Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Eomaugh 04-29-04, 10:36 AM	Hello, I am currently in a game where one of the player characters has a short temper, low charisma, and tends to be impulsive. Now, I don't really mind following that player into bad decisions (sometimes it's kind of fun) but lately he has taken to moving my character in battle, giving my character orders and then proceeding as though I'd done what he said, and even declaring that the time of day has changed. I think this is a bit over the top. Is it? What can I do about it? I know none of the people I play with personally. Is this something I should confront the player or the DM about? (as of now, the DM allows it)
ehrin 04-29-04, 10:42 AM	Giving you orders in battle is gaming. Moving your piece on the battlemap is metagaming. metagaming is wrong. You have many options: you can gently confront the other player and ask him to stop. You can tell the DM: I did not move my character, so whatever you just did, didn't happen. Or you can slap his hand when he touches your figure. You can say things to the DM like "Is what X said true? It is now noon?" Sooner or later, someone will get the message. If not, then you could fight fire with fire. Move his figure in combat. Declare that his character gave you his gold.
Beamup 04-29-04, 10:43 AM	Originally posted by Eomaugh Hello, I am currently in a game where one of the player characters has a short temper, low charisma, and tends to be impulsive. Now, I don't really mind following that player into bad decisions (sometimes it's kind of fun) but lately he has taken to moving my character in battle, giving my character orders and then proceeding as though I'd done what he said, and even declaring that the time of day has changed. I think this is a bit over the top. Is it? What can I do about it? I know none of the people I play with personally. Is this something I should confront the player or the DM about? (as of now, the DM allows it) WHAT?!?! Let me get this straight. One of the players is: - Controlling your PC as well as his - Controlling the game world And the DM doesn't say anything? You should absolutely confront both the DM and the player immediately.
Sondur Dragonbane 04-29-04, 10:48 AM	Is it the player or the character with the short temper, low Charisma, and tendency to be impulsive? If the problems are in game I would stand up for yourself. Say no if you do not want to follow this other characters orders. Out of game I would approach the player and the DM and explain that the character you made is yours and that this other player is making the game less enjoyable for you. If those approaches do not work you may need to find a new game or if you want to be mean you could just coup de grace the offending players character while you are on watch. What also might aid others in giving advice is to know what level and class both your's and the offending players characters are.
Eomaugh 04-29-04, 11:04 AM	Originally posted by Sondur Dragonbane Is it the player or the character with the short temper, low Charisma, and tendency to be impulsive? If the problems are in game I would stand up for yourself. Say no if you do not want to follow this other characters orders. Out of game I would approach the player and the DM and explain that the character you made is yours and that this other player is making the game less enjoyable for you. If those approaches do not work you may need to find a new game or if you want to be mean you could just coup de grace the offending players character while you are on watch. What also might aid others in giving advice is to know what level and class both your's and the offending players characters are. Yes, his character is the 5th level fighter with the short temper, low Charisma, and tendency to be impulsive. I am a third level druid. He has many years of experience playing D&D. I have almost none.
Beamup 04-29-04, 11:08 AM	Originally posted by Eomaugh Yes, his character is the 5th level fighter with the short temper, low Charisma, and tendency to be impulsive. I am a third level druid. He has many years of experience playing D&D. I have almost none. First of all, why are you 2 levels behind? Second of all, it may be, if he has that much more experience, that he thinks he's trying to "help" by "showing you how it's done" (or maybe he's mad because you're not as skilled with the nuances of the combat system as he is, or something). This makes it all the more imperative for you to talk with him and the DM about it. Don't let him treat you like a carpet.
Eomaugh 04-29-04, 11:32 AM	Originally posted by Beamup First of all, why are you 2 levels behind? Second of all, it may be, if he has that much more experience, that he thinks he's trying to "help" by "showing you how it's done" (or maybe he's mad because you're not as skilled with the nuances of the combat system as he is, or something). This makes it all the more imperative for you to talk with him and the DM about it. Don't let him treat you like a carpet. Sorry, I didn't realize the importance of the level question. I am only 50 XP from 4th level. He is probably about 1000 XP points over 5th level, but I don't know for sure. So, I think we are only about one level apart? I had a bad moment there thinking that, his behavior, combined witht he DMs approval, might mean I was being asked to leave the game, in one way or another. But he does this to everyone at the table, and all of them have played before, though maybe not as much as him.
jasper 04-29-04, 11:41 AM	tell the goober thanks for the help but you can move your own mini. And that you druid has not enlisted in his army.
