How to fight Swarms? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How to fight Swarms? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DMK69
10-06-06, 08:47 PM Swarm Traits: A swarm has no clear front or back and no discernible anatomy, so it is not subject to critical hits or flanking. A swarm made up of Tiny creatures takes half damage from slashing and piercing weapons.Reducing a swarm to 0 hit points or fewer causes the swarm to break up, though damage taken until that point does not degrade its ability to attack or resist attack. Swarms are never staggered or reduced to a dying state by damage. Also, they cannot be tripped, grappled, or bull rushed, and they cannot grapple another. A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of mind-affecting effects if the swarm has an Intelligence score and a hive mind. A swarm takes a -10 penalty on saving throws against spells or effects that affect an area, such as many evocation spells or grenadelike weapons. If the area attack does not allow a saving throw, a swarm takes double damage instead.

I've read pretty much everything in the MM, I just couldn't find any strategy tips on how to fight swarms. Some questions that come to mind are...

1. If the swarm is attacking one of the PCs and another PC attacks the swarm.....how does that work? Is there the possibility of hitting the PC being attacked by the swarm as they are in the same space?
2. A PC being attacked by a swarm, I assume retreat works fine with no AoO? Running from the swarm would give an AoO?
3. I'm sure some of you have fought against swarms in the past....what strategys have you found best for fighting them?

Thanks in advance for any info! :D
JezzTheLame
10-06-06, 08:58 PM You pretty well need some type of mage to fight a swarm. More specifically an evoker. That -10 to saves or double damage really hurts. cone of cold and fireball both work wonders,
Aeromus
10-06-06, 09:15 PM Swarms don't threaten squares. They have to enter your square to attack.
Thubby
10-06-06, 10:23 PM swarms cant aoo,
area of effect, be it alchemist fire, or fireball. *hint hint*
as for the "attack friend by accident" if your close enough to attack the swarm, you can see your friend, since they only act like fog (correct me if im wrong). and since you can see him, you can simply attack somewhere else (be that another square the swarm takes, or a small part of your friends square) seriously, 5 by 5 takes up WAY more space than a normal human takes up
Artector
10-06-06, 10:26 PM Alchemical Items. Spells. That's pretty much your choices.
TheWerg
10-06-06, 10:58 PM Don't get incapped in the middle of a swarm. Worst thing that can happen. Other than that, just hit it with magic spells and, if it's Tiny, bludgeoning weapons. The problem with AoE spells is that swarms tend to share spaces with your compadres.
Mandarbgrim
10-07-06, 12:29 PM So....I've been curious..rays & touch spells would still work then?
LordHawkeye
10-07-06, 12:35 PM Nope, any attack with a specific number of targets is no good.
Mandarbgrim
10-07-06, 01:16 PM Why do they have an AC then? I don't really understand that.. So..they are vulnerable to the only thing that can really be used against them...AoE.

A few games ago the party in my game went up against a Shredstorm...does the Dragon Shaman's Energy Shield elemental damage count? I ruled that it did, but...
Cifer
10-07-06, 07:20 PM Why do they have an AC then? I don't really understand that..
Tiny creature swarms are not immune to weapon damage.
Mandarbgrim
10-07-06, 08:56 PM Right. I guess just for them it is useful, but most swarms that I have seen seem to be smaller, so...eh.. Just seems kinda weird.
KnaveofClubs
10-07-06, 11:43 PM Pine Tar on weapons+fire. Happy hunting ;). Or even try to light it by pouring oil on your weapons.
Cifer
10-08-06, 06:49 PM @Knave
I'd be careful about that - it tends to ruin the weapons...
Magus Gar Kan
10-10-06, 02:34 PM Lots of fire and with great prejudice.
mudbunny
10-10-06, 04:56 PM Lots of fire and with great prejudice.

That's how another player and I dealt with a couple of rat swarms that our DM sicced on us. Silly him for making them go through a door/choke point first.

3 pints of oil + two torches +3 Rat Swarms = one disappointed DM with a rather disgusted look on his face after we starting channeling Beavis and Butthead...

