Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pws421 04-15-06, 12:00 AM	I'm in a small group (about 4 players and a DM) of adventurers who have been playing D&D for a while now. Recently, we seem to have come to a dispute of how many "followers" it is fair for a character to have. I am a Wizard, and-- -will soon have a familiar (pseudodragon) -have a steed (hippogriff) -am planning to build an iron golem soon Do you think this is too much?
Shaggy_Shaggs 04-15-06, 12:23 AM	Doesn't look like too much to me. However, it does look like it might be a bit cumbersome for a DM to run in addition to his monsters, NPCs, etc. If you're not already doing so, you should probably offer to control those creatures yourself directly so it's less a burden.
allenchan 04-15-06, 12:53 AM	Assuming you're using feats, gold, class abilities, xp, etc, its balanced. Feats should be that valuable, and stuff. How do you have a hypogriff, is it hired, or a cohort from Leadership?
pws421 04-15-06, 01:05 AM	as i understood from the monster manual, a hippogriff, as well as a pegasus, can be bought as an egg, or young. Also, you can pay extra for them to be raised and trained to be mounts.
DM_Greatness 04-15-06, 01:52 AM	That is likely too much. When you are playing a Heroic game, it should be the players at the table that is getting all the spotlight. Well at least most of it. Every time the DM has to focus on one of your special aspects of one of your pets, that just slows the game down, and takes the spotlight away from the action and the other players. I would say that one 'exta' per player is a nice touch, gives the correct feel, and adds some great roleplaying content without going overboard. - A Sorcerer and his cat - A Psi-Warrior and his crystal - A Cleric and her devoted follower - A Paladin and his mount - A Ranger and his hawk - A Druid and his wolf - A Bard and his attracted Love Interest - A Psion and his ONE Astral Construct - A Wizard and his Golem - A Rouge and his pet rat I think those examples are right on the money. In rare cases a character could have none (like a monk) and in rarer cases a character might have two (a Wizard with cat and a golem). However, having two 'pets' should be very, very rare because it generally isn't worth the real life game time invested.
Dragon Snack 04-15-06, 02:51 AM	Doesn't look bad to me... But then I've seen a (3.0) Druid with 6 animal companions (!?, admittedly 4 of them were small birds of some sort) and a specialist Conjurer who could put out 6+ summoned creatures in a couple of rounds. I don't recall a page number, so it's probably a house rule... We play that low intelligence mounts that are not "connected" (by a game mechanic) to the PC just avoid combat when they are not directed, so unless you were on your Hippogriff it wouldn't be an issue in combat.
King_Bulba 04-15-06, 03:37 AM	That doesnt look bad. Ask your group if they think it matters. Their opinions matter, not ours. Check my sig for my groups size and that doesnt include summons nor undead hehe. The largest you see in my group is a person playing 2 chars as well as 2 undead. Another is his char with his cohort, an undead and his familure. True we are a large party but we dont mind and have some CRAZY battles as well.
taradusis 04-15-06, 09:03 PM	How does your dm modify the challenge rating to take into account you're not a four pc party?If your Dm is doing his job a party like yours should be crawling upwards in levels because of the xp sucking extras you've added to your party. :)
kelvinaw273 04-16-06, 05:17 AM	Depends what level you are and what you do with them. Hippogriff for transport, pseudodragon for adventuring companion and iron golem to guard the lab/stronghold while you are away? Cool. If I were your DM, I would consider that taking all three on adventures was overkill, and would jack up the opposition accordingly. I would also take down the hippogriff with archers and have bridges collapse under your iron golem. And you don't want to see what the local thieves guild have done to your lab when you get home (it's a long walk) ...
