Post/Author/DateTime	Post
UltimateReality 02-06-06, 01:28 PM	Okay, so I recently started a new campaign as a player, and my fellow party-mates and I are basically the law enforcement division of a village/town. We started off by investigating the murder of a noble's daughter the night before her wedding... Problem: I, as a person, have NO CLUE what to do with investigations, mysteries, etc. Another player is a frequent watcher of crime/detective shows, but I didn't even make it all the way through Sherlock Holmes. Seeing as our characters were appointed to their positions by basically provincial nobles, I figure I should at least be half-decent at this stuff. Can anyone recommend some good resources (books, movies, shows I might be able to find on DVD [I have no TV; my computer suffices], websites) to help me brush up on investigation skills and get into the mindset a bit further? FWIW, the campaign is a homebrew set in the ancient Orient, and my character is a monk... (Yes, I have heard of the Judge Dee books. They are impossible to find in my city, for some reason.)
fuzzypants 02-06-06, 06:14 PM	I'd recommend CSI and any of the Law & Order series on DVD.
Jerrythehun 02-06-06, 08:33 PM	A couple of hints: interview everyone in the families involved, the friends of the victim, etc. follow the money: any irregularities in the financial situations of those close to the victim, is there anyone in the family who lives beyond their means? gambling? ANY business owner in the family should be examined closely, especially if they deal with coin alot, like taverns. try to document the victim's life in as much detail as possible for a week or so before her death. Compare this to her regular routine and look for anything unusual. any ex-lovers on either side? if all else fails, in the real world the vast majority of female murder victims are murdered by a close male family member. Husbands and boyfriends are the biggest culprits, although brothers and fathers are also very statisically likely to be the murderer. and of course, the metagame answer: who is the most powerful person in the area? Its either him/her or his/her daughter/son. Let us know who the killer is when you catch him/her!
Gailbraithe 02-06-06, 10:00 PM	You should check out a book called Howdunit: How Crimes Are Commited And Solved (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1582970157/ref=pd_sim_b_1/103-0830176-2560646?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155). It's a reference for mystery writers, but is exactly what you're looking for: a light, non-technical reference on criminal investigation for non-law enforcement types. Amazon is bundling it with Scene of the Crime, which I would also recommend.
UltimateReality 02-07-06, 03:28 PM	Thanks for the replies, everyone. For those wanting to know campaign specifics: -the murder scene: the woman retired to bed with her tea, drank it, and died shortly thereafter. The tea was obviously poisoned. Her window was open with a crate pushed underneath it. Leads me to believe the killer may be small or just short. Also, a black thread was found on the crate. This is the common uniform for all students in the village. Examination of the window reveals it can only be opened from the inside. Consultation with the coroner determined that he had no idea what the poison was; it was from far away. Talking to kitchen staff revealed that normally the head cook makes the lady's tea, but that night he had supervised his apprentice making it. The apprentice nearly fainted when we told him what happened. The apprentice, in fact, revealed that he had made the tea to us. The head cook said nothing. The head servant was adamantly against performing an autopsy on the victim, spouting lots about dishonour. His father's life was apparently saved by the noble's grandfather sacrificing himself, and thus there are strong ties between the two. -the young lady in question was in fact madly in love with a "good friend" who was a student. They were secretly married a couple weeks before, and were planning to run away together. The new husband came to see why she hadn't met him at the appointed location and found her already dead. He thought she wouldn't commit suicide. -the victim's father is a wealthy merchant who trades with halflings that run caravans through the desert. he claims to have not had contact with them for a month, and doesn't know why anyone would want to murder his daughter. -the rest of the town has been merely told she is ill, but the killer has not returned to finish the job. my guess is that the killer is inside the household, or merely wants to delay/prevent her wedding, which is to the son of a general from the city. (daddy made sure his daughter married up.) We found a petty drug/poison dealer and currently have arrested him. (actually, being as this is a small town/village, he's probably the only guy in town.) As a LG monk3, I'm wondering what means, exactly, I can use to entice the truth out of him. The party consists of a Cleric and Bard, also my level. I have an elixir of truth on me, but the save on that is pretty low, it's expensive, and we won't find more in the village. I'm tempted to try some sort of mind games on him, or cut some sort of deal if he rats... The DM has said we have a zone of truth in the courtroom, but that still doesn't force him to TALK -- he can just refuse to answer. Interesting story of the dealer's arrest, btw: the bard walked up to him and he recognized her as the town magistrate right off the bat. she merely asked if he knew of a poison that could be drunk and kill you within an hour, and he started running away. when arrested, he assaulted her and the rest of us before we subdued him. a bit of an over-reaction, mm?
