Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alluvian 03-17-05, 10:06 AM	Okay, I have a psiwarrior character with a really high wis (naturally rolled 18). His int ended up being 11, cha 8. My backstory explains the reasons I am really introverted. Also in there is that I am only an average learner, despite being thought to be a prodigy growing up due to the autohypnosis skills taking shape. As an adult, how do I play this though? How smart is this character? What type of actions/ideas are dictated by the high wisdom? I always thought of wisdom as common sense, street smarts kind of stuff. Intelligence I always thought of as book smarts... but this is where I seem to have an RP conflict with Autohypnosis. This skill basically gives me a photographic memory. Along with the ability to read it would pretty much turn the character into a walking encyclopedia brittanica. I might have an RP out, in that my character is haunted by mistakes of his past, things he desperately wants to forget but cannot, and remembers forever in perfect clarity. On the one hand this might make him NOT want to use his memorization, but on the other hand, the hook I used to get him adventuring was to get his mind on other matters, to travel, to fill his brain with so much that he can finally forget some of what he remembers. The brain does not work that way of course, but my character does not understand that, or the source of his psionic powers. I am going to try to talk my DM into giving me cantrip like abilities based on the next power I am planning on taking to RP these powers slowly bubbling to the surface. But how do I RP lack of book smarts with the ability to memorize anything he wants perfectly?
Hero of Sshamath 03-17-05, 10:33 AM	Well, if you look at the ability modifier for most of the skills in the PHB, you'd see that photographic memory would probably fall under the realm of WIS anyhow. Spot, Listen and Wilderness Lore checks are all based on WIS...So, you'd be very observent, but not very smart. In general, I would play it as almost an idiot sevant, extremely gifted in some areas and totally lacking in others. You could "memorize" things, but lack the ability to comprehend them. So, your discoveries from your memories would likely happen because you spout off about what you remember, but don't know what you're talking about... Example: PC Wiz: We have to find the amulet to destroy the BBEG You: You mean that shiny thing he's wearing around his neck? So, you would see and hear things, but not actually make the connection mentally to what it is or how it works and/or how it is helpful to you. I hope this helps. :D
Owiercyn 03-17-05, 10:35 AM	To start with, remember that Intelligence 11 is slightly above average (maybe IQ 105), so you're no idiot savant. Next, if you want to do a Wisdom/Intelligence dichotomy, you'll want to be the guy who can do great detail work, like listening, spotting, memorizing, all that stuff, but when it comes to putting together the big picture, he has no clue. It's like being able to machine up all the parts of a car, but no idea how to put them together. If you want to do the low Charisma part, have him act very shy and rather hesitant to offer any opinion on anything unless directly asked.
LCD2YOU 03-17-05, 10:36 AM	First, no character is smarter then the player. So how, if you're relatively a smart person play an average, or below, character? Let me state that IMHO, a Low Int, High Wis PC is one of those guys who may not know the answer right away, but never forgets. You obsess with what you do know. As your character is not a dummy, 11 Int is not low, make your character focused. That's why your Charisma is "low". "How's the weather!?" - like I care. "Hey my daughter just cut her first tooth!" - and that affects me how? (This does not mean evil. Your character says that aloud as he/she could wonder honestly if that is something they're supposed to know, but it just comes out wrong). That would also explain your lack of bonus skill points. You want to learn what you want to learn, everything else is not worth your time or you just can't devout the time. I can see your character as impatient, my needs first type. That does not mean evil nor chaotic. It could mean that, well here's some examples: Lawful - Compulsive, almost obsessed with having everything in it's place so you lack time to devote to your overly complicated tracking system. Chaotic - "Where did I just put that piece of paper?" You spend so much time looking for what you already have, you have no time for othre things. Evil - People waste your time. You have places to be, things to do, riches to be had, etc. Good - "Oh dear, they just told me something! Is it something I should do? I know, I'll ask! - So what does your daughter's first tooth have to do with me?" You care but just not sure what you should care about. Hope that helps.
Hero of Sshamath 03-17-05, 10:48 AM	I would like to note I said "like" an idiot sevant...Not "your character is basically retarded"... :smirk: I'm sorry if my example was a bit extreme, but I was trying to make a point....and remember reading comprehension is your friend. :rolleyes: [Edit: Spelling]
LCD2YOU 03-17-05, 10:51 AM	or your notes. Take two beers and call me in the morning :pint:
Owiercyn 03-17-05, 10:59 AM	Yeah, I think a couple beers are in order. I posted seconds after you did, and didn't even know you had responded yet :tiphat:
LCD2YOU 03-17-05, 11:05 AM	Yeah, I think a couple beers are in order. I posted seconds after you did, and didn't even know you had responded yet :tiphat: Hey today's St. Patty's day! I think it should be a law that one MUST drink to the health of the Emerald Isle, every hour! Gonna go ask the boss if he wants to come with us to our favorite Irish Pubs for lunch.
