How do you role-play this situation? (sorry, its long) [Archive] - Wizards Community

How do you role-play this situation? (sorry, its long) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Metabubbles
03-21-05, 05:52 PM My DM is insisting on role-playing over hack-n-slash (our other game) which is great in my opinion. He spends a part-time job amount of time on preparing his games, everything is dialoged out and everything. Everything is original, and he is artistic which is nice. So what is the problem? There is no role-playing in it. My DM one night decided to give everybody XP for role-playing, except me, which if you can imagine burned me good. He gave extra XP to our other DM (which is a feline barbarian/rogue/something else) for tactically using a room's furniture to get better position on an NPC. In the middle of the fight he mentioned since he is multi-classing to the tactician out of the miniatures handbook (i think) he would get in better position. What, because he mentioned he is min/maxing, and he is using a room the same way anybody would he gets extra XP. The rest of the night was just hack and slash for him. I actually 'role-played' promoting my deity and spreading her name throughout the countryside, but not good enough. When I mentioned maybe we should get bonus XP for role-playing, and at the end of the night we relay to him what we thought we did for role-playing and he would give out the XP. He didn't like that idea and dropped the extra XP deal altogether. His biggest problem is that my character was similiar to my other character (in the begining, he was a charismatic sorcerer, of course they would be similiar) and he wants me to be able to distinguish between the 2.

One player is the DM of our other game and a huge Min/Max player, so he likes to avoid the role-play aspect. Another player is new to the game all together (less than 6 months) but has every rule memorized. No real experience in role-playing (also likes the numbers part not the role-play part, although to his defense he hasn't had an oppurtunity to role-play). The 3rd player is the DM's wife (which in my opinion and our other DM, her character h-giant psion something is min/maxed, which our current DM doesn't believe), she is a lot of fun and more than willing to role-play. I need others to role-play to well, role-play. My original idea was to go mystic theurge, but sorcerer/cleric not wizard cleric. I am a sorcerer in our other game so it was going to be an easy transition to this game. After much pressure from the DM about skill checks etc...he advised me to go wizard, so we change mid game to wiz/cleric. That sucks for me because I wanted to use my charisma to bring people to my deity, now we changed it to int, which is good, if I min/max.

So our problem becomes, she is more powerful than the rest of us, and we opt to min/max our characters, even more. My character was changed to wiz earlier so I thought I would optimize it by going geomancer. We are gestalt to begin with so this frustrates our DM, and he keeps saying is that what your 'character' would do? Now he demands we come up with role-playing aspects to our specific characters in black and white along with how 'he' the DM can use them to advance his campaign. I thought this was his game, we develop our characters he comes up with the plots, not; we develop our characters and we come up with plots. So he offers 5000xp award for the 'best' job by our next gaming session and would take XP away if we didn't do it. I literally filled out 8+pages of 'character questions' and how my character would respond. I typed up about 7 pages explaining the reason my character was a wiz/cleric, why I worship my deity (DM made up so I could have war & healing domains....yea....!!!)to why I became a Geomancer. I had to come up with some good stuff to explain why a city lover left the most advanced city in the known world (a wizard no less...) to go out into the deep dark forests. I mean I emailed it to him that night he requested it. He said it wasn't really what he was looking for???!!!??? So I researched, I found more stuff to optimize my role-playing, (I am still struggling to what he truly wants) and brought more to our role-playing session. The questionnare I found he liked so much he had me email everybody the basic one to take and fill in. My character was the only one to answer the questionnare. I am basically the only one to participate w/exclusion to the dm's wife, no idea what she did. But our other DM basically just told him the same things when he was min/maxing and it took him like 2 months to tell him just that! The other player wrote up a half page and brought it to our gaming session. WHAT!?! That's it, just a half a page.

