Post/Author/DateTime	Post
brutus 04-13-04, 11:42 AM	When i am reading the threats i see a lot of times that the DM's are making the characters for the game. I usually make my own characters. I think when you make your own chtr your roleplaying improves aswell becouse you know exactly what your chtr is like and how you want to play it . write down the characters background and your DM also knows what your chtr is like. So my question is why should or should'nt your DM make the characters?
Mr.Musgrave 04-13-04, 11:47 AM	I would never play a game where the DM gave me a character to play. If a DM wants to play out his story like that then he can do it on his own time. Half the fun of the game is coming up with your guy.
brutus 04-13-04, 11:48 AM	Treu making the character is aready a lot of fun
Wolfhart 04-13-04, 11:50 AM	With the exception of Heros Unlimited (which uses random rolls to create your character and not 100% player choice) I would not play a premade character. Indeed the whole fun of playing a character is getting a chance to explore another personality.
Salla 04-13-04, 11:57 AM	If it were the first time I'd played a system, I'd be willing to accept a pre-generated character to get used to the system. I'd like to have some input, though ... basically, telling the DM what I'd like to play and let him deal with the specifics. When starting a new game system (not just a new game!) that nobody's familiar with, I often create sample characters, run an episodic adventure or two, then let people make their own characters (I wish someone had done this when I was introduced to Vampire). Once I get my brain wrapped around the system, I much prefer to make my own characters, though. The personal touch is always nice.
Winternova 04-13-04, 12:08 PM	Not only do I create my own character, but if I have a recurring character idea, I jot it down. That way I've got a small 'stable' as it were, and I let my DM look over them to see which one would work best in his world.
Loftower 04-13-04, 12:14 PM	As a DM I tend to give my players history of what happened to their character before the adventure began. I do not include how their character reacted, that is up to them. I generally have multiple histories at the beginning of every campaign covering all of the allowed races and classes (yes, this is a lot of work). By doing this in advance there is no chance of a player crying favoritism, or claiming that I am disallowing a class or race just because he or she wants to play it. That said, I do not hand out pre-generated characters and I do not enjoy playing them. I have allowed players to pick up friendly NPCs already in use, but only as an option. I could also see justification for handing a newbie their first character rather than trying to explain everything that might happen before they’ve played the game. I gave the following history to a character who joined a group in progress. Would this bother you as a player? Archer (Human, Halfling, Elf, or Half-Elf) You were born in Die Steinmauer – a barony where humans, elves, halflings, and dwarves live under one ruler (and in many places, as neighbors). You grew up in Quersdorf, a crossroad town near the geographical (and farming) center of Die Steinmauer. You learned much of your archery there from a halfling named Weissen Grossfuss (the name literally means “Whitey Big-foot”, which seems to be his real name and is spelled with letters that I can’t reproduce on my computer). Your initial practice was mostly directed at farm vermin where you were in constant competition with Wolfgang Hoehlwohner (another halfling) for bragging rights. (It’s up to you whether this competition was friendly or bitter.) You have done some wolf and giant hunting (the popular blood-sports among the “real men” of Die Steinmauer), generally in groups of 6-12 (that is, 6-12 of you against 1-4 of them). You have 15,000 experience points, mostly from this. You frequently hunted with a ranger named Siegmund Glokkendrucker, a man with whom you would trust your life (and have done so in the past). Two years ago you were away from Die Steinmauer visiting friends in Seestadt when a number of significant events took place. Baron Ernst von Steinmauer III succeeded his father, Ludwig. Ludwig poised himself because he unwittingly gave a fraudulent gift to King Karl. Ernst called a muster and built an army to attack a city in the much-feared Garthian Empire where Ludwig had purchased the gift. Upon your return home in the spring you found that you had missed the army and could only wait for their return. Many people were pessimistic about the young Baron’s chances, however the attack was successful beyond even imagination. They not only sacked and raised the city, but they did so before the alarm could be raised. The army actually came back with more soldiers than it had when it left – a large number of dwarven slaves (a completely foreign concept to you) escaped from a Garthian city and joined the army on the march. Last summer Siegmund and a dwarf named Seftog approached you to carry some messages for the freed dwarves. You were chosen partially because you aren’t a dwarf and you weren’t involved in the sack so the Garthians wouldn’t suspect you, but mostly because Siegmund knew you were willing to go. Your friend also spoke of some people you might meet. He has hunted giants with some “strange” people from the south and they were all part of the team that killed Feolf (a giant chieftain). “Aschpera, Ski von Wallitar, und Binsa, mit Robbi und Zeiliv Borani und Julan der Tot” (literally “Julan the Dead”) he describes as “worthy” – from him meaning battle-worthy rather than pious. Seftog knew some of them also, and said they with a dwarf named “Juldras” (who was killed by Feolf) and a man named “Reiheeka” rescued him from freezing to death (this is obviously a painful memory for him). In your journey south you were forced to sneak around a Garthian legion guarding the river pass through some rugged mountain terrain which cost you a lot of time. You made it to the city of Genidam before winter closed the roads and delivered most of the messages. You still have one message for a dwarf who is now in Bethteley. The best directions that you could get to Bethteley is “over the mountain pass and up the river”.
Moonstonedragon 04-13-04, 12:23 PM	For newer players i let them make a char but give them very few choices, i try to keep them away from spell casters and the stronger weapons and feats till they get a little used to the game. Thats about all i do i had one time we were all waiting for this player who said he wanted to try to dm, keep in mind this player powergames his char to the extreme, always with unreal power weapons and armors from books like ultimate equipment guide. He camed and the first thing he handed us was our chars, the stat rolls, hps, weapons, armor, items his reason "I dont want you guys trying to powergame or over power your char" this from a guy that can do over 100 dmg by 8th level we basically just laughed and all left that day.
MageofMyth 04-13-04, 01:23 PM	Originally posted by Loftower I gave the following history to a character who joined a group in progress. Would this bother you as a player? Yes it would bother me. Why because most of the fun of starting a new character is creating their history. If the DM does it then they should play that character, not me.
PhaedrusXY 04-13-04, 01:50 PM	Originally posted by Loftower I gave the following history to a character who joined a group in progress. Would this bother you as a player?No. My character creation process usually goes like this: 1) Come up with a general idea of what I want the character to be like. 2) Pick race, class(es), feats, etc that allow the character to fulfill my general idea. 3) Pick a background story and alignment that fits 2. I'm not that great at coming up with background stories, anyway. I often only have a very vague and short one by the time the game starts. As it goes on and I get a feel for how I play the character, and how the campaign world is, I will add stuff to the background story (with the DM's approval). So I'd actually be perfectly happy if the DM gave me a background story to help my character fit into his world, assuming that nothing in the story stuck out as anathema to my character concept. But I would not like it if the DM gave me a complete character to play. Suggestions would be fine, but not the whole thing. Alot of the fun for me is coming up with the general character concept and then seeing how to best fulfill that.
Winternova 04-13-04, 01:57 PM	As a player, having a full backstory placed upon my character would be a little difficult to handle, but as a DM I do tend to place small things into a character's past (usually just their recent past) to jump start the adventure such as "Recently, your character has been wracked with recurring nightmares..." or "For the past week you have had the feeling that you're being watched..."
Beamup 04-13-04, 02:55 PM	To present a counterpoint: Well, as a DM, in the next session of my campaign I'll be giving a player a PC made by me with background, history, and some personality aspects pre-defined. The reason I'm doing this is that his PC is currently dead and waiting for a raise dead, and I want him to have something to do during the next session. So it's a temporary one-session thing, which I'm using to advance the plot and present some interesting character interactions, to fill in for an out-of-commission PC. Under these specific circumstances this is a reasonable thing to do (especially if the DM checks with the player first to see if it would be OK, as I did). So at times it's appropriate for a DM to dictate what character a player will use. But in general, especially for a long-term PC, it's a very bad idea. P.S. Interestingly, the PC I'm having him use is a copy of the PC I'm playing in the campaign he's DMing.
