Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mordelacke 04-05-04, 03:01 PM	I am trying to find a nice structure to run these in, and thought i would ask you all to see how you go about planning/running one of these. What do you use as hooks? how do you give clues to hopefully lead the party along the right path? how do you make sure you dont give to big of a clue? what do you do if you give to small of a clue? what do you do if the party never finds a certain clue? do you use many npcs so that the party cant quickly pinpoint who did it? how do you make it fun and interesting if the party just wants to use augury or speak with dead or any other divination spells that would pretty run the fun of following the clues? since they have to follow the clues to get from A to Z how do you do all this and still make it freeflowing and run by character choice?
Orcy The Green Wonder 04-05-04, 03:08 PM	Hmm.. for the divination stuff, I would say put them on a boat that has a antimagic aura. That would make it so no suspects could simply run away and they would be trapped on a ship with a murderer.
hecate 04-06-04, 04:15 AM	What do you use as hooks? The classics work well: "it was a dark and stormy night," PCs set up and proving innocence, PCs hired to solve the the mysteries, PCs feel compelled to solve the mystery (death of an ally, family member, etc.), or other. How do you give clues to hopefully lead the party along the right path? Planning and plotting, and, above all else, be flexible. How do you make sure you dont give to big of a clue? and What do you do if you give to small of a clue? Two good, and very difficult, questions. First, just be prepared to flip the scenario a little if you do give too big a clue. I guess this goes back to the prior answer: be flexible. "To small a clues" are either going to work themselves out (the player's won't catch on or won't care). Additionally, most clues should be pretty small. If they are all blatant or pointed, then it is not much of a mystery as it is a "lead-by-the-nose" sessions. I would advice you avoid this. What do you do if the party never finds a certain clue? Not your problem. Your job is explain the world as it is, not what Columbo or Sherlock Holmes tell player's it is. If the clue is that pivotal, then have an NPC bring them back to it or point it out, or have it reoccur (if it is not too obvious that is what you're doing). Do you use many npcs so that the party cant quickly pinpoint who did it? Depends on the mystery style. If the mystery revolves around a corpse the players come across, then multiple NPCs may not be needed. Simple finding out whodunit is enough. If it is a large metropolitan, or revolving around a sickly king (who poisoned him? gasp), then multiple NPCs could not hurt - but mainly will act as red herrings. How do you make it fun and interesting if the party just wants to use augury or speak with dead or any other divination spells that would pretty run the fun of following the clues? Augury only gives the "weal or woe" answer and is not suitable for mystery questions. Speak with Dead only works if the dead wish to speak... or can. The mystery could take on a whole nother dimension here - the recently deceased may be victim of a Magic Jar or maybe being held captive on a plane that does not allow cross-dimensional communication. The divinations will be your biggest threat. Just play 'em smart. Detecting Evil does not necessarily mean that the evil guy did it. Maybe it was the LN guy who felt that the dicissions his boss was making was hurting the knigdom, and he is battling his own insurrection. (In this scenario, Sense Motive would be better than most divining spells.) Detect Thoughts will be problem, but it only allows for surface thoughts. Trained assassins in a high magic campaign, it is realtively fair to say, may have trained thier minds to "wander" or the killer (thief or kidnapper) may not feel that thier is any need to dwell on thier actions. Since they have to follow the clues to get from A to Z how do you do all this and still make it freeflowing and run by character choice? I hit on this one earlier, but it warrants elaboration. Do not ever lead the characters by the nose. It is not roleplaying then... of course, you will have to set up clues and dilemmas for them to come across, but you do not have to tell them where to go to find these clues. The players may surprise you with thier own innovation when dealing with the mystery... let them... and be flexible.
Aranamarunda 04-06-04, 04:32 AM	While planning your plot, pretend (only in your mind) that you are the killer. Imagine how you whould do it, which steps you whould take. When you're done, you should retrace your steps and find out what traces/clues you could have left behind. This way they'll be realisticaly. Finally replace yourself with a NPC and you're done. (well, almost)
Lord of the Pebble 04-06-04, 04:38 AM	While planning your plot, pretend (only in your mind) that you are the killer. Imagine how you whould do it, which steps you whould take. When you're done, you should retrace your steps and find out what traces/clues you could have left behind. This way they'll be realisticaly. Finally replace yourself with a NPC and you're done. (well, almost)
mordelacke 04-07-04, 11:29 AM	thank you for all the tips/ideas so far, they are well thought out and useful. anybody have more to say? examples? ect?
KAPtain Braindead 04-08-04, 02:25 AM	There is a way to prevent divination spells. Have the setting be in an area where magic spells are outlawed or tabboo (i.e. in a temple devoted to a god of secrets or mysteries, a barbarian encampment, etc). Also, remember to make several skill checks for the knowledge (local) and gather information skills. A bard in the party with the knowledge (local) will give the backgrounds and personalities of the prime suspects.
ck2001wendt 04-08-04, 12:32 PM	Ugh...I just spent 9 sessions running a "murder mystery." Or more properly, a "crime procedure" mystery. The PCs needed to figure out who hired the assasins to go after them, and the assasins agreed to tell them...but only if they could figure out who has been killing the assasins in the seedy port city they're all in. What do you use as hooks? See above...one way is to make it worth their while. Have someone "hire" them, either for information, gold, or items. how do you give clues to hopefully lead the party along the right path? This is extremely hard, because you have to create a much richer world than normal. In my adventure, players were coming up with all kinds of ways to figure stuff out or track people down (most of which went nowhere, like when members of factions besides the assassins started losing members, and the PCs went around trying to get the story on a victim's gambling debt). You have to be able to anticipate potential lines of investigation, or be willing to make up on the spot the NPCs or methods used to figure out what's up with a particular clue. how do you make sure you dont give to big of a clue? Map everything out beforehand. EVERYTHING. Who is your cast? How many crimes will there be? What are the motives? What do I want the characters to find? How far will this go to breaking the case, or to pushing them to another encounter? what do you do if you give to small of a clue? Never give a clue that doesn't lead somewhere, even if it's just to the alchemist's shop, where he tells you where the mud you found by the victim is usually found. what do you do if the party never finds a certain clue? Never assume your party will find a certain clue. In my experience, most players in D&D have a horrible time with lateral/critical thinking (not hard to understand, since they're under a constant time constraint...the end of the session). Most parties are much better at tactics, or assume game mechanics (track, Detect Undead) will solve everything. That's why you leave multiple ways to reach the same path. My party missed the crucial evidence needed to connect the crimes to the BBEG, so I had the bad guy provoke them by controlling one of the party; the PC could "hear" the telepathic voice of the BBEG. The quickest way to pick the trail back up is to have the bad guys commit another crime. Of course, I also docked them Quest XP for having to lead them to the solution. Do you use many npcs so that the party cant quickly pinpoint who did it? Yes; multiple factions, multiple motivations, multiple suspects. One way to do it is to not even introduce the BBEG until the 2nd Act. The players didn't even meet my BBEG until a week IG in the adventure, and even then it was an incidental meet at a Council meeting, then a party he threw. Spoofing Divination: 2nd level spell Misdirection. 3rd level spell Non-Detection. Or magic items of such. Make the Div spells they need too hard to get (no Wizards of that level in the city). If the BBEG is a noble, requesting that they submit to "Zone of Truth" or "Det Evil" is going to be a grave insult. Make sure they request that any testing be done by a 3rd party...then have them Dominate that 3rd party. Clerics and Paladins are incredibly tricky for these adventures because they are built to cut through motivations quickly; "he's evil, he's not, because my divine powers told me so."
