How the...? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How the...? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
cowdragon
03-10-04, 01:58 AM Okay, I know we all have our opinions on 3.0 vs. 3.5, but this is not what this thread is for.

What I'm interested in is how to raise your spell DC's in 3.5? It seems all but impossible!!!! All I can muster is a lousy +2 if I go with SF AND GSF. There's gotta be more. Please help.

The Cowdragon :mage:
Bopple
03-10-04, 02:20 AM All I could find were...

Gnome innate bonus to illusion spell DC.

Elemental Focus of Elemental Savant - T&B.

Shadow Weave Magic - FR.

Tattoo Focus - FR.

Spellcasting Prodigy - FR. But supposed to be nerfed.

Gnome subrace feats - FR.
It says it gives spell power, but seeing Shadow Weave Magic gonna keep its DC boost, I think there is no reason to nerf those feats, considering they are restricted only to a certain subschool of illusion, respectively.
Wizard
03-10-04, 02:35 AM You missed the easy core one, Bopple---increasing the base stat.

This translates to several scrolls of fox's cunning at low levels, and the best headband available at higher levels. Always increase your Int on the level-based increases, of course.

At really high levels, start scribing scrolls of wish. Once you have five, you're ready to go.
Bopple
03-10-04, 03:04 AM Aye right, but I don't think that is what cowdragon wanted.
Dan-STC
03-10-04, 03:54 AM Empower Spell [Metamagic Feat] lets you prepare any lower level spells in higher slots, thus letting you cast them at a higher DC saving throw than normal. (They also can get around barriers that protect against spells of lower level this way.)
Wizard
03-10-04, 03:55 AM I think you mean Heighten Spell.

Good luck getting players, by the way. If you'd like to run an online pbp game see Kman's Adventures in my sig.
Crossover-Chronicler
03-10-04, 02:03 PM check out Book of Vile Darkness and Book of Exalted Deeds. There is feat in each that allows you to improve the save DC of your evil or good spells (respectively) by +2. There are other metamagic feats that turn spells good or evil. Combine these with Heighten spell...
Old Yeller
03-10-04, 05:45 PM The only other way to boost DCs that I can think of is the Arch-Mages spell-power special ability that costs you spell slots.

The reason for the changes IMO were that mages at higher levels were sooooo deadly in 3.0, that the adjustment in 3.5 was to reign in thos advantages. Whether or not that was really necessary has yet to be determined. Most people who were accustomed to playing Wizards or Sorcerers hate the new rules and changes to spells in 3.5 (at least the ones that I have heard), while those who play Roges or Fighters like the changes.
Vanigo
03-10-04, 06:11 PM Originally posted by Old Yeller
The only other way to boost DCs that I can think of is the Arch-Mages spell-power special ability that costs you spell slots. That was nerfed in 3.5. Now it only raises your effective caster level for penetrating SR and variable numeric effects (like range).
primemover003
03-10-04, 06:58 PM Only three ways I know of...

1) Raise your Int/Wis/Chr score by spell or item
2) Heighten Spell metamagic feat
3) Use the optional d20 +spell level +stat mod method to determine DC's... Sure you may roll under 10, but you could just as often roll above!!!
Bopple
03-10-04, 09:47 PM One more.
Spin Fate ability of Fatespinner from T&B.
Sereno
03-11-04, 09:12 AM Originally posted by Dan-STC
Empower Spell [Metamagic Feat] lets you prepare any lower level spells in higher slots, thus letting you cast them at a higher DC saving throw than normal. (They also can get around barriers that protect against spells of lower level this way.)

Are you sure? According to the SRD (emphasis mine):

Effects of Metamagic Feats on a Spell: In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast as a higher-level spell. Saving throw modifications are not changed unless stated otherwise in the feat description.
Garan
03-11-04, 09:35 AM 3.5 PHB pg 95

Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective levels of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell levels (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calulated according to the heightened level.
Twisted Puppy
03-11-04, 10:55 AM Spells like Ray of Fatigue, Waves of Fatigue, Ray of Exhaustion, Waves of Exhaustion, Bestow Curse, and Enervation all artificially raise the save DCs of your spells by lowering the targets' save modifiers. Even Ray of Enfeeblement can do this by changing the target's encumbrance from light to medium. None of the above spells, except for Bestow Curse, allow saves themselves. Just be sure you have the feat Weapon Focus: Ray.

