Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mimic2000 08-03-06, 11:28 AM	I'm a ranged rogue, and I just can't seem to find any ways to get my sneak attacks off. Maybe I just don't understand the rules well enough, but I'm going entire adventures(with plenty of fighting) and no chances for sneak attack. That really knocks the wind out of being a rogue
albinomonkeyking 08-03-06, 12:02 PM	Well, you need you opponent to be flat-footed, denied their dex in some form. You could focus on a really high initiative, if you beat your opponents in initiative you will catch them flat footed first round and get a sneak attack. If your range is good you are going to need to find a way to shoot and vanish, without a hide item this will be very hard. Or, you could simply by an item which grants invisibilty. A player of mine had a rogue with a wand with 50 charges of invisibility that cost him virtually nothing and he got sneak attack every attack because no one could see him. Unless by ranged rogue you mean 'throwing weapons' then you aren't eligible for quick draw (at least....I don't think so..) which would allow you to make an opponent flat footed once a round when you draw a weapon. Next go for flanking. In my opinion this is the best option if you can get your team to work well with you. Getting a full round of sneak attacks is pretty fantastic. Good luck!
Dunelord 08-03-06, 12:19 PM	Unless by ranged rogue you mean 'throwing weapons' then you aren't eligible for quick draw (at least....I don't think so..) which would allow you to make an opponent flat footed once a round when you draw a weapon. Drawing a weapon doesn't make you open too, or anyone else open to sneak attacks. To have more chances to flank you can get a weapon like a spiked chain so you threaten more squares. If somone else in the party has one then you can flank when the enemy (if they don't have reach) can't even reach you. You can take levels in the invisable blade PrC to feint as a free action. Or the feat that lets you feint as a move action. Max out your bluff and put 5 ranks into all the skills that give you a +2 to bluff to get the score really high. You can spend more time around monks, or anyone with stunning fist, so when they enemy is stunned you can sneak attack them. Some spells like Hold Person make someone open to this. Any creature at negative hit points is denied their dex. It might sound a bit unsporting BUT when the Troll gets back up you will wish you had. Hide in Plain sight if you go into a PrC that has it helps A LOT. Magic items that let you do more sneak attack are good, as are feats since they will let you get the most out of the sneak attack you do get to make. Take a look at the Rules of the Game on Sneak Attack. Part 1 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040217a Part 2 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040224a Part 3 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040302a Part 4 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040309a
SoldierOfFortune187 08-03-06, 12:20 PM	Flanking is probably the single greatest way to ensure you can get your sneak attack damage. Either yourself or a teammate needs to maneuver into flanking positions and viola, bonuses to hit for you both and sneak attack damage for you. Also keep in mind that creatures that have yet to act in the first round of combat are flat-footed, and denied their Dexterity bonus. Improved Initiative + high Dex = act first in combat, get the drop (sneak attack) on an opponent.
Some_call_me_Tim 08-03-06, 12:39 PM	I'm a ranged rogueI think I see your problem. :P Playing a ranged rogue is much harder to get sneak attack with. "The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC, or when the rogue flanks her target." Well, you just eliminated half of the things that allow you to sneak attack. You could flank or feint, as others have pointed out, but then you aren't a ranged rogue anymore are you. So to play an effective ranged rogue, you have to rely on having the target lose his Dexterity bonus to AC. The first way to do that is catch him flat-footed--beat his initiative roll. Improved Initative is your friend, with your already high Dexterity you should go first in a lot of combats, attack the opponents that are slower than you. Rapid shot is another feat you may want, so that when you do beat the opponent you can really stick it to him. The second way to catch them off-guard is to not be seen. Invisibility or Hide in Plain Sight help here. Remember that you will likely only get one shot every other round if you use an item. Even Hide in Plain Sight means only one sneak attack per round at best. Improved Invisibility is the key. Lastly, either requires help from your pointy-hatted friend, cross-classing or Use Magic Device. My personal favorite, grease and sneak attack. Someone who is balancing with fewer than 5 ranks of balance skill is considered flat-footed. Here's the list of conditions that allow you to sneak attack: blinded cowering flat-footed (not acted yet in combat, balancing or climbing) grappling helpless (paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious) stunned Blindness works well. Fear and then cornering your victim. As mentioned before grease. Grappling you have to worry about hitting your friend, so try to avoid this solution. Hold person, or sleep are very effective. There are lots of things that will stun a victim color spary or a friendly monk are two low-level methods. Fight smarter not harder.
Salla 08-03-06, 01:38 PM	I also recommend looking over the Hiding rules in the PHB, and the Sniping subrules, as well as using Bluff to create a distraction to hide while being observed. It's a lot of work, but if you can't get a setup going easily, it's better than nothing.
