Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sweet_kungfuman 09-17-07, 09:59 AM	Greetings! Here is my first RANT and post to this forum ^_^! Hope you enjoy it ^_^ and please, don't take it personally. I only want to express my heart content and never meant to attack anybody ^_^. I say sorry and deep apology up front ^_^! My friends and me just recently started a session of D&D. We're all are newbies and this is our first campaign, so everybody including the DM still have to learn a lot about the rules. We already have 3 session: character creation, introduction, and a little battle. Well, the problem is my nature is neutral with tendencies towards chaotic and my DM is very lawful and strict. This result in a lot of problem since I like to customize the rules for my own enjoyment and my DM is always try his best to obey the rule. I can understand if he's being strict on important matters (character creation system, training animal companion, experience, magic items, etc) since it can throw the campaign out of balance. But the problem is he is strict on almost everything, sometimes he can be lenient, but not after a long and tiresome argumentation and usually you have to sacrifice something and make compromises. Our first problem is about the height, weight, and age of my character. I want my character to be short, around 5'2" in height and 94 lbs in weight. I also want the character to be 14 years old. Off course my DM disagree with me and ask me to obey the dice (the dice give me 5"6 and 104 lbs, 17 years old). We run into a tiresome and pointless argumentation. A week later, he let me choose my character's weight and height, but the age can't be less than 16 since that's the minimum age for a human sorcerer. Well, I'm happy about this turn of event and decide that I'm okay with 16 year old character instead of 14. Our second problem is about a broom. I want my sorcerer to appear like a traditional witch: black clothing, pointy hat, a familiar and a broom of flying. So I create my character background as an apprentice sorcerer who was given a quest by her wizard master to fix his broom of flying. Until it's fixed, the broom can't fly and function as a normal broom. I think you need craft Wondrous Item and around 7500 gp to fix it, so it will take a long time until I can fly with it. My sorcerer doesn't have a weapon yet and I think weapons like swords, club, or bows don't portray the traditional witch very well, so I ask the DM to let me use the broom as a weapon. He agrees but he gives me this problem, the broom is an exotic weapon, so I suffer -4 penalty with it. My character strength is 4 which give me -3 strength modifier, so the broom will have -7 penalty to attack roll!!! The broom's damage is only 1d3 and combined with my 4 strength, it only deals 1 damage. There is no way it can disrupt the campaign's balance. Still, my DM friend thinks that he has to make it more difficult for me and treat the broom as an exotic weapon because that's what the rule says. He refuse to let my sorcerer treat the broom like a dwarf treat his dwarven waraxe, or a monk treat his monk weapon, or an elf with a rapier (they don't need any proficiency feat to use those weapons). I'm getting tired with these argumentations. Those height, weight, age, and broom doesn't make me a powerfull spellcaster, why should I have to go through a long and pointless argumentation just to get those stuff right? They're just roleplaying stuff .... T_T. In case you're wondering, we only use those 3 corebooks. We're all newbies and I can guarantee that our DM has a lot of hard works trying to swallow those 3 books in such a short amount of time. That's why I can't use those sweet Witch classes available in the community and have to stuck with a sorcerer, those custom classes will be to much for him. Have a nice day \^o^/ !!
DyloniusFunk 09-17-07, 10:23 AM	#1: Your Point. The tables for random height weight and age are there for ease but they should not impare a player from choosing this stuff for thier characters. The only real issue comes if a player tries to be a munchkin, trying something like making a taller than normal halfling and claiming he should get the bonuses for being Small but be able to use Medium sized weapons. It dosen't sound like your trying to do that so i think in this case your DM should back off. Age might be a different thing since there might be reasons why a 14 year old in your DM's world might not be an adventurer. You may not think there is much difference between 14 and 16 but try to think back to when you were 14 and then to when you were 16 ( or to present day if you are 16) and i think you'll see a lot of change in those two years. #2: Your DM's point. I would rule a broom as an improvised weapon Improvised Weapons Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses one in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a -4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet. You claim your DM is calling it an exotic weapon, it sounds to me like he's giving you a chance to spend a feat to use it. If it fits your character concept go ahead but otherwise i wouldn't worry about it. Honestly you shouldn't be seeing melee much anyway and i would be more concerned with making sure you pick the right spells so you don't have to deal with being in melee
Drag0nUL 09-17-07, 11:01 AM	1. To be honest I have never used the height and weight tables nor have I forced anybody in my campaigns to use it. This kind of stuff has no influence on the campaign. So far in my entire gaming career only once have I seen a character's weight having in game effect (a warforged was to heavy to be flown over a rift by another character's flying mount). 2. By RAW, your DM is right. Actually he is being a bit lenient in letting you treat the broom like an exotic weapon instead of an improvised one. Still, judging from a game effect perspective, you could very well use a quarterstaff, dealing 1d6 damage at no penalty. So it would not be much if he let you treat the broom as a quarterstaff. I would do that because I like the concept, but any DM has his opinions what goes in his campaign and what doesn't.
