How to Handle a Self-Centered Player? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How to Handle a Self-Centered Player? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Anarcane
06-13-07, 07:30 PM First off, let me apologize if this duplicates an already-existing thread.

I'm a relatively new addition to an established gaming group. For the most part, the group is good, but one of the other players in particular bugs the hell out of me for what he does in and out of game. I'm looking for some advice on how to deal with him. Just getting rid of him is not an option (since he's more established than I in the group and is related to one of the other players), so I need some advice on how to get along or how to gently nudge his behavior.

Here is what he does in particular:

1) OOC, he constantly tells other players how they should and should not role-play their characters, and his own character reacts negatively to the others if they (the characters) do not follow his (the player's) directions. He has this idea for how we all should view and interact with the world, and he gets really petulant if we disagree or fail to follow his lead. Meanwhile, his character does not think twice about ditching the party and doing something different if he disagrees with the party's consensus.

2) He meta-games constantly, interrupting other players during their turns in combat to tell them what they should do and how they should behave strategically in order to maximize the effectiveness of his own character.

3) He is a rules lawyer, interrupting both the DM and other players to point out really detailed interpretations of the rules. This is usually done to argue that another player's character cannot do something he or she has proposed to do. In the meantime, we have caught him selectively ignoring certain other rules when doing so works to his own favor.

4) He has a very particular way in which he likes to distribute treasure, and he gets reaaaaaly irritated if the other players disagree with his method. It should probably go without saying that his preferred method usually ends up giving him a disproportionately large share of valuable loot. For instance: After seven levels of adventuring, his character had equipment worth two or three times the starting wealth for a seventh-level character, while others still only had base starting wealth for a sixth- or seventh-level character. His argument seems to be that anyone who can best make use of an item should automatically get it before it goes into the pot to divide up among the party. Of course, he usually has a reason why he can "best" make use of the item, and -- because he plays a highly munchkined, multi-classed character, he can make use of a lot of different items.

I apologize for sounding like such sour grapes. His playing has made the games increasingly unpleasant for me lately, and I'm really hoping that I can avoid dropping out.

Any thoughts are appreciated.
VerdugoExplode
06-13-07, 07:46 PM I would start by asking if the other players feel the same way about this person. Point out the he is hoarding treasure from them and trying to play their characters instead of letting them enjoy themselves. If they feel the same way then it shouldn't be a problem to bring them together and talk to the DM in a calm and civilised manner, pointing out the various transgressions this player has commited against the rest of the group. Explain that D&D is a group game and if one person is ruining it for the rest of the group there's really no point in playing whatsoever. The DM should then begin to address the player's behavior, ask him to stop trying to control other player's actions. If you catch him trying to cheat, call him out on it, he deserves it.

At this point, from your character's perspective, regardless of alignment you know this person is taking more than his share so it wouldn't be out of place to bring it up the next time you find a hoard of treasure. If he argues that because he's the most optimized person ask him why the rest of the party is still around given his amazing skill. If he continues on this path convince the rest of the party to ditch him while he's asleep and go on more entertaining adventures while he goes and conquers the world or whatever.

Communication is the most important thing in this situation, unite the other players behind you and gain some bargaining power to change either the player's behavior or the DM's currently apathetic stance on his selfishness.

If all of these fail gird yourself for an alignment shift and coup de grace him in his sleep and blame some bandits, make sure you bloody yourself up a bit first and maybe dispose of some valuables as they were 'taken'.
mathogre
06-13-07, 08:07 PM Anarcane,

I played in a group with someone like that. The description is frighteningly similar. Problem is that you're the group noob, he's blood, and he can spin you around the rules until you're dizzy.

I see two options.

1. Buck up and accept how things are. You can push back on some things, but he's the Alpha Steve and those in the group accept him. He's not going to change. He'll bring a perspective to the game that others won't, and he may even improve play overall, annoyances notwithstanding. I could imagine worse groups.

2. Find another group. It's not much fun playing with a Steve, and you may come to dread gaming sessions. That's no fun. As long as the group is tolerable and you're having fun, try to learn how to deal with a person such as him. At the same time, look around for another group. When you've found a good one, walk away and don't turn back.