Bacon and Eggs 04-13-04, 03:01 PM	I'm usually good with it either way. Sometimes taking over the NPC(DMPC's) in a campaing gets rid of that messy "so you meet up" encounter. Sometimes it gives me a chance to roleplay another persons concept and run with it. That is if I'm allowed to run with it. I've never had a bad experience in being assigned a character. Then again, I may be a special case.
Edymnion 04-13-04, 04:23 PM	If the DM handed me a character sheet already filled out, I would hand it right back to him as I walked out. I'm a VERY big proponent of "The world belongs to the DM, the characters belong to the Players." The DM does not get to tell the player what to play, how to play it, or anything else, no more than the players get to tell the DM how to run a monster or what the layout of the land is. PCs belong to the players that created them. The DM has no right to touch that. They can set up encounters for them, they can say that something simply doesn't exist in that world, but they should NEVER be allowed to say "No, you can't be a Sorcerer, because the party would be better off with a Rogue, here's your Rogue character." DM that pulls that kind of crap deserves to be beaten about the head and shoulders with his own DMG and told to actually read the thing next time.
Conaill 04-13-04, 05:50 PM	Pregenerated characters work GREAT for one-shot games where soem of the players may not know the game system. Let's you skip past all the character building and maximize your playing time by jumping right into the story. In the one-shot I've played in, the pregenerated characters would typically have a short background write-up, including how they interact with the rest of the members of the party. (Also makes it easier for the DM to write an interesting one-session adventure!) The DM would go through the list of pregenerated characters and ask who wanted to play which one. Pick one, read it over, and you can be ready to run in 15 minutes tops. Definitely worth it, say, in a convention setting where you only have a few hours to play in the first place... For anything *other* than one-shot adventures where time is at a premium, I have to agree: drawing up you own character is the way to go.
Salla 04-13-04, 06:07 PM	Originally posted by MageofMyth Yes it would bother me. Why because most of the fun of starting a new character is creating their history. If the DM does it then they should play that character, not me. Yes, that's important. But let's say this is the first time you've played, say, in the Forgotten Realms. Yeah, it'd be nice to be able to make up your own history, but you can't because you don't know jack-all about FR (or Eberron, or the World of Darkness, or Rokugan, or ...). Until you find out something about the history, politics, landmarks, acceptable races/classes, etc, you really can't make up a history without risking it being very incongruous. So, for the introduction to a game world, I support a pre-generated party ... just one or two games 'til people figure out what's what, then go for it from there.
StormKnight 04-13-04, 06:15 PM	Pre-made characters: great for one-shot games intended as intros or for a very particular purpouse. Great for conventions where you have very limited time and the characters won't be played for more than one session anyway. Other than that, I always have the PCs make their own characters.
Nived 04-13-04, 06:28 PM	I would hate to come to a game session and be handed the character I'm going to play. So as a DM I try and be as accomidating as possible when I run a game. Just a for instance I run Dragonlance games, so I let players pick from any race presented as a PC race in the DLCS and AoM books, this means that there are at least 8 races with level ajustments (Ogre, Half Ogre, Irda, Centaur, Kapak Draconian, Baaz Draconian, Dimernesti Elves and Dargonesti Elves), and I've had to change parts of campaigns to work sme characters in, but we're there to have fun, and I try and let players play what they want. Of course I use the "Monster level progression" houserule, and have progressions set up for all the races so its not all that unbalancing. My point is that I think its important that people have the freedom to choose their characters. Occationally I need to speak with a player out of game to try and work together to make a character concept work within the game. Remember Compromise is your friend.
Ringmereth 04-13-04, 06:31 PM	I make my own. And wouldn't play with a pregenerated one without a very good reason for any length of time. Now, if I was given a general background with some room for creativity ("You came from a mountain village outside of Greyhawk"), or a general character type ("The party has been looking around for a brave warrior for several weeks, and you are the man (or woman) they found"), I would go with it. But if the DM comes up with your character's background, personality, and goals, you're doing nothing but going along with the DM's story and rolling a few dice. Not much fun. On the DM side, I think that alignment and, in rare cases, class restrictions are okay. Having a group with a paladin and a blackguard together can lead to problems, and so can having multiple wizards in a low magic world. But anything more than that is too much. The best reason against DM made characters is that rolling up 4 or more characters with detailed backgrounds wastes a lot of time. Have the players do it!