Sunblast 09-17-07, 12:59 PM	In character creation, those random tables really are just there to help you if you don't know what you want. That stuff's up to you so long as you keep it realistic. The age thing, however... It's probably best to keep to the minimum ages. I mean, if you can play a 14 year old sorcerer, why not a 3 year old sorcerer? The game has rules for the later age categories, but it seems the designers didn't think we would need baby, child, and teenager age categories. As the others have already said, a broom would actually be an improvised weapon, not an exotic weapon. They both get a -4 to attack, but you can become proficient with an exotic weapon with but a feat. I don't see the big deal here either way. Why do you want to be in melee with a -3 STR mod? Seriously, the few times you hit, you'll deal 1 damage. You've got better things to do than worry about if your character's going to hit someone with a broom. Why not get a dagger? Still 1 damage with each hit for your character, but it's an actual weapon, and one that can be thrown no less. Also, if you spring for a masterwork dagger, you can enchant it later and start dealing a whopping 2 damage with each hit. Also, I wouldn't think a dagger would exactly break the stereotype you're trying to perpetuate.
Tequila_Sunrise 09-17-07, 02:06 PM	Our first problem is about the height, weight, and age of my character. I want my character to be short, around 5'2" in height and 94 lbs in weight. I also want the character to be 14 years old. Off course my DM disagree with me and ask me to obey the dice (the dice give me 5"6 and 104 lbs, 17 years old). We run into a tiresome and pointless argumentation. A week later, he let me choose my character's weight and height, but the age can't be less than 16 since that's the minimum age for a human sorcerer. Well, I'm happy about this turn of event and decide that I'm okay with 16 year old character instead of 14. Yeah, those tables are meant to be optional. Your DM will probably realize this after a while. Our second problem is about a broom. I want my sorcerer to appear like a traditional witch: black clothing, pointy hat, a familiar and a broom of flying. So I create my character background as an apprentice sorcerer who was given a quest by her wizard master to fix his broom of flying. Until it's fixed, the broom can't fly and function as a normal broom. I think you need craft Wondrous Item and around 7500 gp to fix it, so it will take a long time until I can fly with it. My sorcerer doesn't have a weapon yet and I think weapons like swords, club, or bows don't portray the traditional witch very well, so I ask the DM to let me use the broom as a weapon. He agrees but he gives me this problem, the broom is an exotic weapon, so I suffer -4 penalty with it. My character strength is 4 which give me -3 strength modifier, so the broom will have -7 penalty to attack roll!!! The broom's damage is only 1d3 and combined with my 4 strength, it only deals 1 damage. There is no way it can disrupt the campaign's balance. Still, my DM friend thinks that he has to make it more difficult for me and treat the broom as an exotic weapon because that's what the rule says. He refuse to let my sorcerer treat the broom like a dwarf treat his dwarven waraxe, or a monk treat his monk weapon, or an elf with a rapier (they don't need any proficiency feat to use those weapons). I would probably rule the broom shard as a "club". If you look at the club description in the PHB it says only that "clubs are so easy to find and make that they have no cost." To me, that infers that a "club" can come in many shapes and sizes, including a broom half. Again, your DM will probably figure this out over time. I'm getting tired with these argumentations. Those height, weight, age, and broom doesn't make me a powerfull spellcaster, why should I have to go through a long and pointless argumentation just to get those stuff right? They're just roleplaying stuff .... T_T. Like I've said, your DM will probably learn when to strictly follow the rules and when to allow leeway. I can tell you the best way to help him learn, though you may not like it because it doesn't involve arguing with him. The best way to loosen up your DM is to run a game yourself. Start your own game with him and the others who you already play with, but DO NOT do it so that he thinks that you're trying to show him up. Just say something like "Guys, I just had a great idea for a campaign that I want to try out! Want to play a second game?" Then when your current DM sees how much fun everyone is having with your loose rules, he will begin to loosen up his own game. But again, DO NOT hint at or let him know in any way that you are running your game in order to show him "the right way" to use the rules. Hope that helps, TS
perdera 09-17-07, 05:41 PM	I agree with others...I just had to add...a 4 Strength?! Do you have a sherpa?
kriskey 09-17-07, 05:42 PM	I don't think it's realistic for a character with 4 strength to be a 14 year old boy. A 12 year old girl would be a little more in line.
DarkNick 09-17-07, 05:53 PM	I don't think it's realistic for a character with 4 strength to be a 14 year old boy. A 12 year old girl would be a little more in line. why??
kriskey 09-17-07, 05:57 PM	why?? It's right there in the Player's Handbook: Shadow, Will-O-Wisp: 0 Strength Bat, Toad : 1 Strength Rat Swarm : 2 Strength Calista Flockhart : 3 Strength 12-Year Old Girl : 4 Strength
Einvaldurinn_mikli 09-17-07, 06:12 PM	why?? Because she is younger and female? Don't know if 4 is a good approximation, but the score would on average be lower.
