Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fredbobberty 11-16-06, 02:12 AM	I recently rolled up an Aasimar warmage and while considering my options, I asked my DM if it was ok to play an evil character. He agreed and as of now, I've decided to play a lawful evil warmage. Apparently word got to another of my gaming friends and he spent about 15 minutes berating my choice and trying to explain why I shouldn't play an evil character. Aside from angering me, this "lecture" made me more adamant than ever to test out playing an evil character to expand my horizons in gaming. I was wondering if anybody had any good pointers on how to play an evil character because I want to play my character well. I was also wondering if I should switch my alignment to Neutral evil or chaotic evil with the decision of a warmage. Again, I would just prefer tips on how to play evil well as I would love to show up my friends and play an evil character. Thanks! p.s. I have looked through the thread Evil Characters with Flare and I didn't read through the whole thread so I may have missed some stuff...if I did miss some good pointers, you can bring them to my attention!
Gauze Fireforge 11-16-06, 02:36 AM	I recently rolled up an Aasimar warmage and while considering my options, I asked my DM if it was ok to play an evil character. He agreed and as of now, I've decided to play a lawful evil warmage. Apparently word got to another of my gaming friends and he spent about 15 minutes berating my choice and trying to explain why I shouldn't play an evil character. Aside from angering me, this "lecture" made me more adamant than ever to test out playing an evil character to expand my horizons in gaming. I was wondering if anybody had any good pointers on how to play an evil character because I want to play my character well. I was also wondering if I should switch my alignment to Neutral evil or chaotic evil with the decision of a warmage. Again, I would just prefer tips on how to play evil well as I would love to show up my friends and play an evil character. Thanks! p.s. I have looked through the thread Evil Characters with Flare and I didn't read through the whole thread so I may have missed some stuff...if I did miss some good pointers, you can bring them to my attention! The crux of playing evil (and believe me it is quite possible) is to have goals which are in line with the goals of the party. Also, dont play evil in a group consisting of primarily good characters, particularily a paladin. The evil games I have run in the past have been great and offer a great dynamic only as long as the whole group's aims run parrallel to one another. If you (or your DM) can develop a background which the other PC's recognise as you being trustworthy towards the group, you should have few problems. Whilst being good will lead to less problems than being evil, problems are what you make of them and can lead to fun and interesting situations. Good luck to you, I am confident people will flame you for being evil and d&d isn't about being evil and so on but BS I say, Go for it!
DarkRhystar 11-16-06, 02:42 AM	One way (of many) to think about playing an evil character is to focus on your methodology of solving problems. Good characters will take the well-being of others into consideration when making decisions. Evil characters will often only take the most expedient or most rewarding path. If the goal is to defeat someone who has taken hostages, the good character would work to ensure the hostages weren't harmed. The evil character wouldn't care. They're not his problem. He takes care of business his way. If people get in the way, well too bad for them. This doesn't mean you act stupidly, just that you have no aversion to being particularly ruthless in your tactics. In this way, evil characters can actually be good for a party to have. Where a good character would hesitate, an evil character's looser morals would allow him/her to get the job done.
Elemental_Elf 11-16-06, 02:46 AM	Well evil is a relatively relative term. If you're playing in a world like Eberron then Evil could simply mean you're self absorbed and sorta cruel. If you're playing traditional/core D&D then Evil typically means you're willing to do anything and everything to secure your desires. Now a Lawful Evil character would, in Eberron, prolly be a normal character with a little too much self preservation motives (i.e. not going in to a room first, fleeing or backing away at the first sign of heavy resistance, etc.) as well as being rather cold to the troubles of others (i.e. you could care less if the King's daughter was kidnapped, that is unless the king makes you care (whether by Money, torture, threat of death, etc.) or perhaps you don't willingly attack enemies attacking your allies unless they're under heavy resistance and/or you wish them to survive). In traditional D&D you'd prolly be pegged as a self serving arse hole who doesn't care for the party unless you happen to care and/or help out of necessity. Essentially do as you would under Eberron but take it to an extreme. oh, and may i say the idea of a L/E Aasimar Warmage is quite unique in my book! :D
PiedmonSama 11-16-06, 03:36 AM	Playing an evil character is, honestly, not all that different from playing a good character. Just like "good" people, "evil" people have ambitions, hopes, fears, and personal taboos. Just because your stat sheet says "evil" doesn't mean your character is utterly reprehensible--give him some morals he holds dear. He also has a family, and again, just because his stat sheet says "evil" doesn't mean he can't love them. But of course, your character is in the balance evil. This basically means he is willing to do things good people are not. Perhaps your character is a patriotic citizen of his nation, but he is willing to do anything---anything---to ensure its safety. Otherwise though, he's a fairly nice guy. Maybe he thinks of the defense of his nation and the defense of his family in the same breath, so again, he'll do anything to protect his parents and younger siblings. Maybe he wants to go a step further than just defense, and thinks all the orcs, goblins, foreigners, and other "potential threats" to his country and family should be exterminated so they're never a threat again. The great thing about ideas like that is that your character doesn't have to view himself as evil at all. In his own mind, he's a patriot, a family-man, and a devoted defender. Those who are too soft to protect their homes--i.e, those who espouse "mercy" and "tolerance"---belong behind the front lines, with the womenfolk. All that said, don't make your character unfriendly to the point where no one would want to work with him. Your fellow players will know, out-of-game, you are playing an evil character, and they just might be waiting for any old excuse to rush you. Don't give them any justification. Make your character a team player (most Lawful Evil people are) and hide his evil actions behind practiced ettiquette. Hope my rambling helps! And don't let anyone dissuade you, if this is the character you want to play. In the hands of a mature player who knows what he's doing, an evil character can be as helpful in the game as any good-aligned teammate.
