Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rumple_Cragstan 09-20-05, 10:53 AM	After trying for a solid 2 years of trying, I've finally gotten my girlfriend's mother to allow her to join my D&D game. But my girlfriend is now a new player in a fairly experienced group, so I figured I'd give her a thread so she could have some good advice to start from. I'll be forwarding this thread to her via email once we have some good replies. She's planning on playing a LN Cleric of Wee Jas. She wants her first domain to be Death, but she's no sure about the second one. I think she has some interest in the undead spells (animate dead, and its higher level brothers), so I figured I'd point that out. Just for note, I do have LM. One storyline thing that I want to point out is that the church of Wee Jas is a prominent (nearly central) part of this nation's political system. Anyways, I'm running out of time on the compy, so I'll leave it at this for now. Any advice for my ladyfriend?
Rhomphaia 09-20-05, 11:24 AM	First of all, I hope she is up for playing a male character. Wee-Jas HATES women. She wants to be the only woman in her religion. She wants to be the only female focus of her clerics. Anyway, with that in mind, remember that Wee-Jas is a deity of Law and Death and Magic primarily. Her clerics run a structured order, with a clear ranking system and proceedures. Your girlfriend's cleric will very likely be Lawful, so her character will have to act in a disciplined manner, pretty much at all times. Also, there are no particular compunctions against undead with this deity as well. If I remember right, Wee-Jas sees undeath as just another stage of life, no different than any other, much like the opposite of the time spent in the womb. A cleric of hers will likely share a similar view. As for game mechanics, Death is a good domain choice, but the others are a little sticky. Magic is a good choice because of its domain ability, but the spells for Law are stronger (though against a more limited crowd). As far as feats go, she would be looked favorably upon not only by Wee-Jas, but other clerics for choosing Weapon Focus (dagger), the preferred weapon of the Ruby Goddess. Other than that, I can't really give out any real advice since I do not know the kind of game your DM wishes to run. hell, he may even have a house rule that clerics of Wee-Jas don't have to be male.
Murrdox 09-20-05, 11:36 AM	A lot of my advice would depend on whether or not your girlfriend wants to play an EVIL cleric or not. I played a NEUTRAL Cleric who worshipped Death a while back. He was really interesting, and very fun to play. However, he worshipped Jergal in the Forgotten Realms, and I do not, off the top of my head, remember the significant differences between Jergal and Wee Jas. I think that Wee Jas may a bit more outright evil than Jergal.
Rhomphaia 09-20-05, 12:03 PM	Wee-Jas is a LN deity of death and magic. She is also very strict. Her clerics are more likely to be evil than other neutral deities, but the only real alignment requirement for her followers I believe is Lawful (there may be something preventing them from being Good, but I don't feel like digging through six books to find out).
Murrdox 09-20-05, 01:34 PM	Well, I'll provide you with the concept for my Cleric of Jergal if you would like to use it for "inspiration" so to speak. He viewed himself as a sort of "Cataloger of the Dead". In addition to this, he thought it was folly to view ALL undead as "evil" and thought that the undead could be made to have purposes in the world. In his adventures, whenever he slayed foes, he would catalog their demise, as well as any other intelligent creatures, either friend or foe, that he encountered. He gave a large portion of his gold to local morgues and churches of the dead, and would assist in funerals. He strove to bring order to the process of death. He also made use of undead servants. He usually had at least 2 skeletons in his service at any given time, and attempted (unsucessfully usually) to persuade those that accused him of being evil that the undead were merely a different form of life, one that should be understood just as the living are. He was very somber, obviously, with not much of a sense of humor. However, he was still relatively friendly, and enjoyed companionship, and valued loyalty. While others were at the Inn drinking and reveling, he would simply have wine brought to his room, and spend the evening meticulously organizing his lists, and praying for each departed soul.
Rhomphaia 09-20-05, 01:43 PM	That actually sounds very much like how a cleric of Wee-Jas might act.
Rumple_Cragstan 09-20-05, 09:19 PM	Sorry for the confusion, but when I said 'my game' I meant to say that I am the DM. And also, I've never read anywhere that Wee Jas only had male clerics... I had actually assumed the opposite, because I figured that the idea of a (nearly) female-only congregation focused around such a contorversial diety would be cool. Well regardless of what the books say (even if I've somehow missed it), I've played with that idea for a few campaigns now, so I can't just turn about and change it. One of the things that my gf likes actually was the idea that it was females almost exclusively (I'll allow exceptions, but they're rare.... like female knights back in the day. So rare as to be practically unique). She's done some looking in the books, and she's planning to be LN with the Death and Magic domains. She's also expressed lots of interest in undead servants, and scince I have Libris Mortis I'm pretty much expecting her to latch onto the Master of Shrouds once she sees it. I was hoping for more RP advice here than anything, but RAW pointers would help too, scince I'm not too experienced with clerics (this will seriously be the first one I've ever had in my game, in all my 4 years of DMing).
feartheinvinceblehamster 09-20-05, 09:48 PM	interesting...i have never read anywhere that Wee Jas has no female clerics. what book is that in? i played a character somewhat like this once. didn't have the death domain but had levels in master of shrouds. somber, wild elf. CN, became that one prestige class that's an athiest cleric? was in dragon. anway, that jergal thing is cool. and i'm not sure if the campaign got far enough for me to have those two prestige classes. just hazy memories.