Zherog 08-03-06, 01:40 PM	Just to correct a few things said earlier. You can't use flanking with ranged attacks. Nor can you use feinting with ranged attacks. They're both great options for a melee rogue, but don't do diddly for a ranged rogue. Tim's method of the grease spell is a really good one. If there's a monk in your group, attack whoever the monk stuns. Get a ring of blink or other similar item.
Bulletproof_Condom 08-03-06, 03:46 PM	You're a ranged rogue? So you've got a reasonably high Dex? Take Weapon Finesse and maybe Two-Weapon Fighting, get yourself a shortsword or two, and close in once in a while. Get your melee tactics back.
CryoSilver 08-03-06, 07:03 PM	Improved Invisiblity!
Louist 08-03-06, 08:36 PM	Being a ranged rogue, you're going to be seeing a lot fewer sneak attacks just for that. Flanking is perhaps the number one condition for granting SA, but as stated above, only works in melee. I would suggest trying to do a little melee fighting once in a while. And with the feat expert tactician, you can double your melee earned sneak attacks. If you wish to stay at range, then you can try some of the options listed above.
Louist 08-03-06, 08:42 PM	Unless by ranged rogue you mean 'throwing weapons' then you aren't eligible for quick draw (at least....I don't think so..) which would allow you to make an opponent flat footed once a round when you draw a weapon. You'/re thinking of the feat Flick of the Wrist, which allows you to draw a light weapon and make an attack, for which your opponent is considered flat footed. Only works once per combat, I believe.
scout989 08-03-06, 11:59 PM	PHBII has a coupla feats that expand your ranged SA options. Deadeye Shot helps get more opportunities for SA, and Crossbow Sniper helps increase SA range from 30' to 60'. There's another feat called Fell Blow, though I can't remember its provenance at the moment. Hope that helps.
King_Bulba 08-04-06, 03:28 AM	Tri-kreen with aberation blood to gain 2 tenticals! LOL That is fun to think about. 4 Claws, 1 bite and 2 tenticals. That is 7 attacks! With improved unarmed strike you get 8 attacks and use your IUS to get irritative attacks as well. One level of monk would get you IUS and flurry to get another attack. At 20 that is hmmm Kreen HD2 LA1/monk1/rogue 6/Nightsong enforcer 10. BAB 16 thats 4 attacks, 5 NAttacks, 2 tentical attacks(makes 7 NAttacks) and a flurry for a total of 12 attacks at 7d6 SA each(add 19 dmg per attack with craven). If you can get TWF in there you get another attack. Now that is something to fear. WOW that looks fun... Get someone to help flank, buy a ring of invisability, have the druid summon animals for you. I have never seen a rogue not able to get SA when the party is able to help. I dont know how to really help you becuase I have never experianced situations where I cant SA. You get ac via 2 ways. When you flank, and when your target is denied its dex bonus. Surprise is one route but limited. Try having the party wizard grease the ground of enamies and make sure you have 5 ranks of balance. Why waste a high level spell when a level 1 spell combined with a rogue is more effective. Anyone who does not have 5 ranks of balance are flatfooted while balancing, like climbing..., thus grease enables sneak attacks on most creatures that are not immune. You can always take ranks in UMD and buy a wand of grease and do it yourself. UMD is an amazing skill...
Zherog 08-04-06, 11:17 AM	He's looking for help with ranged attacks. ;) And with the feat expert tactician, you can double your melee earned sneak attacks. If you wish to stay at range, then you can try some of the options listed above. Sounds like you're describing the 3.0 version of the feat. The feat was rewritten in either Complete Warrior or Complete Adventurer and is completely different from the super-cool "free standard action, including an attack, when your enemy is flat-footed" version. One way to increase your sneak attacks with ranged attacks is to just make sure you go first and get as many attacks as possible in the surprise round and first round of combat. To this end, the feats Improved Initiative and Rapid Shot are your friends. If you're using thrown weapons, you'll also want Two-Weapon Fighting and Quickdraw. You can stack together Rapid Shot and TWF (though both penalties apply, so while you can, you may not want to). In rounds after the first, you can either go with the sniping rules (see the Hide skill), or enter melee. If you have a wizard (or sorcerer) or monk in your party, you can rely on them to help you set up additional ranged sneaks (see above).
archerpwr 08-04-06, 01:48 PM	what you are trying to do is play a ninja without the fun ninja class abilities. a ninja gets sudden strike at same rate and dmg as rogue but cant use flanking to get. Ninja gets unarmored ac bonus and ki abilitys. including swift invisibility at 2nd lvl. see if your dm will allow you to just die and trade in for a ninja much better for ranged sneak atttacks than rogue and all you lose is 2 skill points per lvl.