DrMorganes 11-16-06, 03:42 AM	Keep in mind that almost no truly evil person ever considers themselves to be evil. They typically see themselves as serving the greater good. "Society" will be better off for their actions, and they are unwilling to allow the short-sightedness of others stand in the way of something that will obviously benefit the world. To an evil person, the end justifies the means. If obliterating an entire population will make the world a better place, so be it. Don't be bothered by the nay-sayers yammering on about "genocide" and "wholesale slaughter". After all, one cannot make an omlet without breaking a few eggs. History will be your judge, and you'll laugh at them from on high. Evil is self-serving. YOU and your desires are the most important thing in the world. The world WILL see it your way, or they will fall before your blade. Evil is NOT stupid. That is, truly evil villains understand the value of others. This value is generally limited to "tool" or "pawn", but there is value nontheless. Evil can and will work with Good (the saps); in fact, there are times when such collaboration is absolutely necessary to achieve one's plans. However, once one's position is secure those who helped achieve that security are likely a threat and should be properly disposed... Evil PCs do NOT slaughter every commoner they see just because they can. Such will certainly draw unnecessary attention and thereby complicate reaching one's goals. Only evil Outsiders (and even then only the minor ones) and madmen would consider slaughter to be a worthy goal.
Endarire 11-16-06, 04:04 AM	Evil exists because it is intelligent; good can get by with being dumb. -EE
RodinGates 11-16-06, 02:50 PM	The one thing I find a little odd in all this is that you've chosen an Aasimar as an evil character. While I certainly won't deny the possibility as their alignment is not fixed I would definitely suggest ensuring that your backstory supports or explains why your character is evil as aasimars themselves tend to be compulsively good. One suggestion I can think of is that since aasimars are also somewhat misunderstood and isolated by others perhaps his/her isolation led to a detrimental outlook regarding others or perhaps his view of what is good was simply warped by his upbringing and so while he believes he is doing good he is really comitting evil acts. All in all I think that if you really want to play this character you should do so but do try to make sure he makes sense.
pita 11-16-06, 03:15 PM	An evil Aasimar. No offense, but the idea has been heard. I once played an LE assassin. His goals were simple: Stop the lich. He was brilliant, fast, a good talker, but ruthless. He saw murder as an answer to his problems. He would make sure people knew that he killed the people he killed, using the nickname "The Bringer" . He got into a rage whenever a thief would try using his signature. In the end, he defeated the lich, a greater evil than himself, by using a paladin pawn of his to find the phylactery. Now, he was definitely evil. He was a changeling, and he changed into the forms of people to get in and get out of murder sites. He would kill without compunction. Sure, he fought against a lich. The reason? The lich was going to have control over his nation. He destroyed the lich for the greater good, but meaning it because the lich would surely involve more detection to find him. He was methodical with his killing (Always with his dagger, which he engraved with the words "Bringer of Death". At every murder he would get the dagger red hot, and press it into the dead person's skin, leaving the words written there), and he had a master who he obeyed (And eventually, when he became CE realising his master was actually another lich, who was steering him to kill his political enemies, destroyed). Now, as long if the paladin gets trigger happy, you still have the good subtype(I think) because you're an aasimar. So I don't think you show, also because you're not an alignment based class. Now, if they mistrust you because of your methods, remember that a warmage is CHA based, and is as such a great liar. When I play evil, I find myself talking my way out of things more than if I play good. If you find intellegent reasoning for things you do, you are now a cunning manipulator. Or something. Or just wait until your group matures if they're nasty because of your evilness. Also, look into giantitp.com because Rich Burlew wrote some great articles about role playing.
LCD2YOU 11-16-06, 03:25 PM	With great subtlety. The evil villian who has their plans succeed via the egos and selfish aspirations of dupes is the great of all. Emporer Pallantane of Star Wars is the role model for the subtle manipulator.
Stev Beren 11-16-06, 04:01 PM	With great subtlety. The evil villian who has their plans succeed via the egos and selfish aspirations of dupes is the great of all. Emporer Pallantane of Star Wars is the role model for the subtle manipulator. The Smart Alec answer, and the one I tend to go with myself is 'Don't'. There is rarely a appropriate concept that you cannot do as a Neutral instead and just take off that extra 'evil' edge. Of course, my definition of what it takes to go from 'neutral' to either evil or good is probably more stringent than most people. That being said. . . Give the evil character in question at least one 'redeeming quality' that is without question 'good'. One of the Evil NPC's that my players liked best was somebody that was extremely dedicated to his family, and those he has put under his protection. He will not tolerate the slightest abuse of children. He is oftenvery generous with charity. . . But he is willing to go through very vile methods to accomplish the things he was determined to accomplish. As long as it didn't violate those strictures he had, he was quite literally willing to do just about anything. Of course, if the person he killed had children, he would see to it that they were well provided for and would lack for nothing. . . In short, the advice would be the same as it is for good characters; make them complex. It is the rare person indeed that has no redeeming qualities and the rare person indeed that has no flaws.
pita 11-16-06, 04:11 PM	Just read Rich Burlew articles. The man explained how evil people think in a way I never will.