Just one person's input...
windscar18
06-13-07, 08:14 PM Well, if he's ditching the group, he shouldn't get part of the treasure, should he?

If he's metagaming or acting like a bastard, then he should suffer roleplaying consequences. For example, if he says like "The Hydra is obviously pyro or cyro" to an NPC with no prior research, the NPC is going to be like "Prove it." If he wants everyone to follow him, NPCs who witness this action (especially Chaotic ones) should feel appropriately annoyed and their attitudes should worsen.

Unfortunately, you're not the DM and you're new to the group. But you should talk with your DM about this issue. During games, point out the problems with bossing everyone around. And ask your DM about roleplaying bonus XP, of which, he'll probably get very little of. Yes, you're antagonizing the player. But, in the end, he was asking for a fight in the first place.
morbid_freak
06-13-07, 09:01 PM Annoy him away!

1) The one thing that pisses me off most in RPing is people telling me how to play my character. I don't mind a few suggestions here and there or the party leader asking my PC to do something, but telling me how to RP is out of line and dangerously unhealthy.

2) My group really doesn't mind a little bit of meta-gaming during combat about strategy. Point out his metagaming and make him look bad, muhaha.

3) Rules lawyers can go to hell. The greatest feature of D&D is that everything in the books are only guidelines. I've never seen a player that interrupts the DM last long in a group. Unless the player has some leverage over the DM...

4) Relieve him of his possessions while his PC is sleeping (Sabotage also works). Pass a note or whisper to the DM that you are doing this to prevent metagaming.

If you do drop out, take as many of the good players with you! :plotting:
BroadStreetBully
06-13-07, 09:07 PM We kicked a guy like that out of our group about this time last summer (and we have had SO much more fun ever since!)

First of all, don't think that you're alone in your opinion of this guy. Second of all, you are in a unique position to help the group out. Because you are new to the group, things that you point out to the DM and to other players about this guy might confirm what they've been thinking about him for a while. If you ask the other people in the group away from "Alpha Steve", you could also avoid a nasty and possibly unneccessary confrontation.

It may just take the other people, with a unified front, to sit down and list their complaints to "Alpha Steve" and ask him what he thinks of the situation. After you've given him the opportunity to look over and address the issues himself, he may act more maturely at the gaming table. On the other hand, he might not change or even get worse; in that case, it's time for your group to show another unified front and kick him out ("uninvite" him to future gaming sessions is a better way to put it, and might salvage some hurt feelings).

As i mentioned before, our group had an "Alpha Steve" for a while as well. We'd been calling him out on rules, such as "how did you get that attack bonus?" and "explain again how your AC is that high?" for quite some time. But it got to a point when it was just too much.

What really pinned it for me, is not only had we been putting up with this "Alpha Steve" for years, but one of the guys in our group of 8 was considering leaving because of him. Our group's been around for 19+ years, and I've been a regular player with them for about 4 years. Needless to say, we're all pretty good friends (except "Alpha Steve"). After learning that my pal was going to leave because of this jerk, I brought it up to the other players away from "Steve". Everyone else agreed that if it had to be a toss-up between an actual friend or Jerktackular, "Steve" was out. So we gave him a unified front, we had the person who "Steve" took the most seriously call him up and explain the situation. "Steve" whined and complained about it, but that was that. No more "Steve".
Budah02
06-13-07, 11:39 PM Well I know what your feeling man. I have a situation kinda like this. So far we have just been putting up with it. But in my case he's more noobish than I. Our group has been together for a year and a half now, and he's been with us about 9 months I'd say. In your sitch, i'd definitely play the field with the rest of the group when he's not around and see if your concerns/thoughts are the same. A united front trumps all.

If all of these fail gird yourself for an alignment shift and coup de grace him in his sleep and blame some bandits, make sure you bloody yourself up a bit first and maybe dispose of some valuables as they were 'taken'.
Too bad I'm a LG Monk, I'd lose too much to do this.

If you do drop out, take as many of the good players with you! :plotting:
This has been what I've been thinking of doing. Now I got to find a locale to play at.
Pyro_Azer
06-14-07, 04:04 PM First off, let me apologize if this duplicates an already-existing thread.