Dragon Snack 04-13-04, 07:15 PM	My first reaction is to say "NO WAY!!!" However, I actually have made up characters for people as a DM. I had people play NPCs while their character was out of the picture and one person actually continued to play that character (I hear that another guy uses the character I gave him to play as an NPC in games he DMs as well). As others have mentioned it makes bringing in someone new to the system a lot easier. I've found that often the new persons PC will look like someone elses (whoever helped them make up the character) idea of a good character anyway. I've also played "NPCs" for DMs. In one campaign, my character was out of the game (for OoC reasons I had missed the previous week and the party wasn't back from the adventure yet), so the DM had me play the BBEG for the night. I ended up killing 2 PCs (3 if you count the fact I killed one of them TWICE) and it was the most intense battle we fought in that campaign (the NPC had killed one of the PCs sisters, so there was some in character taunting going on as well). And this wasn't even a primary BBEG. In another campaign I'm playing a PC for a guy who left the group (we are in the middle of a dungeon, so having him just take off would mess with the continuity, plus he is the 'front line fighter' - even though he's a Ranger). I play him pretty consistant with the way the other guy played him, other than only using one weapon two handed (which annoys the DM) and making him more apt to go along with the rest of the parties plans (which the DM has overruled me on once). The DM will be taking him back over soon, as he has his own plans for the character (fine by me, as I want to take Leadership soon anyway). Then there is the random times that I play another group members character if they have to miss a session. I always seem to be the one tapped to do this - I really should start giving away their magic items while I'm controlling them... :smirk: So, to answer you question, I very much prefer to run a character that I myself have created, but it's not outside the realm of possibility if one is handed to me. I doubt I would want to play one long term however.
Duke Viper 04-13-04, 10:41 PM	I can only imagine what you people speak of, I am a new player, and I have only had one character. He is an rogue/assassin/druid. yeha I know its a sorta weird combo, but it works. I have gotten to level 20, I am evil, and I have feathered demon wings grafted to me. dont ask why, i just thought it would be cool. My character is an elf. I created it, with the help of my DM, he gave me suggestions on what I could be, and what I could do with each race. I have looked around at every other race since then, but I cant find one that even compares to my current character, I guess im closed minded, cuz I cant see myself playing as another character. So I think that the player should have the final descision in accord with their character, but the DM should provide, help, and assistance on what would be best, and why. Just my opinion
Lael 04-13-04, 11:52 PM	The DM in the campaign I'm currently run with gets us to create characters like this: He lets us come up with a general idea of what we want the character to be like. Possibly including race & class if we can. He then decides whether it will fit into the current campaign. If it doesn't he tries to lean us towards something else. We then have to roll any stats infront of him, but then lets us pick skills, feats, etc our selves. Once we are done he then looks it over and tells us to adjust anything. He provides a semi kind of background for us, or we can create one based on some guidelines and then he elaborates on it later. Most of the new players, and current players who had to remake a new character come in usaualy a level lower then the current member, but he allows us to have a medium magical item which you decide on with his permission. And thats pretty much it. :angel:
Haradim 04-14-04, 01:07 AM	I think I've only used one pre-made character, but I can go either way just fine (pre-defined characters need a thorough pre-defining though). I would generally prefer to make my own though, if for no other reason than making the character yourself is more likely to solidify the character's details in your mind.
Daybreaker 04-14-04, 04:04 AM	It doesn't happen often in our games, but we've got a couple of players who just like to receive varying degrees of help with their characters. One guy likes someone to handle most of the rules and crunchy bits, so that he can focus mostly on the story and background. Another guy is always pressed for time, so he tends to just ask me to make him up a character to play. Last time, I made him a Gnomish Bard/Barbarian.