DarkNick 11-16-06, 04:14 PM	Stev Beren talked about giving the character a 'redeeming quality'. You can turn it around and suggest that your evil character was good but was corrupted by his 'unredeeming qualities'. Examples of this could include Anikin Skywalker, McBeth, Lord Soth. All were heroic characters fighting for what they thought was 'good' but were corupted along the way by love, power, or greed. In effect you become a tragic character, someone you pity but don't forgive. Difficult to do but could be really rewarding. If you were keen you could work with the DM and play out your downfall in the campaign, essentially starting as a good character...
hotoro 11-16-06, 04:15 PM	One option that ensures party stability is to have the evil character develop a kinship (real or fake) to a party PC, especially if its: 1) The party healer: Paladin's excluded of course. 2) The unlucky guy: Jump on the guy that has botched 1/2 a dozen rolls and is sitting there grumbling to himself. He could use a friend right now... Now, befriend that person. Protect them and "cherish" their advice. Be willing to go that extra mile to help them out of a jam (unless of course, and this is where the evil comes in, this would cause your death and/or this person to no longer be useful to you). Not only does this give you a sturdy anchor in the party (provided that said character does not die), it gives you a means (something to dive behind) to protect you from party members that decide to go on a witch hunt against you b/c you are obviously "evil" and, if need be, it gives you a dupe to throw in the way of an onrushing object on account of their potential willingness to sacrifice themself to save you. Also, for all those paladins out there, remember the old phrase "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." Sure, the Paladin does not like your methods and in certain situations they may lop off your head but at the same time, if they do, who is going to perform your intricate job in the party? While this issue is being worked out, continue befriending the aforementioned character until the Paladin's paranoia seems to be the threat, not you. Is pally over there willing to cut through his CG buddy to get to you? That doesn't sound very lawful good to me! When playing an evil character you can be ruthless, can be vindictive, and you can put yourself in a situation where the party has no choice but to let you live. You can turn the party "against" itself in a positive way. The roleplaying is more fun if some of the PCs disagree about methods. Truth be told, you are walking the edge of a sword between keeping that evil but acceptable medium and doing something that results in the good PCs lopping your melon off. Just remember, when playing an evil PC in a good party that the most dangerous and/or effective evil is not the evil that runs screaming at its enemies, waving a club in the air. Its the guy with the honey-sweet words and the honest smile that buries a knife in your back.
CryoSilver 11-16-06, 04:37 PM	The only thin I can say about playing an evil character is that Evil does not equal = psychopathic murderer. What evil essentially boils down to is being self-serving. You put yourself before others: even your pettiest desires matter more than the well-being of others. Not to say that you can't make exceptions for some (such as your family, party members, etc), but to you, the "facelsss masses" exist solely for your benefit.
Sphyre 11-16-06, 05:08 PM	My favorite character I ever played was Evil. Not because I enjoy in the pain of others, in fact I don't, but rather because he was the most imperfect character I've ever played and that made him feel alive. He had lower stats than anyone else in the party too. He distrusted a few party members but knew the need to be in the party. The players knew that I was playing as a team player even if my character seemed to dislike them. He was twisted to evil through sorrowful happenings and the feeling of helplessness. He knows whats good and really wants to do good, but he fails at it. When everything comes down to it, he chooses evil because it's easier. It's easier to kill someone who knows your dark secrets than it is to try to atone for them. It's easier to hide than to confront yourself. It's easier to lie than to admit to yourself the truth. The best advice I have is to remember that you're playing a character, not an alignment. Just because you're evil doesn't mean that you can't do good. Just because you're evil doesn't mean you can't do good things. Just because you're evil doesn't mean that you can't love. Just becuase you're evil, doesn't mean you have to force your character to do something because of his alignment when you would rather have that character do something else. The biggest problem I see is that people treat the Evil alignment exactly how they treat the paladin. The fact that you have excuses for your actions as opposed to reasons. Imagine a person, not an alignment, and that's the best advice I can give for playing someone with an "E" under the alignment place on your character sheet.
HermitIX 11-16-06, 05:24 PM	I played an evil mage once. I think the trick is to keep him loyal to the party. They may be the only people he is loyal to. Then just play dark. As lawful evil you may try to solve problems efficiently with no moral issues to get in the way. You like rules. Especially if you can manipulate them to your advantage. Remember you are not chaotic. You don’t kill or destroy with out reason. So no burning down the town for fun. Just because you are evil doesn’t mean you can’t be a nice guy, you just have an alternate reason for being nice. Try to play the good guy when ever you can get something out of it. Any way these are just some notes I have.
pmurray@bigpond.com 11-16-06, 06:31 PM	If you have read "Order of the Stick", the halfling ranger is CE but works belivably as a member of the party. It's at "giant in the playground comics", or something. Just google it. And read the whole series online one evening.