I'm a relatively new addition to an established gaming group. For the most part, the group is good, but one of the other players in particular bugs the hell out of me for what he does in and out of game. I'm looking for some advice on how to deal with him. Just getting rid of him is not an option (since he's more established than I in the group and is related to one of the other players), so I need some advice on how to get along or how to gently nudge his behavior.

OK

Here is what he does in particular:

1) OOC, he constantly tells other players how they should and should not role-play their characters, and his own character reacts negatively to the others if they (the characters) do not follow his (the player's) directions. He has this idea for how we all should view and interact with the world, and he gets really petulant if we disagree or fail to follow his lead. Meanwhile, his character does not think twice about ditching the party and doing something different if he disagrees with the party's consensus.

2) He meta-games constantly, interrupting other players during their turns in combat to tell them what they should do and how they should behave strategically in order to maximize the effectiveness of his own character.

3) He is a rules lawyer, interrupting both the DM and other players to point out really detailed interpretations of the rules. This is usually done to argue that another player's character cannot do something he or she has proposed to do. In the meantime, we have caught him selectively ignoring certain other rules when doing so works to his own favor.

4) He has a very particular way in which he likes to distribute treasure, and he gets reaaaaaly irritated if the other players disagree with his method. It should probably go without saying that his preferred method usually ends up giving him a disproportionately large share of valuable loot. For instance: After seven levels of adventuring, his character had equipment worth two or three times the starting wealth for a seventh-level character, while others still only had base starting wealth for a sixth- or seventh-level character. His argument seems to be that anyone who can best make use of an item should automatically get it before it goes into the pot to divide up among the party. Of course, he usually has a reason why he can "best" make use of the item, and -- because he plays a highly munchkined, multi-classed character, he can make use of a lot of different items.

I apologize for sounding like such sour grapes. His playing has made the games increasingly unpleasant for me lately, and I'm really hoping that I can avoid dropping out.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

First I am going to assume the DM is reasonably fed up with this person as well.

1 If the player is directing other people how to roleplay and trying to conrol their charecters then have the DM roleplay his charecter for a set amount fo time. He probably won't be as bossy after this especially if the DM makes him act as if he had a wisdom of 2.

2 Ask the DM to have the monsters metagame and attack him if he is the most powerful.

3 500xp penalty for interruptions.

4 Cursed items
wizarddog
06-16-07, 07:42 PM OMG!

We are all talking about the same Guy!;)

Maybe he should DM. Then he can be the rule munckin, power gaming, meta game monster in control. :P
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer
06-16-07, 08:25 PM OMG!

We are all talking about the same Guy!;)

Maybe he should DM. Then he can be the rule munckin, power gaming, meta game monster in control. :P

Shall I save you a thread here for, say a months time to complain about his DMPC if you do that? do you think we'll also need a 'my players suck' reservation at the DM boards for him in that case? I try to help these snafus blow over.

More seriously, life is to short to game with pond life, start a new group ask members if any one has an available living room and dich him. badbingbadaboomyourdone.
bob_the_great
06-17-07, 01:09 AM Talk to the DM if you don't feel comfortable talking to "Steve." He may be well aware of the issues. He may be oblivious to them. He may be willing to do something, and he may not. You don't know until you talk to him.

The next time he tells you what to do or how to act politely tell him that you don't need his help playing your character. For a couple sessions nicely remind him whenever he does it. After that flatly tell him "you play your character, I'll play mine." He has no right to control your gameplay and it is downright rude, and there is no reason to stand for it.

As for treasure distribution, there's no harm in politely objecting. Get the input of the entire party. Maybe even vote on how to distribute treasure. If the rest of the party is fine with the way it is then you probably just have to deal.

Rules lawyering and metagaming aren't really your issues. You can tell the DM it annoys you, but that falls on the DM to do something about.