Some_call_me_Tim 09-17-07, 07:12 PM	In case you're wondering, we only use those 3 corebooks. We're all newbies...OK, your DM is out to a great start learning the rules, he knows about the height/weight tables, exotic weapons and the like. That's good. Now he needs to learn how to run a game using the rules as guidelines. Nothing you have said, would break the game or give you an advantage. I sure wouldn't have a problem with a character selecting things like height and weight. Age would only be a problem if you wanted to be old to get the bonuses to mental stats. As long as you aren't trying to gain an advantage I have no problem with descriptive terms. Same goes for the broom. OK you have a quarterstaff there. So, big deal you describe as a quarterstaff with a bunch of straw strapped to one end--big deal. Now, the only loophole I would worry about is when it becomes a broom of flying and you want to wield it as weapon and also have it handy to fly with as well. It give a very slight advantage not to have to draw and sheathe a weapon, but I seriously doubt it would even come up.
FoulQ 09-17-07, 08:27 PM	Your DM is doing the right thing, better to lay down the law and have an organized game instead of just this giant mix of rules and complications. Maybe DnD is just not the thing for you, remember that, so it isn't necessarily the DM's fault. I actually think he's doing pretty good with the -4 penalty on brooms, seems to know his stuff fairly well for only a few weeks..... And how in the world did you manage to get 4 strength? I'm guessing you guys are doing rolling..... It's the traditional DnD way, but Point Buy is better IMO Also using 3 corebooks is a very very good idea...he doesn't have to swallow the MM, mainly just use the chart in the back for CRs, be a little creative with the monsters, and educate himself on CR. :cool: Likewise with the DMG, half of it is not really necessary for a truly successful campaign (for example, he doesn't really need to read every single specific entry in the magic items chapter).
Drag0nUL 09-18-07, 04:16 AM	Your DM is doing the right thing, better to lay down the law and have an organized game instead of just this giant mix of rules and complications. I think I understand the DM's point of view, too. He is fairly new to D&D (his first campaign) and therefore he can't judge the game effect of what you propose (as far as he's concerned, I guess he has no idea if your request is just a roleplay thing or is the first step in God knows what uber build). It might be a good thing the fact that he tries to stick to the rules. When I first learned to play D&D , the DM was also new (he'd been playing for a few months but it was his first time as a DM) and he used to bend the rules for the sake of coolness all the time. That campaign was chaos. There is a good chance that, once he gets a better feel for the game he might loosen up a bit.
buzzsawl 09-18-07, 06:38 AM	Like the others have said: Your DM is being a bit unreasonable w/ age and weight tables. However, w/ the broom, I think he's already being quite lenient w/ it just letting you have one: Normally costs 17,000gp Repair probably does cost around 7500gp (I'm too lazy to add it up myself). That's a bit like starting w/ an extra 9500gp. It's right there in the Player's Handbook: Shadow, Will-O-Wisp: 0 Strength Bat, Toad : 1 Strength Rat Swarm : 2 Strength Calista Flockhart : 3 Strength 12-Year Old Girl : 4 Strength Lol...Here I baked something for you's :cookie:
Mejdrich 09-18-07, 07:50 AM	I generally agree with what everyone has said. If you all are newbies, these things are bound to happen. Like as already pointed out, he's letting slide your Str of 4 and owning an awesome magic item. One other thing to think about, if you use the broom as a weapon, there's a greater chance of breaking it even more. Enemies can break it with a sunder attack, some DMs will mess with you if you roll a '1', etc.
MrCustomer 09-18-07, 01:12 PM	The height/weight tables are guidlines you can use if you don't want to choose a specific measurement. They are useful if you want a short or tall, thin or heavy character because you can use the tables as a min/max height/weight. You should feel free. As for the DM only giving in after long arguements and then compromising. You are at fault here, arguing over his rulings is going to slow things down and ruin the game. You need to accept his rulings and let the game move on. If you feel it is an important point then you should leave it for between games to discuss it with the DM, even writing down your points in a rational logical context. Especially if what you want is a variation or is not according to the rule book. A Broom should be treated as a short staff, but because it is not balanced right, nor designed to be used as a weapon, it would be an exotic weapon and you would have a -4, unless you picked up a feat, Exotic Weapons: Broom, your DM is doing it right. He is also being leniant because brooms are not typically designed for combat, most staffs are specific cuts of quality wood which can take the beating and stress of combat. Brooms on the other hand are likely to break. Considering you are using an already broken flying broom chances are this gross missuse of the broom is going to break it further. -Just use a reinforced broom that is balanced for combat. Pick of exotic Weapons, Brooms Feat if you must, but casters suck at combat anyways so I personally wouldn't bother. Ask your DM that if you made a reinforced, balanced broom that is essentially a staff with an appearance of a broom if it could be used without being an exotic weapon, it is afterall only a staff for all intents and purposes of combat, point out that a regular broom would be poorly balanced for using as a staff but that this one is properly made for that purpose, and that this is no more powerful then any other wizard who starts with a staff, unless he beleives that your ability to get janitorial work with the broom is an unfair advantage. -When you get to the level and the cash to make a magical, flying broom, then make a new broom. It should cost the same as fixing an old broom. In the mean time you could consider making a series of magical brooms as upgrades using what spells/abilities are at your disposal.
Dunsel 09-18-07, 01:37 PM	Things could be worse, this guy could be your DM! Mejdrich Is it cheating when the DM breaks the rules? As noted before, the height and weight chart is optional. Maybe he doesn't know that since he is new. he did compromise with you. Try not to argue every little point. Your DM sounds likes he is trying to stick with the rules and give you an occasional break. IOW, he sounds fair. Consider yourself fortunate.
jasper 09-18-07, 03:38 PM	You are wrong in almost all ways except the height weight chart and how you are dress your pc. You are new he is new. You both are trying to learn the real rules. What you are doing is wanting to play Uno with school yard rules with out reading and understanding the official rules. And then whining griping bullying etc until you get your way or mostly your way. So either follow the core rules until the dm gets use to rules Dm yourself Find a new dm.
sweet_kungfuman 09-20-07, 03:10 AM	Uh oh, a lot of replies .... In case you want the detailes of the current broom: damage: 1d3 critical: x2 work with weapon finesse feat exotic weapon proficiency Well, I answer the most general question first: - About the age: I already stated that "Well, I'm happy about this turn of event and decide that I'm okay with 16 year old character instead of 14." So no more problem with that, he is a newbie so I guess he just don't understand the rules well at that time, just like you guys said. - There's a lot of better weapons out there which is better than a broom. Well, I want my sorcerer use the broom as the weapon because I want my character to be like a traditional witch, and for me, my character is very important. In every game I play, I always try to create character that I like, even though I know that most of the time my character build is not the powerfull one. It's just my taste and my playstyle :D, no special reason. - Sorcerer is better stay away from melee. Yes, I'm completely agree with this, especially with 5 HP and 4 STR. I only want the broom as a weapon because it looks cool in a witch, NOT because I'm planning to use it frequently :D. DyloniusFunk quote: You may not think there is much difference between 14 and 16 but try to think back to when you were 14 and then to when you were 16 ( or to present day if you are 16) and i think you'll see a lot of change in those two years. I'm not worrying about that anymore, I'm happy that my DM granted my wish and I can live with 16 years old character. By the way, girls look cuter when they are 14 :D Sunblast's quote: I mean, if you can play a 14 year old sorcerer, why not a 3 year old sorcerer? Uhh ... well, I'm not that crazy yet, I know that they can barely run and can't be far from their momma ^_^. You'll get killed VERY EARLY in the campaign. Teenager is cool I guess, most heroes and heroines in the anime world are teenager :D. Off course you can argue that this is D&D world, not some anime world ... T_T. Tequila_Sunrise's quote: I can tell you the best way to help him learn, though you may not like it because it doesn't involve arguing with him. I hate arguing, that's why I post here to rant :D . Perdera's quote: I agree with others...I just had to add...a 4 Strength?! Do you have a sherpa? No, just a bad dice roll :D. Point buy system is introduced later by my DM (again, after a lot of tiresome argumentation) with 28 points as a start. Except for the 4 Str, my roll is pretty good I guess (4 Str, 12 Const, 15 Dex, 14 Int, 13 Wis, 18 Cha), so I stick with it. Off course it will be good if my DM let me reroll those 4 strength though ^_^. By the way, what is a sherpa? Kriskey's quote: I don't think it's realistic for a character with 4 strength to be a 14 year old boy. A 12 year old girl would be a little more in line. My character is a girl :D. buzzsawl: However, w/ the broom, I think he's already being quite lenient w/ it just letting you have one: Normally costs 17,000gp Repair probably does cost around 7500gp (I'm too lazy to add it up myself). That's a bit like starting w/ an extra 9500gp. Mejdrich he's letting slide your Str of 4 and owning an awesome magic item. One other thing to think about, if you use the broom as a weapon, there's a greater chance of breaking it even more. Enemies can break it with a sunder attack, some DMs will mess with you if you roll a '1', etc. Uhh .. I don't think so. This WAS a flyng broom, but NOW this is just a normal broom, it can't fly or doing anything magical, it's completely dispelled. This statement is in my character's background story and since it's my quest item I think it's best to not to sell it. Even though I sell it, I'm sure it's worth only a few CP (Now it's just a normal broom and used too!!!). I'm sure that almost every house in the house in the world at least have one broom, so why can't my character have a new broom? Broom of Flying doesn't require a broom to create (I think that's because the broom is so cheap, like club and quarterstaff :D). About the 4 str: he let me slide with it because he can't let me reroll, reroll is available if your total point is below 25 (my total point is around 35, pretty high I guess). I can change the 4 str by doing 28 point buy system and create new character, but my other stats is pretty good already, so I decide to stick with it. About sunder attack: I'm a sorcerer so I'm trying my best to stay behind and protected ^_^. But in case that happens, I guess I just have to buy a new broom right? I'm sure that every city have some shop that sells broom. Broom is not rare or legendary item right? But I think I'll try to fix the broom first before trying to buy a new one, this one has sentimental value on it ^_^. I'm sure there's some spell able to fix a broken broom, I'll even use Wish when necessary! MrCustomer's quote: arguing over his rulings is going to slow things down and ruin the game. You need to accept his rulings and let the game move on. We argue OUTside the D&D session ^_^. So the game is always move on and doesn't slow down at all. I don't want my other party member to become mad at me because I'm wasting their time by arguing with the DM, right :D? FoulQ's quote: Maybe DnD is just not the thing for you, remember that, so it isn't necessarily the DM's fault. I really wish that DnD is not my thing, but the problem is the game is so much fun :D jasper's quote: Find a new dm. No I can't do that, we have spent 3 session adventuring, if I leave in the middle of a campaign that will be bad for my party's balance in battle and the campaign story. We have lost a fighter because his mom ask him to do some errand work regularly. Not to mention that my friend is probably the only DM in our poor nation. To Drag0nUL, Tequila_Sunrise, Some_call_me_Time, MrCustomer: Thanks for your idea to substitute broom with a club/enforced broom/strawed quarterstaff, etc!!! I'll try that \^o^/ !!! Well, in case everything won't work, I'll guess I have to take Weapon Finesse, and Exotic Weapon feat for broom. If I can't have fun than at least I can let my DM friend have some fun ^_^. D&D itself is fun, so maybe I can forget this problem by keep playing and ignore it. Well, thanks a lot everyone!!! This amount of replies sure surprise me :D!!!