Heh heh heh. Fire!! Fire!!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DMK69 10-06-06, 08:47 PM	Swarm Traits: A swarm has no clear front or back and no discernible anatomy, so it is not subject to critical hits or flanking. A swarm made up of Tiny creatures takes half damage from slashing and piercing weapons.Reducing a swarm to 0 hit points or fewer causes the swarm to break up, though damage taken until that point does not degrade its ability to attack or resist attack. Swarms are never staggered or reduced to a dying state by damage. Also, they cannot be tripped, grappled, or bull rushed, and they cannot grapple another. A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of mind-affecting effects if the swarm has an Intelligence score and a hive mind. A swarm takes a -10 penalty on saving throws against spells or effects that affect an area, such as many evocation spells or grenadelike weapons. If the area attack does not allow a saving throw, a swarm takes double damage instead. I've read pretty much everything in the MM, I just couldn't find any strategy tips on how to fight swarms. Some questions that come to mind are... 1. If the swarm is attacking one of the PCs and another PC attacks the swarm.....how does that work? Is there the possibility of hitting the PC being attacked by the swarm as they are in the same space? 2. A PC being attacked by a swarm, I assume retreat works fine with no AoO? Running from the swarm would give an AoO? 3. I'm sure some of you have fought against swarms in the past....what strategys have you found best for fighting them? Thanks in advance for any info! :D
JezzTheLame 10-06-06, 08:58 PM	You pretty well need some type of mage to fight a swarm. More specifically an evoker. That -10 to saves or double damage really hurts. cone of cold and fireball both work wonders,
Aeromus 10-06-06, 09:15 PM	Swarms don't threaten squares. They have to enter your square to attack.
Thubby 10-06-06, 10:23 PM	swarms cant aoo, area of effect, be it alchemist fire, or fireball. hint hint as for the "attack friend by accident" if your close enough to attack the swarm, you can see your friend, since they only act like fog (correct me if im wrong). and since you can see him, you can simply attack somewhere else (be that another square the swarm takes, or a small part of your friends square) seriously, 5 by 5 takes up WAY more space than a normal human takes up
Artector 10-06-06, 10:26 PM	Alchemical Items. Spells. That's pretty much your choices.
TheWerg 10-06-06, 10:58 PM	Don't get incapped in the middle of a swarm. Worst thing that can happen. Other than that, just hit it with magic spells and, if it's Tiny, bludgeoning weapons. The problem with AoE spells is that swarms tend to share spaces with your compadres.
Mandarbgrim 10-07-06, 12:29 PM	So....I've been curious..rays & touch spells would still work then?
LordHawkeye 10-07-06, 12:35 PM	Nope, any attack with a specific number of targets is no good.
Mandarbgrim 10-07-06, 01:16 PM	Why do they have an AC then? I don't really understand that.. So..they are vulnerable to the only thing that can really be used against them...AoE. A few games ago the party in my game went up against a Shredstorm...does the Dragon Shaman's Energy Shield elemental damage count? I ruled that it did, but...
Cifer 10-07-06, 07:20 PM	Why do they have an AC then? I don't really understand that.. Tiny creature swarms are not immune to weapon damage.
Mandarbgrim 10-07-06, 08:56 PM	Right. I guess just for them it is useful, but most swarms that I have seen seem to be smaller, so...eh.. Just seems kinda weird.
KnaveofClubs 10-07-06, 11:43 PM	Pine Tar on weapons+fire. Happy hunting ;). Or even try to light it by pouring oil on your weapons.
Cifer 10-08-06, 06:49 PM	@Knave I'd be careful about that - it tends to ruin the weapons...
Magus Gar Kan 10-10-06, 02:34 PM	Lots of fire and with great prejudice.
mudbunny 10-10-06, 04:56 PM	Lots of fire and with great prejudice. That's how another player and I dealt with a couple of rat swarms that our DM sicced on us. Silly him for making them go through a door/choke point first. 3 pints of oil + two torches +3 Rat Swarms = one disappointed DM with a rather disgusted look on his face after we starting channeling Beavis and Butthead... Heh heh heh. Fire!! Fire!!