How should I go about this? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How should I go about this? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DarkfireAngel
11-08-07, 01:15 PM Awhile back another player in my group and I had a minor falling out over totally out of game issues which we resolved, at least I felt so. We'd played for a few games in a new campaign and I felt like he was excluding me from the game; we use the training rules and he would make plans to foil my characters advancement goals, he would cast spells in my characters direction but avoid doing so for other characters, I would cut off while trying to speak to npc's or other players and pretty much get left out of in group conversations. I spoke to our dm and we dealt with it. Or so I thought again.
We've now started a new campaign and had to submit story lines and what we'd enjoy having our characters doing. I decided to play a smart/tactical fighter and said as much, the next week as soon as we got into combat he started to bark out orders, when I tried to say something he told me not in combat. This went on for awhile, so I decided to screw it and try make the most of the diplomatic side of my character, once again the next week he took over that role. I spoke to him and the dm and he reasons that I'm not making enough effort to roleplay what I said and that his characters just stepping in because I'm not good enough. The dm agree's and says I must also make the effort to speak up, and I have tried but feel stymied when I do. I really feel like the dm is playing favorites and that the player is just bringing out of game issues into the game because he won't deal with them outside. How do I go forward with this? Should I ask the group how they feel?
Mrichy555
11-08-07, 01:36 PM Bark out better orders if your so tactical
LSMFT
11-08-07, 01:55 PM I decided to play a smart/tactical fighter and said as much, the next week as soon as we got into combat he started to bark out orders, when I tried to say something he told me not in combat.Are you? I’m not talking about the character, I mean you the player.

I don’t mean to offend, but as a tactician, how do you rate? If you as a player are not able to make really, really good tactical decisions in a combat encounter, then it is really hard to play a guy who does, let alone roleplay a guy who does.
DarkfireAngel
11-08-07, 03:08 PM I've played tactical characters before and I'm adept at thinking on the flying and quick planning. So far his tactics are pretty much for the support characters to attack from range while myself and the other fighter herd opponents his way or to use our combat tricks to hinder opponents so he can kill them. I've tried discussing other tactics out of combat and he ignores me or claims his dwarf knows better than any elf. Out of combat he's louder and more vocal than anyone else so the rest of the party is rail roaded into listening to him while I get told off for hogging the spot light if I try be just as vocal.
I've tried to give out better orders than him but he jumps in claiming that we can't plan during battles and that I must keep quiet and the dm agrees. I would end up giving up turns just so I could shout suggestions to other party members, so that he would be happy that I wasn't getting free actions, but then he'll mess them up claiming that his way is better. It happens every time we get into combat, he'll shout out orders just before we roll initiative and then cry foul if I try talk. As I said the dm tends to side with him and so far we've come across foes that play to his strengths and force us into relying on his spells to over come.
key
11-08-07, 03:31 PM Should I ask the group how they feel?
That would only help if you were unsure if what you were contributing was adding value or not. If you feel strongly that your actions are helping the party, and if you believe most of the party would agree, then take the person you had a falling out with aside and ask him to give you space there. If he still comes back with something like "Okay, but if you start to screw up, I'm going to step in", then reply "Okay, but when you step in, let's call a timeout. At that point, out of character, we will ask the group what I did right and what I did wrong and basically ask them if they agree that it was the right move for you to step in or not." If they agree with him, then I think you have to accept that. If they agree with you, then he should back down. If he doesn't back off, it will then be obvious that he's fighting old battles with you.
LSMFT
11-08-07, 04:01 PM I've played tactical characters before and I'm adept at thinking on the flying and quick planning. So far his tactics are pretty much for the support characters to attack from range while myself and the other fighter herd opponents his way or to use our combat tricks to hinder opponents so he can kill them.Well, he sounds like a dick. Your DM sounds like he's letting one player do things that are forbidden to another.

While I look for a better group, I would play a mute. If no one listens and you're getting crap when you try, I'd say nothing.