Alluvian 03-17-05, 11:07 AM	Some good ideas, I think it fits pretty well in my background as well. The charisma thing I already determined was due to being very low key, the character made a big mistake that haunts him the last time he got cocky/flamboyant. So he would much prefer to stay in the shadows. Anonymity is also good as he does not want to be recognized by anyone from his home town where he is probably still a wanted man in regards to an accidental death. The only things to really get a rise out of him are when innocents are put in needless danger and he gets very caustic around the cocky types (he will surely have issues in regards to the PC heading towards the dread pirate PrC). I think I will have him form a partnership with the gnome illusionist. My memory, your smarts kind of thing. I think it will actually be pretty fun. I will probably at one point go out and memorize a library, but have trouble applying that information in enough time for it to be useful. Information I know but don't put 2 and 2 together until right after the time it would have been useful to know. Another way I can annoy the group as well, coming up with useful information on how to defeat the encounter right after we finish the encounter. Smart enough to put the information together, but so much information I am not smart enough to sort through it FAST enough to do much good. I see many INT checks in my future, probably rolled by myself to randomize when I come up with ideas in time or when they are too late.
Hero of Sshamath 03-17-05, 11:49 AM	Sounds about how I would play it...but, in the cases you actually pass an INT check, I'd make it sound more like you stumbled upon the information rather than stating it to be a fact. Much like the example I used before.
ehrin 03-17-05, 02:14 PM	please note, having a photographic memory is one thing. having total (or perfect) recall is a complete different thing. When the two combine, you can look at something and remember every detail years later. When they don't... Real life example: a tech in our IT department has photographic memory. He can see a picture of a schematic, and remember it in detail. he can read a serial number on a computer, and along with a list of parts, problems, etc., regurgitate them back at his warehouse for repair. However, he forgets who's computer it was, or what someone asked him to do in the hallway, and even, things he promised people he would do for them. He can look at a deck of cards, and then repeat them back in order, front to back or back to front, but if his wife calls with a grocery list, he is likely to forget she called, forget to go get the groceries, or forget what she asked him to get. Only if he can visually see it does his photo memory work. Basically, without perfect recall, he may have the photo in his memory, but he forgot where he filed it. Once he gets it, he is solid though...
Roboradish 03-17-05, 02:52 PM	11 is average.
Alluvian 03-17-05, 04:46 PM	Yeah, but autohypnosis includes perfect recall. And it not isolated to written word either. Coupled with there being no punishment for failure you can just take a 20 anytime when speed is not an issue. Even in combat or when time is of the essence, at fourth level the character has a +13 on a DC 15 check. So the information is there and can be recalled. Remembering WHERE it came from may or may not be something you remember. Depends on if the character specifically remembered the content and context or just content. The real issue is being smart enough to remember WHAT should be recalled. Which page on that book about monsters, or traps, or astronomy. Or I know the full book of astronomical navigation, but I can't figure out the math. At which point I would just start reciting to book to our gnome. It is something I have to actively memorize. So if I am hearing someone sing a song and not paying attention I won't remember it anymore than the average joe, but if I decide to memorize it and don't roll a 1, I have it forever. It is a weird skill. Very powerful. I have to make care to use it in a way that is entertaining for all, and not as an annoying knowitall or in a way that annoys the other players or dms. I suspect the party will like the skill though, and use me like a photocopier.
Evil Wizard 03-17-05, 05:11 PM	Average Intelligence, high Wisdom, low Charisma means he's not a great thinker or a good speaker, but he is self-aware enough to realize both of these things. Because of his tendancy to put his foot in his mouth, he'll probably keep quiet about things unless he's absolutely sure about them. His great Wisdom means he's very aware of everything that goes on, and has a great deal of insight into matters. He's no dullard, so he's not going to be prone to doing stupid things, he just won't come to any brilliant conclusions by himself. He'd prefer to offer his sage opinions on matters to the party's wizard or rogue, and let him or her put all the pieces together from there.
