twice, as well as numerous arrests of dangerous criminals. Basically, this guy is, in my opinion, the paragon of what a paladin should be. Smart, strong, honorable but not too honorable, righteous but not self-righteous, and loyal to those who deserve his loyalty, this guy is the.:king:. (Obviously, you can tell I'm a fan of this character.)
Entropy_Judge 01-25-08, 08:40 PM	He's touched by a God (twice, I think), actually, so he *is* a Paladin, IMO.
Guardian1 01-26-08, 04:11 PM	He's touched by a God (twice, I think), actually, so he *is* a Paladin, IMO. Twice? That's news to me. I know he had one full-blown conversation with his God right at the end of the first book, and didn't figure it out until afterwards. You might be thinking of the religious experience he had when he discovered the true nature of the Companions. Back to topic. Alberich is a paladin in spirit, if not in actuality.
I_roll_ones 01-26-08, 05:55 PM	Basically, this guy is, in my opinion, the paragon of what a paladin should be. Smart, strong, honorable but not too honorable If going off of the LG paladin, this paladin would be falling, since paladins of the LG alignment believe that honor IS righteousness, and the two cannot be separated. They are also supposed to be paragons of honor, loyalty, law and good. They sorta land into deep trouble if they break the code majorly(A small fib that someone's dress isn't THAT ugly isn't going to do it, I mean something BIG) and they'll probably get unpaladined after a while, maybe even lose the LG status. That being said, I don't see why you can't have a divine champion with the class benefits of a paladin and a code that allows for a tiny bit more chaos(Go good, rather then do HONORABLE good). If LG gods can make paladins, I don't see why other gods can't make something similar. So I don't believe that all paladins should be LG, and I would allow a paladin to be NG if they wanted to. Unearthed Arcana has CG, LE and CE paladin types, not much of a stretch from there to make NG. Now, in all fairness, I tend to regard NG as the embodiment of good and the alignment in which truest good can arise. Not every NG character is going to be more good then a LG or a CG, but some might pursue good without a need to change or hold to tradition the way the other two good alignments are.