Sondur Dragonbane 04-29-04, 11:50 AM	I bwould ask him not to move my mini (I wouldn't be that polite, but that's me:D). I would also talk to the DM.
Nom 04-29-04, 09:34 PM	If you don't mind spitting the dummy, you could always hand your char sheet to him and ask your DM if you can create a new character - one for you to play, rather than this guy's cohort. But yeah, another player shouldn't be touching your mini during play unless he knocked it over and is straightening it or you asked him to. Likewise, he shouldn't be giving orders for your character. Actually, he shouldn't really be giving OOC suggestions at all, but that depends on how strict your group is about IC vs OOC discussion during combat. In your situation, I'd start immediately countermanding his orders - "No, I do this." Even if this is less optimal, explain that it's your character and he has decided to respond in this manner. It's OK to say this in a tone of voice that suggests that if the other guy doesn't like it he can find a pier to jump off, but I'd refrain from actually using those words. ;)
MoogleEmpMog 04-29-04, 11:03 PM	I've played in campaigns in which the PCs were part of a military hierarchy and one or more was of higher rank. In-campaign orders from a 'leader'-type PC aren't beyond the pale, especially coming from a more experienced player. However, actually moving your figure is going a step further; that's out of campaign and inappropriate. Depending on the campaign, your PC might have to pay consequences for disobeying orders, but unless the other PC is a psion and is dominating you, he can't decide your actions for you. As for his 'changing the time of day...' ... are you SURE he's an experienced player? Because he sounds awfully immature.
jasper 04-30-04, 09:11 AM	the plenty of experience players who are immature.
Phantom Reaper 04-30-04, 04:24 PM	Can you please tell us the outcome of this. All yeah as long as you don't agree with what he is doing with your character what you say is you didn't do it. If nothing gets taken care of you tell the DM to take care of it or walk.
Edymnion 04-30-04, 05:10 PM	Yes, I'd also like to hear how this turns out. Bottom line though is that it doesn't matter if he's been playing 20 minutes longer than you, or 20 years longer than you. Its your character, only you get to say what he does. Even the DM doesn't get to have your character act without your permission (barring spell effects). The more experienced player may give you suggestions on what would be best, but thats it. Combined with the fact he's telling the DM when the time changes just makes him sound like a control freak to me. Normally I'd want to hear his side of the story, but there is absolutely no excuse at all for controlling someone else's character, nor telling the DM how the world works. When he pulls something like that, just ignore him and do what you want to do. If he doesn't like it, tough, it wasn't his call to make.
DevilKiller 04-30-04, 05:18 PM	I just have to ask if anybody else recalls the concept of the "Caller" from the wayback days. I can't say that I ever played in a game where we had a Caller, but the general idea was that all the other players would tell the Caller what they wanted their characters to do and then the Caller would tell the DM, sort of a single point of contact thing. Using a Caller was supposed to streamline the game, but obviously it has fallen out of fashion. I think scenarios like this are one reason why, but it also just seems more fun to do things yourself.
Vanigo 04-30-04, 05:47 PM	Every time he tries to dictate what your character does, simply say "No I don't," and do something else. Make a big deal about it; make sure everyone knows you don't want him controlling your character. If he keeps doing it, contradict him with progressively stupider actions. Make sure everyone knows why. Eventually, you should get to the point where you cause a TPK every time he touches your fig. At that point, everyone will demand you resolve the situation. He's clearly in the wrong here, so the resolution is bound to go your way. If it doesn't, the group is composed entirely of jackasses, and you should leave. Now, it's reasonable for him to advise you, especially since you're new, but he has no right to control your character. Only you get to do that. As for him dictating the time of day and the like? Complain. Ask the player why that happened. Ask the DM if that really happened. Make noise. Make an issue of it.
Nom 04-30-04, 09:54 PM	The Caller makes sense when it comes to 'whole party' decisions, like where the party is going to go. Rather than the DM have to figure out what is happening from all the different discussions, the party discusses and the Caller relates this decision to the DM. In the tactical game - especially in 3rd Ed where there is no separate 'declaration' phase, you just act on your turn - having a caller is an unnecessary and silly level of indirection. Since only one player/character is acting at once, that player has the floor and tells the DM and the other players what their character is doing. That player and the DM resolve the action, and the turn passes to the controller of whichever character acts next. Depending on the group's house rules, the other players may offer suggestions or observations to the active player, or they may be required to keep their mouths shut until their turn. They certainly do not in any way usurp the player's turn. The only time a player should interact directly with the DM (or the game environment, such as moving pieces) during another player's turn is if a rules clarification - pertaining to the current player's turn - is required.