Callista 03-17-05, 06:01 PM	Hey, this sounds like a cool character to play. Yep, 11 is average--just think of a student who gets B's and C's in high school with moderate effort, and they probably have something like an 11 INT. If you were/are an A student, play it down a little; you'll have to use your own higher INT to think about what your character's higher WIS means, actually. A caution on the "shy" thing: Be sure you find a way to role-play. Sometimes playing a character who's shy or antisocial really puts you on the outside; so describe your character's actions without really speaking for him/her much. I have a CHA 8, INT 10, WIS 16 barbarian named Anya who doesn't say much; when she does (thanks in part to her backstory, which has her leaving society to live in the wild at age 16), she has a mind a lot like a young teen's (maybe 13; she doesn't want to remember the last part of her stay in society, so she's deliberately forgotten it and sort of "regressed"). She notices things; but she doesn't always understand them--she lives by instinct, emotion and perception rather than building on experience (CN, can ya tell?). Being faced with new things is one of her greatest weaknesses; she is strangely prone to either fear or rage when something she doesn't understand attacks her. I don't mean a new species of humanoid, or that'd mean she had really low INT; I mean the first time she sees an ooze or an undead creature or a construct, or experiences the effects of a certain spell. It takes her a while to figure out strategies for something new; but when she does figure them out, she uses them well (WIS). As for relations with people, Anya doesn't really know how to handle people at all. She's loyal to her friends, but doesn't know how to show it beyond dissecting anything trying to kill them with her daddy's greatsword. She's prejudiced against most "usually evil" races. She enjoys spending time with animals, since she can understand them better than humans (animals, just like Anya, have higher WIS than INT and so live on instinct). However, that doesn't mean she's completely antisocial; she's just a little shy. Strangely enough, she just comes across as a little simplistic; any faux pas she would make due to low CHA and INT are generally stopped by the high WIS. That's my own experiences with WIS, CHA and INT... your mileage may vary.
Alluvian 03-18-05, 11:29 AM	Backstory I made up is that his mother died in childbirth when he was very young, and his father emotionally shut down as a psychological defense mechanism. As children often take after their parents (even if they don't like their parents) my character also became very quiet. Plus living on a farm put a lot of distance between him and the neighbors never giving him any socialization training growing up. The nearby town offered simple reading, writing and arithmatic courses from age 10-12. Part of this was doing some testing to try and find prodigies/apprentices. Paper and quills were handed out and those who could write were asked to write something down to show their skills. My character had already had the memorization going at this time so he had a lot of information he didn't understand in his head, he could not read yet. Not wanting to feel stupid on his first day he just started writing down symbols in his head. One of the pages turned out to be a spell scroll. The local mage saw the perfectly transcribed scroll and assumed I could read and write magic, so I became a wizards apprentice along with 2 others. A cocky showoff son of a local landowner, and quiet girl. Until the time to actually cast the first spell my character did pretty well transcribing texts (while not understanding a lick of it) and collecting ingredients. Once ousted, the girl shunned him as a liar and the boy started mocking him incessantly. He went back into the illiterate class and learned to read and write etc... Eventually he joined the militia and his skills he developed during his use with his father's bow elevated him to captain of the towns local archers. To my character this was a big deal, and being the BEST at something in this town turned him into a cocky a-hole. Eventually culminating in a barfight with his wizard rival, both now young adults, that led to a duel, archery vs wizardry. The girl found out about it and tried to put a stop to it. She snuck up invis and countered his first spell while putting up a shield around him from my arrow already in flight, which shattered on the shield, the arrow driving into her neck and killing her. The wizard quickly rounded up the town militia (most of whom disliked me as the cocky punk I had become) and I fled, manifesting my first obvious psi power, teleporting away to safety (started the party at level 4 so I already have that skill). Years have passed, and the wanted posters are no longer in the town. My character just wants to get away, see the world, do some good to make up for the mistakes he had made. Gives him a few motivators. He is VERY humble, and quite quiet, never wanting to fall into the trap of success and glory. He does not like showoffs, as they remind him of his childhood rival. He is adamant about protecting innocents anytime he can. Plus all this fun stuff about his memorization, being a psi warrior without understanding why or where his powers come from.
Drachasor 03-18-05, 11:40 AM	Wisdom, per se, does not govern memory at all. That's the province of intelligence. Auto-hypnosis allows you to use your will power (more or less) to force information into you brain, but by no means does it help you comprehend what any of that knowledge means or how it is applied. If you aren't using this skill, your character only has average recall and memory. You cannot recall information any better than average if you don't have it hypnotized into you either. As far as I can tell, autohypnosis gives no ability to recall other things (no perfect recall of stuff not stuffed into your head with the skill). -Drachasor
Alluvian 03-18-05, 02:50 PM	Correct. But this character, in not understanding how the brain works is hoping to forget some things he cannot. One of his theories is stuffing his brain with enough information might cause him to forget other things. And it does not seem to be a strenuous thing at all, so there is little reason not to store anything that might be useful. Over the course of years it really adds up. He can retrieve it perfectly as well, but knowing WHAT to retrieve and then understanding it is another matter entirely. I will use this lack of base intelligence as a hook to hang out with the gnome in the party. The dwarf raised by orcs will simply amuse him, and I will have to see how the dread pirate to be plays his character to decide how he will react to that. Badly most likely, but he could try to redeem him instead of avoiding him.