Anyways, I am struggling to accept my role as a punching bag, and not having fun everytime we play. We have taken a break for awhile now and are getting ready to get together again. If I continue not having fun do I dare say, that's it i'm done? I know I will mention I am not having fun to the DM first to hopefully inspire more friendly fun than hard core must role play or else. But if the game ceases to get any better should I quit?
Karanth
03-21-05, 06:06 PM Tell your DM to read the first 2 chapters of the DMG. After that, he should realize that HE makes the plot, and the chars react, not the other way around. Also, XP awards for out-of-game stuff can never lead to good things. If everyone else is fine with it, and your DM isn't willing to listen, then maybe you should think of moving on.
Chandaroon
03-21-05, 11:00 PM Where to begin.....? I really feel bad for you.

1) The DM's job... Hmm well knowing what makes your character tick is useful, but if you've been playing this character since first level then that should be apparent by now as to why your character would do something. This writing of multi page documents and questionaires is crazy.

2) I want your character history. That means as much or as little as you want to tell me. Be careful not to leave me too much lee-way, cause I'll drive a truck through it. Example : I had a fighter who left home to become this big time adventurer. My fighter wanted to be a Lord and have his own keep. He left behind him a Mother, a sister, and a dead brother, a dead father. Well my fighter was gone for 3 years when he was returning to waterdeep from an adventure, he encountered his sister, From Cormyr. She was an Evil Sorcerer. Well to make a long story short I had to kill her. This made for some interesting role-playing. My DM taught me then that he can and will use anything, so I should be careful what I put in my characters history.

3) Sounds like your DM has it in for you. I have played with the same house rule as always. Walk through the door and everything is in character. Leave all your personal bagage at the door. This is a game you are supposed to have fun. If you are not then something is wrong.

3) I like players who do stuff like promote their diety. That kind of role-playing may work out so that you end up with a follower of your own.

4) As far as needing other people to role-play. Try this out Just stay in Character all the time till they get the hint.

That's my take. :)
UltimateReality
03-21-05, 11:40 PM But if the game ceases to get any better should I quit?Yes.

I really don't have much more to say than that, other than "life is too short to put up with ****** roleplaying groups, be they players or DMs". Took me two years to learn.
Metabubbles
03-22-05, 09:58 AM Thanks first off for the immediate response and kind words. As you all probably know its nice to get something off your chest and to have people respond in kind.

I think I will definitely give role-playing a chance, any hints as to what possibly my DM wants from me? Since I changed to wizard, I think I will use the whole knowledge aspect and focus on books, in game. If we happen to be at a town, I will obviously try to convert others to my deity, but will focus on research more. The DM is encouraging me to continue in Cleric and use the +1 spell caster level from geomancer to use for wizard. My turn checks etc... won't be negatively affected that way. Since I don't really do anything with my familiar I have to agree with him that way would be best. I am leaning to using create item feats, being cleric/wizard, there really shouldn't be anything I can't create.

How do I stay in character the whole night? Ajit is reading! Ajit is praying! Ajit is turning! Ajit is healing! Ajit is casting fireball! It seems kind of, well, redundant and honestly boring! Ajit is headstrong, CG, and wants to wipe clean all evil existing on this known world. When Ajit says 'all foul creatures of the evil empire of ebonia should die slowly of maggot infestation' the DM asks if I really say that, because evil ears are listening. Well my character would but metagaming and after a DM hint like that, I say no. DM even tells us after gaming sessions he had to fake some rolls or we would have died. I believe that is the role-playing experience, you said this, ok certain results happen, and you learn from it. Your group tried this, one died, you must learn from it, don't tuck it away or you hinder the role-playing experience.

But anyways these are but a few examples, and of course one sided, it is probably viewed a totally different way by others. I truly enjoy the people I play with, yes even the DM, it just seems in game everything changes. The new player I am hoping he gets inspired to DM, he has everything memorized, from the monster manual to the Complete warrior. Whatever book he gets his hands on I can trust him to become an expert. Should I suggest, if the game ceases to get better, we start new characters and allow him to DM? That way we keep the same group but different characters.
Thoronmir
03-22-05, 10:47 AM First, you and your DM need to reach some agreement on a few definitions. Good tactics and min/maxed character builds are not “roleplaying.” If he thinks otherwise, he needs to explain how he’s using the term. For a DM who claims to emphasize roleplaying over hack-and-slash, he doesn’t seem to have lived up to his own billing.