Oh, and the next time he ditches the party try to go on without him. In my old group we started a new game so our regular DM could play and he was fond of operating outside of the group, so eventually I decided to move on without him and was pleasantly surprised when the rest of the group followed me (and I was somewhat new to the group). You might find that everyone is just waiting for someone else to act, and when leaving the group leads to him sitting quietly for an hour because "you aren't there" it should become apparent that working within the group is the way to go.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Anarcane 06-13-07, 07:30 PM	First off, let me apologize if this duplicates an already-existing thread. I'm a relatively new addition to an established gaming group. For the most part, the group is good, but one of the other players in particular bugs the hell out of me for what he does in and out of game. I'm looking for some advice on how to deal with him. Just getting rid of him is not an option (since he's more established than I in the group and is related to one of the other players), so I need some advice on how to get along or how to gently nudge his behavior. Here is what he does in particular: 1) OOC, he constantly tells other players how they should and should not role-play their characters, and his own character reacts negatively to the others if they (the characters) do not follow his (the player's) directions. He has this idea for how we all should view and interact with the world, and he gets really petulant if we disagree or fail to follow his lead. Meanwhile, his character does not think twice about ditching the party and doing something different if he disagrees with the party's consensus. 2) He meta-games constantly, interrupting other players during their turns in combat to tell them what they should do and how they should behave strategically in order to maximize the effectiveness of his own character. 3) He is a rules lawyer, interrupting both the DM and other players to point out really detailed interpretations of the rules. This is usually done to argue that another player's character cannot do something he or she has proposed to do. In the meantime, we have caught him selectively ignoring certain other rules when doing so works to his own favor. 4) He has a very particular way in which he likes to distribute treasure, and he gets reaaaaaly irritated if the other players disagree with his method. It should probably go without saying that his preferred method usually ends up giving him a disproportionately large share of valuable loot. For instance: After seven levels of adventuring, his character had equipment worth two or three times the starting wealth for a seventh-level character, while others still only had base starting wealth for a sixth- or seventh-level character. His argument seems to be that anyone who can best make use of an item should automatically get it before it goes into the pot to divide up among the party. Of course, he usually has a reason why he can "best" make use of the item, and -- because he plays a highly munchkined, multi-classed character, he can make use of a lot of different items. I apologize for sounding like such sour grapes. His playing has made the games increasingly unpleasant for me lately, and I'm really hoping that I can avoid dropping out. Any thoughts are appreciated.
VerdugoExplode 06-13-07, 07:46 PM	I would start by asking if the other players feel the same way about this person. Point out the he is hoarding treasure from them and trying to play their characters instead of letting them enjoy themselves. If they feel the same way then it shouldn't be a problem to bring them together and talk to the DM in a calm and civilised manner, pointing out the various transgressions this player has commited against the rest of the group. Explain that D&D is a group game and if one person is ruining it for the rest of the group there's really no point in playing whatsoever. The DM should then begin to address the player's behavior, ask him to stop trying to control other player's actions. If you catch him trying to cheat, call him out on it, he deserves it. At this point, from your character's perspective, regardless of alignment you know this person is taking more than his share so it wouldn't be out of place to bring it up the next time you find a hoard of treasure. If he argues that because he's the most optimized person ask him why the rest of the party is still around given his amazing skill. If he continues on this path convince the rest of the party to ditch him while he's asleep and go on more entertaining adventures while he goes and conquers the world or whatever. Communication is the most important thing in this situation, unite the other players behind you and gain some bargaining power to change either the player's behavior or the DM's currently apathetic stance on his selfishness. If all of these fail gird yourself for an alignment shift and coup de grace him in his sleep and blame some bandits, make sure you bloody yourself up a bit first and maybe dispose of some valuables as they were 'taken'.