Count Nerindil Van Seraph 11-16-06, 06:52 PM	Just read Rich Burlew articles. The man explained how evil people think in a way I never will. Link please?
Sphyre 11-16-06, 08:23 PM	For Order of the Stick (made by Rich Burlew) or Rich Burlew Articles see: http://www.giantitp.com/index.html
hotoro 11-17-06, 09:06 AM	The articles there are excellent. Great resource.
ZypherX 11-17-06, 03:57 PM	For me, Neutral Evil will always be epitomized by the Practical Incarnation in Planescape: Torment. He used people as tools, purely as a means to an end, forming relationships because it was advantageous to his goals. He cared for himself only.
High Octane 11-18-06, 02:24 PM	Playing evil is simple. You matter. YOU are most important. If it benefits you, thats all that matters. Whether others are hurt or killed, it doesnt matter. Keep asking yourself "How will this benefit ME?" Thats neutral evil. As for lawful evil.... You are worthy. Strength is all that matters. Might makes right. There are those born to rule and those born to serve. Chaotic Evil.... I'll do what I want when I want to do it and I dont care WHO I hurt.
green_yawgmoth 11-18-06, 02:39 PM	lawful evil is so, SO fun to play. In essence, you follow some form of moral code, or have some kind of taboo you refuse to do (won't hit a woman, won't harm children, won't eat meat on friday, etc.) but outside of that, the world is your oyster. Everyone is a tool to be used for your own ends. If it doesn't help you, then why do it? And so on. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
thadastardly1 11-18-06, 03:55 PM	Just like Michael Hayes says about being a heel: no matter what, no matter how twisted the logic, an evil character feels that their motives are justified and right
pmurray@bigpond.com 11-19-06, 07:35 PM	I was looking at Assasin for my Rog, which means he'd have to be evil. I dislike selfish evil characters and intra-party bickering (although I think it amuses our DM). So my character concept was that he simply has no conscience whatever about killing people - doesn't bother him a bit. Basically, a psychopath. NE. (note that psycophy does not mean CE mad slasher) This would allow me to play as I normally would and to put the evil off into roleplying that doesn't affect the party. In principle, he would be capable of murdering the party in their sleep and taking their stuff. In practice, we'd just adventure as usual. (In the end, I decided to go with Invisible Blade instead, so he's TN).
Zinegata 11-20-06, 12:56 AM	I was wondering if anybody had any good pointers on how to play an evil character because I want to play my character well. I was also wondering if I should switch my alignment to Neutral evil or chaotic evil with the decision of a warmage. Again, I would just prefer tips on how to play evil well as I would love to show up my friends and play an evil character. Thanks! Playing an Evil character well is just the same as playing a Good character well. Seriously. Remember that the main difference between an Evil character with a Good one is that the former does not care about the sanctity of sentient life. Otherwise, they're the same. An Evil character can still love (he/she just doesn't give a damn about the people he/she doesn't love), and they can serve a greater cause. Also, never forget that well-played characters have a past - and Evil ones - at least ones played realistically and well, tend to have more tragic pasts that make them more endearing. Evil need not be akin to a Saturday morning villain. My favorite evil character, for example, was a Lawful Evil witch. While she takes great glee in murdering Evil people and is downright condescending with everyone else, she's loyal to a fault to her country and her party, is utterly honest and refuses to lie (when facing five Lawful Good Deities who were asking the party to save the world, she flat-out said "I'm Evil, and I'm doing this to gain power."), and even secretly longs for a genuine, loving marriage with a Paladin, although I think at that point the DM started croaking at such an atypical depiction of Evil :D. (Though I liked the Witch-Paladin marriage idea so much, however, that I made her an NPC in my campaign, where she risks her own life and career to help the Paladin she's in love with to atone for an act of Evil. Yep, the irony of an Evil person helping a Paladin become a Paladin once again.) Evil, in short, can be a chance to depict how people, regardless of their morality, are ultimately human, with hopes, loves, and dreams.