Second, it sounds as if he was expecting the players to cough up some plot hooks for him to use to create adventures. If so, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. So, you and he may have simply misunderstood each other. Providing the details of how your PC came to be and what motivates him to adventure are good first steps (and worthy of bonus XP in my game). But I also add some fodder for the DM … potential rivals, friends, and enemies … that he can decide whether to use or not. My last DM incorporated so many of the plot hooks from my PC’s background that I almost stopped writing backgrounds (it’s nice to have a long-lost friend or rival show up now and then … it grows wearisome when every adventure turns into “This is Your Life”).

You are absolutely correct when you said that you need other roleplayers for you to roleplay. If you’re the only roleplayer at the table, it just doesn’t work. As for how to stay in character, that’s easy. Just do it. Stop thinking of Ajit as someone else. No more “Ajit is praying” … make it “I am praying.” Speak in first-person; do not try to narrate Ajit’s life … live it. Resist the urge to preface your dialogue with “I say …” or “Ajit says …” and avoid slip ups like “I tell the guard my name.” You don’t have to be Laurence Olivier to roleplay; you just need to grow accustomed to thinking and speaking in first-person voice. Once you get used to it, it’s easy to maintain all night long.

Stop metagaming. But start giving thought to how Ajit would really behave. Would he care what “ears are listening” when he vows to scour all evil from the land? If he’s cautious that way, play him so … if he’s not, don’t let a “DM warning” hinder your roleplaying. BTW, tell your DM to stop metagaming so much too. If the DM asks anyone in the party “Do you really say that?” more than once each session, he’s metagaming too much. I give the players one free pass, then I assume their PCs do “say that” … then we all enjoy roleplaying the consequences of their loose tongues.

If you want to salvage your situation, the best advice I can offer is to work to improve communication among the group. There seems to be a lot of confusion over what the DM expects and how the other players want to play. Ask questions until you are sure you and the DM are on the same page. Ask for specific examples if you’re not clear about what he’s asking you to do.
Metabubbles
03-22-05, 01:19 PM Second, it sounds as if he was expecting the players to cough up some plot hooks for him to use to create adventures. If so, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. So, you and he may have simply misunderstood each other. Providing the details of how your PC came to be and what motivates him to adventure are good first steps (and worthy of bonus XP in my game). But I also add some fodder for the DM … potential rivals, friends, and enemies … that he can decide whether to use or not. My last DM incorporated so many of the plot hooks from my PC’s background that I almost stopped writing backgrounds (it’s nice to have a long-lost friend or rival show up now and then … it grows wearisome when every adventure turns into “This is Your Life”).

You are absolutely correct when you said that you need other roleplayers for you to roleplay. If you’re the only roleplayer at the table, it just doesn’t work. As for how to stay in character, that’s easy. Just do it. Stop thinking of Ajit as someone else. No more “Ajit is praying” … make it “I am praying.” Speak in first-person; do not try to narrate Ajit’s life … live it. Resist the urge to preface your dialogue with “I say …” or “Ajit says …” and avoid slip ups like “I tell the guard my name.” You don’t have to be Laurence Olivier to roleplay; you just need to grow accustomed to thinking and speaking in first-person voice. Once you get used to it, it’s easy to maintain all night long.

Stop metagaming. But start giving thought to how Ajit would really behave. Would he care what “ears are listening” when he vows to scour all evil from the land? If he’s cautious that way, play him so … if he’s not, don’t let a “DM warning” hinder your roleplaying. BTW, tell your DM to stop metagaming so much too. If the DM asks anyone in the party “Do you really say that?” more than once each session, he’s metagaming too much. I give the players one free pass, then I assume their PCs do “say that” … then we all enjoy roleplaying the consequences of their loose tongues.