Bruunwald 02-07-06, 03:52 PM	A few words on finding things: "If you go looking for something specific, your odds of finding it are very bad. Because out of all the things in the world, you're only looking for one of them. If you go looking for anything, your odds of finding it are very good. Because out of all the things in the world, you're bound to find some of them." Daryl Zero says that in The Zero Effect, a film I am quite fond of. And it's a good point. The simplest rule of detective work is to keep your mind and senses open. Smell things, look at them, taste them when safe. Touch things, feel them, take your time and don't make quick assumptions. Every crime scene, like every picture, tells a story of what happened. Start paying attention to your own everyday experiences, then use that experience to put yourself into the situation. Think of each suspect (the victim included) and wonder about what they had to lose or to gain. I am a big fan of Law & Order, and you're probably going to see others recommending it. Check out the various incarnations (Special Victims Unit and Criminal Intent). Note that not all of the detectives are great at picking up clues. Some are better at interrogation, while others are better served as muscle. You'll find a niche in the squad. I envy you: I love detective work. My players prefer more story-based stuff, so I only throw straight-ahead murder mysteries out on rare occasions, and my own DM doesn't have the time to work in anything like that. But I'm always trying to edge a little of it in, just to keep them on their toes.
Tormsskull 02-07-06, 05:05 PM	I agree with Bruunwald, detective work can be a lot of fun. My characters usually go off of hunches, so let me show you how I would disect this. The Head Cook is either directly involved, or in some way connected to who is directly involved for a couple of reasons. 1.) He made sure not to be the one who was making the tea. 2.) He was supervising the making of the tea. Had he simply been sick that day or not shown up to work, that'd look suspicious. By taking on a supervisory role, he not only can deny making the tea, but also avoid some of the heat that is likely to come. 3.) With 2 people in the room making the tea, both the apprentice and the head cook, it is highly unlikely that a posion was slipped into the tea unbeknownst during its creation. There is the possibility that the poison was added after (when the tea was being transported from the kitchens to the lady's room, or wherever it was served.) Here is my hunch: The Head Cook had an intermediary purchase the poison from the dealer, whom was reluctant to give it to the purchaser, but was offered a substanial amount of coin to keep quiet about it. The poison was delivered to the head cook. When the tea was being made, the head cook distracted the apprentice in some way, and then added the poison to the tea. The apprentice was none the wiser, and completed the tea. The tea was sent with the head servant up to the lady's room. The lady thanked the head servant, and sent him packing. The lady arranged for her student lover to meet her @ her room. He had to push a cart to the window so that he could reach, and she had to open it. She drank some of the tea and the two of them began to fool around. She then dies after 1 hour from the poison, and the student is scared out of his mind so he flees. Who dunnit? I see a connection between the halflings who traverse the desert and the coroner stateing that the poison was from far away. So perhaps the halflings were upset at the lack of business, and they were easily swayed to provide the poison. As far as who is the actual culprit in this event, there isn't enough information to determine at this point. Once again, the above info is just a hunch that I have, and I could be way off. You said: "The new husband came to see why she hadn't met him at the appointed location and found her already dead. He thought she wouldn't commit suicide." I'd question this guy, maybe see if you can get a hold of the uniform he was wearing that day and see if it is possible to determine if the thread is from his uniform. Also, see if you can interrogate people in the courtroom where the zone of truth is active, that'd be really helpful. But, the main rule of crimework is: Never be certain of anything. The moment you say to yourself "It has to be this way" is the moment you lose your objectivity and ultimately sight of your true goal which should be justice. I am also interested in hearing the results of this, let us know :)
Surgo 02-07-06, 05:14 PM	Sounds like an inside job. The black thread was probably a plant, and I'm pretty sure the head cook and the apprentice are both innocent (why would the head cook not mention it, especially if it would take suspicion off of him?). Was there a new servant hire lately? If so, I would suspect them: they could have known about the head cook supervising his apprentice that night and took the opportunity to slip the poison in. So basically, you really need to find everyone who had their hands on that tea from start to finish.