Jacob W. Michaels 04-13-04, 01:45 AM	Definitely be prepared for players to do something you don't expect. They may easily fixate on a red herring or go somewhere you don't expect. That's where flexibility can come in. Have a bunch of other names planned so it doesn't look like you're picking one at random (as that's an obvious clue that the character wasn't created ahead of time and thus isn't important). Plan for various people around the "stars" of your mystery -- guards, aides, lovers, etc. Think about how they'd react to various scenarios the players may try. I like a time limit -- otherwise there may be no end to the mystery if they can't figure it out. It also adds more pressure to their deliberations -- they know they only get so many chances to figure out what's going on. It also provides a natural ending if they can't figure it out so if they get frustrated, it won't last forever. I also think limiting the space, if possible, helps as it narrows the field of investigations. I once did a muder mystery where the killing took place at the end of a snowy evening in a barn outside an inn. Two sets of tracks led from the inn to the barn, only one led back -- meaning the players knew one of the inn patrons was the culprit. (The time limit can define the area as well -- if they PCs don't have enough time to get to another city, they're basically forced to eliminate that from their search.) Plan for clue redundancy. I prefer to have smaller clues. If they don't pick it up, the clue can be repeated later on (perhaps more obviously) and hopefully they'll pick it up then. Also, be prepared for PCs to completely and repeatedly miss clues, even when you think they're blatantly obvious. (In the last murder mystery I ran, the PCs met the killer early on, but they never ended up making the leap from the fact the guard had owed this guy a lot of money and then didn't the day after the murder to him being involved.) Jacob
Noriass Gato 04-26-04, 12:53 PM	What do you use as hooks? Promises of wealth (material and magical) work most times, only if your PC arent swimming into gold... Other that that, a plea from someone they hold dear (not every group will have this). Even just a old-as-time "Brave men needed. Inquiry at Joes" note on post at central market square... how do you give clues to hopefully lead the party along the right path? how do you make sure you dont give to big of a clue? what do you do if you give to small of a clue? what do you do if the party never finds a certain clue? Nothing can be helped here but to just try. Read a lot of detective novels (Conan Doile, Agatha Christi, stories about Nero Wolf and many others. Lots of new bestsellers work as well) for an example of crime... Better try to give out too little, that too much. Lots of fingerpointing as well. Recently, i gave my party a few free days and a body they found swimming face down into port. A day old, so that even port authority decided they being innocent. Having nothing better to do (theyr ship was leaving in 2 days) they decided to investigate. While checking body, they got two hints (shattered arm, and face in agony) from three, but dismissed one of them ( the agony). They met with guy's father, and i gave them three more leads - suicide note (too well forged, and they didnt ask for handwriting samples to compare with, but they decided it forget since shattered bones in hand), place where he lived, and name of his friend. They checked bars around looking for more info about the guy, then went to pay a visit to the guy's room mate at local studying house. Roommate led them on merry chase thry campus, that ended predictably with a bull tackle from party barbarian. They escaped before enraged professors arrived to ask about smashed laboratory the barbarians went thry... They shook some info out of roommate, basically, that the guy was known for gambling, and oved lots of money to the local underground dealers - about same they had got from gathering info, only more detailed. Party put together this, the shattered bones in guy's hand, suicide note father shown them and decided it was a local crime boss who ordered guy killed. They missed lot of clues, and well, got experience only for catching level 1 commoner, and for a real good roleplaying, but the quest exp stayed untouched... since, the local crime bos was innocent on this murder... So basically, if they miss some clues, its their own fault. Now they are on a ship out in the open sea, three days away form port, and morning starts with screams of murder. Seems, their captain is dead, and lots of people on the ship may have wished the old man wasted. They arent on big friends with the crew, in fact, they (at least in crew's eyes) cheated on the friendly fist match last evening, and before that there was some misunderstandings as well. So the first thing one does is grabbing shipboy by ear and starting to twist it, screaming for him to cionfess (they think shipboy was last who saw captain, as he brought him the dinner last evening). Besides that, there's first mate, who will take over the ship after this travel. Some of crew, who are gamblers, some old geezer that talks a lot about times past, captain's widow (they were to settle on the port of arrival together) and a prisoner in the hold, that was to be delivered... Nive setup. PC's are unconspicuously sharpening weapons for beating a mutiny... *insert evil GM laugh here* do you use many npcs so that the party cant quickly pinpoint who did it? That's the idea. Of course, sometimes its also the just one guy, but they must have solid evidence for his misdeeds, not just hints, and magic not always work - 'you just charmed him to say that confessions instead of zone of truth!' how do you make it fun and interesting if the party just wants to use augury or speak with dead or any other divination spells that would pretty run the fun of following the clues? Be prepared and read all the spells before hand and prepare answers to them. Speak with dead - Q "Ok, did you see who killed you?" A1 "I was hit in back" A2 "It was dark" A3 "Nobody was here" A4 "I just suddenly lost my breath..." Augury - Remember its just 'weal' or 'woe', and there are no straight answers. Other divinations can be done as well, just remember if party is high level they will solve common murder easily. One done with magic and conspiracy, now the opponets are same level, and maybe a lot higher, they have some magical argumewnts against divination as well... since they have to follow the clues to get from A to Z how do you do all this and still make it freeflowing and run by character choice? Throw away A-Z chart :D Really, make a list of events of what is gonna happen and when, if PC do not intervene. Make some as answers to the PC most obvious reactions. Make some small 'what i can and wont do' charts for named NPC to give you some base if PC do something you did not prepare to (and trust me, they will surprise you). If you can, chech some of "Penumbra" series adventures. "Three days to kill", "Last dance", "In the belly of Beast", "Ebon Mirror" and "Maiden voyage" will give you a good look at this.