Tenzhi 04-14-04, 04:39 AM	I strongly prefer to make my own characters, but if someone handed me a character I thought I could play without problems I'd probably accept it. If someone let me make my own character and then gave me a history for it, I wouldn't be bothered by it and I would promptly forget most of it anyway.
Kronk LaSworda 04-14-04, 02:29 PM	Making characters is half of the fun. Playing with the character is the other half. If the GM made it, is he going to play it as well. Is he going to force you to act such and such way because that's in the character's background? Give me a break. If a GM wants to limit certain classes or races for balance, that's one thing. To completely make the character is just plain silly. You might as well watch TV. At least then you can change the channels. :rolleyes:
eudas 04-14-04, 03:42 PM	I find making characters very fun, creative, and enjoyable, but I wouldn't mind it if someone handed me a character to play. I'm sure that almost any character can have quite enjoyable quirks, history, or feat/skill/ability combinations that different players will emphasize different portions of. Two players can take carbon copies of the same character and play it with totally different personalities -- so I think that people saying that their creative license is being impinged upon are being a tad sensitive, as though they were an artist who was told to make a statue who felt his artistic spirit was being hobbled by being limited to statues. Some artists might nod their heads in sympathy, but the rest of the world says, "Whatever, dude." IOW, i think some people are being drama queens about it. They need to refocus their drama on the character. In closing, do you think actors b**** this much when they're handed a character sheet? *smirk* eudas
SnowbearK 04-15-04, 12:51 AM	Apparently not, if Thora Birch, Jeremy Irons, and Bruce Payne are decent examples of acting professionals... :rolleyes:
Eldren 04-15-04, 01:38 AM	In 19 years of playing Dungeons & Dragons, I don't think I've ever once played in a campaign where we didn't make our own characters. The key word there is "campaign". For many one-shots, Dungeon Masters will have pregenerated characters for players to choose from, so that there's an appropriate skill set available for the one-shot the DM wrote. Lots of times, for playing in games at conventions and tournaments, you also have to choose from pregen characters, both so that the Dungeon Master knows everything is on the up and up, and at conventions, also because the playing time is limited, and really well-done character creation can take anything from fifteen minutes to an hour (or more if you have tons of options available to you). But personally, I hate one-shot play, because it's nothing more than interacting with the game mechanic, and if I want that, I can just make PCs at home and run constant grid battles to see how they wind up. That isn't fun, as Dungeons & Dragons is meant to be a generally cooperative endeavor. I prefer campaign-style play because it lets me see a character grow, become more powerful, and become someone they weren't when they started out at 1st level. In such cases, if the Dungeon Master were to insist that I work with a pregen character, I'd probably seek out a new campaign (and DM) to facilitate playing the game.
Lord Psynister 04-16-04, 12:30 PM	Playing with another person's character can be an interresting, and oftentimes fun, experience. Especially if they've got a good background to work with, and give you a bit of his personallity. But, having the DM hand me my character, isn't something I'd be going for. If the party was facing something they couldn't handle very easily, and the DM wanted me to start the game with an NPC to help them through that encounter just so I could get started playing with them right away, then that'd be fine as long as I got to pull my own in at the first opportunity. But, I don't see any reason why any DM should force a player to use a specific character in a mannor such as this.
pog 04-16-04, 02:00 PM	As a player I like as much freedom in character creation as possible. I would find my enjoyment of the game reduced by having a pre-made character thrust upon me. I even find not being allowed access to certain books or resources a little limiting, though I respect the DM's choice in this. A player has little direct control over the game other than in character design, in the vast majority of all gaming sessions the player is reacting to the DM's imagination and creativity - the only outlet of expression the player has is his/her character. As a player I find I spend between game time considering how to best develop or omptimize a character - I would regret not having this freedom. I understand that perhaps one-off sessions and new players might be special cases, but on the whole I say hands off the character sheet!
