Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Priest_of_Shaundakul 03-31-06, 05:27 PM	Assuming they fail an important mission and others are killed...
metamind 03-31-06, 05:33 PM	if it is a samurai, very LG anyone else, no
Priest_of_Shaundakul 03-31-06, 05:36 PM	Hm, for Samurai however, I thought it was more of a ritualistic thing, and not fueled by emotion? :confused: Anyhow, this tale pertains to both a LG Wizard and Paladin that were of the same church who couldn't protect a caravan on it's way to set up trade. Suffice it to say, the ensuing ambush by the War Trolls wasn't pretty.
Donraj 03-31-06, 05:36 PM	I'd say its perfectly in character. A sense of depression and the impulse to end it all after that sort of tramua kind of cuts across alignments. I'd even venture to say that a lawful good character might be more prone to suicidal impulses, seeing as they set themselves up to a pretty high standard of conduct and therefore are going to be hurt more when they fail to live up to it. Plus a good character is much more likely to feel guilt about the consequences of hs actions, I would think.
metamind 03-31-06, 07:19 PM	I'd say its perfectly in character. A sense of depression and the impulse to end it all after that sort of tramua kind of cuts across alignments. I'd even venture to say that a lawful good character might be more prone to suicidal impulses, seeing as they set themselves up to a pretty high standard of conduct and therefore are going to be hurt more when they fail to live up to it. Plus a good character is much more likely to feel guilt about the consequences of hs actions, I would think. I conquer. Have a cookie. :cookie:
Callista 03-31-06, 07:35 PM	I've studied depression and suicide--out of curiosity and because it has affected my family--and I would say, yes: Any alignment can feel depression or even feel suicidal. The combination of inherited tendencies (this would be, in-game, the character's stats), events in a person's life, and physical health (the worse, the more likely a person is to become depressed) can and do affect people with all sorts of moral and ethical viewpoints. Here I am considering suicide as the result of depression, not a suicidal action to save others or further some cause, made by someone who would otherwise want to live. A LG character has more resources and fewer reasons to commit suicide than most characters; but his life is also quite stressful and depression is more likely. Lawful: This person believes in order, society, and some code of honor. A code of honor may prohibit or allow suicide; if it prohibits suicide, the Lawful person will become much more depressed than his nonlawful counterpart before considering suicide; however, going against a code of honor is still possible, because depression, at its worst, begins to affect rational thought. Belief in order and society can also go either way: A Lawful person may believe suicide would hurt the society (by hurting others, making his skills unavailable, or setting a bad example) or help society (by removing an unfit or harmful member from it). All in all, a Lawful person is just about as likely to commit suicide as a Chaotic person; though his innate orderliness will tend towards making the decision a carefully planned, rather than an impulsive, one. Methods should tend towards final, very deadly and carefully-planned. Good: A Good-aligned person believes in helping others. Most Good-aligned people tend towards stable relationships with others (with exceptions for the impersonal altruism of a Good-aligned loner, and the Good-aligned person who becomes "addicted" to a harmful relationship in the misguided interests of helping that person--i.e., codependency). Due to the combination of stable relationships and consideration for others, a Good person is less likely to commit suicide than an Evil person, all other things being equal. Good people will generally treat others in a non-hurtful fashion, and this often fosters friendships. Whether they choose to seek help from those friends is a completely different story: Some Good-aligned people will believe that they should not burden others with their problems; some will believe that their problems prevent them from helping others effectively and thus must be solved (leading to requests for assistance). The Good person has the same interests in society in general as the Lawful person has, though "Good" puts the emphasis on well-being of these people, not necessarily the order and stability of society; so the decision to commit suicide (because it will remove themselves--the "problem"--from others' lives) or not to do so (because others will grieve and be hurt) is made generally with others in mind. Methods should tend towards those which will shock others the least. The big questions for a suicidal LG character: --Does my code of honor prohibit suicide? --Will my suicide destabilize the society/order of those around me? --Will my death hurt others? --Does my deity prohibit suicide? Will the afterlife be worse for someone who arrives there by his own hand? The more "yes" answers to those questions, the more likely that a LG character will not commit suicide; however, as I said before, depression can cause unrealistic thinking and consequent rationalization or denial of the consequences of suicide on the character.
ArcTan 04-01-06, 02:09 AM	Yeah, see, there's often absolutely no correlation at all between being a good person and feeling good, despite the unfortunate multiplicity of meanings that word can have in our society. I'm surprised this even comes up. The most cliched reason for a character in a fantasy setting to wish to commit suicide is irrational guilt over a failure, and LG characters have the most reasons to feel that kind of guilt, especially in a world as violent and capricious as D&D.
DaMullet 04-01-06, 02:19 AM	I conquer. You conquer what? Spain? Eberron? What? On topic, I also agree that suicide is a good out for a Paladin. Especially if there is no way to get the others raised.
PossiblyInsane 04-01-06, 02:22 AM	charachters are people people can be depressed no matter what is happening they could have the good life and want to die so i would say sure, why not, they can feel suicidal
Callista 04-01-06, 02:32 AM	Okay, yeah, if your LG guy is the only survivor of what would've been a TPK, it's a good (RP-wise) way to end his story. Except that it might not be, strictly, Good (alignment-wise). You have your basic LG guy who's just failed a mission... he feels like he's a total failure. Maybe he's a paladin or cleric who's even lost his powers over some minor evil deed committed in desperation. No wonder he's depressed. But if he could find a way out of depression, get himself an atonement if necessary, and go back to fighting evil, then he could still help an awful lot of people. When you're LG, you think of yourself as a part of a society. And when you're a part of a society, you have responsibility towards that society to help whenever needed: You are, in essence, a resource that society has--just like land or magical power or the strength of a deity--which can be used for good or evil, or can be destroyed. If a LG person commits suicide, he is either fully convinced that he is worthless as a resource to his society, or he believes that his presence causes active harm. This might not be the truth--it usually is not--but a LG person is most likely to commit suicide if he believes it is true. This is one of those "ask your DM" issues: If a PC is deluded by insanity (i.e., suicidally severe depression) though not by magic, is he still responsible for his actions? Of course, this won't matter unless the PC is actually raised, or if the DM gives an account of the character's afterlife; but it does apply if you plan to use mental illness at all in your campaign.
Witch 04-01-06, 04:34 AM	Okay, yeah, if your LG guy is the only survivor of what would've been a TPK, it's a good (RP-wise) way to end his story. Except that it might not be, strictly, Good (alignment-wise). I concur. Your points that could make it good are valid, too. But they should not just kill themselves because they failed their mission once. That would not be a good act.
Callista 04-01-06, 05:06 AM	But they should not just kill themselves because they failed their mission once. That would not be a good act. Or a sign of a very unstable mind indeed, to take only one failure to completely despair (exceptions include deaths of one's entire family/hometown/home plane)... Yes, of course suicide, in the absence of extenuating circumstances (threat of capture, heroic sacrifice, etc.), isn't a Good action, and usually isn't Lawful either. Still, insanity (as in "the character isn't thinking rationally") is a reason, if not quite an excuse. Now here's an interesting question: If a character took their own life and was consequently the subject of a Resurrection-type spell, would they want to return? Maybe the answer to that one is different for different characters... In the LG case, in which suicide results from the (often incorrect) perception that he can no longer be of use to others, the character might discover, once dead, that he was incorrect about actually being useless, and want to return.
pres_man 04-01-06, 07:58 AM	How reasonable is it for a LG to want to commit suicide? Well if he has a really bad DM, probably fairly reasonable. :devil: