How to be a Sorcerer [Archive] - Wizards Community

How to be a Sorcerer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lluks
02-16-06, 06:17 PM I love sorcerers. They are quite possibly my favorite class. Unfortunately, they are harder to play than say, a fighter, or a barbarian, or really anyone who focuses on melee combat. Consistently in my campaigns, we have me, the sorcerer, my friend, the Ogre Barbarian/War Hulk, and another friend who tries a lot of different things. The Ogre consistently rules the game, with his magical scythe that always Power Attacks with to the full extent, doing tons of damage and rarely missing. Heaven forbid he get a critical, because all that Attack and strength damage multiplied by four? (shudder). The encounter is over at that point. I always tried to give my character the best spells, feats, etc., but I have come to a realization: I don't know how to play a sorcercer to it's full potential. Sure I can cast fireball, but it doesn't usually kill everything and he just uses Great Cleave or Mighty Swing and annihalates everything beyond recognition much more efficiently.

And so I come to you. I hear constant praise about how spellcasters are like, Ohmigosh, so much better than anything else, like, ever (that was sarcasm, I don't really talk like that.) I know how to build a sorcerer, but, as the saying goes, "It's not the size that matters: It's how you use it."
How do I use the supposed god-like powers of a sorcerer so that I can take the spotlight.
Shaggy_Shaggs
02-16-06, 06:27 PM Dominate Monster on hulkboy and suggest he sit a few fights out, take a nap or something. ;)
Nom
02-16-06, 08:07 PM A spellcaster can do a lot of different things. In a group that is low on direct-damage dealing capability, energy attacks look impressive. In a group that has some powerful combat builds, they aren't worth it.

Focus on stuff that the fighter cannot do. Start with buffs; everyone likes to be buffed. Next, look at offensive debuffs - in most situations a ray of enfeeblement is way more powerful than a magic missile, especially at low levels. Consider also using Will-based "save or die" spells to disable to defeat opposition toughs. Even weak little daze can give your side a huge advantage. Finally, consider battlefield control. grease, obscuring mist, wall spells, and a variety of other effects can all force your opponents to fight on your terms. Sure, they might not strike the winning blow, but they will help you win the battle.

There are two metagame issues to consider also:

(1) Is it important that you strike the killing blow / do the most damage / ... . Aside from the anti-cooperative effect of such desires, you're probably not playing the right class (at least not until 15th level). Low to mid level spellcasters are there to make the whole team work better, not be the "sole hero".

(2) Is your DM actually varying the encounter design? If all your encounters are "one or more creatures appear at close range and charge into melee" then of course the melee powerhouses are going to be highly effective. Once you consider extended combat, ranged combat, skirmishing, or situations where you have time to prepare then the spellcaster (and other non-melee characters) find they have many more options.
Necrosis
02-16-06, 08:30 PM u are in the situation of specilists-of course a spelist power attacking buffed up ogre is great in melee-what happens hte first time he runs into crafty nasty magical opponent?-charms domiantions etc are these charaters weakness

Alternativly flying creatures you can't close with are eqully nasty to melee speclists.

Your sorcers strengths are his felxiability in spell casting-you can cast fly or haste when you REALLY need it-e.g. been chased by a 50 foot high stone elemental down a deadend box cayon? answer cast flight instead of fireball. Wall of force-whatever- your strength is felxability not melee damage power! Also note once you start throwing high level spells consider the metamagic feats such as empower/maximise, those fire balls get real nasty at long range(was 600 feet in 3.0).
20102000
02-17-06, 08:17 AM I always think spell selection is critical for sorcerers. You have to have spells that you can use 4 or 5 times. So if your buffing, blur is good. Fireball for offence especially with a rod of empowerment.
Mnky
02-17-06, 09:12 AM What level is this sorcerer, exactly?
Lluks
02-18-06, 03:34 PM It varied from game to game what level we would be.
Mnky
02-19-06, 09:12 AM It's hard to suggest any specific spells then. If you want to end a fight, hold person and hold monster are very effective especially when used on physically tough enemies (low will saves) and when combined with a magically boosted charisma and spell focus (enchantment). Even if it's the hulk who coup-de-grasses them, it's pretty obviously you who won the fight.
MSW
02-24-06, 06:34 PM I know how to build a sorcerer, but, as the saying goes, "It's not the size that matters: It's how you use it."
How do I use the supposed god-like powers of a sorcerer so that I can take the spotlight.
That is a pretty open ended question, for there are many different ways to take the spotlight. Getting twice the value of an item you are selling (for the Ogre PC) with a good Diplomacy check can definately be spotlighted. (love that Charisma!)

However it sounds from your message that you are talking about taking the spotlight in combat. You mention fireball, so it sounds like you are thinking of offensive firepower.

The 1st level spell Magic Missile is probably the best you can get. It automatically hits, does decent damage and scales up through 9th level. It's the automatically hitting that makes this nice.

The 1st level spell Ray of Enfeeblement is probably next best. It's not a flashy as Magic Missile, but it is nice reducing an opponent's STR (and resultant attacks and damage) by a small amount. If you look at the EL of the critter, reducing it's STR so it's melee attacks have a less chance to hit and do less damage is like lowering the EL for the encounter. And this works through all levels on all critters. (no save). You just need to hit with a ranged touch attack.

Utility wise, you can't beat Silent Image -- quite possibly the most creative and fun to role play spell in the game.

Another line of thought, why are you adventuring with the rest of the party? Is it because the Ogre Bard/War Hulk is so frigin' awsome oin battle (much better then you are!) then make him better with Enlarge Person. Thought he was bad-ass before? try it with him Enlarged.

The 2nd level spell Scorching Ray is really a spotlight type spell. With it you can make any opponent take notice of you. The 4d6 per ray scales up to multiple rays (3) at 11th level. Again there is no save on this damage.

You already mentioned the 3rd level spell Fireball. This is far more useful if you take the Sculpt Spell feat from Complete Arcane. (avoid blasting the party by shaping the spell's area of effect.)

Now the magic item you need to aquire, a Lesser Rod of Maximize. This 14000gp gem lets you maximize three spells each day of level 3 or lower. That is right, all of the above spells can be Maximized with this gem. So your Scourching Ray does 16hp per ray (48HP for three rays @ 11th level) Your Magic Missile does 25HP for 5 missiles at 9th level. Your Fireball does 60HP for 10d6 @ 10th level.

Now look at the Twin Spell feat in Complete Arcane. Double your pleasure, double your fun. There is also the Split Ray feat if you just want to do something like add a second Enervation (4th level must have) ray earlier then you could with Twin Spell.

But that is just looking at offensive strike type spells. You can also shine by being a battle field control type sorcerer. Things like Fog Cloud/Solid Fog the various Wall type spells or Evard's Black Tentacles can change the course of a battle and the battle field tactics drastically.

And never forget the power of being able to be Invisible and to Fly. Talk about a strategic nightmare for your opponents!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lluks 02-16-06, 06:17 PM	I love sorcerers. They are quite possibly my favorite class. Unfortunately, they are harder to play than say, a fighter, or a barbarian, or really anyone who focuses on melee combat. Consistently in my campaigns, we have me, the sorcerer, my friend, the Ogre Barbarian/War Hulk, and another friend who tries a lot of different things. The Ogre consistently rules the game, with his magical scythe that always Power Attacks with to the full extent, doing tons of damage and rarely missing. Heaven forbid he get a critical, because all that Attack and strength damage multiplied by four? (shudder). The encounter is over at that point. I always tried to give my character the best spells, feats, etc., but I have come to a realization: I don't know how to play a sorcercer to it's full potential. Sure I can cast fireball, but it doesn't usually kill everything and he just uses Great Cleave or Mighty Swing and annihalates everything beyond recognition much more efficiently. And so I come to you. I hear constant praise about how spellcasters are like, Ohmigosh, so much better than anything else, like, ever (that was sarcasm, I don't really talk like that.) I know how to build a sorcerer, but, as the saying goes, "It's not the size that matters: It's how you use it." How do I use the supposed god-like powers of a sorcerer so that I can take the spotlight.
Shaggy_Shaggs 02-16-06, 06:27 PM	Dominate Monster on hulkboy and suggest he sit a few fights out, take a nap or something. ;)
Nom 02-16-06, 08:07 PM	A spellcaster can do a lot of different things. In a group that is low on direct-damage dealing capability, energy attacks look impressive. In a group that has some powerful combat builds, they aren't worth it. Focus on stuff that the fighter cannot do. Start with buffs; everyone likes to be buffed. Next, look at offensive debuffs - in most situations a ray of enfeeblement is way more powerful than a magic missile, especially at low levels. Consider also using Will-based "save or die" spells to disable to defeat opposition toughs. Even weak little daze can give your side a huge advantage. Finally, consider battlefield control. grease, obscuring mist, wall spells, and a variety of other effects can all force your opponents to fight on your terms. Sure, they might not strike the winning blow, but they will help you win the battle. There are two metagame issues to consider also: (1) Is it important that you strike the killing blow / do the most damage / ... . Aside from the anti-cooperative effect of such desires, you're probably not playing the right class (at least not until 15th level). Low to mid level spellcasters are there to make the whole team work better, not be the "sole hero". (2) Is your DM actually varying the encounter design? If all your encounters are "one or more creatures appear at close range and charge into melee" then of course the melee powerhouses are going to be highly effective. Once you consider extended combat, ranged combat, skirmishing, or situations where you have time to prepare then the spellcaster (and other non-melee characters) find they have many more options.
Necrosis 02-16-06, 08:30 PM	u are in the situation of specilists-of course a spelist power attacking buffed up ogre is great in melee-what happens hte first time he runs into crafty nasty magical opponent?-charms domiantions etc are these charaters weakness Alternativly flying creatures you can't close with are eqully nasty to melee speclists. Your sorcers strengths are his felxiability in spell casting-you can cast fly or haste when you REALLY need it-e.g. been chased by a 50 foot high stone elemental down a deadend box cayon? answer cast flight instead of fireball. Wall of force-whatever- your strength is felxability not melee damage power! Also note once you start throwing high level spells consider the metamagic feats such as empower/maximise, those fire balls get real nasty at long range(was 600 feet in 3.0).
20102000 02-17-06, 08:17 AM	I always think spell selection is critical for sorcerers. You have to have spells that you can use 4 or 5 times. So if your buffing, blur is good. Fireball for offence especially with a rod of empowerment.
Mnky 02-17-06, 09:12 AM	What level is this sorcerer, exactly?
Lluks 02-18-06, 03:34 PM	It varied from game to game what level we would be.
Mnky 02-19-06, 09:12 AM	It's hard to suggest any specific spells then. If you want to end a fight, hold person and hold monster are very effective especially when used on physically tough enemies (low will saves) and when combined with a magically boosted charisma and spell focus (enchantment). Even if it's the hulk who coup-de-grasses them, it's pretty obviously you who won the fight.
MSW 02-24-06, 06:34 PM	I know how to build a sorcerer, but, as the saying goes, "It's not the size that matters: It's how you use it." How do I use the supposed god-like powers of a sorcerer so that I can take the spotlight. That is a pretty open ended question, for there are many different ways to take the spotlight. Getting twice the value of an item you are selling (for the Ogre PC) with a good Diplomacy check can definately be spotlighted. (love that Charisma!) However it sounds from your message that you are talking about taking the spotlight in combat. You mention fireball, so it sounds like you are thinking of offensive firepower. The 1st level spell Magic Missile is probably the best you can get. It automatically hits, does decent damage and scales up through 9th level. It's the automatically hitting that makes this nice. The 1st level spell Ray of Enfeeblement is probably next best. It's not a flashy as Magic Missile, but it is nice reducing an opponent's STR (and resultant attacks and damage) by a small amount. If you look at the EL of the critter, reducing it's STR so it's melee attacks have a less chance to hit and do less damage is like lowering the EL for the encounter. And this works through all levels on all critters. (no save). You just need to hit with a ranged touch attack. Utility wise, you can't beat Silent Image -- quite possibly the most creative and fun to role play spell in the game. Another line of thought, why are you adventuring with the rest of the party? Is it because the Ogre Bard/War Hulk is so frigin' awsome oin battle (much better then you are!) then make him better with Enlarge Person. Thought he was bad-ass before? try it with him Enlarged. The 2nd level spell Scorching Ray is really a spotlight type spell. With it you can make any opponent take notice of you. The 4d6 per ray scales up to multiple rays (3) at 11th level. Again there is no save on this damage. You already mentioned the 3rd level spell Fireball. This is far more useful if you take the Sculpt Spell feat from Complete Arcane. (avoid blasting the party by shaping the spell's area of effect.) Now the magic item you need to aquire, a Lesser Rod of Maximize. This 14000gp gem lets you maximize three spells each day of level 3 or lower. That is right, all of the above spells can be Maximized with this gem. So your Scourching Ray does 16hp per ray (48HP for three rays @ 11th level) Your Magic Missile does 25HP for 5 missiles at 9th level. Your Fireball does 60HP for 10d6 @ 10th level. Now look at the Twin Spell feat in Complete Arcane. Double your pleasure, double your fun. There is also the Split Ray feat if you just want to do something like add a second Enervation (4th level must have) ray earlier then you could with Twin Spell. But that is just looking at offensive strike type spells. You can also shine by being a battle field control type sorcerer. Things like Fog Cloud/Solid Fog the various Wall type spells or Evard's Black Tentacles can change the course of a battle and the battle field tactics drastically. And never forget the power of being able to be Invisible and to Fly. Talk about a strategic nightmare for your opponents!