Senevri 09-20-07, 09:28 AM	Well, the problem is my nature is neutral with tendencies towards chaotic and my DM is very lawful and strict. This result in a lot of problem since I like to customize the rules for my own enjoyment Well of course that's bad, you don't get to do tha... Our first problem is about the height, weight, and age of my character. I want my character to be short, around 5'2" in height and 94 lbs in weight. I also want the character to be 14 years old. Off course my DM disagree with me and ask me to obey the dice (the dice give me 5"6 and 104 lbs, 17 years old). Wot now? Age, Weight and Height haven't got much in the way of mechanical limitations. Admittedly, depending on the game, an age of 14 _might_ qualify for slight stat penalties... but it most likely won't matter. Our second problem is about a broom. I want my sorcerer to appear like a traditional witch: black clothing, pointy hat, a familiar and a broom of flying. So I create my character background as an apprentice sorcerer who was given a quest by her wizard master to fix his broom of flying. Until it's fixed, the broom can't fly and function as a normal broom. I think you need craft Wondrous Item and around 7500 gp to fix it, so it will take a long time until I can fly with it. My sorcerer doesn't have a weapon yet and I think weapons like swords, club, or bows don't portray the traditional witch very well, so I ask the DM to let me use the broom as a weapon. He agrees but he gives me this problem, the broom is an exotic weapon, so I suffer -4 penalty with it. My character strength is 4 which give me -3 strength modifier, so the broom will have -7 penalty to attack roll!!! The broom's damage is only 1d3 and combined with my 4 strength, it only deals 1 damage. There is no way it can disrupt the campaign's balance. ...Wot? That's just panicky thinking. HOW on earth does a broom do less damage than an untrained fist? Simple weapon as an improvised club/quarterstaff for 1d6/x2 sounds about right. I'm getting tired with these argumentations. Those height, weight, age, and broom doesn't make me a powerfull spellcaster, why should I have to go through a long and pointless argumentation just to get those stuff right? I actually agree. That's why I can't use those sweet Witch classes available in the community and have to stuck with a sorcerer, those custom classes will be to much for him. Actually... many DMs don't allow material outside of official books. Also, there is a witch class in the DMG, which is a Sorcerer with a limited spell selection, essentially. You're better off with a plain sorcerer, trust me.
Radijs 09-20-07, 09:49 AM	Finding a new DM would be going overboard because from your last reply I'd say that you haven't got any issues that cant be worked on. The other advice that the people have given you is solid. The only tip I'd like to give you is to swap your CON and your INT. That will help your character survive a bit more. Extra HP is always good as a caster.