I would also play my character. If the dwarf thinks he can do tactics better, fine, but there is no onus on the elf to follow his orders.
Etarnon
11-09-07, 04:58 AM I would roleplay out a confrontation, with the dwarf.

"Good sir dwarf, your tactics suck! Let me elaborate..."

When he draws a weapon, accuse him of "Treasonous behavior, in drawing weapons on another party member."

Then claim his leadership is flawed, his methods brutish, and you now call for a party vote as to "Who shall follow this traitorious coward?"

At that point, take charge, or take the dwarf's sword in your PC's gut for being an upstart. If you lose, he'll still respect you as a character, and player, because up till now, he's just shouted you down, yes?

Whatever happens, deal with it on that basis, because it seems like you both want to be in charge, and it's a dominance issue, so either establish dominance or submit.

Or quit the group.
knightwriter
11-09-07, 01:31 PM I think that everyone who is playing should be able to contribute as much or as little as they are comfortable with. It should not be a one sided session ever.
I don't agree that just because he may be a better tactician than you, should preclude you from being able to contribute.
It's obviously taking away some of the enjoyment of the game and possibly you could state that to your dm, who should be making sure everyone is having fun.
FrostWolf
11-10-07, 10:23 AM Regen as a druid, and the first time he hits your beloved pet, wreck up on him.
DarkfireAngel
11-12-07, 10:22 AM I spoke to both the DM and the other player OOC, and then we spoke to the group. What came of that? Not much.

I know now that the group feels that the other player hogs time and abuses his close friendship with the DM to do this.

The group agrees that the player goes out of his way to exclude me, and that the DM has no problems with it because it's all in his character story line.

The other character read all our story lines with the DM's permission before he wrote his and "felt" that my character had most potential to be someone he could antagonise and be in conflict with.

That my DM plays favorites based on what he feels are better character ideas and background and punishes "unrealistic" game play, he stated that he penalized two other party members because they didn't play smart.

The player and the DM are of the opinion that the D20 rules are terrible because they put limits on you. =/ (I have no idea why that came up but it did.)

But most importantly: I need a new group, I don't have the time to take the other players on as a group and none of them are the type to DM. So any idea's how I can find new groups? I live in Durban South Africa there are no local game stores, or gaming clubs =( and gaming online isn't an option for me.
Etarnon
11-12-07, 01:42 PM Right, so start a gaming club.
kelvinaw273
11-13-07, 07:26 AM I spoke to both the DM and the other player OOC, and then we spoke to the group. What came of that? Not much.

I know now that the group feels that the other player hogs time and abuses his close friendship with the DM to do this.

The group agrees that the player goes out of his way to exclude me, and that the DM has no problems with it because it's all in his character story line.

The other character read all our story lines with the DM's permission before he wrote his and "felt" that my character had most potential to be someone he could antagonise and be in conflict with.

That my DM plays favorites based on what he feels are better character ideas and background and punishes "unrealistic" game play, he stated that he penalized two other party members because they didn't play smart.

The player and the DM are of the opinion that the D20 rules are terrible because they put limits on you. =/ (I have no idea why that came up but it did.)

But most importantly: I need a new group, I don't have the time to take the other players on as a group and none of them are the type to DM. So any idea's how I can find new groups? I live in Durban South Africa there are no local game stores, or gaming clubs =( and gaming online isn't an option for me.

So here is your answer:

Get together with the rest of the players and arrange that next time the obnoxious dwarf launches off on his 'I'm leader' stuff ... you all just leave. That's right - walk off and leave him. When he follows, you explain that as he is so awesome, you have decided to let him do the adventure solo and go do something else. If the DM tries to railroad you all into his company, just treat it as a joke and make choo-choo noises around the table.

Annoy the DM as much as possible, and make the game a joke, and explain that as long as the DM wants to play favourites you'll all treat the game with as much respect as he shows you all until you find a new DM - and then he and his friend can game together, on their own, in peace.