green_yawgmoth 11-20-06, 01:54 AM	I was looking at Assasin for my Rog, which means he'd have to be evil. I dislike selfish evil characters and intra-party bickering (although I think it amuses our DM). So my character concept was that he simply has no conscience whatever about killing people - doesn't bother him a bit. Basically, a psychopath. NE. (note that psycophy does not mean CE mad slasher) This would allow me to play as I normally would and to put the evil off into roleplying that doesn't affect the party. In principle, he would be capable of murdering the party in their sleep and taking their stuff. In practice, we'd just adventure as usual. (In the end, I decided to go with Invisible Blade instead, so he's TN).A person with no regard for others would be a sociopath more than a psychopath. A psychopath would care about (some) other people, but wouldn't care about the consequences of his actions. Psychopaths tend to have no conscience and little impulse control (so pretty CE, actually); sociopaths see everyone as little more than tools, pets, or annoyances. Hooray for psychology tests I have tomorrow! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Tyraxus 11-20-06, 02:16 AM	Also, never forget that well-played characters have a past - and Evil ones - at least ones played realistically and well, tend to have more tragic pasts that make them more endearing. Evil need not be akin to a Saturday morning villain. So very true. As an example, my current Evil char (and first "evil"char), Ty, had a horrible childhood. Born with a slight birth defect (abnormal eyes, the iris is jet black) he was hidden away by his parents who were good, loyal servants of Pelor, because they lived in a small village and feared people would say he was a demon. When he was about seven, his father ticked off a local successful businessman in some minor matter of local politics. The businessman hired some thugs to come in and rough him and his wife up (nobody knew about Ty), and they got a bit carried away and killed them both while Ty watched from his hidy-hole, and escaped as their boss, an arcane caster, burned the place to the ground. He slunk around the edges of town, and watched as the merchant who hired the thugs preached the value of forgiveness in Pelor's name, and convinced the town to set them free (small bit of intimidation as well as religion; nobody wanted to call him on being their boss because they didn't want a visit from more thugs and the religious angle gave them an out). Ty, outraged, swore an oath of vengeance, and then killed the group of thugs as they slept (even a seven year old can coup de grace a grown man as he sleeps, and if he's trying hard enough to be quiet, he can do six before they wake up if they don't post a watch). He flitted around the countryside, finally joining up with a group of bandits until they got cleaned out by a group of the King's men, when again he slipped away into the night after he managed to get out of the ropes binding him. Ty's seen how "might makes right," and he's determined to be the strongest he can be so that he doesn't have to watch more friends and family die. He's loyal to a fault with his friends (he faced a mob out for his good friend's blood, and stayed after they demanded he leave Alex to them), but he hates most gods and magic users due to his childhood trauma. Oh, and did I mention that he's quite paranoid (especially when around people playing politics), and will not stand for children being seperated from their parents? Long story short: Be complex. An evil character isn't necessarily 100% evil, but he is out for himself and will do some things that ordinary people would find morally reprehensible... and he's probably got a very good reason for it, too.
High Octane 11-21-06, 02:43 PM	Never forget this classic figure who has a great background. He was the greatest, the most loved, the most beautiful of his creator's creations, amongst a race made in the image of his creator. Then his creator created another race. His creator said his first race shall serve the new race. His favored soul refused, saying he would serve none but the creator. For his refusal he was cast down into a fiery pit. This being would then dedicate his existance to the ruin and perversion of his creators second creation, who was favored more. Can you identify this guy? :) Hes one hell of a villain.
Borne Of Hate 11-21-06, 03:17 PM	NEVER...EVER.... forget to punch babies at every opportunity you can.
Kobold_Avenger 11-21-06, 05:14 PM	Just remember, when playing an evil PC in a good party that the most dangerous and/or effective evil is not the evil that runs screaming at its enemies, waving a club in the air. Its the guy with the honey-sweet words and the honest smile that buries a knife in your back. Heresy!! For Khorne!!
High Octane 11-21-06, 05:25 PM	NEVER...EVER.... forget to punch babies at every opportunity you can. Sometimes its too much effort to kneel down or bend over. Kicking in these situations is a valid alternative.
Nobunaga Oda 11-21-06, 05:30 PM	Not acting like a complete psycho is a good start.
HairyApe 11-21-06, 05:52 PM	I have a favorite "evil" alignment. It is NE. I see him as the 'Opportunist.' He may or may not care about his group, but he always sees the advantage of having people around. For me, money is a good way to be evil. So is Charisma. If you lack skills, then evil becomes harder for a good inclined group to swallow. Rogues and Beguilers make good evil characters as do wizards (spells make up for skills). A few sense motives, bluffs, gather info, and a profession skill, and you have a character ready to make a business or sell one that doesn't exist to a guy trying to make his way in the world. Steal. It's fun. The key here is, don't do it to your PC's unless it is 1.)SEVERELY IN CHARACTER and the deserve it. 2.)They have ****** you off for some reason (OOG arguments about how evil is bad) and you are leaving the game anyway. p.s. I've never actually done 2.), but letting slip how easy it is to be evil the way they see it will occasionally (read: **** measuring contests with munchkins) put into perspective your character. It helped my current group enjoy an evil character of mine (Beguiler actually)
Piggyfreak6 11-21-06, 06:00 PM	Be racist. Look down on other races, expecally half-orcs becasue you're more celestial then they'll ever be! Call Elves tree huggers, call humans roundears, call gnomes garden folk and halflings kid. Feel no compassion for children who are alone, or anyone needing help without proper payment. Kick a dog if you have to. I find the cruelest of evil people don't think big much, but they think small and do small evil acts. It makes more people angry, which spreads more evil.
DM_Shonuff 11-21-06, 06:37 PM	Evil... An evil Aasimar? cool. How does one play an evil character? First thing I would do is look for different types of examples of evil.. You want to play evil, GREAT. Except when a paladin or a lawful good cleric is in the party...EVIL works in a party of neutrals or goods. Stay away from Chaotic play. Look at Hannibal Lecter. The begining of the movie, Red Dragon. He is siting at a table of high class aristocrats, drinking wine, and FEEDING THEM PEOPLE without a flutter. No maniacal laughter.No rubbing of hands together. He has goals, and he is showing the guests at his table that "eating people aint so bad, ya hardly noticed." He is calm, charismatic and actually jovial during the dialogue. Look at Vader. (in know I know, but it fits this time) 4,5 and 6 no prequels. A STRICT cod of ethics. Strong in his OWN beliefs, He's just willing to choke a few admirals to get his point across. He isn't pulling out a lightsaber and slicing them in two without regard. He isn't laughing like a madman and hopping on the table dacing on their spleen. He's cold, calculating and gets what needs done, DONE, without care if it bothers someone else. AND in both of these examples, they see what they do as RIGHT. they see what the do to reach their goals is not as important as the end result. Lawful evil, as I take it, is someone who is evil, but will use and bend the laws surrounding him to his advantage. When the evil act is agreeable, then the evildoer looks for ways to do it without breaking any laws.. I call LE actually Loophole Evil. Take a normal Joe, make him intelligent enough to find ways around what needs done, then get rid of "Shoot, Can't do that, that'd be too mean/evil/gory" out of his vocabulary. Evil has no remorse, but it does have tact. and charisma in the form of personality helps hide the shortcomings of the loopholes. Hope this helps.
Vestigial_Thumb 11-21-06, 07:22 PM	Not acting like a complete psycho is a good start. Yes, but not for the reason you might think. "Evil =/= Psychopath" is not necessarily true. There are psychopaths and they're generally Evil. But psychopathy is not a good party mechanic, not matter how well you play him. Being Chaotic Evil (with self-restraint) means something like this: "I won't bother to hurt you if you're not getting in my way, but if you do, I will go the extra mile to make your life a living hell right up until the second you die screaming. You'd also better hope I'll forget about your family. Don't mess with me, mother****er!"
High Octane 11-21-06, 08:04 PM	Yes, but not for the reason you might think. "Evil =/= Psychopath" is not necessarily true. There are psychopaths and they're generally Evil. But psychopathy is not a good party mechanic, not matter how well you play him. Being Chaotic Evil (with self-restraint) means something like this: "I won't bother to hurt you if you're not getting in my way, but if you do, I will go the extra mile to make your life a living hell right up until the second you die screaming. You'd also better hope I'll forget about your family. Don't mess with me, mother****er!" Calm down Vestigial.... put the gun down.... we are your friends.... you are sick Vestigial.... Im going to give you a shot to help you feel better and take you to a happy place....
Zinegata 11-21-06, 10:30 PM	Calm down Vestigial.... put the gun down.... we are your friends.... you are sick Vestigial.... Im going to give you a shot to help you feel better and take you to a happy place.... ... Dude, just tell the snipers to shoot him already ;)
Vaelan 11-22-06, 12:33 AM	To an evil person, the end justifies the means. Please desist from attempting to make moral statements that are not supported by the text of the PHB and thus have nothing to do with this topic, regardless of how commonly-held this belief is. Thanks. Also, this viewpoint is contradictory on a basic logical level when you consider that killing is Evil and that Good characters are allowed to kill to defend the innocent, both of which have ample support within the PHB.
hotoro 11-22-06, 09:43 AM	I have been following this post quite avidly and I must say that there are some fairly decent observations on here. However, there are several things that keep coming up that I happen to disagree with and I will focus on them here. THe Oppurtunist- This is not neccesary for an evil character! Many people throughout history have become evil and committed atrocities beyond the scope of normal comprehension for what they felt was the greater good of the people. Look at the Crusades. Heck, look at the terrorist attacks around the world. To said people, they are often working for the greater good in their opinion and not just because doing what they are doing helps them gain more power. The Redeeming Quality- This is a common misconception when it comes to evil characters IMO. While many evil characters have morals (don't hurt kids, or animals, humans, etc.), these morals are often what drive them to commit their evil deeds. Their redeeming quality in most cases is nothing more than their reasoning behind the acts they commit. Furthermore, and I cannot stress this enough when running with a good party: There is a difference between having a redeeming quality and saying you have a redeeming quality. The Baby Kicker Arguement- Why kick babies when you can carry weapons that allow you to attack them without provoking an attack of oppurtunity...? THe Psychopath: Is this character playable? Is this character not playable? When I refer to psychopath I refer to the CE guy that just wants to attack, kill, injure, and possibly eat just about everything he comes across but is often held back by some sort of restraint. While this is not the definition of psychopath, it seems to be its common usage on the boards and thus I apply it here. This is beyond a shadow of a doubt the most difficult evil to play in a good party. There is literally nothing stopping you from killing the PCs in their sleep (other than your sense as a player, sense that should not apply when running true CE). At the same time, playing that character that has to leave scene to do something to vent their agression (While Cliche, cutting/whipping yourself seem to be the common ones these days) can be, if nothing else a interesting experience. IMO though, if this is your first time playing evil in a good party, LE is the way to go. It gives you the basis for party unity on account of the LE character's yearning for order. CE equals a bumbling, slobbering monster, LE equals strength is all that matters, no matter what and NE equals "I am out for me. ME!" - While these are the initial black and white personas depicted in D&D, you are not restricted to these attitudes. Perhaps your CE character is super intelligent/charsmatic (Lector has been mentioned on here before, but I cannot stress this enough. Definetly CE with Lawful tendencies). Perhaps your character is just the quiet, super nice guy. Look at all the serial killers throughout history and the post-arrest interviews w/ the neighbors. "He was very quiet." "He was such a nice guy." "Yeah he kept to himself, but he seemed so normal to me." Neutral Evil is focused on self gain and often power hungry but perhaps your motivation does not fall onto the gain of the individual. Perhaps you want to gain prestige for your family, guild, etc. and are willing to go to any lengths to do so. Perhaps you want to gain power NOT because you should have it because you are you but because you need to use the power to exact some sort of revenge/ right a wrong (Tyraxus's story is an excellent example of a character that can be NE for such reasons). Being NE is not all about you. Find a way to justify the NEED for everything to be yours. Then you can truly play evil. LE is not just about only the strong survive. LE is about order, plain and simple. These are the guys that not only want the death penalty, but will go out and exact vigilante justice themselves if need be,often in ways that are a bit too graphic to go into detail about here. These are the guys that want a law/ rule for everything and if there isn't one, create their own. These are the villains that hide (unpurposely) behind religion, law, morality, history, etc. because in their mind they are doing what they are doing for the betterment of a cause. LE is corruption, plain and simple. Definitive Evil- Being racist, being completely cold blooded, being willing to sacrifice everything and everyone you care about just so you can do what you want. These are not evil. These are stupid. At least, they are when they are portrayed to the extremes in the D&D alignment set up. Being racist in D&D is often just going to get you killed, unless you focus it on those who cannot do anything about it and/or give background reasoning for why you are racist (Focus on one race... maybe a dwarven father killed your father in a drunken rage or something). Don't just go around and insult everyone who is of the same race as you. That is just going to get you beat up. The terminator character, he who has no compassion whatsoever is just BORING. True evil characters care too much, as opposed to not at all. If you do not care if so and so lives or dies, then you are not going to want to kill them. This character is, in all honesty closer to true neutral then he/she is to evil. Also, it takes away from the human (or elf, dwarf, etc.) side of your PC. Evil characters should be memorable, not robotic. I do not think I need to touch anymore on the guy who is willing to sacrifice everything in the name of himself and/or evil. In closing, my main advice has got to be do not look on the evil alignments as the definitive answer to being evil. That is why good people have such trouble understanding and/or playing Paladins. The system is back and white only until it is subject to player interpretation. In addition, listen to the advice on these posts, but adapt them accordingly. The people who post on here know what they are talking about and have many, many great insights into playing evil. It is just a matter of making sure you approach it from a human standpoint, not a D&D standpoint.
fredbobberty 11-30-06, 02:58 AM	thank you all for your ideas and experiences with playing evil characters. Here's what I've decided to play, based on the first session we had. I started off quite quiet and tried to silence my party as they asked the king questions that distracted him from bringing about the true reason we were called before him. I'm not tolerant of small talk and when it comes to battle, I'm a get 'er done person. I also talked to my gm about enemies he was going to send against us and I decided that due to the number, my character has a revulsion for goblinoids and will kill them on the spot, unless they're prominent citizens, in which case, he'll somehow plan their demise. I was just wondering what everyone thought of that idea and if there were any pointers to go on beyond what I've already started
Lycanthromancer 11-30-06, 04:04 AM	I'm currently planning a character of the 'he who has no compassion whatsoever is just BORING' persuasion, but due to the way he is set up, I think he's going to be very interesting, vivid, and somewhat realistic, given his background. Yes, he has no empathy or sympathy with others. Yes, he's manipulative (he's a telepath-soon-to-be-thrallherd), and is able to do whatever it takes, no matter how gruesome, gory, or horrible it is, to do what he needs to do, no matter who it hurts. And he enjoys hurting others; he's an extreme sadist, and somewhat masochistic, as well. He is extremely evil, and he knows he is evil. And that bothers him. Badly. Tortured for years under the psionic 'experimentation' of an illithid encampment, his body and mind were both broken under their Tender Loving Care [tm]. Something in his emotional makeup snapped, causing him to feel great pleasure at the expense of others, and destroying his ability to feel compassion of any kind. And, due to the fact that he grew to adolescence in the flayers' breeding/livestock facility before he was carted off to be experimented on, he never learned the difference between right and wrong in the first place. But, once he became useless as food/slave/experiment/breeding fodder (race change from human to xeph), he had half of his memories psionically erased and was tossed out on his ear, to live or die as he would. The only reason he survived is because a man of very sturdy moral filter, Haar (I'm thinking LG), took him in and slowly nursed him back to health. During his long recovery, Haar showed him great compassion and kindness, and he came to respect and (somewhat, as much as he is able) care for Haar as the father he never had. He cannot feel remorse, cannot feel shame, cannot feel sympathy, pity, compassion, or regret, in response to the plights of others. But he wants to. Killing Haar wouldn't bother him for an instant, but the fact that that doesn't bother him does bother him. Intellectually, he knows some of the more basic tenents of being good, and wants to be good, but he's incapable of doing it, as his emotional makeup prevents it. He gets such orgasmically high off of his intentional sadism that he occasionally makes accidental 'mistakes' that anyone else would view as clearly evil, though he cannot tell the difference unless he is specifically told, or was out to do harm intentionally in the first place. Heck, the only thing that keeps him from going full-blown Chaotic Evil maim-and-torment-everything-in-sight is the fact that other peoples' ability to feel those things that are barred from him intrigues him, and that he has some inkling of regret in him that he cannot. In short, he's broken, and knows that he's broken. Doing broken things doesn't bother him, but being broken does. Perhaps, someday, he shall be redeemed.