Elrana 05-01-04, 08:57 AM	The player in question sounds to me like nothing more than a bully and a loudmouth. It may not be physical or psychological bullying, but it is bullying just the same. Someone throwing their weight around to get their own way. I would suggest, if you are new to the group, that he is used to getting away with it and no one else there has the nouse or the strength of character to oppose him. If he is controlling the game I can only imagine that everyone else there would love to stop what is going on and take back their characters' actions, and the DM would probably like to be left to run his own game as well! Firstly I would see what happens if you do speak out about it to him. If the rest of the group back you then fine. It may not cause him to stop immediately but once the subject has been broached once it will be easier to do so again, and again, and agian and again if necessary! If he still doesn't stop then give him a copy of Icewind Dale and tell him that if he wants to control an entire group to go and play it. If he doesn't then sit down and shut up. If they do not back you then you are probably fighting a losing battle, and if you are not enjoying the game then you know what to do. If there is nowhere else for you to play then it is tough decision time I'm afraid. I have no problem with players in my campaign discussing what to do on their actions from time to time (hmm, what shall I do, scorching ray or magic missile? Well he's had a bit of a kicking from me and the dwarf, I reckon a MM could do it The one we're going at has been critted twice and taken hits for three rounds now and he hasn't gone down yet, I'd use something with a bit more punch Okay, I cast scorching ray, does a 22 hit? Yep Cool, so 8d6 damage... Don't bother rolling, he's dead, he only had three hp left! Git!) Or giving advice (No! Don't move there, you're blatantly going to be flanked on their next turn!), and am more than happy to dish it out and receive it when I'm a player, but even with that level of interaction no one would ever tell a player what their character is doing, or override their decision and tell the DM. It's bad form. We also don't tell the DM what time it is! I suppose we could if we want but he (or me, whatever) will still follow his time and if that means the priests miss their prayer times and the party start getting fatigued and don't realise, tough! They don't have to sleep at all as far as I'm concerned, I'll just keep racking on the penalties!
Wizard 05-01-04, 09:08 AM	Yeah, stuff like this can sort of be avoided by retreating into an IC shell. Hover over your mini like a mother hen, man, 'cause apparently no one else will. I bet that just that bit of body language will make the guy back off---who reaches under or around someone's arms at their possessions? Of course, if he does THAT, then just say so, and I'm sure we on the boards, given classes and level, can help you bump the bugger off.
striderII 05-01-04, 07:24 PM	Yes, Virginia, it's true.... "experienced gamer" and "immature" are not necessarily exclusive terms. This guy is over the line. If his *character* is loud mouthed, etc. and he plays his character that way, that's fine, so long as he isn't doing it in an improper manner. If the *player* is the same, and is making the game difficult (which I can only assume he is, as he is dictating things to the DM), then he has to go. Now, he may have been playing for 5 years, but how old is the group? Perhaps those 5 years are from 12-17, and he's never grown up. And, personal opinion, 5 years does not necessarily mean you are experienced at gaming, either. There is always something new to learn. When you've been playing for 10 to 15 years, yeah, you've seen pretty much everything come down the pike (OOC, that is), so you can speak with some authority (this is not to say that people with less than 10 years experience know nothing, or that those people with that or more have nothing to learn). Talk to the DM. This player's actions need to be corrected immediately. If that fails, feel free to send him to my group - we've almost all been around since the original D&D, so there isn't much if anything he can try we haven't seen before. We can set him straight (or send him home crying to his momma - which could be more fun). strider
trapspringer 05-01-04, 10:18 PM	Two questions. Are you sitting there for five minutes on your turn, trying to make up your mind over weather to attack, cast cure, or run? Or, worse, are you simply not sitting there on your turn at all. Please don't think I am accusing you, but it is the only point which hasn't been brought up. If you are not actively participating, that may be a part of the problem.
Eomaugh 05-04-04, 12:58 PM	As of the last time we met, this guy had simply stopped doing that stuff. I didn't think that was interesting enough at the time to post, but I saw a thread about the Leadership feat and cohorts and remembered he was talking about that feat the last time we met. An interesting solution. I wonder if it was his own idea.