Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lithous 07-16-05, 05:11 PM	:confused: here it is. my friends and i have started to play, and we were wondering at what stat levels are you wrong? ie: STR of 50 should you breake things? INT of 40 do you go insane??? how much is to much? :confused: What if you have been playing for about a year, and your dm gives you enough to buy the items//then what? :confused:
MJ the Prophet 07-16-05, 05:33 PM	Well, if you've just started play, you won't see numbers that high any time soon. Like, for years. Its possible to see scores above 20 at the start, but that's just going beyond what humans can do. Creatures regularly have scores in this range. As levels increase, you might pass the 30 mark, if you're really pushing for high stats, and the DM is generous with stat-boosting items. Now, you're looking at exceptional scores, well beyond the conception of most humans, but not unknown. Getting up into the 40s and 50s, you're looking at epic play. The rules for epic advancement are potentially limitless; a 400th level character with stats well into the hundreds is theoretically possible (though highly unlikely). As your stats increase, you never reach a point where they are a hindrance. You may have the strength of Thor (92, incidentally) or the wisdom of Athena (a 45, by the book), but while the gods may be jealous, there is no direct penalty.
Coronat 07-16-05, 05:41 PM	10 is common. Your PC is not common but a bit stronger. Like 12/13/14
Pryrates 07-17-05, 03:53 AM	Having a high numbered stat will not cause your character to go crazy or break everything he touches. a stat of 10 is what the average human has in that ability, everything over that is above average, and below that...well you can figure it out. Having stats as high as you listed is unlikely to impossible though at anything but epic levels at which point it becomes more likely, my friends epic barbarian had a strength of about 47 i believe when he was in a rage. So high stats do become possible but not for a good long time.
colm_l 07-17-05, 05:25 AM	Having stats as high as you listed is unlikely to impossible though at anything but epic levels I'd disagree with that statement but not what you're saying. Stats like that are possible below lev. 20- they just require a pretty focused character. ie. (off the top of my head) Starting Str. 18 (18) Orc +4 str (22) Inherent boost +5 (27) Item of str +6 (33) level progression boosts: +5 (38) 10 levels in war hulk +20 (58) There is no point where a high ability score causes you side-effects. DnD is heroic fantasy - sure a real life person with str 30 will shatter his own hand if he punches someone that hard, but this kind of logic doesn't really apply in this genre. If you're using the CR system a score of ~30 at level 10 will skew it considerably.
katarl 07-17-05, 07:38 AM	Having really good characters are a great part of epic play. Players previously uninterested become excited to be so powerful, and do so much. Epic play in many ways is the stereotype of DnD, powerful heroes battling gods and dragons, in true classical style. Players don't always want to be realistic, sometimes they want to be able to do whatever. This in mind, no stat is 'too' high, but there must always be a bigger fish, with a better score, to keep them interested. Int 40 would not make someone insane, it just makes them immensely intelligent and logical, with insights beyond what ordinary people have. Being smarter than your friends doesn't put your sanity in question. Having a Str of 72 however, as a medium character would mean that your muscle mass would be so great that it would crush your organs, and smash your bones into a fine powder. If your strength becomes so great that your body collapses back into itself, it becomes supernatural. I think that leverage, rather than muscular endurance would be emphasised here (supporting WotCs rules for lifting), or else your strength would have to be supported by some magical force. If you want to see how huge stat scores are seen in other media, look at superhero comics. Superman must have a huge Str score, and spiderman an epic Dex. They show how these can be handled.
Jonnadiah 07-17-05, 09:57 AM	Chances are, with insane stats like a 50+ strength, your characters should be considered in all intents and purposes, Demigods. There might even be some groups of religious followers involeved... I think it's really up to the DM as to what is high and what is too high.