Going from Ajit to "I" is an excellent idea, it seems the most basic things can fix the most complicated situations. I guess I don't mind helping the DM with plot hooks, especially when offered a 5000xp award, however I feel I was wronged when 'no' XP was awarded. Metagaming is difficult, but to the defense of the DM maybe "I" (me not Ajit) wasn't aware of our circumstances; enemy territory, known spies, etc... Anyways, I am beyond that and due to the responses here I am rejuvenated and can't wait to play. I can't thank you guys enough.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Metabubbles 03-21-05, 05:52 PM	My DM is insisting on role-playing over hack-n-slash (our other game) which is great in my opinion. He spends a part-time job amount of time on preparing his games, everything is dialoged out and everything. Everything is original, and he is artistic which is nice. So what is the problem? There is no role-playing in it. My DM one night decided to give everybody XP for role-playing, except me, which if you can imagine burned me good. He gave extra XP to our other DM (which is a feline barbarian/rogue/something else) for tactically using a room's furniture to get better position on an NPC. In the middle of the fight he mentioned since he is multi-classing to the tactician out of the miniatures handbook (i think) he would get in better position. What, because he mentioned he is min/maxing, and he is using a room the same way anybody would he gets extra XP. The rest of the night was just hack and slash for him. I actually 'role-played' promoting my deity and spreading her name throughout the countryside, but not good enough. When I mentioned maybe we should get bonus XP for role-playing, and at the end of the night we relay to him what we thought we did for role-playing and he would give out the XP. He didn't like that idea and dropped the extra XP deal altogether. His biggest problem is that my character was similiar to my other character (in the begining, he was a charismatic sorcerer, of course they would be similiar) and he wants me to be able to distinguish between the 2. One player is the DM of our other game and a huge Min/Max player, so he likes to avoid the role-play aspect. Another player is new to the game all together (less than 6 months) but has every rule memorized. No real experience in role-playing (also likes the numbers part not the role-play part, although to his defense he hasn't had an oppurtunity to role-play). The 3rd player is the DM's wife (which in my opinion and our other DM, her character h-giant psion something is min/maxed, which our current DM doesn't believe), she is a lot of fun and more than willing to role-play. I need others to role-play to well, role-play. My original idea was to go mystic theurge, but sorcerer/cleric not wizard cleric. I am a sorcerer in our other game so it was going to be an easy transition to this game. After much pressure from the DM about skill checks etc...he advised me to go wizard, so we change mid game to wiz/cleric. That sucks for me because I wanted to use my charisma to bring people to my deity, now we changed it to int, which is good, if I min/max. So our problem becomes, she is more powerful than the rest of us, and we opt to min/max our characters, even more. My character was changed to wiz earlier so I thought I would optimize it by going geomancer. We are gestalt to begin with so this frustrates our DM, and he keeps saying is that what your 'character' would do? Now he demands we come up with role-playing aspects to our specific characters in black and white along with how 'he' the DM can use them to advance his campaign. I thought this was his game, we develop our characters he comes up with the plots, not; we develop our characters and we come up with plots. So he offers 5000xp award for the 'best' job by our next gaming session and would take XP away if we didn't do it. I literally filled out 8+pages of 'character questions' and how my character would respond. I typed up about 7 pages explaining the reason my character was a wiz/cleric, why I worship my deity (DM made up so I could have war & healing domains....yea....!!!)to why I became a Geomancer. I had to come up with some good stuff to explain why a city lover left the most advanced city in the known world (a wizard no less...) to go out into the deep dark forests. I mean I emailed it to him that night he requested it. He said it wasn't really what he was looking for???!!!??? So I researched, I found more stuff to optimize my role-playing, (I am still struggling to what he truly wants) and brought more to our role-playing session. The questionnare I found he liked so much he had me email everybody the basic one to take and fill in. My character was the only one to answer the questionnare. I am basically the only one to participate w/exclusion to the dm's wife, no idea what she did. But our other DM basically just told him the same things when he was min/maxing and it took him like 2 months to tell him just that! The other player wrote up a half page and brought it to our gaming session. WHAT!?! That's it, just a half a page. Anyways, I am struggling to accept my role as a punching bag, and not having fun everytime we play. We have taken a break for awhile now and are getting ready to get together again. If I continue not having fun do I dare say, that's it i'm done? I know I will mention I am not having fun to the DM first to hopefully inspire more friendly fun than hard core must role play or else. But if the game ceases to get any better should I quit?