TheErsatzFacsimileOfMe 09-20-05, 09:53 PM	First of all, I hope she is up for playing a male character. Wee-Jas HATES women. She wants to be the only woman in her religion. She wants to be the only female focus of her clerics. Are you sure this came from a WotC book? I've looked in 2 books (PHB and Deities and Demigods) and haven't found a word about it in there.... Are you sure it's not from a novel....or something you just made up?
HermitIX 09-20-05, 11:49 PM	I would take the magic domain because I think being able to use arcane scrolls and wands is way more useful than +1 caster level to law spells. For character design I would give her red robes. I think a good personality trait for a cleric of wee-jas would be taking great care in her appearance. She could mirror in the inventory along with soap. A disguise kit could be used to primp. She will not stay at an inn that does not have adequate hygiene facilities. The morning grooming could be part of prayer. I would point out that taking care in ones appearance is not the same as being vain. She could endeavor to collect rubies. These would be donated to the church as a tithe. I think Wee-Jas has a thing for rubies. Wee-Jas likes the dagger but I think it would be impractical to use a dagger if you can use something better. I would have her carry a ceremonial dagger, but use a mace. Undead.. I hear wee-jas doesn’t like them. They are a perversion of true death. But it is entirely possible I made that up. If you’re not going with the undead are perversions of death thing. Maybe you could say that some undead are ok while others are not. Sentient undead are ok but mindless are not or vise versa. Or corporeal undead should be destroyed, but incorporeal are to be helped move on. Undead that made them selves undead deliberately should be walloped upside the head with a +5 disrupting Mace. Undead who just discovered them selves undead one day are to be pitied, but left alone. The whole death thing. She should adopt a philosophy on death. A LE cleric would think all things deserve to die. LG all should die but only when the time is right. LN every thing dies, it is not “my” place to decide who should live or die… something like that. I think clerics should poor points in to knowledge religion and leave knowledge arcane to the wizards, but in the case of wee-jas I think a few points in knowledge arcane would be a good idea. If Wee-Jas is the most influential church I would wonder how that came about. Was there a plague a few hundred years ago? So many people died that every one stated worshiping the death goddess to get on her good side before the end came? Don’t forget that Wee-Jas is also the goddess of Magic and Law she takes those aspects just as seriously as Death. To work in some arcane magic in to the mix, your PC could have Sorcerer potential as a child she could have manifested all manor of weird effects. But has grown out of it. This would be an interesting back up reason why she can use scrolls and such. A few good questions to think about. Why did she join the church? How does she feel about assisted death? How does she feel about magical healing vs natural healing? Why is she a Cleric not a Wizard? Any way those are my notes.
OctoberRaven 09-21-05, 12:12 AM	For character design I would give her red robes. Actually, according to the DMG, they wear black and grey robes. Page 143, right-hand colun, last sentence under the "Wee Jas" paragraph.
Doctor_Jello 09-21-05, 12:28 AM	First to counter that only male claim. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cc/20030222a Next, for those of you that don't know, weejas doesn't create chaotic evil undead such as devourers, and vampires and the like. What you do to you is on you. She doesn't have any adversaries and the perfect alignment for a necro of weejas is LE. She is worshipped by necromancers as well which would help her in the long run. And if you read about her in 3E she also had the pestilence prestige domain as well. In 3.5 they combined prestige and regular domains. I used to play a cleric of wee jas. I do recommend the magic domain for your cleric, or if you are going for the necro side, go for the pestilence domain. If you want some stats on that PM at i_like_lionfish@yahoo.com. and yes she does have a cabal of liches who serve her as advisors. not only that but if you were in a high power campaign, i would definately allow a gestalt cleric / sorceror
OctoberRaven 09-21-05, 12:37 AM	Of course, even if you just want one domain's abilities, you should still choose two. I think the Death Domain ability is perhaps one of the most useful in the game, even if it's a little weak (to offset the fact that its a death effect with no saving throw). (One use is to use it on a dead/dying enemy and then take a move action, which can't be done with CDG) and if the opponent is nearly dead (which you can sense with Deathwatch) and you have enough HD, you can nearly gaurantee an instant, no save kill.
Rumple_Cragstan 09-21-05, 04:54 PM	I like the concepts that have been offered, and the cleric player has recently created an account, so she'll probably post her specific questions some time soon, if she has any. I think that most of the general questions have been answered, but if anyone else wants to add anything that they think would help, add it. This is an extremely new player, and this is her first character. Even the most simple of tips would be appreciated, because I don't know much about clerics (I've never played one, and this is the first one I've ever had in my game). I'm planning on this being a moderate/low-power game, so no gestalt for anybody. Hell, there's no more than 1 PrC for anyone either.
clarkvalentine 09-22-05, 01:36 PM	Advice: Think creatively. Once upon a time I GMed for a LN cleric of Wee Jas (he was cleric/wziard, actually) who was a professional mortician. He roleplayed it great - a creepy guy with an odd but harmless fascination with death who ran the town's undertaker shop/funeral arranger.