sweet_kungfuman 09-20-07, 08:32 PM	Forget to answer this one from Tequila_Sunrise: Start your own game with him and the others who you already play with, but DO NOT do it so that he thinks that you're trying to show him up. Just say something like "Guys, I just had a great idea for a campaign that I want to try out! Want to play a second game?" Then when your current DM sees how much fun everyone is having with your loose rules, he will begin to loosen up his own game. But again, DO NOT hint at or let him know in any way that you are running your game in order to show him "the right way" to use the rules. I don't know, that will be hard. I can loosen some rules, but what good it is if no one wants to use it? The other player doesn't care about the details of their character, they just want to go adventuring immediately, that's all. Here is some facts about them: 1. No one cares about the height, weight, and age of their character, they just let the dice do it, none of them have complaint with it. 2. They create their character to create a suitable party for adventure (must have healer, tank, spellcaster, damage dealer, etc ) not because they want to be that class. They become what their party needs. I do that as long as I like that class, I like sorcerer, monk, and rogue ^_^. So don't expect me to tank, or heal. I'm not being selfish here, the DM said that he will create and adjust the campaign according to the party's ability. Basically, we will still be able to finish the campaign even with the lousiest party and still have a lot of challenge even with the mightiest party. 4. 9 (nine!) days ago, my DM ask them to create the detailed descriptions of their character appearance (example: narrow eyes, a big diagonal scar on the back, big lips and brushy eyebrow, long blonde hair, green skin, wearing black full plate with a lot of thorns on it, etc). It seems that up until now, I'm the only player who have submit it (in a picture too ^_^). The other player simply ignore the request of my poor DM friend. 5. One of the player ask for a boomerang, but that's because he think that sling's bullet is weighty and having a ranged weapon with no amunition is more effective in battle, NOT because he think that his druid will look cool and unique with it. I know this because he told me about this ^_^. It will be difficult to ask these guys to be creative with their character concept. I can't blame them, a perfect character concept won't make your character any stronger. I can still try DM-ing though, we definitely need another DM. It's not fair for my DM friend if he must become a DM for his entire life and never experience an adventuring life as a player :D. Senevri's quote: HOW on earth does a broom do less damage than an untrained fist? Ow, I'll ask my DM friend about that, more damage is always welcome :D Senevri's quote: Also, there is a witch class in the DMG, which is a Sorcerer with a limited spell selection, essentially. You're better off with a plain sorcerer, trust me. Wow! Cool! Gotta check it out! But why I should stick with sorcerer? Sorcerer have more spell which means more things to learn (harder for newbie), less spell means better for newbie right? Extreme example: Barbarian is always easier to learn than a Wizard :D Radijs' quote: The only tip I'd like to give you is to swap your CON and your INT. That will help your character survive a bit more. Ugh .. to late for that, the game is already on our 3 session. The DM won't let me, I can still do that if we're still in character creation session. Thanks anyway, I'll keep that in mind for my next spellcaster character ;)
Dag 09-20-07, 08:50 PM	Why don't you get a push-broom? It's bigger and heavier. Better for power attacking.
Pyro_Azer 09-20-07, 09:38 PM	Why attack at all? why not just, i don't know, use spells?
Myers 09-21-07, 12:12 PM	Overall it sounds like your DM is fairly smart in how he/she is trying to go by the book to start to get the hang of it to learn what to switch from. Really though one should only worry about the things that have actual effect on the gameplay. things like appearence, age etc.. should be allowed to let slide, as it encorages roleplay and allows the player to get more into the character, which is the DMs first and most important job. On the broom thing, I wouldn't really bother arguing it one way or the other, Fact is whether it's treated as a simple quarterstaff or as an exotic or improvised weapon, either way you won't be able to hurt a fly with it, so I wouldn't worry. As a new player one of the most important things is to argue as little as possible with the DM. If you spend alot of time arguing about pointless little things that effect nothing, then you raise the chances of being ignored about things that do matter
Cartigan 09-21-07, 01:27 PM	My character strength is 4 which give me -3 strength modifier, so the broom will have -7 penalty to attack roll!!! You're a bloody sorcerer, stop whining that you can't attack. You already have a strength of 4, what the hell do you think you are going to do with any sort of weapon?
buzzsawl 09-21-07, 01:44 PM	Uhh .. I don't think so. This WAS a flyng broom, but NOW this is just a normal broom, it can't fly or doing anything magical, it's completely dispelled. I was thinking that damaged magic items cost 1/2 original base price to repair...but now I can't find any referrence in the SRD... In any case...as long as the broom is an ex-magic item for flavor and mechanically/financially won't offer any big advantages, disregard what I said previously. Edit: found that rule I was looking for You can also mend a broken wondrous item if it is one that you could make. Doing so costs half the XP, half the raw materials, and half the time it would take to craft that item in the first place.(SRD, under Craft Wondrous Item)
sweet_kungfuman 09-22-07, 01:26 PM	buzzsawl, big thanks for the wondrous item repair cost info!! You're very nice :D !! Cartigan's quote: You're a bloody sorcerer, stop whining that you can't attack. You already have a strength of 4, what the hell do you think you are going to do with any sort of weapon? Uhh .. well, I need it for my character concept and I know very well that it won't give me any advantage in battle. If I end up bashing monster with a melee weapon, that means that I'm alone, has nowhere to run, run out of spell, and in a deep deep trouble. Just like you said, I'm a BLOODY SORCERER!! Senevri's quote: HOW on earth does a broom do less damage than an untrained fist? According to the manual, unarmed strike deals 1d3 non lethal damage, so I think 1d3 lethal damage is already pretty good. One of the witch class in the community also give 1d3 damage to the broom. So I think I'll stick with 1d3 damage ^_^ for a broom. Though it doesn't matter anymore ... T_T, I offer my DM the idea about small quarterstaff which is used as a broom (like some people suggest), and he reject it ... T_T. Sigh .... , I think I'll just build a combat effective character like every people suggest and forget about my character concept and her broom. Player can still battle and roleplay even without any unique and cool character concept. Goodbye everyone!! I love you!!
Rodimal 09-30-07, 03:23 AM	a 4 strength. I knew there was a reason we reroll ones in our character creation (and for hit points). Out
Ravenscroft 09-30-07, 06:10 AM	a 4 strength. I knew there was a reason we reroll ones in our character creation (and for hit points). This is probably the reason that i give all players maximum hit points per level and a stat array of 18 , 18 , 16 , 16 , 14 , 14.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 09-30-07, 12:17 PM	Sigh .... , I think I'll just build a combat effective character like every people suggest and forget about my character concept and her broom. Player can still battle and roleplay even without any unique and cool character concept. Goodbye everyone!! I love you!! No. Don't do this. It will ruin your fun. Stick to what you *want* to play.