Tormsskull 02-07-06, 05:24 PM	Sounds like an inside job. The black thread was probably a plant, and I'm pretty sure the head cook and the apprentice are both innocent (why would the head cook not mention it, especially if it would take suspicion off of him?). Was there a new servant hire lately? If so, I would suspect them: they could have known about the head cook supervising his apprentice that night and took the opportunity to slip the poison in. So basically, you really need to find everyone who had their hands on that tea from start to finish. Black thread was a plant? You don't see any connection between: Also, a black thread was found on the crate. This is the common uniform for all students in the village. and: the young lady in question was in fact madly in love with a "good friend" who was a student. Interesting that you would come up with a plant. How so?
Evil Glowstick 02-07-06, 05:47 PM	Get Sense motive, Gather Info, Search and Spot skills high. Then use them lots. You may notice something you didn't before that can give you a big hint as to what is going on. You will still have to do lots of work by yourself, but these can help.
UltimateReality 02-07-06, 05:56 PM	I agree with Bruunwald, detective work can be a lot of fun. My characters usually go off of hunches, so let me show you how I would disect this.Tormsskull, your theory is actually quite close to mine. The only problem is that the student lover said he came into the room AFTER she died. Which means someone had already opened the window. This throws a whole new twist on things. No one except the abbot a half day's ride away knew they were married. A couple of the servants knew she wasn't too keen on the arranged marriage, but that's it. BUT if someone did find out about them, it would provide a motive (jealousy, fear of dishonouring the family and damaging their business or social acquaintances, etc.). the lady's personal attendant came to us with initial news of murder. (And oddly, didn't seem too distressed. Not nearly as much as the apprentice cook or the woman's father.) The woman's normal nighttime routine was thus: -have a bath while Head Cook makes tea. -get ready for bed, etc. Servants take clothes down for washing. -get tea from Head Cook, who brings it up to her himself -servants leave at 9pm-ish -servants come to wake her up at 6am-ish Quick edit too: it was a cold night out, and the window was closed when the woman went to bed. We didn't think to ask the head cook if it was closed when he brought her the tea. I am extremely puzzled as to why the Head Cook wouldn't out his apprentice for making the tea, though. Seems like a perfect framing job. (Perhaps the cook is scared he could lose his own job for being so careless. This is an extremely honour-based society.) the only other option I can think of is that someone distracted both the cook and the apprentice and slipped something into the tea en route...or perhaps another servant "checked in" on the lady afterwards. Another possibility, just in case I misunderstood the DM (will clarify this when I see him next), is that the woman and her lover were indeed together, and someone slipped something into the tea while they were *ahem* "distracted". (Hey, they were newlyweds...) Again, the open window is interesting. If she let him (or someone else) in, she didn't provide any sort of struggle, and there was nothing suspicious. It appears that literally she drank her tea, lay down, and died shortly after. If someone used the window as a red herring, then that someone may well know about her and the student. We need to ask the student if the window was already open when he arrived. As for the zone of truth in the courthouse, we will probably end up making use of it. My only reservation is, as I said, that it doesn't force people to tell the truth or even to speak at all -- just prevents them from telling intentional lies. I suppose if we really wanted we could haul all the staff into the room one at a time (no mean feat, as this IS a wealthy noble family with lots of resident staff) and simply ask "Did you kill Lady Zhou?", and "Do you know who did?". Failure to answer those direct questions would be an admission of guilt or accomplice. This would be incredibly time consuming and we have a tea with another general in about 3 hrs game though, so I think we shall question our dealer there first. I find it interesting the poison is from far away and the father has dealings with halflings from far away. I'm not sure what they'd stand to gain by murdering their business partner's daughter. (Perhaps he was planning on turning a substantial amount of the business over to his daughter and new son-in-law and they had a quibble with that? A stretch, but perhaps.) It could of course be another red herring... get Sense motive, Gather Info, Search and Spot skills high(Love your SN, by the way.) Actually, we have. And we're using them. This is what it's garnered us so far. It's time to get into gear for some questioning of the dealer, the head cook, the student, the apprentice cook, the head servant, and the handmaiden pronto.