StoneTears15 09-27-05, 07:07 PM	I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who helped me, its all apprieciated.
The Morninglord 09-28-05, 10:33 AM	I'd suggest you point her to Tyralandi Scrimm (http://paizo.com/dungeon/messageboards/dnd/campaignJournals/ageOfWormsAdventurePathPlaytestTyralandi Scrimm)'s journal at Paizo's messageboards (unless you intend to play the Age of Worms adventure path, that is). James Jacobs is writing a journal from the adventure path through the eyes of Tyralandi Scrimm, a LN cleric of Wee Jas. Your girlfriend may get some pointers on how it can be played there.
Rumple_Cragstan 09-28-05, 10:59 AM	I'm not playing Age of Worms, so that will be fine for her to read (posting it here so she knows). Also, she's having some troubles with character motivation (why she chose to become a cleric of Wee Jas), so if anyone has any ideas, please share. And for future notice StoneTears, seriously, don't be scared to ask any questions you have! We've all seen threads about paladins killing babies, and if thats an evil act.... there's not much you could ask that would stun the people here on the boards.
Surprise 09-28-05, 02:26 PM	What I'm about to post is paraphrased from Compete Divine, hopefully this will provide some motivation (role-playing wise that is). Wee Jas's portfolio is death, magic and vanity. A portfolio refers to concepts that a god takes particular notice in. In this case, Wee Jas is always aware the moment someone dies, uses magic or exhibits vain behavior. A cleric of Wee Jas would probably want to gain as much attention from Wee Jas as possible (because that would be vain) by exhibiting behaviors that draw Wee Jas attention. Clerics are trained in academic fashion (classroom, exams, etc.). It is expected of all clerics to be properly groomed with appropriate clerical vestments inside the temples as well. Quests that gain Wee Jas' favor are searching for powerful magics that bridge the gap between life and death. For example, rebuilding plundered tombs, resurrecting wise men/women or trraveling the planes to seek knowledge of long dead wizards would be sponsored by the goddess. Prayers are usually litanies to long dead "honored ancestors." Imagine the Litany of Saints from Catholicism but in terms of DnD and that would be a good example of a prayer to Wee Jas. The temples of Wee Jas are more like funeral homes. They provide services for the dead (for a donation) and their rites are very similar to funeral rites. Prominent spellcasters that have passed away are most likely to find their resting place underneath a temple of Wee Jas in their extensive catacombs. I hope this was helpful for character motivation, -Surprise
Millennium 09-28-05, 02:55 PM	One of Wee Jas' most popular titles is "Stern Lady". It is likely that her clerics would emulate this stern demeanor. As with Hades in Complete Divine, Wee Jas isn't malevolent towards her followers, but she's the type to teach that death is something which happens to all mortals, and even though it brings grief it must be accepted. LG priests might be more inclined to comfort the bereaved, and although priests of other alignments wouldn't stop them from doing that, they'd probably also be content to leave that duty to the Good-aligned priests. A Lawful Neutral priest, as you're mentioning, would be more likely to take a no-nonsense approach to death, magic, and most other things. I very much like the idea of working a sort of ritual grooming into morning rituals; that's very much in line with the idea of a goddess of vanity. For example, a priest might run a brush through her hair, reciting the name of an honored saint (actually powerful spellcasters of all alignments, in Wee Jas' case, but I suspect her church would call them saints) for each stroke, until she had named 100 saints. That could make for an interesting form of meditation.
Rumple_Cragstan 09-28-05, 05:18 PM	Yeah, I have access to Complete Divine, Deities and Demigods, Libris Mortis (I find it strange how little coverage Wee jas got in LM, with the exception of the Ruby Order she got completely ignored), and pretty much any book that would be of use. So mention them, and bring things out from the books that you think would be of use. Also, thanks for bringing up the Vanity part of her, I completely forgot while I was trying to help Stonetears to mention that aspect of Wee Jas. As well, I don't know all the details about the whole 'prayers are more about saints than the god' idea, and I don't think that the player quite understans it either. Does the spellcaster in quesion need to be a follower of Wee Jas, or can it just be a powerful spellcaster? For example, the current ruler of the Nation (Mina Flamingsoul) is not a follower of Wee Jas, but she is an extremely powerful sorceror. The ruler before her (Maximillian Greave) was also a superbly powerful Sorceror, but also a follower of Wee Jas (in fact he instated her as the Nation's prime religion). Now would both of these spellcasters be applicable for prayer, or only Greave?
Surprise 09-28-05, 10:39 PM	I would say that the prayers are usually reserved for those that have already passed away. If Maximillian Greave has passed, then yeah, he would be worthy of veneration from Wee Jas's clerics. It could go something like, "Maximillian Greave once said...." or, "Grant me the serenity Maximillian Greave had when facing his foes on the day of ...." Wee Jas prefers to venerate those she deems honorable than having her clerics profess her will upon others. -Surprise