How do you roleplay becoming a Blackguard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How do you roleplay becoming a Blackguard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Harmor
07-05-04, 06:24 PM So I'm a level 10 LG Paladin of Pelor. In character I'm happy go lucky, an instrument for my god of good in this world.

BUT out of character I want to be a Blackguard...I'm tried of being mister 'goody-tu-shoes'...I want power...I want to kill and maim...I want to be a general bad guy doing bad things.

Anyone have any ideas? I was going to approach my GM and ask him if this would be ok with him...maybe he can implement it in the party.

The rest of the part are all CN, NN Druid and a LE wizard...so if I were to shift to LE it wouldn't be ending my character's existance I would think.

Our party generally does good (because of me), but they usually get away with things behind my back and cover up their tracks so I don't know IC.

Any suggestions?
Pyriel
07-05-04, 06:40 PM do something to loose you paladin hood....kill somebody for no reason or do something unlawly.

and if you read the special in the prereqs for blackguard it says you have to have made a peaceful contact with an evil outsider who was summoned by or someone else to have contracted the taint of true evil.

so you might wanna progress a little bit further till you can do that. id suggest converting after 11th lvl so you can get nice specials
Jolvar
07-05-04, 06:45 PM How did you come to accept a LE wizard in your team ?
Jolvar
07-05-04, 07:20 PM If you want to be a blackguard, try to make it with class and dignity.
A blackguard is evil, sure, but he's still proud of himself and a knight in his way. The code of conduct is just different by being the opposite.

Killing somebody without any reason ain't a good idea. You just lower yourself at the same level of a no brain chaotic evil beast. How impressive...

Killing is for your siblings and slaves. Your main weapon is fear.

Here's my suggestions to incline toward this class :

1- Get interested in any subject speaking of planar creatures and the planes of existence. Try to get the skill knowledge (planes) and have some points in knowledge (religion). Know all the gods, good, evil and neutral.

This knowledge will prepare the terrain for a possible future contact with an outsider. You'll know what you'll be facing.

In game, this gives no clue about your out-of-game desire yet.
That's what we want.

2- Follow your paladin code of conduct to the strict letter, and in all cases that it could lower your power and make your character loose something dear to him or an action that could give you much sorrow, ALWAYS try to do it to encourage the event.

What I mean is playing your paladin in accepting any extreme fate or any condition that fulfill his paladin duty but can results in mental or physical pain. The emphasis should be put in the mental pain.

Do everything except self sacrifice resulting in permanent death.

You may have to discuss with your DM at this point to explain your behavior if he has any questions about it. If anything goes well, you won't have to.

3- Now that your paladin is enduring so much doing his duty, the time is to gather everything and make him meditate about it.
The pain must be of importance and dramatic to make the roleplay good and justify the switch. You may require the help of the DM at this stage to build something of this level of drama.

4- If step 3 was well completed, this step is the one where you realize what you've done and how you've been tortured and tricked.
They used your body and soul to do their will. They didn't mind breaking you at any opportunity to further their cause. They didn't really care for your very person. Their crusade was more important.

You reject. You rebel. You're alone and no more faith.
In your soul it's dark and cold.

But your pain and raging yell is not unheard...

One will come to speak and offer.
This time, you'll put your conditions and have a deal.
You'll be a blackguard.

Leaving the past behind, as an old scar which no magic will ever be able to heal, only your inner rage being able to contain and ease.
Draconae
07-05-04, 10:02 PM Well you could play your paladin as he is for a little while longer, keeping more and more to the code of conduct until it finally drives him insane.
Or his family might be killed right before his eyes and he goes insane.
Or you could start to question the actual point of continually fighting evil when it would be much easier to become evil yourself...
Or you get captured by an evil person and they torture the goodness out of you, in the metaphorical sense of course.
Thorak
07-05-04, 10:51 PM IMHO, there's no way to deliberately plan for your character to become a blackguard. You should be playing the character 'properly', meaning being true to his inner self, and if his inner self isn't entirely dedicated to paladin-ness, he wouldn't have received the calling in the first place.

That said, if you as a player want it, and the opportunity arises properly, by all means take it. I'm running a paladin currently, who I plan to take into Kensai at 6th level. He's got issues, he's fairly arrogant and impulsive, but has had the crap beat out of him consistently for doing the 'right' thing. And, at the moment, there's one NPC, a village barmaid, who seems to see what he's sacrificing for everyone else's benefit. If she dies, and everyone keeps on with the "Well, but you're a paladin, that's your schtick" bit, he's probably going to get fed up and Fall. At which point, he's going to be open to a new path; I'm currently planning on Kensai, because he hasn't had reason to Fall and Kensai won't require it, but Blackguard would be an option if things go just 'right'. We even seem to have the kinds of enemies that would encourage it. And he's arrogant and impulsive enough, and both smart enough to come up with the plot and self-confident enough to think he can pull it off, to take power they might offer him, and turn it against them. After all, why let them destroy the world and kill all the people, when he can seize power, destroy them first, and then rule as a mostly benevolent dictator in their place? :smirk:
Edward
07-06-04, 12:01 AM Well a benevolent dictatorship is one of the more stable forms of government. No changes of policies every few years. Stability and enough freedom that the population don’t get upset. Its only because there is nobody on this earth I trust to do the job right (ie be benevolent) that I prefer democracy.