Dunelord 08-04-06, 02:04 PM	Two weapon fighting with thrown weapons, haste and/or boots of haste, rapid shoot. Monks Flurry of blows.
mimic2000 08-07-06, 11:36 AM	How would throwing daggers, or throwing items for that matter, affect my sneak attacks differently from my ranged shots from my composit bow?
Morka 08-07-06, 12:25 PM	How would throwing daggers, or throwing items for that matter, affect my sneak attacks differently from my ranged shots from my composit bow? While using a bow, you can use Rapid Shot to get 1 extra (sneak) attack / round. While using throwing daggers, you can use Rapid Shot for an extra attack, Two-Weapon Fighting for another extra attack, Improved TWF and Greater TWF for an extra attack each, and a monk's flurry of blow for yet another extra attack. But at this point, all your attacks are at -6 on the attack roll. But for all these attack to be sneak attacks, you need to have your opponent flat-footed. So back to the basics: high Init, use greater invisibility, have him be climbing/balancing.
SirVimes 08-07-06, 12:42 PM	If you are willing to use throwing weapons instead of a bow, look into the Master Thrower prestige class from the Complete Warrior for at least a 1 level dip to get Sneaky Shot. With that, you can make a move action Bluff check to have your target lose their Dex bonus.
Benicus 08-07-06, 01:53 PM	Hmmm...well I am also a rogue but I am using two repeater crossbows (one light one heavy) at level four and was wondering what advice you'd give for me as well for getting SA.
The_Ditto 08-07-06, 02:40 PM	best method is invisibility ... (or preferably greater invisibility, since invisibility wears off after the first shot .. ) Another option is a combination of concealment and being able to see through it. Our group's druid has set off a couple spells, like Obscuring mist, then a spell that allows us to see through the mist ... opponent's can't see, so the rogue gets her sneak ... It's a pretty good combo that has a longer duration than greater invisibility, harder to counter, and uses lower level spells .. :tiphat: Back to the question at hand .. it's all about not being seen ... in some fashion ...
Toloran 08-07-06, 02:55 PM	Question: Does Many shot work with sneak attack? So if you shoot three arrows do you get your sneak attack damage added to each arrow or the total attack? For quick reference (from the SRD) MANYSHOT [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Dex 17, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, base attack bonus +6 Benefit: As a standard action, you may fire two arrows at a single opponent within 30 feet. Both arrows use the same attack roll (with a –4 penalty) to determine success and deal damage normally (but see Special). For every five points of base attack bonus you have above +6, you may add one additional arrow to this attack, to a maximum of four arrows at a base attack bonus of +16. However, each arrow after the second adds a cumulative –2 penalty on the attack roll (for a total penalty of –6 for three arrows and –8 for four). Damage reduction and other resistances apply separately against each arrow fired. Special: Regardless of the number of arrows you fire, you apply precision-based damage only once. If you score a critical hit, only the first arrow fired deals critical damage; all others deal regular damage. A fighter may select Manyshot as one of his fighter bonus feats. A 6th-level ranger who has chosen the archery combat style is treated as having Manyshot even if he does not have the prerequisites for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor.
GnomeBarbarian 08-07-06, 03:26 PM	If you are willing to use a diffrent weapon rather than bow there is akiller combo for melee and thrown SA. If you take improved crit and telling blow then anytime you roll 15-20 then you are making a sneak attack. There are also a few other feats that will allow you to improve your crit even further and then allowing you to SA more often.
Dreamfeed 08-07-06, 04:26 PM	Question: Does Many shot work with sneak attack? So if you shoot three arrows do you get your sneak attack damage added to each arrow or the total attack? As your quick reference says, precision-based damage applies only once, and sneak attack is precision-based. So no. However, expanded Psionic Handbook (in the SRD) gives us a solution to that problem: From the SRD: Greater Manyshot [General] You are skilled at firing many arrows at once, even at different opponents. Prerequisites Dex 17, Manyshot, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, base attack bonus +6. Benefit When you use the Manyshot feat, you can fire each arrow at a different target instead of firing all of them at the same target. You make a separate attack roll for each arrow, regardless of whether you fire them at separate targets or the same target. Your precision-based damage applies to each arrow fired, and, if you score a critical hit with more than one of the arrows, each critical hit deals critical damage. Special A fighter may select this feat as one of his fighter bonus feats. It's general, so anyone can take it (provided they meet the prerequisites). Manyshot by itself is still good for sniping, though, since you only get one attack anyway.
kelvinaw273 08-07-06, 04:41 PM	With a ranged rogue you need to be a sniper: creep close, nail a target, withdraw. Sneak back later, pick another target, nail them and get out again. Naturally, this is not conducive to team play, unless your plan is to soften up the opposition for your friends to deal with. If you want to be a ranged rogue in full melee combat, take a Scout from Complete Adventurer instead. The requirements of skirmish are that you move ten feet to get the damage and AC bonus. You can then be a good mobile fighter.