If, on the other hand, he wants to cut the favouritism and play nice, you'll be happy to play nice as well.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DarkfireAngel 11-08-07, 01:15 PM	Awhile back another player in my group and I had a minor falling out over totally out of game issues which we resolved, at least I felt so. We'd played for a few games in a new campaign and I felt like he was excluding me from the game; we use the training rules and he would make plans to foil my characters advancement goals, he would cast spells in my characters direction but avoid doing so for other characters, I would cut off while trying to speak to npc's or other players and pretty much get left out of in group conversations. I spoke to our dm and we dealt with it. Or so I thought again. We've now started a new campaign and had to submit story lines and what we'd enjoy having our characters doing. I decided to play a smart/tactical fighter and said as much, the next week as soon as we got into combat he started to bark out orders, when I tried to say something he told me not in combat. This went on for awhile, so I decided to screw it and try make the most of the diplomatic side of my character, once again the next week he took over that role. I spoke to him and the dm and he reasons that I'm not making enough effort to roleplay what I said and that his characters just stepping in because I'm not good enough. The dm agree's and says I must also make the effort to speak up, and I have tried but feel stymied when I do. I really feel like the dm is playing favorites and that the player is just bringing out of game issues into the game because he won't deal with them outside. How do I go forward with this? Should I ask the group how they feel?
Mrichy555 11-08-07, 01:36 PM	Bark out better orders if your so tactical
LSMFT 11-08-07, 01:55 PM	I decided to play a smart/tactical fighter and said as much, the next week as soon as we got into combat he started to bark out orders, when I tried to say something he told me not in combat.Are you? I’m not talking about the character, I mean you the player. I don’t mean to offend, but as a tactician, how do you rate? If you as a player are not able to make really, really good tactical decisions in a combat encounter, then it is really hard to play a guy who does, let alone roleplay a guy who does.
DarkfireAngel 11-08-07, 03:08 PM	I've played tactical characters before and I'm adept at thinking on the flying and quick planning. So far his tactics are pretty much for the support characters to attack from range while myself and the other fighter herd opponents his way or to use our combat tricks to hinder opponents so he can kill them. I've tried discussing other tactics out of combat and he ignores me or claims his dwarf knows better than any elf. Out of combat he's louder and more vocal than anyone else so the rest of the party is rail roaded into listening to him while I get told off for hogging the spot light if I try be just as vocal. I've tried to give out better orders than him but he jumps in claiming that we can't plan during battles and that I must keep quiet and the dm agrees. I would end up giving up turns just so I could shout suggestions to other party members, so that he would be happy that I wasn't getting free actions, but then he'll mess them up claiming that his way is better. It happens every time we get into combat, he'll shout out orders just before we roll initiative and then cry foul if I try talk. As I said the dm tends to side with him and so far we've come across foes that play to his strengths and force us into relying on his spells to over come.
key 11-08-07, 03:31 PM	Should I ask the group how they feel? That would only help if you were unsure if what you were contributing was adding value or not. If you feel strongly that your actions are helping the party, and if you believe most of the party would agree, then take the person you had a falling out with aside and ask him to give you space there. If he still comes back with something like "Okay, but if you start to screw up, I'm going to step in", then reply "Okay, but when you step in, let's call a timeout. At that point, out of character, we will ask the group what I did right and what I did wrong and basically ask them if they agree that it was the right move for you to step in or not." If they agree with him, then I think you have to accept that. If they agree with you, then he should back down. If he doesn't back off, it will then be obvious that he's fighting old battles with you.
LSMFT 11-08-07, 04:01 PM	I've played tactical characters before and I'm adept at thinking on the flying and quick planning. So far his tactics are pretty much for the support characters to attack from range while myself and the other fighter herd opponents his way or to use our combat tricks to hinder opponents so he can kill them.Well, he sounds like a dick. Your DM sounds like he's letting one player do things that are forbidden to another. While I look for a better group, I would play a mute. If no one listens and you're getting crap when you try, I'd say nothing. I would also play my character. If the dwarf thinks he can do tactics better, fine, but there is no onus on the elf to follow his orders.