Lyinginbedmon 07-17-05, 11:00 AM	The trouble with increasing ability scores is that with the right friends they can be increase phenomenally with little difficulty. For example, in the first group I was in, I played a Wizard called Morganth, and there was also a Dwarf Fighter named Delvar. Delvar had a major fascination with mining, breaking things, etc. whilst Morganth was fascinated with anything mystical, historical, magical, or technological. As a result, it wound up that Morganth implanted devices into Delvar's body that increased his Strength by 10 points, whilst simultaneously decreasing his Constitution score by 5 points, due to the new components. Now, even though Delvar was eventually crushed in one of his architectural projects in a mountain, the additional Strength points served him very well, since it effectively increased his Strength bonus by 5 points. Now, even if Delvar hadn't been crushed under the mountain, Morganth could have continued re-inventing the components and making them even more powerful. And even though it would likely be offset by a drop in another of his ability scores as a consequence, Delvar's strength would have been nigh-on infinite. Alternatively, 5 consequitive wish spells, or numerous magic items could be used instead of direct body augmentation. But do we ever hear about anyone crushing themselves with their Strength? No. Do we ever hear about the high Mage of Athena being admitted? No. And do we ever hear about the world's number one Bard falling into a catatonic state because of his own Charisma? No. And why do we never hear about these things happening? Simply put, there's no real possibility that an unbelievable ability score is going to cause a character's downfall by 'sheer awesomeness'
Liwmial 07-18-05, 07:55 PM	I think that at some point (50+; maybe higher int.) a player, while not actually insane, may be perceived as quite mad. IMO, his thought process would be so advanced, his motives so far beyond our understanding, that the general people would no longer understand him. And that which people do not understand they usually fear. Labeling him as insane would be society's way of justifying there fear (and my poor spelling), so that they could proceed with their existence.
Dragontooth 07-18-05, 11:38 PM	I'd disagree with that statement but not what you're saying. Stats like that are possible below lev. 20- they just require a pretty focused character. ie. (off the top of my head) Starting Str. 18 (18) Orc +4 str (22) Inherent boost +5 (27) Item of str +6 (33) level progression boosts: +5 (38) 10 levels in war hulk +20 (58) Only problem with this is an Orc can't become a war hulk. You have to be Large or Larger to qualify for the war hulk PrC.
weasel fierce 07-19-05, 01:01 AM	Stats that high are so out of whack that we can barely comprehend them. Usually they just wind up being a source of extra plusses on dice rolls or whatnot. Ultimately though, it comes down to what you want to have in your game.
captainmorley 07-19-05, 01:26 AM	i have a 48 in charisma at lvl 10 and my bluff and diplomacy skills are as high as ballzebuls what would i be labeled i mean i could charm anyone into anything and get w/e i want and im not a sorcerer lol i just like talking so anyways what would i be labeled as or what would happen to my insane score?
Arkonth 07-19-05, 10:43 AM	Well captainmorley, your probably playing in what we call a "Monty Haul" Campaign. That is to say one where ridiculous magical items or other enhancements have boosted your abilities ridiculously out of proportion to your level. Some pople enjoy this, but more commonly PCs are too hard to challenge and level advancement becomes so meaningless, that the game gets dull and boring. Or, another cause of your skewed scores could be rules misunderstanding. Do you understand the skills system? At level 10 you can only have 13 skill points in any one skill, so having scores equal to Beelzebub's, would require additional bonusses from somewhere else, problably something like a magical item. Or alternately, maybe your not familiar with how bonusses stack? Bonusses with the same name don't stack. Thus, a Cloak of Charisma +4 doesn't stack with an Eagle's Splendor spell because both offer an enhancement bonus to Charisma. Personaly, I don't like playing characters so ahead of the usual powercurve, but you seem happy with yours, and there's no wrong method of play as long as everyone has fun.
KoboldSlayer 07-19-05, 12:19 PM	Only problem with this is an Orc can't become a war hulk. You have to be Large or Larger to qualify for the war hulk PrC. In case you ever want to do this with an orc... Get an item that continuously functions that puts Righteous Might upon you. (Increase by size category, among other things. Use item creation rules in DMG for price.) This can be great...until the item is hit with dispel magic, which temporarily surpresses it, and all your "Large" equipment falls off your now medium-sized body and your weapon is too big to wield. Anyway...a creative idea one of my players had that I thought I would pass along. It can definitely help your stat boosts (Str in particular) to be larger.
Wenin 07-19-05, 01:57 PM	In case you ever want to do this with an orc... Get an item that continuously functions that puts Righteous Might upon you. (Increase by size category, among other things. Use item creation rules in DMG for price.) This can be great...until the item is hit with dispel magic, which temporarily surpresses it, and all your "Large" equipment falls off your now medium-sized body and your weapon is too big to wield. Anyway...a creative idea one of my players had that I thought I would pass along. It can definitely help your stat boosts (Str in particular) to be larger. But you can't advance in a class, based on the magic items you possess. I barely know 3rd Edition, but please tell me I'm correct.