Surgo 02-07-06, 09:30 PM	Black thread was a plant? You don't see any connection between: A plant as in, it was PLANTED THERE. Man. :P
UltimateReality 02-07-06, 09:38 PM	Clarification from the DM has led me to construct the following timeline: 8:30 pm: Victim takes her bath and the apprentice makes tea under the head cook's supervision. 9 pm: cook takes tea to her room while she finishes bath. 9:05 pm: (or close -- the cook doesn't see her after she takes her bath) She returns from bath. between 9 and 10pm: she dies quietly from the poison. between 2-3 am: Tai Ru (her husband/secret student lover) arrives to find her dead and the window already open. The cook needs some questioning...notably as to whether he EVER left her tea unattended, and if the window was already open.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 02-07-06, 09:46 PM	I know who donnit....... :P
tharivol266 02-07-06, 10:13 PM	well one possible explaination for the open window would be the poison causing fever like symptoms. she drinks tea, she gets uncomfortably warm, she dies, hubby thinks window is open for him, he enters leaving a thread, he sees her, he leaves or stays or w/e
Jerrythehun 02-07-06, 11:40 PM	Does the victim's father have any other unmarried female children? Just spitballing here, but if the father found out about her secret marriage, he would know his situation with the general would be very bad indeed. I don't know how your millieu's culture works, but if it is preoccupied with honor the end result of that could be beheadings all around. So, he has the head servant, who would do anything for him it sounds like, poison her. Then he could marry another daughter to the general's son. They plant the thread to implicate the secret husband. Just one idea. Another question: where did the crate come from? I am suspicious of the poison seller situation. He does not seem to be very sophisticated, and neither does the killer, as the poison seller is still alive. I also wonder how difficult it is to smuggle poison to this area. A merchant or general might have an easier time of that then a guy who sells herbs in the market. Sounds like a pretty interesting game.
UltimateReality 02-08-06, 01:14 AM	Does the victim's father have any other unmarried female children?Nope. One daughter, one son. Son's away at military school, although he came back for sis's wedding. he has the head servant, who would do anything for him it sounds like, poison herHe was pretty grief-stricken when we met him. I mean, in shock grief-stricken. Maybe it's just remorse, but I get the sense that the father didn't do it. Another question: where did the crate come from?Across the alley; it was basically a garbage can pushed over to the window. Likely for the husband to climb up on and tap the window...except it was already open when he got there that night. I am suspicious of the poison seller situation. He does not seem to be very sophisticated, and neither does the killer, as the poison seller is still alive. I also wonder how difficult it is to smuggle poison to this area. A merchant or general might have an easier time of that then a guy who sells herbs in the market.Indeed, I'm also suspecting the groom's family. (The groom is a Lieutenant in the Emperor's Army...) We are in a small town of less than a thousand people; someone undoubtedly knows all about this...the trick is finding them and convincing them to talk to us. We're brand new and still "outsiders". I don't know how your millieu's culture works, but if it is preoccupied with honor the end result of that could be beheadings all around.I don't think the DM is going quite that far with it, but it would certainly disgrace both families if the prior marriage was found out. (I'm not sure if they could just get it annulled.) well one possible explaination for the open window would be the poison causing fever like symptomsShe died peacefully. Her hair was still brushed, her covers were neat. Her body wasn't contorted or anything. (The DM let slip OOG that Con damage killed her, btw....not that that helps any as he's prone to using homebrew poisons.)