CCS 09-30-07, 02:33 PM	Here's some advice; You're brand new to this system. Learn to play it as written 1st. THEN try and tinker with the rules. Others have already mentioned this I'm sure. And you'll likely ignore it & keep trying to tinker too early. But it still had to be said. Moving on though.... The only important bit on the height/weight chart is the min. age. Presumably it takes at least x time before you know enough to go out into the world.... Even that ceases to matter given enough experience playing these games though. But for now keep the min. age at least. As for the broom & it's use as a weapon. In my game a broom would be an improvised weapon - with all of that class of penalties. Were I feeling lenient I'd just treat it as a staff. * I CAN see it being viewed as an exotic weapon though - just think of how it'd be employed in a Jackie Chan movie. That'd be a mean broom.... Game-effect wise classing it as an exotic weapon will provide you an advantage should you invest in the feat. IE; It'll remove the penalty for it being an improvised weapon. It'll also allow you to use any other broom you find as a weapon. So even though you likely aren't envisioning using it quite like Mr. Chan, stop complaining & just take the feat. ** I recall reading one reply that was solely concerned about the broom being worth xxx GP value, & it being way too valuable to have at 1st lev. I really hope that poster was attempting to be funny. Because there's nothing to indicate that our newest witch has anything more than a normal, non-magical broom at the moment. In fact the player mentions they have plans to spend the $ etc to have it "fixed", IE turned into a broom of flying. So at BEST all they have is a master-worked broom. (wich btw, would be my reasoning to count it as a staff & not an improvised weapon) Oh no, not that, not a mw-BROOM!
Mock26 10-01-07, 04:45 AM	Stop ranting here and go talk directly to your DM. You have gotten enough feedback from people here to help you, now, go talk with the DM. Show him the responses here if you think it will help.
sweet_kungfuman 10-01-07, 11:47 PM	I really hope that the problem is gone after I gave up my character concept, but unfortunately it's not. Some days ago, my DM friend accused me for powergaming. I don't understand this. Our party's Riding Dog (owned by a druid) got most of the kills, the second place is the Paladin. I may be in the 3rd or 4th place. My witch concept even spent 2 feat for useless thing (broom weapon finesse and craft wondrous item). I'm sucks in King of Fighters and got owned in DOTA and a terrible gamer. My DM friend know this and he accused me for powergaming? a few days ago, I tell him that I gave up my character concept and normal sorcerer will do for me, but I want to change my character's name, age, height, and weight. At that time, I'm planning to use my Dice roll on the height, weight, and age. He agreed and I feel relieved. This argumentation finally came to an end. In the next day, he ask me to reconsider my decision and offer another solution on my broom. And yes, another pointless argumentation. In the end, it seems that he can understand the fact that giving up the witch concept is the best solution. The next day, I explain that this new concept is a battle focused sorcerer, with empower and maximize spell and other offensive stuff. I always love damage ^_^. Well, this is the start of the new trouble, he said that a DM's goal is to make the player happy, but if I dare to try the battle focused sorcerer idea, he is going to kill my character. It seems that he hate character with nothing but battle feat or maybe he still think that I'm trying to do powergaming stuff. I believed that this whole problem is a complete misunderstanding because he has to many negative opinion and assumption imposed on me. I'm to tired to clear these matter because it means another argumentation, so I'm posting here to rant. quoting my own post: Player can still battle and roleplay even without any unique and cool character concept. After his powergaming accusation and murder threat. I'm no longer in the mood for any roleplaying ... This game is not for me I guess.
Johnny_Angel 10-02-07, 06:54 AM	To be honest, I don't think he's doing anything really all that bad. I've never had a DM force me to use the height and weight charts, but it's not something I'd be upset about. Strict? yes. Unreasonable? no. As others have said, if he's that new of a DM, he's actually doing a good job from what I can tell. He'll probably loosen up a bit once he gets more experience; until then, honestly, I'd let it go because it sounds like he's doing a good job overall, and it would be a shame if he were discouraged from wanting to play/DM.