Now it isn’t to much of a stretch for a paladin to think he is right for the job. A few mistakes along the way a little vanity wobble across the line kill your political enemies and you are a black guard.

Edward
flexinex
07-06-04, 09:02 AM well in the campain i was in i was a wizard who was strongly leaning towards evil, and i kept pushing our paladin to do stuff he didnt really wanted to do, and tricked him to do bad things and in the end she turned aand became a blackguard...
Beamup
07-06-04, 09:11 AM Step 1 is to find some Evil aspect of your character's personality that he's been suppressing in the name of Doing What's Right. Maybe he has a short temper. Or he's inclined towards making certain evildoers won't remain a threat, by killing them no matter what, even if they surrender.

Start dropping suggestions about this in-character. Maybe he gets mad at somebody, pulls out his sword, advances, then gets ahold of himself and backs off. That sort of thing. This could be as extended as you like.

At an opportune time, when the PC is really pushed too far (talking with the DM to make sure such a circumstance will occur is a good idea), lose it. Follow your impulses instead of the CoC. Say, this time don't get ahold of yourself, and go ahead and kill the guy. You just Fell.

This is the second part that can be extended if you want. Feel guilty about what you've done and seek atonement... but deep down, you know it felt good, and you want more. You can easily produce a cycle of striving for atonement, even achieving it temporarily, before backsliding again.

Eventually, the joys of Evil have become sufficiently familiar that you just abandon Good altogether. Now's the point where you need that contact with an evil outsider - work with your DM to set that up. Blackguard, here you come...