Karanth 03-21-05, 06:06 PM	Tell your DM to read the first 2 chapters of the DMG. After that, he should realize that HE makes the plot, and the chars react, not the other way around. Also, XP awards for out-of-game stuff can never lead to good things. If everyone else is fine with it, and your DM isn't willing to listen, then maybe you should think of moving on.
Chandaroon 03-21-05, 11:00 PM	Where to begin.....? I really feel bad for you. 1) The DM's job... Hmm well knowing what makes your character tick is useful, but if you've been playing this character since first level then that should be apparent by now as to why your character would do something. This writing of multi page documents and questionaires is crazy. 2) I want your character history. That means as much or as little as you want to tell me. Be careful not to leave me too much lee-way, cause I'll drive a truck through it. Example : I had a fighter who left home to become this big time adventurer. My fighter wanted to be a Lord and have his own keep. He left behind him a Mother, a sister, and a dead brother, a dead father. Well my fighter was gone for 3 years when he was returning to waterdeep from an adventure, he encountered his sister, From Cormyr. She was an Evil Sorcerer. Well to make a long story short I had to kill her. This made for some interesting role-playing. My DM taught me then that he can and will use anything, so I should be careful what I put in my characters history. 3) Sounds like your DM has it in for you. I have played with the same house rule as always. Walk through the door and everything is in character. Leave all your personal bagage at the door. This is a game you are supposed to have fun. If you are not then something is wrong. 3) I like players who do stuff like promote their diety. That kind of role-playing may work out so that you end up with a follower of your own. 4) As far as needing other people to role-play. Try this out Just stay in Character all the time till they get the hint. That's my take. :)
UltimateReality 03-21-05, 11:40 PM	But if the game ceases to get any better should I quit?Yes. I really don't have much more to say than that, other than "life is too short to put up with ****** roleplaying groups, be they players or DMs". Took me two years to learn.
Metabubbles 03-22-05, 09:58 AM	Thanks first off for the immediate response and kind words. As you all probably know its nice to get something off your chest and to have people respond in kind. I think I will definitely give role-playing a chance, any hints as to what possibly my DM wants from me? Since I changed to wizard, I think I will use the whole knowledge aspect and focus on books, in game. If we happen to be at a town, I will obviously try to convert others to my deity, but will focus on research more. The DM is encouraging me to continue in Cleric and use the +1 spell caster level from geomancer to use for wizard. My turn checks etc... won't be negatively affected that way. Since I don't really do anything with my familiar I have to agree with him that way would be best. I am leaning to using create item feats, being cleric/wizard, there really shouldn't be anything I can't create. How do I stay in character the whole night? Ajit is reading! Ajit is praying! Ajit is turning! Ajit is healing! Ajit is casting fireball! It seems kind of, well, redundant and honestly boring! Ajit is headstrong, CG, and wants to wipe clean all evil existing on this known world. When Ajit says 'all foul creatures of the evil empire of ebonia should die slowly of maggot infestation' the DM asks if I really say that, because evil ears are listening. Well my character would but metagaming and after a DM hint like that, I say no. DM even tells us after gaming sessions he had to fake some rolls or we would have died. I believe that is the role-playing experience, you said this, ok certain results happen, and you learn from it. Your group tried this, one died, you must learn from it, don't tuck it away or you hinder the role-playing experience. But anyways these are but a few examples, and of course one sided, it is probably viewed a totally different way by others. I truly enjoy the people I play with, yes even the DM, it just seems in game everything changes. The new player I am hoping he gets inspired to DM, he has everything memorized, from the monster manual to the Complete warrior. Whatever book he gets his hands on I can trust him to become an expert. Should I suggest, if the game ceases to get better, we start new characters and allow him to DM? That way we keep the same group but different characters.