Antioch 04-16-06, 02:34 PM	My assumption is that you are either high enough level to legally have obtained those things, or that the DM has prepared for them, having granted access to them. Its certainly not too much, as the Leadership feat can award you with many more things that what you are getting yourself into. The best thing you can do you for your DM at this point is to write up little statistic notecards (cost you a couple bucks for a stack of one-hundred or so) ahead of time to prevent yourself from having to check the books every couple of rounds to see what your new-found allies can and cannot do. Out of combat I dont see any problems with this setup: the golem just follows you or remains wherever you tell it to, the familiar stays at your side, and the hippogriff is stabled. Easy, and gets them all out of the way. A part of roleplaying might be to explain to whatever townguard there is, what exactly those things are and the ability to prove that you are not some sort of invading force. If you happen to have a home, or some base of operations, then you can leave one or both there depending on accomodations. For combat I cant imagine the familiar doing much of anything useful (especially with such a weak poison save DC). The golem will most likely remain near you to defend you, or help tank at the front. This will be easy to manage so long as you have stats ready. the hippogriff is the biggest problem to me, as what it can/will do depends on how it was trained, your ranks in Ride and Handle Animal, and what your DM allows. It might only move to defend itself, it might attempt to protect you (to an extent), or it might run away until the battle is over. You should consult with your DM to determine what it will do during various instances to avoid arguments later. Whatever you agree on, jot this down on the card as well so that you can easily reference it. As for group XP, since the hippogriff is only CR 2, and the pseudodragon a CR 1, I wouldnt factor them into the calculations. None of them gain XP, so they wouldnt receive a share. Depending on your level, I would count the golem in as a factor that makes combats easier, and reduce the XP gained (offset by providing greater challenges to award you). Treasure shares would be unaffected, so making harder things would avoid getting larger hauls. Eventually, there would come a point where even the golem would become larger useless aside from a temporary nuisance to crushing your wizard. At that point I wouldnt really bother considering it as part of the party equation.
Ma'ElKoth 04-16-06, 05:18 PM	How does your dm modify the challenge rating to take into account you're not a four pc party? I doubt he has to. If his wizard is seriously considering building an iron golem (caster level 16th to create) the hippogriff (cr 2, assuming that it's the basic, unmodified version) doesn't really add anything to the character, combat wise, that one of his lower level spells can't already provide. The pseduodragon is a familiar, and thus (I've always thought) doesn't affect the exp the party gains or the CR of monsters they face. Now, when he gets the iron golem, all that changes. The real question you need to ask your fellow players: do you mind splitting the XP 5 ways instead of 4?
Cifer 04-16-06, 05:55 PM	How does your dm modify the challenge rating to take into account you're not a four pc party?If your Dm is doing his job a party like yours should be crawling upwards in levels because of the xp sucking extras you've added to your party. Why should he do that? The familiar is a class feature anyway - the paladin does not have to pay XP for his "smite evil", so neither has the wizard for his familiar. The steed should be taken out of consideration, too. Do all the mounted warriors deduct XP from the others because of their horses? I doubt it. It is an asset and is considered "equipment". The golem, finally, has been paid for with a feat, XP and lots of gold. Would you adjust XP if a fighter buys a new sword (actually a sword enchanted up to it's hilt since it could cost 150.000 gp in order to be equal to the golem) or gets a new feat? I wouldn't. Back to topic: The only ones who can come up with a solution are you and your group. Personally, I would play a few combat scenes with all three creatures to see if it gets too tedious - if it doesn't, your metal buddy is in. Balance-wise, it has been paid for. You might want to overread http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20050923a
Ma'ElKoth 04-16-06, 08:55 PM	One last thought: what exactly do the hippogriff and pseudodragon do in combat other than try desperately not to die? At 15/16th level your enemies could probably kill both creatures completely by accident. To you, Cloud Kill is an inconvenience. To them, it's instant death.
pws421 04-17-06, 12:38 AM	in the case that the pseudodragon would be an inconvienience, what familliar should I choose instead?
taradusis 04-17-06, 01:37 AM	You may want to consider the Improved familiar feat.Just how many followers has your party of 4 been dragging around,16 or more?