Hope that helps some.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
cowdragon 03-10-04, 01:58 AM	Okay, I know we all have our opinions on 3.0 vs. 3.5, but this is not what this thread is for. What I'm interested in is how to raise your spell DC's in 3.5? It seems all but impossible!!!! All I can muster is a lousy +2 if I go with SF AND GSF. There's gotta be more. Please help. The Cowdragon :mage:
Bopple 03-10-04, 02:20 AM	All I could find were... Gnome innate bonus to illusion spell DC. Elemental Focus of Elemental Savant - T&B. Shadow Weave Magic - FR. Tattoo Focus - FR. Spellcasting Prodigy - FR. But supposed to be nerfed. Gnome subrace feats - FR. It says it gives spell power, but seeing Shadow Weave Magic gonna keep its DC boost, I think there is no reason to nerf those feats, considering they are restricted only to a certain subschool of illusion, respectively.
Wizard 03-10-04, 02:35 AM	You missed the easy core one, Bopple---increasing the base stat. This translates to several scrolls of fox's cunning at low levels, and the best headband available at higher levels. Always increase your Int on the level-based increases, of course. At really high levels, start scribing scrolls of wish. Once you have five, you're ready to go.
Bopple 03-10-04, 03:04 AM	Aye right, but I don't think that is what cowdragon wanted.
Dan-STC 03-10-04, 03:54 AM	Empower Spell [Metamagic Feat] lets you prepare any lower level spells in higher slots, thus letting you cast them at a higher DC saving throw than normal. (They also can get around barriers that protect against spells of lower level this way.)
Wizard 03-10-04, 03:55 AM	I think you mean Heighten Spell. Good luck getting players, by the way. If you'd like to run an online pbp game see Kman's Adventures in my sig.
Crossover-Chronicler 03-10-04, 02:03 PM	check out Book of Vile Darkness and Book of Exalted Deeds. There is feat in each that allows you to improve the save DC of your evil or good spells (respectively) by +2. There are other metamagic feats that turn spells good or evil. Combine these with Heighten spell...
Old Yeller 03-10-04, 05:45 PM	The only other way to boost DCs that I can think of is the Arch-Mages spell-power special ability that costs you spell slots. The reason for the changes IMO were that mages at higher levels were sooooo deadly in 3.0, that the adjustment in 3.5 was to reign in thos advantages. Whether or not that was really necessary has yet to be determined. Most people who were accustomed to playing Wizards or Sorcerers hate the new rules and changes to spells in 3.5 (at least the ones that I have heard), while those who play Roges or Fighters like the changes.
Vanigo 03-10-04, 06:11 PM	Originally posted by Old Yeller The only other way to boost DCs that I can think of is the Arch-Mages spell-power special ability that costs you spell slots. That was nerfed in 3.5. Now it only raises your effective caster level for penetrating SR and variable numeric effects (like range).
primemover003 03-10-04, 06:58 PM	Only three ways I know of... 1) Raise your Int/Wis/Chr score by spell or item 2) Heighten Spell metamagic feat 3) Use the optional d20 +spell level +stat mod method to determine DC's... Sure you may roll under 10, but you could just as often roll above!!!
Bopple 03-10-04, 09:47 PM	One more. Spin Fate ability of Fatespinner from T&B.
Sereno 03-11-04, 09:12 AM	Originally posted by Dan-STC Empower Spell [Metamagic Feat] lets you prepare any lower level spells in higher slots, thus letting you cast them at a higher DC saving throw than normal. (They also can get around barriers that protect against spells of lower level this way.) Are you sure? According to the SRD (emphasis mine): Effects of Metamagic Feats on a Spell: In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast as a higher-level spell. Saving throw modifications are not changed unless stated otherwise in the feat description.
Garan 03-11-04, 09:35 AM	3.5 PHB pg 95 Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective levels of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell levels (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calulated according to the heightened level.
Twisted Puppy 03-11-04, 10:55 AM	Spells like Ray of Fatigue, Waves of Fatigue, Ray of Exhaustion, Waves of Exhaustion, Bestow Curse, and Enervation all artificially raise the save DCs of your spells by lowering the targets' save modifiers. Even Ray of Enfeeblement can do this by changing the target's encumbrance from light to medium. None of the above spells, except for Bestow Curse, allow saves themselves. Just be sure you have the feat Weapon Focus: Ray. Hope that helps some.