Thoronmir 03-22-05, 10:47 AM	First, you and your DM need to reach some agreement on a few definitions. Good tactics and min/maxed character builds are not “roleplaying.” If he thinks otherwise, he needs to explain how he’s using the term. For a DM who claims to emphasize roleplaying over hack-and-slash, he doesn’t seem to have lived up to his own billing. Second, it sounds as if he was expecting the players to cough up some plot hooks for him to use to create adventures. If so, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. So, you and he may have simply misunderstood each other. Providing the details of how your PC came to be and what motivates him to adventure are good first steps (and worthy of bonus XP in my game). But I also add some fodder for the DM … potential rivals, friends, and enemies … that he can decide whether to use or not. My last DM incorporated so many of the plot hooks from my PC’s background that I almost stopped writing backgrounds (it’s nice to have a long-lost friend or rival show up now and then … it grows wearisome when every adventure turns into “This is Your Life”). You are absolutely correct when you said that you need other roleplayers for you to roleplay. If you’re the only roleplayer at the table, it just doesn’t work. As for how to stay in character, that’s easy. Just do it. Stop thinking of Ajit as someone else. No more “Ajit is praying” … make it “I am praying.” Speak in first-person; do not try to narrate Ajit’s life … live it. Resist the urge to preface your dialogue with “I say …” or “Ajit says …” and avoid slip ups like “I tell the guard my name.” You don’t have to be Laurence Olivier to roleplay; you just need to grow accustomed to thinking and speaking in first-person voice. Once you get used to it, it’s easy to maintain all night long. Stop metagaming. But start giving thought to how Ajit would really behave. Would he care what “ears are listening” when he vows to scour all evil from the land? If he’s cautious that way, play him so … if he’s not, don’t let a “DM warning” hinder your roleplaying. BTW, tell your DM to stop metagaming so much too. If the DM asks anyone in the party “Do you really say that?” more than once each session, he’s metagaming too much. I give the players one free pass, then I assume their PCs do “say that” … then we all enjoy roleplaying the consequences of their loose tongues. If you want to salvage your situation, the best advice I can offer is to work to improve communication among the group. There seems to be a lot of confusion over what the DM expects and how the other players want to play. Ask questions until you are sure you and the DM are on the same page. Ask for specific examples if you’re not clear about what he’s asking you to do.
Metabubbles 03-22-05, 01:19 PM	Second, it sounds as if he was expecting the players to cough up some plot hooks for him to use to create adventures. If so, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. So, you and he may have simply misunderstood each other. Providing the details of how your PC came to be and what motivates him to adventure are good first steps (and worthy of bonus XP in my game). But I also add some fodder for the DM … potential rivals, friends, and enemies … that he can decide whether to use or not. My last DM incorporated so many of the plot hooks from my PC’s background that I almost stopped writing backgrounds (it’s nice to have a long-lost friend or rival show up now and then … it grows wearisome when every adventure turns into “This is Your Life”). You are absolutely correct when you said that you need other roleplayers for you to roleplay. If you’re the only roleplayer at the table, it just doesn’t work. As for how to stay in character, that’s easy. Just do it. Stop thinking of Ajit as someone else. No more “Ajit is praying” … make it “I am praying.” Speak in first-person; do not try to narrate Ajit’s life … live it. Resist the urge to preface your dialogue with “I say …” or “Ajit says …” and avoid slip ups like “I tell the guard my name.” You don’t have to be Laurence Olivier to roleplay; you just need to grow accustomed to thinking and speaking in first-person voice. Once you get used to it, it’s easy to maintain all night long. Stop metagaming. But start giving thought to how Ajit would really behave. Would he care what “ears are listening” when he vows to scour all evil from the land? If he’s cautious that way, play him so … if he’s not, don’t let a “DM warning” hinder your roleplaying. BTW, tell your DM to stop metagaming so much too. If the DM asks anyone in the party “Do you really say that?” more than once each session, he’s metagaming too much. I give the players one free pass, then I assume their PCs do “say that” … then we all enjoy roleplaying the consequences of their loose tongues. Going from Ajit to "I" is an excellent idea, it seems the most basic things can fix the most complicated situations. I guess I don't mind helping the DM with plot hooks, especially when offered a 5000xp award, however I feel I was wronged when 'no' XP was awarded. Metagaming is difficult, but to the defense of the DM maybe "I" (me not Ajit) wasn't aware of our circumstances; enemy territory, known spies, etc... Anyways, I am beyond that and due to the responses here I am rejuvenated and can't wait to play. I can't thank you guys enough.