Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kuraito 10-09-05, 05:24 PM	So, I have a Half-Orc cleric with 6 int and 16 wisdom, and I am lost. I know the PHB gives a brief example of high int, low wis, but to breif. Do I talk weird, maybe even third person? I notice stuff, but do I know enough to mention it? Can a cleric (who went to a cleric academy) really go, ME HALF-ORC, ME HEAL? I'm just kinda lost.
Rabid Dire Wolverine 10-09-05, 05:28 PM	He's probably wise enough to know his low vocabulary doesn't help his image and is mostly silent. Gestures a lot.
Gingerbread Guy 10-09-05, 06:07 PM	I hate the fantasy/sci-fi stereotype that says that unintelligent characters have poor hygene and talk in the third person, as though cleanliness and the ability to say "I" are complex tasks mastered only by the intellectually suprerior. I consider intelligence, in terms of D&D, to represent the speed of one's mind, and it's capacity to understand and comprehend complex concepts. It also governs creativity, memory, and to some degree, wit. A character with low intelligence is probably slow to learn new tasks, and will tend to stick to whats worked for them in the past rather than adopting new concepts. They probably haven't picked up any booksmarts or factual knowledge. Wisdom, by D&D standards, seems (to me) to represent external awareness and experience. Whereas intelligent characters may be better understanding mechanical objects, wise characters will better understand less tangible concepts such as spirituality, emotions, ethics and morality. Perception and mental endurace seem to be shoved under the heading of "wisdom" as well, for lack of a better place to put them. In terms of language, I think an Int 6 character probably hasn't picked up as much vocabulary as others, and might not fully understand certain aspects of grammar (such as the use of irregular verbs). There is nothing particularly attractive about thid person grammar that makes it easier for idiots to use. Its just a stereotype. Intelligent but unwise characters will probably understand grammar, but might not understand sayings, metaphores, and quotes - and will probably misuse them. Maybe they heard "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" and thought it was a warning against constructing habitats out of unsafe materials. lol Everyone has that friend who says the stupidest things without knowing it. (If you don't have one of those friends, you probably ARE that friend.) If you want to roleplay your character with a severe misunderstanding of grammar, please pick some concept other than "Thog like apples" to avoid being cheesy, unoriginal and predictable. Maybe he gets confused about verb tense ("Thog liked apples"), or some other concept ("Thog want apples"), or just screw with his vocabulary ("Thog like tasty red things"). Also, don't name him Thog. A high wisdom, low intelligence character will probably surprise his companions with his introspective, well-reasoned nature. He may not understand technical details, such as how a sword is made, or how to forge a document (concepts which are physically complex and require creativity), but he'll probably be the first to pick up on the motives behind a plot to assassinate a wealthy noble (which requires emotional awareness and an unbiased perspective on a situation). He may engage a fellow party member in a long and complicated discussion about ethics, and then ask someone for help counting his share of the reward money for saving the noble. ~Ginger
Cymraegmorgan 10-09-05, 06:12 PM	Shy, selfconcious, but not a subliterate moron. There is no reason why a 6 INT/16WIS creature would not use complete sentences, just not a lot of them. He would still know how to use basic sentence structure without sounding like a ridiculous cartoon. In fact, with a wisdom that high, his vocabulary might be quite good, but his articulation slow and unsure, and his penmanship atrocious.
solbergb 10-10-05, 12:33 AM	Wisdom in D&D is perhaps more accurately termed as perception. This individual observes his surroundings, ignoring the distractions and focusing on what is important to him. He does the same with conversations, being far better at understanding whether he's being lied to or how the talker feels about him or his friends than what the person is blathering about. With proper training, this strength also makes him a good tracker or hunter, he intuits the environment and the motivations of prey-animals and gets what he needs. Likewise any profession that doesn't involve building things he's got the potential to be strong at. He can be a fantastic cook, or butler, or merchant, trusting to his instincts about people rather than forma learning. With very low intelligence though, he probably doesn't care much about why things are the way they are, or how they got that way. He's very focused on the present. Another interpretation (especially if charisma is low) is no matter what his IQ is, he just doesn't care about much beyond his narrow interests, and his mental discipline keeps him focused. Whether or not his low intelligence manifests as speech impediments has more to do with charisma than anything else. I'd be inclined for a cleric of this type to have a great vocabulary about his deity and maybe about healing (if he focuses on that) and any professions he might have, but be stuck for the right words in other situations - probably using a lot of religious metaphors. Think about how "nerds" talk sometimes. That would be as reasonable a way of playing a low int/cha person with high wisdom and high skills that back the attribute. Another approach is the silent type, who occasionally says something very profound. (I've seen "60s flower child psychadelic philosopher" type as a low int high wisdom roleplay approach, and of course the Venerable Martial Arts Master approach)
Jaxgaret 10-10-05, 02:05 AM	excellent thread. go on... I myself have only played Int 10/Wis 20+ characters. It was interesting playing the character smart as the average person (not too bright) but wise to the way the world works.
Gedrin 10-10-05, 02:19 AM	I prefer the guy who likes tested methods and prefers to think things through. He takes his time. He knows he's not that fast on his mental feet, and wants to have time to mull over decisions. If there's a traditional answer, he'll gravitate toward that, because it wouldn't be traditional if it didn't normally work. Probably like set answers, even if it takes him time to think through the quetsion. Tends to get nervous and may not be willing to make a fast decision, even if needed. With friends he prefers the ones that are nice and loyal. Trust is really important, because while he's got a good feel for people, he knows there are fast talkers out there that could confuse him. When confronted with strangers or fast talkers, he probably goes to get one of his clever friends. In matters of faith, he's likely very dogmatic. The dogma exists because someone already figured out the answers to questions like "how do I pray?". They were really smart and their answers have stood the test of time. Since he's wise and know's he's not really clever, he'll accept the expert advice of elder priests and the doctrinal teachings. In combat, he's likely straight forward. Prefers to have a specific role in a fight, rather than needing to figure out what he should be doing halfway through. Not very creative or inovative. When things go wrong, this character likely tries to pull back and take a look around. He needs time to figure things out. Lacking time, he'll try to continue with his job the best he can.