Etarnon 11-09-07, 04:58 AM	I would roleplay out a confrontation, with the dwarf. "Good sir dwarf, your tactics suck! Let me elaborate..." When he draws a weapon, accuse him of "Treasonous behavior, in drawing weapons on another party member." Then claim his leadership is flawed, his methods brutish, and you now call for a party vote as to "Who shall follow this traitorious coward?" At that point, take charge, or take the dwarf's sword in your PC's gut for being an upstart. If you lose, he'll still respect you as a character, and player, because up till now, he's just shouted you down, yes? Whatever happens, deal with it on that basis, because it seems like you both want to be in charge, and it's a dominance issue, so either establish dominance or submit. Or quit the group.
knightwriter 11-09-07, 01:31 PM	I think that everyone who is playing should be able to contribute as much or as little as they are comfortable with. It should not be a one sided session ever. I don't agree that just because he may be a better tactician than you, should preclude you from being able to contribute. It's obviously taking away some of the enjoyment of the game and possibly you could state that to your dm, who should be making sure everyone is having fun.
FrostWolf 11-10-07, 10:23 AM	Regen as a druid, and the first time he hits your beloved pet, wreck up on him.
DarkfireAngel 11-12-07, 10:22 AM	I spoke to both the DM and the other player OOC, and then we spoke to the group. What came of that? Not much. I know now that the group feels that the other player hogs time and abuses his close friendship with the DM to do this. The group agrees that the player goes out of his way to exclude me, and that the DM has no problems with it because it's all in his character story line. The other character read all our story lines with the DM's permission before he wrote his and "felt" that my character had most potential to be someone he could antagonise and be in conflict with. That my DM plays favorites based on what he feels are better character ideas and background and punishes "unrealistic" game play, he stated that he penalized two other party members because they didn't play smart. The player and the DM are of the opinion that the D20 rules are terrible because they put limits on you. =/ (I have no idea why that came up but it did.) But most importantly: I need a new group, I don't have the time to take the other players on as a group and none of them are the type to DM. So any idea's how I can find new groups? I live in Durban South Africa there are no local game stores, or gaming clubs =( and gaming online isn't an option for me.
Etarnon 11-12-07, 01:42 PM	Right, so start a gaming club.
kelvinaw273 11-13-07, 07:26 AM	I spoke to both the DM and the other player OOC, and then we spoke to the group. What came of that? Not much. I know now that the group feels that the other player hogs time and abuses his close friendship with the DM to do this. The group agrees that the player goes out of his way to exclude me, and that the DM has no problems with it because it's all in his character story line. The other character read all our story lines with the DM's permission before he wrote his and "felt" that my character had most potential to be someone he could antagonise and be in conflict with. That my DM plays favorites based on what he feels are better character ideas and background and punishes "unrealistic" game play, he stated that he penalized two other party members because they didn't play smart. The player and the DM are of the opinion that the D20 rules are terrible because they put limits on you. =/ (I have no idea why that came up but it did.) But most importantly: I need a new group, I don't have the time to take the other players on as a group and none of them are the type to DM. So any idea's how I can find new groups? I live in Durban South Africa there are no local game stores, or gaming clubs =( and gaming online isn't an option for me. So here is your answer: Get together with the rest of the players and arrange that next time the obnoxious dwarf launches off on his 'I'm leader' stuff ... you all just leave. That's right - walk off and leave him. When he follows, you explain that as he is so awesome, you have decided to let him do the adventure solo and go do something else. If the DM tries to railroad you all into his company, just treat it as a joke and make choo-choo noises around the table. Annoy the DM as much as possible, and make the game a joke, and explain that as long as the DM wants to play favourites you'll all treat the game with as much respect as he shows you all until you find a new DM - and then he and his friend can game together, on their own, in peace. If, on the other hand, he wants to cut the favouritism and play nice, you'll be happy to play nice as well.