mathogre 06-13-07, 08:07 PM	Anarcane, I played in a group with someone like that. The description is frighteningly similar. Problem is that you're the group noob, he's blood, and he can spin you around the rules until you're dizzy. I see two options. 1. Buck up and accept how things are. You can push back on some things, but he's the Alpha Steve and those in the group accept him. He's not going to change. He'll bring a perspective to the game that others won't, and he may even improve play overall, annoyances notwithstanding. I could imagine worse groups. 2. Find another group. It's not much fun playing with a Steve, and you may come to dread gaming sessions. That's no fun. As long as the group is tolerable and you're having fun, try to learn how to deal with a person such as him. At the same time, look around for another group. When you've found a good one, walk away and don't turn back. Just one person's input...
windscar18 06-13-07, 08:14 PM	Well, if he's ditching the group, he shouldn't get part of the treasure, should he? If he's metagaming or acting like a bastard, then he should suffer roleplaying consequences. For example, if he says like "The Hydra is obviously pyro or cyro" to an NPC with no prior research, the NPC is going to be like "Prove it." If he wants everyone to follow him, NPCs who witness this action (especially Chaotic ones) should feel appropriately annoyed and their attitudes should worsen. Unfortunately, you're not the DM and you're new to the group. But you should talk with your DM about this issue. During games, point out the problems with bossing everyone around. And ask your DM about roleplaying bonus XP, of which, he'll probably get very little of. Yes, you're antagonizing the player. But, in the end, he was asking for a fight in the first place.
morbid_freak 06-13-07, 09:01 PM	Annoy him away! 1) The one thing that pisses me off most in RPing is people telling me how to play my character. I don't mind a few suggestions here and there or the party leader asking my PC to do something, but telling me how to RP is out of line and dangerously unhealthy. 2) My group really doesn't mind a little bit of meta-gaming during combat about strategy. Point out his metagaming and make him look bad, muhaha. 3) Rules lawyers can go to hell. The greatest feature of D&D is that everything in the books are only guidelines. I've never seen a player that interrupts the DM last long in a group. Unless the player has some leverage over the DM... 4) Relieve him of his possessions while his PC is sleeping (Sabotage also works). Pass a note or whisper to the DM that you are doing this to prevent metagaming. If you do drop out, take as many of the good players with you! :plotting:
BroadStreetBully 06-13-07, 09:07 PM	We kicked a guy like that out of our group about this time last summer (and we have had SO much more fun ever since!) First of all, don't think that you're alone in your opinion of this guy. Second of all, you are in a unique position to help the group out. Because you are new to the group, things that you point out to the DM and to other players about this guy might confirm what they've been thinking about him for a while. If you ask the other people in the group away from "Alpha Steve", you could also avoid a nasty and possibly unneccessary confrontation. It may just take the other people, with a unified front, to sit down and list their complaints to "Alpha Steve" and ask him what he thinks of the situation. After you've given him the opportunity to look over and address the issues himself, he may act more maturely at the gaming table. On the other hand, he might not change or even get worse; in that case, it's time for your group to show another unified front and kick him out ("uninvite" him to future gaming sessions is a better way to put it, and might salvage some hurt feelings). As i mentioned before, our group had an "Alpha Steve" for a while as well. We'd been calling him out on rules, such as "how did you get that attack bonus?" and "explain again how your AC is that high?" for quite some time. But it got to a point when it was just too much. What really pinned it for me, is not only had we been putting up with this "Alpha Steve" for years, but one of the guys in our group of 8 was considering leaving because of him. Our group's been around for 19+ years, and I've been a regular player with them for about 4 years. Needless to say, we're all pretty good friends (except "Alpha Steve"). After learning that my pal was going to leave because of this jerk, I brought it up to the other players away from "Steve". Everyone else agreed that if it had to be a toss-up between an actual friend or Jerktackular, "Steve" was out. So we gave him a unified front, we had the person who "Steve" took the most seriously call him up and explain the situation. "Steve" whined and complained about it, but that was that. No more "Steve".
Budah02 06-13-07, 11:39 PM	Well I know what your feeling man. I have a situation kinda like this. So far we have just been putting up with it. But in my case he's more noobish than I. Our group has been together for a year and a half now, and he's been with us about 9 months I'd say. In your sitch, i'd definitely play the field with the rest of the group when he's not around and see if your concerns/thoughts are the same. A united front trumps all. If all of these fail gird yourself for an alignment shift and coup de grace him in his sleep and blame some bandits, make sure you bloody yourself up a bit first and maybe dispose of some valuables as they were 'taken'. Too bad I'm a LG Monk, I'd lose too much to do this. If you do drop out, take as many of the good players with you! :plotting: This has been what I've been thinking of doing. Now I got to find a locale to play at.