The key is to roleplay out a gradual fall to Evil, setting up why this is happening. Sure, you could just wake up one day and go on a homicidal rampage, but that's just pure cheese. Work with it in character.
Thermanshs
07-06-04, 09:15 AM Excelent post Jolvar.
Agreed with all he said especially with the opposition of: kill to be evil. Many people tie evil with slaughter bla...bla but it's not just this...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harmor 07-05-04, 06:24 PM	So I'm a level 10 LG Paladin of Pelor. In character I'm happy go lucky, an instrument for my god of good in this world. BUT out of character I want to be a Blackguard...I'm tried of being mister 'goody-tu-shoes'...I want power...I want to kill and maim...I want to be a general bad guy doing bad things. Anyone have any ideas? I was going to approach my GM and ask him if this would be ok with him...maybe he can implement it in the party. The rest of the part are all CN, NN Druid and a LE wizard...so if I were to shift to LE it wouldn't be ending my character's existance I would think. Our party generally does good (because of me), but they usually get away with things behind my back and cover up their tracks so I don't know IC. Any suggestions?
Pyriel 07-05-04, 06:40 PM	do something to loose you paladin hood....kill somebody for no reason or do something unlawly. and if you read the special in the prereqs for blackguard it says you have to have made a peaceful contact with an evil outsider who was summoned by or someone else to have contracted the taint of true evil. so you might wanna progress a little bit further till you can do that. id suggest converting after 11th lvl so you can get nice specials
Jolvar 07-05-04, 06:45 PM	How did you come to accept a LE wizard in your team ?
Jolvar 07-05-04, 07:20 PM	If you want to be a blackguard, try to make it with class and dignity. A blackguard is evil, sure, but he's still proud of himself and a knight in his way. The code of conduct is just different by being the opposite. Killing somebody without any reason ain't a good idea. You just lower yourself at the same level of a no brain chaotic evil beast. How impressive... Killing is for your siblings and slaves. Your main weapon is fear. Here's my suggestions to incline toward this class : 1- Get interested in any subject speaking of planar creatures and the planes of existence. Try to get the skill knowledge (planes) and have some points in knowledge (religion). Know all the gods, good, evil and neutral. This knowledge will prepare the terrain for a possible future contact with an outsider. You'll know what you'll be facing. In game, this gives no clue about your out-of-game desire yet. That's what we want. 2- Follow your paladin code of conduct to the strict letter, and in all cases that it could lower your power and make your character loose something dear to him or an action that could give you much sorrow, ALWAYS try to do it to encourage the event. What I mean is playing your paladin in accepting any extreme fate or any condition that fulfill his paladin duty but can results in mental or physical pain. The emphasis should be put in the mental pain. Do everything except self sacrifice resulting in permanent death. You may have to discuss with your DM at this point to explain your behavior if he has any questions about it. If anything goes well, you won't have to. 3- Now that your paladin is enduring so much doing his duty, the time is to gather everything and make him meditate about it. The pain must be of importance and dramatic to make the roleplay good and justify the switch. You may require the help of the DM at this stage to build something of this level of drama. 4- If step 3 was well completed, this step is the one where you realize what you've done and how you've been tortured and tricked. They used your body and soul to do their will. They didn't mind breaking you at any opportunity to further their cause. They didn't really care for your very person. Their crusade was more important. You reject. You rebel. You're alone and no more faith. In your soul it's dark and cold. But your pain and raging yell is not unheard... One will come to speak and offer. This time, you'll put your conditions and have a deal. You'll be a blackguard. Leaving the past behind, as an old scar which no magic will ever be able to heal, only your inner rage being able to contain and ease.
Draconae 07-05-04, 10:02 PM	Well you could play your paladin as he is for a little while longer, keeping more and more to the code of conduct until it finally drives him insane. Or his family might be killed right before his eyes and he goes insane. Or you could start to question the actual point of continually fighting evil when it would be much easier to become evil yourself... Or you get captured by an evil person and they torture the goodness out of you, in the metaphorical sense of course.
Thorak 07-05-04, 10:51 PM	IMHO, there's no way to deliberately plan for your character to become a blackguard. You should be playing the character 'properly', meaning being true to his inner self, and if his inner self isn't entirely dedicated to paladin-ness, he wouldn't have received the calling in the first place. That said, if you as a player want it, and the opportunity arises properly, by all means take it. I'm running a paladin currently, who I plan to take into Kensai at 6th level. He's got issues, he's fairly arrogant and impulsive, but has had the crap beat out of him consistently for doing the 'right' thing. And, at the moment, there's one NPC, a village barmaid, who seems to see what he's sacrificing for everyone else's benefit. If she dies, and everyone keeps on with the "Well, but you're a paladin, that's your schtick" bit, he's probably going to get fed up and Fall. At which point, he's going to be open to a new path; I'm currently planning on Kensai, because he hasn't had reason to Fall and Kensai won't require it, but Blackguard would be an option if things go just 'right'. We even seem to have the kinds of enemies that would encourage it. And he's arrogant and impulsive enough, and both smart enough to come up with the plot and self-confident enough to think he can pull it off, to take power they might offer him, and turn it against them. After all, why let them destroy the world and kill all the people, when he can seize power, destroy them first, and then rule as a mostly benevolent dictator in their place? :smirk:
Edward 07-06-04, 12:01 AM	Well a benevolent dictatorship is one of the more stable forms of government. No changes of policies every few years. Stability and enough freedom that the population don’t get upset. Its only because there is nobody on this earth I trust to do the job right (ie be benevolent) that I prefer democracy. Now it isn’t to much of a stretch for a paladin to think he is right for the job. A few mistakes along the way a little vanity wobble across the line kill your political enemies and you are a black guard. Edward
flexinex 07-06-04, 09:02 AM	well in the campain i was in i was a wizard who was strongly leaning towards evil, and i kept pushing our paladin to do stuff he didnt really wanted to do, and tricked him to do bad things and in the end she turned aand became a blackguard...
Beamup 07-06-04, 09:11 AM	Step 1 is to find some Evil aspect of your character's personality that he's been suppressing in the name of Doing What's Right. Maybe he has a short temper. Or he's inclined towards making certain evildoers won't remain a threat, by killing them no matter what, even if they surrender. Start dropping suggestions about this in-character. Maybe he gets mad at somebody, pulls out his sword, advances, then gets ahold of himself and backs off. That sort of thing. This could be as extended as you like. At an opportune time, when the PC is really pushed too far (talking with the DM to make sure such a circumstance will occur is a good idea), lose it. Follow your impulses instead of the CoC. Say, this time don't get ahold of yourself, and go ahead and kill the guy. You just Fell. This is the second part that can be extended if you want. Feel guilty about what you've done and seek atonement... but deep down, you know it felt good, and you want more. You can easily produce a cycle of striving for atonement, even achieving it temporarily, before backsliding again. Eventually, the joys of Evil have become sufficiently familiar that you just abandon Good altogether. Now's the point where you need that contact with an evil outsider - work with your DM to set that up. Blackguard, here you come... The key is to roleplay out a gradual fall to Evil, setting up why this is happening. Sure, you could just wake up one day and go on a homicidal rampage, but that's just pure cheese. Work with it in character.
Thermanshs 07-06-04, 09:15 AM	Excelent post Jolvar. Agreed with all he said especially with the opposition of: kill to be evil. Many people tie evil with slaughter bla...bla but it's not just this...