Johnny_Angel 10-02-07, 06:56 AM	I really hope that the problem is gone after I gave up my character concept, but unfortunately it's not. Some days ago, my DM friend accused me for powergaming. I don't understand this. Our party's Riding Dog (owned by a druid) got most of the kills, the second place is the Paladin. I may be in the 3rd or 4th place. My witch concept even spent 2 feat for useless thing (broom weapon finesse and craft wondrous item). I'm sucks in King of Fighters and got owned in DOTA and a terrible gamer. My DM friend know this and he accused me for powergaming? a few days ago, I tell him that I gave up my character concept and normal sorcerer will do for me, but I want to change my character's name, age, height, and weight. At that time, I'm planning to use my Dice roll on the height, weight, and age. He agreed and I feel relieved. This argumentation finally came to an end. In the next day, he ask me to reconsider my decision and offer another solution on my broom. And yes, another pointless argumentation. In the end, it seems that he can understand the fact that giving up the witch concept is the best solution. The next day, I explain that this new concept is a battle focused sorcerer, with empower and maximize spell and other offensive stuff. I always love damage ^_^. Well, this is the start of the new trouble, he said that a DM's goal is to make the player happy, but if I dare to try the battle focused sorcerer idea, he is going to kill my character. It seems that he hate character with nothing but battle feat or maybe he still think that I'm trying to do powergaming stuff. I believed that this whole problem is a complete misunderstanding because he has to many negative opinion and assumption imposed on me. I'm to tired to clear these matter because it means another argumentation, so I'm posting here to rant. quoting my own post: After his powergaming accusation and murder threat. I'm no longer in the mood for any roleplaying ... This game is not for me I guess. Now, I'd say a bit of this sounds unreasonable. I'm not quite sure how to respond to this post.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 10-02-07, 02:54 PM	After his powergaming accusation and murder threat. I'm no longer in the mood for any roleplaying ... This game is not for me I guess. Don't let him put you off the hobby. Find a new DM, one that fits you and your style better. For the record, you sound like someone I would want to DM for and I am sure there are lots out there that feel the same. New DMs are usually pretty lousy, so try to find an experienced one. If you can't find a new DM, then play for a while and try to get your DM to read these forums. Given time and experience he will loosen up and the game will become very, very fun.
Darkmot 10-04-07, 01:53 PM	I am the DM in question. Actually, I have my own thread here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=915065), if you all want to know from my perspective. So anyway... Please don't be too hard on him. I never hate him, in fact, I'm grateful with him on our group, since he was the one that defended his character to play what he like, his enthusiasm is something that I want in all my player. I understood about why he want to play the witch, because in our country, we got both cultural influence from Japan and America, so the witch is pretty reasonable character concept. What I want to do, is not barricading all his move, but I'm trying to find the balance between his character concept and the rules of the game. I want for him to be able to play with his character concept, but deal and work around the rules. Why I'm being lawful? Because this is our first game, so I want to have as less as possible with custom rules until we have printed the game engine in our heart. And please no more suggestions for looking another DM. Not that I hate it, in fact if there is another DM in my town, we both would probably have already played under him. The fact is, I'm pretty sure I'm the only DM in our town, and probably in our country. If you read my thread, I want to exhume D&D in my country, so being the pioneer, too much custom rules is bad example in my opinion. After his powergaming accusation and murder threat. I'm no longer in the mood for any roleplaying ... This game is not for me I guess. So this is why your lack of spirit in our last session? *sigh* This is not the result I want. You know, when I decided to create D&D gaming group, you are the first person I invited, because I know from all of my friends, you are the most enthusiast in D&D (well, Neverwinter Nights actually). I would never thought that my most problematic player would be you. If, in anyway you're offended by me from telling you a power gamer and threatening you, I'm sorry. But it's not without reason. When you said you want to change your character concept, from cute witch to destructive juggernaut, I'm still trying to find a way to make your witch work. I thought you just want to metagaming, because roleplaying your witch is failed. When you said that you still could enjoy the game even if its a destruction sorcerer, I complied. But what shocked me was when I said please that this be the last of your changing data, as it would confuse other player and could make your character not a person, but just few numbers on the paper. Your answer, "I don't care as long as my character is battle effective!". This is not the attitude I want from PC. I then said, if everyone just make the perfect (minmax) character, then we are not roleplaying, which is what this game about. And you said let it be like that. So I said what if I give you highest challenge rating available so it would seem impossible to survive it, and you said it's okay, heroes don't always winning. Words failed me at that point. Where's the fun in that? The purpose of this game is not you beat me or I beat you, but too have good and fun experiences. If I was a PC, I would probably choose silly feats or questionable skill for my class, just for the sake of roleplaying. Why you wouldn't want to sacrifice one of your feat and just want a free Weapon Proficiency is something that I would never understand. On top of that, your race is human! Rest assured that if you do that, I will try to level the challenge with our group. I'm still learning, so if it's too easy, I'll try to fix it in the next session, or if it's too hard, I'll make it easier next time. I'm still trying to understand how challenging my campaign design with our group capability. I hope you read this, because now it seems that you didn't want to talk about this subject again with me directly. If you lost the desire to play, please tell me what should I do to return it. As long as it's fair to everyone, I'll try to make it happen. Because you are the most enthusiast D&D friend that I know, so having a game of D&D without you is kinda wrong. If you keep playing without desire, wouldn't it be a torture for both of us? But in the end it should be your decision, for I will not persuade nor coerce you into it. Thanks.
HCL 10-05-07, 08:28 PM	My two cents: A fourteen year old girl has no place on the battlefield, and neither does a broom. IMO a sorcerer needs to be at least 17-18, its like harry potter. The kid is born with all of this innate power and it takes time for him to learn to focus it. And you need to spend time training to develop your proficiency with simple weapons. As for the broom: it should either be considered makeshift or require an exotic weapon proficiency. A true broom would be akward to fight with, and a specially made quarter staff with wicker tied onto the end wouldnt be much better. FYI "traditional" witches fly around in a giant mortar bowl