Arbitrary Aardvark 04-16-04, 04:20 PM	Originally posted by Eldren In 19 years of playing Dungeons & Dragons, I don't think I've ever once played in a campaign where we didn't make our own characters. The key word there is "campaign". For many one-shots, Dungeon Masters will have pregenerated characters for players to choose from, so that there's an appropriate skill set available for the one-shot the DM wrote. Lots of times, for playing in games at conventions and tournaments, you also have to choose from pregen characters, both so that the Dungeon Master knows everything is on the up and up, and at conventions, also because the playing time is limited, and really well-done character creation can take anything from fifteen minutes to an hour (or more if you have tons of options available to you). But personally, I hate one-shot play, because it's nothing more than interacting with the game mechanic, and if I want that, I can just make PCs at home and run constant grid battles to see how they wind up. That isn't fun, as Dungeons & Dragons is meant to be a generally cooperative endeavor. I prefer campaign-style play because it lets me see a character grow, become more powerful, and become someone they weren't when they started out at 1st level. In such cases, if the Dungeon Master were to insist that I work with a pregen character, I'd probably seek out a new campaign (and DM) to facilitate playing the game.
Schizo-RedBlade 04-19-04, 11:27 AM	:king: Actually my DM did this Adventure pretty cool. We pick Class, Race, Age, gender, the whole bunch. Then we make a basic description of our history and he fits it into the game.
Lagomorph 04-19-04, 04:22 PM	ive never played or DMed any game where the characters were premade. as a player, i DO enjoy the fact that my character is tailored to my concept of cool or a specific role that i feel like exploring. as a DM, on one hand its sometimes a ***** to get and keep a party of thieves and paladins together, but it also makes for a slightly more dynamic experience of DMing. but i must say that i would be interested in being given a premade character. as long as that character was made with a consistent personality in mind and i was given the freedom to do with him what i wanted, i think id actually enjoy the opportunity to role-play something different from the personalities that i understand well.
MakoPoser 04-21-04, 10:44 AM	I find that to properly play a character and get into the proper mindset, requires me to consider each stat, each feat and each flaw/merit and finally the why and how of the class chosen. A pregenerated PC at first leve would not be too bad, as it would basically be a template, not really a character. I do not enjoy and have a hard time playing a pregenerated character above 3rd level, just because I have not had the experiance of determining attitude and outlook of the character. When I make a character I first determine race, then sex then class. THen I roll my stats. If I cannot be the class I want then I restart the process using the stats rolled. I usually play rangers or clerics for the most part; so the stats are pretty straight forwared. After I have created the basic character I determine the alignment (which is usually NG) and then I put some random notes on character concepts that I issue to the character, such as Honesty policy, Views on different subjects and some common sense rules to live by. Each of these is based upon the character sex, race, class and thier background (ie. Where they are from, what thier parents did, and why they are adventuring.) Once the basic concept is complete, the final draft is made up and the fillers are input. This is displayed to the DM initially (Usually with a 3-5 page background story ending at where the character is and what they last did) and after approval the final complete character is created with purchased equipment, mounts, pets as well as a better description (sometimes with a picture created in Poser like this (http://pic1.picturetrail.com/VOL108/966606/1790391/26252166.jpg) so when the first game session happens I am mentally ready to play the character and see the DM's world through thier eyes. Mako.
Darth K'Trava 04-22-04, 09:18 PM	My first game, four years ago, I had a DM pre-gen character as, I believe, did the rest of the group as we were all new to 3rd ed, although only I and another player were new to the game as a whole. The rest were already veterans. It was a halfling paladin that I played to the best of my ability considering I knew nothing about paladins.... Now, the only time I've used pre-gen characters is at conventions. There was one game, ran by a friend who's also a DM of our regular games, where we made characters a couple of hours before the game slot.... But, mostly, we all make our own characters. It's more fun that way, since I've gotten a much better grasp on the game. Usually backstories come later after I get a grasp of that particular character's personality and then try to see what would make that person act so. And then, at the most, it's a page; two at the most. More, and I'd be rather prone to forget stuff. ;) I know how I am. If it's not blatant on the character sheet, then it's oblivious to me! :embarrass