Asperazin 08-07-06, 05:09 PM	I was thinking of doing a ranged rogue as a replacement in a quest running now. It will go something like this Human Rogue 3 Fighter 2 Invisible blade 1 Master thrower 1 The levels of the prcs may be intertwined for how I feel as I level. The important things are ofcourse feats and what you take as master thrower. For feats I have: Weapon Focus (Dagger) Point Blank Shot TWF Precise shot Far Shot Not sure what comes at 6th level I am only starting at level 6, but later on improved and greater twf will come. Master thrower tricks that work for this greatly are palm throw, and later weak spot. The feint abilities of invisible blade will be good too. If you do it like this, you can get twelve attacks in a turn! Lets say you make it to level 15 (Invisible blade 5, MT 5). You get 3 normal attacks, 6 with all the twf, your bab is 14/9/4, and palm throw gives you 2 throws in one. Weak spot lets you do ranged touch attacks, so all of them are sneaks. That is 12d4 +12x5d6. I hope I am right about this, if not please tell me, also, does it seem abusive, or overpowered? I think not with the variety of creaters a 15th level char could face that could be immune to sneak attacks or have dr.
CaoSlayer 08-07-06, 06:31 PM	Rogue or ninja 20. Two weapon fighting family and rapid shot. Use improved invisibility and flasks of acid or alchemist fire. With this combo you can perfectly make about 6 attacks a rounds and the best thing it is that you only need a 10 to hit, so if you are something like a halfling that gets a +3 to hit with flasks you can be the god of sneak attack.
CryoSilver 08-07-06, 07:43 PM	No disrespect, but what the hell good is a combo that involves being lvl 20, Cao? You can trigger an Improved Invis effect pretty easily as a rogue with UMD from a wand; the DC is set at 20, so at lvl 5, with SF: UMD, you have 8 ranks, 3 from the feat, and lets say a 16 Cha: +14 to UMD, and you succeed on a 6 or higher.
Crash01234567890 08-08-06, 02:36 AM	was thinking of doing a ranged rogue as a replacement in a quest running now. It will go something like this Human Rogue 3 Fighter 2 Invisible blade 1 Master thrower 1 The levels of the prcs may be intertwined for how I feel as I level. The important things are ofcourse feats and what you take as master thrower. For feats I have: Weapon Focus (Dagger) Point Blank Shot TWF Precise shot Far Shot Not sure what comes at 6th level I am only starting at level 6, but later on improved and greater twf will come. Master thrower tricks that work for this greatly are palm throw, and later weak spot. The feint abilities of invisible blade will be good too. If you do it like this, you can get twelve attacks in a turn! Lets say you make it to level 15 (Invisible blade 5, MT 5). You get 3 normal attacks, 6 with all the twf, your bab is 14/9/4, and palm throw gives you 2 throws in one. Weak spot lets you do ranged touch attacks, so all of them are sneaks. That is 12d4 +12x5d6. I hope I am right about this, if not please tell me, also, does it seem abusive, or overpowered? I think not with the variety of creaters a 15th level char could face that could be immune to sneak attacks or have dr. If you add monk into their and use shruikens you can flurry with them and gain an extra attack but all of them would suffer a -2.