Pyro_Azer 06-14-07, 04:04 PM	First off, let me apologize if this duplicates an already-existing thread. I'm a relatively new addition to an established gaming group. For the most part, the group is good, but one of the other players in particular bugs the hell out of me for what he does in and out of game. I'm looking for some advice on how to deal with him. Just getting rid of him is not an option (since he's more established than I in the group and is related to one of the other players), so I need some advice on how to get along or how to gently nudge his behavior. OK Here is what he does in particular: 1) OOC, he constantly tells other players how they should and should not role-play their characters, and his own character reacts negatively to the others if they (the characters) do not follow his (the player's) directions. He has this idea for how we all should view and interact with the world, and he gets really petulant if we disagree or fail to follow his lead. Meanwhile, his character does not think twice about ditching the party and doing something different if he disagrees with the party's consensus. 2) He meta-games constantly, interrupting other players during their turns in combat to tell them what they should do and how they should behave strategically in order to maximize the effectiveness of his own character. 3) He is a rules lawyer, interrupting both the DM and other players to point out really detailed interpretations of the rules. This is usually done to argue that another player's character cannot do something he or she has proposed to do. In the meantime, we have caught him selectively ignoring certain other rules when doing so works to his own favor. 4) He has a very particular way in which he likes to distribute treasure, and he gets reaaaaaly irritated if the other players disagree with his method. It should probably go without saying that his preferred method usually ends up giving him a disproportionately large share of valuable loot. For instance: After seven levels of adventuring, his character had equipment worth two or three times the starting wealth for a seventh-level character, while others still only had base starting wealth for a sixth- or seventh-level character. His argument seems to be that anyone who can best make use of an item should automatically get it before it goes into the pot to divide up among the party. Of course, he usually has a reason why he can "best" make use of the item, and -- because he plays a highly munchkined, multi-classed character, he can make use of a lot of different items. I apologize for sounding like such sour grapes. His playing has made the games increasingly unpleasant for me lately, and I'm really hoping that I can avoid dropping out. Any thoughts are appreciated. First I am going to assume the DM is reasonably fed up with this person as well. 1 If the player is directing other people how to roleplay and trying to conrol their charecters then have the DM roleplay his charecter for a set amount fo time. He probably won't be as bossy after this especially if the DM makes him act as if he had a wisdom of 2. 2 Ask the DM to have the monsters metagame and attack him if he is the most powerful. 3 500xp penalty for interruptions. 4 Cursed items
wizarddog 06-16-07, 07:42 PM	OMG! We are all talking about the same Guy!;) Maybe he should DM. Then he can be the rule munckin, power gaming, meta game monster in control. :P
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer 06-16-07, 08:25 PM	OMG! We are all talking about the same Guy!;) Maybe he should DM. Then he can be the rule munckin, power gaming, meta game monster in control. :P Shall I save you a thread here for, say a months time to complain about his DMPC if you do that? do you think we'll also need a 'my players suck' reservation at the DM boards for him in that case? I try to help these snafus blow over. More seriously, life is to short to game with pond life, start a new group ask members if any one has an available living room and dich him. badbingbadaboomyourdone.
bob_the_great 06-17-07, 01:09 AM	Talk to the DM if you don't feel comfortable talking to "Steve." He may be well aware of the issues. He may be oblivious to them. He may be willing to do something, and he may not. You don't know until you talk to him. The next time he tells you what to do or how to act politely tell him that you don't need his help playing your character. For a couple sessions nicely remind him whenever he does it. After that flatly tell him "you play your character, I'll play mine." He has no right to control your gameplay and it is downright rude, and there is no reason to stand for it. As for treasure distribution, there's no harm in politely objecting. Get the input of the entire party. Maybe even vote on how to distribute treasure. If the rest of the party is fine with the way it is then you probably just have to deal. Rules lawyering and metagaming aren't really your issues. You can tell the DM it annoys you, but that falls on the DM to do something about. Oh, and the next time he ditches the party try to go on without him. In my old group we started a new game so our regular DM could play and he was fond of operating outside of the group, so eventually I decided to move on without him and was pleasantly surprised when the rest of the group followed me (and I was somewhat new to the group). You might find that everyone is just waiting for someone else to act, and when leaving the group leads to him sitting quietly for an hour because "you aren't there" it should become apparent that working within the group is the way to go.