ORC_Tuhteth 04-26-04, 04:55 PM	How do I run my mystery adventures? Simple: I fake it. :) ================ 1) Background: Have a good setting with some interesting characters. A "closed" setting (on board a ship, on an isolated island, inside a locked mansion, etc.) is nice if you're going for the classic murder mystery feel, plus it restricts the possibilities and keeps the PCs from going nuts trying to solve it. ("I've got it!! Aliens abducted the murder victim, and this is a clone!!!!") 2) Hook: Come up with any hook at all -- a body is discovered, people are disappearing, the crown jewels are missing, etc. 2a) Get the PCs involved any way that you want. (Example: In a game I ran years ago, one of the PCs met and flirted with an NPC met in a tavern -- and then the NPC turns up dead, and the PC was the last one seen with her.) 3) Clues: Here's the best part: Make up a handful of random details. Just a few things that should be immediately obvious upon even a casual inspection of the crime scene. (Body over here, blood over there, etc.) The key at this step is don't over think it, and above all don't actually go to the trouble of coming up with the way the crime actually happened. :) 4) Listen to the PCs: Encourage them to talk among themselves. Let them brainstorm. Help them brainstorm. Over the course of the session, they will make up several alternative solutions to the same mystery, complete with red herrings. In other words, you let the PCs come up with the plot for you! :D 5) More clues: Make them ask specific questions -- ask them what they're looking for, and why. Example: PC: "I inspect the door to the room." DM: "Okay. What are you looking for?" PC: "I want to see if there are smudges of blood on the doorknob." DM: "Why?" PC: "Because if there isn't blood, then the murderer either went out the window (meaning we should check over there next) or was wearing gloves and took them off here in the room (meaning we should search for those next)." DM: "Very good! Strangely, there is no blood on the doorknob." 5a) This also covers divination spells. Make them ask specific questions and have them give you justification. It works the same way -- just keep track of it so you don't give an answer that you later have to contradict. (Or if you do, come up with a good reason why!) 5b) If the players ever ask why you want them to explain their questions ("Why ask why?"), just say something like this: "I want to make sure everyone is on the same page so I don't have each of you asking redundant questions." Or this: "If I know why you're looking for it, I'll know if there are any related clues that you would notice." 6) Eventually, they've put together an entire story for you. I find that the best way to do it is to follow one of their theories for a while, then switch off to a different theory. Because they thought of all these possibilities on their own, they'll have no trouble switching gears and re-analyzing their other ideas. ================= The best part about this? When the players solve the mystery and the adventure ends, they invariably tell me what an incredible story it was and how they can't believe they solved it. In other words, the fact that you're not leading them from clue to clue -- in fact, you don't HAVE clues -- makes it feel real. Things feel more organic. Clues feel more relevant. And their theories always feel important. Now, given all that, here's fair warning: Don't try this unless you're a relatively good improvisational actor -- you have to make up NPCs and motivations on the fly, quite often -- and unless you've watched enough crime dramas and other mysteries to be able to come up with reasonable and logical clues off the top of your head. :)
elf killer 32 04-26-04, 10:17 PM	Well as a hook I usually have the murder happen close enough to the PC's vicinity so they can here the dieing scream. In any case, I run my adventures by giving th PC's a whole range of options, usually suggested to them by NPC's under the initial investigation or a gathering angry mob,(mobs are a great way to add even more tenstion, since your not only looking for the murderer, but trying to stop the townsfolk from lynching the innocent.) As for clues, I try to have each clue lead to the solving of the mystery, but in a different way. That way I can avoid rail roading. If they miss a really important clue though, I usually have multiple NPC's hint at it through the course of the investigation. Sort of railroading, so I try to keep it to a minumoun.