CaoSlayer 08-08-06, 05:12 AM	No disrespect, but what the hell good is a combo that involves being lvl 20, Cao? You can trigger an Improved Invis effect pretty easily as a rogue with UMD from a wand; the DC is set at 20, so at lvl 5, with SF: UMD, you have 8 ranks, 3 from the feat, and lets say a 16 Cha: +14 to UMD, and you succeed on a 6 or higher. na, I just said that to note that you dont need lots of level dips and that a pure rogue or ninja can do it perfectly. Scale de "build" as you want. PD: umm, wands of improved invisibility are awfully expensibles for a level 5 character
kelvinaw273 08-08-06, 06:01 AM	If you do it like this, you can get twelve attacks in a turn! Lets say you make it to level 15 (Invisible blade 5, MT 5). You get 3 normal attacks, 6 with all the twf, your bab is 14/9/4, and palm throw gives you 2 throws in one. Weak spot lets you do ranged touch attacks, so all of them are sneaks. That is 12d4 +12x5d6. I hope I am right about this, if not please tell me, also, does it seem abusive, or overpowered? I think not with the variety of creaters a 15th level char could face that could be immune to sneak attacks or have dr. It certainly looks it! Weak spot lets you do ranged touch attacks, so all of them are sneaks. Where does this come from? Just because they are ranged touch does not make them sneak attacks - sneak attacks come about when your opponant cannot defend properly against your attack . Being a 'ranged rogue' you have the problem that one of the two major factors for sneak attacking - flanking - is unavailable to you. You therefore have to catch the enemy flat-footed in order to sneak-attack. So far as I know, Weak Spot does not make a foe flat-footed. Yes, you found a weak spot in the armour - common sense says that the weak spot will not be over a vital spot, though. Any armourer making armour like that would rapidly be out of customers and business. No offence, but this looks like another: "I want my UBER-ROGUE to sneak attack with every attack anybody he fights" ideas. The problem is that yes, you can land the first sneak attack, and maybe the second, but by this point any foe free to move will be dodging, weaving and facing the source of the attack, so no more sneak-attacks while he creams you. Sneak attack is designed for you to get in one good, telling blow, after which you get out fast. That's how it works. If you want to dish damage on this kind of scale regularly and up front, take a fighter or a wizard. Otherwise, you are left with 12x1d4 damage, maybe with a sneak on the first one or two. Respectable, but a similar level monk with palm throw and the TWF combos could churn out up to 20x1d2 in shurikens. As shurikens are ammo they are cheaper to enchant, so imagine 20 flaming shurikens and [I]no need to get the drop on an opponant.
MarkB 08-08-06, 07:14 AM	There's a nice spell in the Spell Compendium called distract assailant. It's a swift action to cast, and makes an opponent flat-footed until his next action. Persuade the party wizard or sorcerer to take it, then make sure you delay until just after their action when they cast it.
James18 08-08-06, 08:50 AM	SOOO just to remember you question. You want to make better use of your RANGED rouge not switch to melee. Okay Idea's already said Invis and Grease. Anytime they are climbing and balancing go for it. Invis wand sounds like a good thing to buy. Also get the aid of your party. Fighters can trip Monks can stun. Race? If you can see in the dark and they can't SA city. Vision is the only other thing I can think of. Spells that cause natural darkness or Items that let you see through magical darkness are nice. On your own invis and init are the only ways to SA. Inlist your party get them to open the door. Trip "Rouge fire". Tap tap tap yeah the 150 hp monster dead in three hits. Human sized tip large sized blind :) or grease...... I really love the grease idea Yeah wand of grease.....hahahaha
Asperazin 08-08-06, 10:06 AM	Hey sorry about the misunderstanding. I was under the impression touch also allowed sneak attack.. I haven't' ever played a rogue becuase of the horrible ways a fellow player played one, so I didn't look at the description too well. Well, aside from that, if you actually get yourself up to that high a level, greater invisibility is cheaper, and more of an option.
kelvinaw273 08-08-06, 12:55 PM	Very true. As most Rogues have a decent intelligence, multi-classing as a wizard isn't a bad option for them either. Use Magic Device can let you make use of scrolls even if you don't find a ring.
Zherog 08-08-06, 05:24 PM	If you are willing to use a diffrent weapon rather than bow there is akiller combo for melee and thrown SA. If you take improved crit and telling blow then anytime you roll 15-20 then you are making a sneak attack. There are also a few other feats that will allow you to improve your crit even further and then allowing you to SA more often. First, your range only works if you select a weapon that has 18-20 as it's starting range (a rapier, for example). Second, your statement isn't entirely correct. It's true that with the Telling Blow feat any threatened critical becomes a sneak attack*; however, for the 15-19 to threaten as a critical, the attack must hit your opponent's AC. For example, if you need to roll a 17 or better just to hit your opponent, rolling a 15 doesn't do you any good. Sure it would've been a sneak attack if it hit - but it didn't hit. * At least, I'm pretty sure that's how Telling Blow works. It might require the critical threat be confirmed - in which case it's even more dangerous to rely on this method, because even though your initial roll may threaten, you still need to confirm.
Synthetic_Genius 08-08-06, 06:27 PM	If you're a halfling, you can take the Whisperknife prestige class and eventually get Ranged Flanking, although the earliest you could get it is that level 14. It only works when you're within 10 feet of your target but it would allow you to get alot of sneak attacks in.
Dunelord 08-09-06, 05:42 AM	Don't know why I didn't think of this sooner, but you need Quick Draw so you can get a full attack off the first round every round.