Jhulae 11-30-06, 04:53 AM	Well, I played a Lawful Evil Wizard/Shadow Adept once. She was in a party of mostly good PCs, and worked the best with the LG Cleric of Moradin. As others have said, subtlety is the best weapon you have. The best trick I had was convincing the party to do what I wanted, by making them believe they're the ones who came up with the idea to begin with. One adventure, we had to rescue a future ruler from a group of assassins. It turns out, this ruler was going to be in power over a slave race (they were all extraplanar). The adventure really expected the party to either keep the ruler safe, or convince the ruler to talk with the assassin group to come up with a peaceable solution. My character wanted the whole slave race to owe her, so she wanted to give the future ruler to the assassins. Just with simple honeyed words, she was able to have the barbarian (who hated slavery) and the LG Cleric to 'come up' with the decision that turning the ruler over to the slaves was the 'right course of action'. She never directly stated that course of action. That's the probably the biggest way to roleplay Evil smartly. Because, at the end, when the party realizes they might have made the wrong choices (which you wanted them to make), they have no one to blame but themselves. Another time, a while after the Druid in the party ended up slighting her, she let the druid's animal companion die in a fight. And, after the fight was over, the druid *thanked* her. Why? Because for ~5 rounds, while the animal companion was getting torn to shreds, she made it *appear* she was doing *everything* she could to help it, all the while, actually doing *nothing*. Again, very subtle, but her revenge was taken.
Loto_GoCeraf 11-30-06, 12:27 PM	Since you're lawful evil, you kind of have some rules to obey to maintain the mechanic of your alignment. First of all, someone saying something you don't like does NOT lead to an immediate transmute moron to crater Spell. Secondly, you don't have to be a leader, meaning you don't have to have high charisma, but it would not hurt to be devoted to the party, or at least the party's goals. Don't be counter-productive; it's players who are that make evil such a frowned-upon gameplay choice. One of the most important things to remember is that, at all costs, try to avoid in-party conflict. The worst thing you could do is kill another of the players' characters, cause that just leads to further distance you from them, especially if they're good. It IS possible for an evil character to have friends, after all. Aside from that, just do things that an evil character would do during roleplaying. When interrogating a prisoner, instead of intimidation or diplomacy, trying pinning his hand to the table with a dagger. For this, you MIGHT want to interrogate alone. Threaten harm to a person's loved ones, and follow up on that threat little by little. In battle, it will not be your place to allow people to escape. Sure, if there are still enemies, you will spend your spells on them instead of the half-dead fighter trying to limp away. If, however, you see an enemy wizard starting to get weak, drop a dimensional anchor on him or something to keep him around. If you see the enemy rogue or fighter turn tail, smoke him with a fireball. All in all, be intelligent evil, not stupid evil. Don't draw attention to yourself, and don't give your fellow players any reason to gripe about your roleplaying.
mlund 12-01-06, 06:34 PM	Lawful Evil means that you believe in some ordered structure of the way things ought to be and the way you ought to act, but that it is in stark contrast to the fundamental moral tenets of the Good alignment. What if life was cheap? What if the only way the make history is to guide society with an iron hand? What is people didn't deserve much in the way of dignity and rights just for being people? Take any one of those possibilities and make them a reality for your character's outlook and you're more than half-way there. Now make it a point to reinforce that view of reality when you interact with others. Use and abuse people who "deserve it" in your particularly twisted outlook. Be consistent with your reasoning and rationalization, though. This is what sets you apart from a Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil character's impulsiveness. - Marty Lund
High Octane 12-01-06, 06:40 PM	Evil is relative to the morality, not of the culture, but of the DM.
Olli 12-01-06, 07:23 PM	read a song of Ice and Fire. At least one half of the main charakters are evil (to some extend or the other). Beside being a damn good read, it gives a good insight into what these characters think and what motivates them. as for playing an evil mage: be unscroupulus in the methods you use (why opening this door, when a freshly animated zombie could do it much better (and safer for you...)). Don´t burn down the town, because you feel like it, but if you must summon that demon, be it. oh, and the power souls could offer... if you can get some "volunteers" to provide you woth them. look into some sinister feats to give you some attidude. and don´t think you are evil. you are RIGHT, all who don´t complie with you must be evil. an evil aasimar offer some cool background you can work with (father/son problems anyone?). just remember, even evil people have friends. and they treat them like that. as for kicking babies, which mage would resort to physical attack. why kick if you can burn. :D
TheAngryFish 12-01-06, 07:30 PM	Evil is eating babies, punching babies, kicking babies, selling babies for others to eat/kick/punch, and last but not least, destroying planets with a big laser mounted on a starship(WE LOVE YOU VADER!!!!!)
Vestigial_Thumb 12-01-06, 07:36 PM	Evil is eating babies, punching babies, kicking babies, selling babies for others to eat/kick/punch, and last but not least, destroying planets with a big laser mounted on a starship(WE LOVE YOU VADER!!!!!) You know, we also torture babies. I'm kind of offended, considering how important it is to us.