Brashnir 10-10-05, 02:39 AM	If your thread title is an indication of your intelligence, and the decision to ask for help an indication of your wisdom, just act naturally, and you'll be fine. ;) But seriously, one way to go with it is to play a character who isn't very good at coming up with ideas, but is good at getting behind and applying a good idea when it's presented, provided it's not too complex for him to understand. This character may not be too bright, but he's got the sense to listen to those who are and seems to have an innate knack for timing and using what he's learned to great effect. For instance, if the party is tasked with swaying a local election in favor of a particular candidate, this guy won't be the first to come up with a plan. But if another character in the party comes up with an idea to make him look like a hero by causing a smallish goblin raid on the town, and having him "lead" the PCs in defense of the town, this wise character might be the one who realizes that attacking the goblin patrol routes on consecutive nights will likely cause a raid, but not an outright war. He might also decide it would be a good idea to have the NPC-to-be-elected mark his arrows with red fletchings, and have the PCs stick red-fletched arrows in the bodies of many of the goblins they kill. He might also be able to guess the best time to attack the goblin patrols so that as many people as possible see the heroism of their candidate as he defends the town, while not being able to see them placing their deceptive arrows. Granted, this particular plan wouldn't likely be used in a good-aligned campaign, but it's not the nature of the plan itself that's important.
Always-Late 10-10-05, 03:42 AM	Hmmm... Think Barliman from LoTR. "He thinks slower than he talks, and less, but he can see through a brick wall in time."
Kuraito 10-10-05, 08:40 AM	Thanks for the help guys. Now I just need to figure out if the church would let him adventure. I mean really, knowing his limits, would you just send him out to do the will of your god? On a side note, I have average cha (10) and my deity is a homebrew, basically kord though. Chaotic Good god of strength. Also, I faced next to no racisim growing up at my temple, so with my wisdom I would understand people don't like me, but with my low int, wouldn't I not know why? Or would my wisdom let me figure out that people don't like me because i'm half-orc, or would I need to ask someone?
Leap 10-10-05, 09:30 AM	Most deities (and maybe even priests ;) ) would realise he would not be up to sophisticated tasks (low int) however he would not be easily fooled or decieved (high wis) and so would make a good fellow for simple tasks. He would probably be best placed as gate guard ("You got pass? No? Then no come in.") as it is simple and he could easily see past fakes and dodgy types :) But he would not be one to be sent on a quest unless as a "caravan guard" or something similar as something to convoluted (like you typical quest) would make his brain ache :D
Zeteg 10-10-05, 09:47 AM	Low intelligence eh? Start rapping.
solbergb 10-10-05, 01:19 PM	Oh I dunno. I would think Kord (or equivalent) would be fine with a 6 int cleric out there adventuring. That deity doesn't value thinking at all, and he'd want his wise, presumably strong cleric out there setting an example through deeds, not words. Leaving him in the cloister would be a waste. However given the high wisdom, this cleric would likely try to team with an intelligent but trustworthy companion, for when someone needs to think quickly, and trust their ideas. (and maybe wake them up and then ask - think Fezzik and the Man in Black in Princess Bride..."my plan is to wake him up. I'll do whatever it takes to wake him up. Then I'll do what he tells me to do.")
Super Guy 10-10-05, 03:13 PM	I'll admit that I have no intentions of reading through this thread. All I'm going to say is: Animals have higher wisdom than humans. Yet they're significantly less intelligent, even when you're talking about octopi, wolves, monkeys, dolphins, etc... Wisdom is, as I like to simplify it, street smarts. Common sense. That's how you survive on your own. That's why animals are better at it than humans, usually. I try not to associate Wisdom with the idea of philosophy, which is what I think a lot of people get caught up on. Philosophy in and of itself is related to Intelligence.
OamuTheMonk 10-11-05, 01:48 PM	"Stupid is as stupid does."
Xaktsaroth 10-11-05, 02:17 PM	My interpretation would be his perception is amazing, but he lacks the tools needed to express this in a clear fashion. Example: Knows what a horse is. Sees a cow for the very first time, notices it's similar to a horse(4 legs, bigish belly) but also notices the differences(colouring, peoples attitude towards it and such, people don't seem to ride them) He'd probably ask why there's a fat horse there. I'd probably play him along those lines, tying new things he experiences into the old things he knows, which would make explaining things to other people difficult(I.E, low int) "Friends! I saw a small child on a small furry horse and he was hurting people!" "Urrr, that's a halfling, on a riding dog, and he's charging that guy over there." "Charging?" "Run in a straight line." "If it's only in a straight line, why doesn't the guy move to the side?" "Good question. :P" That's how I'd do it anyway. With low int or low wis characters, they seem to fall into the comic relief roll with low int, high wis played as child-like innocence, and high int, but low wis as, well, Fizban from the DragonLance books. That's how I see it anyway. :P Oh, and about the whole low int /= "Mug like da SMASHS!". PHB stats that any PC with an int of 8 or lower(I think, don't have it handy.) can not "speak properly", so, that can be open to wide interpretation. :P