Simi 02-08-06, 04:34 PM	She died peacefully. Her hair was still brushed, her covers were neat. Her body wasn't contorted or anything. (The DM let slip OOG that Con damage killed her, btw....not that that helps any as he's prone to using homebrew poisons.) Is it possible that someone arranged her like this after she was dead? Also, how about the secret husbands family? About how the poison could have gotten into the tea... how about it was already in the tea leaves before the cook and apprentice made the tea? This sounds like a great game
psionichamster 02-08-06, 06:32 PM	major questions or red flags to indicate possible guilt: 1. overreaction to authority questioning (may not be related directly to the questions, but to the authority) 2. influx of monies w/o obvious means 3. does the target or the family have enemies (noble family, default answer=yes, but who would have cause to poison the daughter-not the heir, mind you) 4. affairs of the heart? is there a jealous paramour? was there one in the past? 5. does the target or family owe money? i.e., this is a warning to dad to pay up... 6. organized crime connections? is the family in some kind of shady dealings 7. oddities...the apprentice making the tea, the husband finding the window opened, the window opened from the inside, without struggle off the top of my head, i can think of several ways this may have happened. someone poisoned the tea while making or serving it. prime suspect: head cook. secondary suspect: apprentice the poison was introduced after serving but before consumption...hidden (or invisible) assailant laid in wait and "ambushed" her tea before she drank it...perhaps with a distraction the "husband" was really someone in disguise (or a changeling/doppleganger) and was therefore let in voluntarily dad poisoned her to save face, in light of her betrayal of the marriage promise hubby poisoned her to prevent her leaving him all told, you have a short list of suspects to nab. dad. head cook. apprentice. husband. rep. of halfling merchants. poison dealer (even if he didn't do it/ supply the goods, he's probably in the know about something...squeeze him w/ threats of death-by-hanging, and offer the "carrot" of branding/exile/whatever non capital punishment.) once one of these pieces is eliminated, put it at the bottom of the list. assume everyone is lying to you, and make them upset/angry/drunk to easier ascertain the truth. as a LG monk, beating a confession is probably out of the question...although your party-mates may have differing opinions watch some CSI or NCIS or JAG or Law and Order (especial L&O: Criminal Intent) observe all the detail you possibly can about the scene and the suspects and take levels in master inquisitive ASAP. namaste' the hamster
UltimateReality 02-11-06, 10:26 PM	In short, the head servant did it. The rundown: We hauled the poison dealer in for questioning and determined he gets poison from a sage in the woods, and sold this particular batch to the maid servant. The maid servant knew her mistress was married to the student and blabbed to the head servant, who said he would "take care of this dishonour". He had her buy the ingredients needed. The head servant slipped into the room after the tea was dropped off and before the victim was there. He poisoned the tea and went to play dice with the head cook, drinking him under the table. After the lady died, he went back and opened the window to make it look like the student did it. We discovered all this after holding him overnight in the cells for being uncooperative and carefully watching his weasely answers under the zone of truth. (Well, and a swift kick to certain parts of his anatomy, but we're not too proud of that.) Eventually he gave in under relentless questioning and confessed the whole thing. The family thought we should offer the head servant the chance for an honourable death; we decided to let him drink the same poisoned tea that he used to kill the lady. Interesting story: while in our holding cell, the poison dealer was murdered. There is only one small window in the roof, small enough for a bird. We suspect the "sage in the woods" of getting rid of his middleman. We kind of don't want to take him on yet, being as he can change shape and all. Hooks for the next adventure: -while hunting down the sage originally to identify the poison (we didn't know he was the source of it), we were attacked by treasonous elves. They will need dealing with. -the general who defeated insurrectionists in the town about 40 years burnt the house they holed up in, where said insurrectionists were dabbling in necromancy. Town thinks the place is haunted. The poison dealer was carrying a key that fits into a lock on the front door.
Haml337 02-12-06, 01:47 PM	Nice. A bite trite... but my guess would have been just trite. I figured (before I got to the end of the thread) that everything happened normally. Except the secret husband. The window was opened and it was his thread. The trick is: the drug dealer had recently poisoned someone else (red herring) and it was merely the tea that was tainted. Not an intentional poisoning mind you, but simply "bad tea." (Bugs or something had gotten into it. The unexpected source of the poison was not the tea, but what was on it. Like Medicine Man with Sean Connery.) But it was all classic and classy. I LIKE! I just wish my players wouldn't complain when I tried stuff like this. They complain that PCs are meant to kill stuff and go exploring, and that D&D isn't Shadowrun or Vampire: The Masquerade... *SIGH* :weep: