How to help a fighter feel needed? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How to help a fighter feel needed? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Levism84
02-13-04, 12:23 PM In my group there is a person playing a fighter (actually many specialized classes but i cant name them), and one of his duties is to protect my character in battle because my character is very very weak. Right now, our group is on a boat and the only time he gets to see any action is when we board another ship (very swashbucklerish) and start smashing heads. But we have a whole lot of down time and because of his characters constant need to be in battle and fight, he poured all of his skills and feats into combat oriented.

His character has, in essence, no life outside of combat. He can train people, no doubt, but we are on an iron clad with a bunch of cannon firing dwarfs, engineering gnomes, and a drow captian that gives the party the creeps.

What can my character do, as a wizard and underling to the mighty warrior, that could help him feel more needed?
tarkin
02-13-04, 01:02 PM Pick fights :fight!: with the sailors and come running to the fighter for help. :smirk: :devil:
Salla
02-13-04, 01:12 PM Eesh. Sounds like this guy needs a hobby, or at least a personality. No character should be so completely revolved around combat that he has nothing else to do at any other time. Even if he doesn't take noncombat skills (like, say, Craft: Artist for painting portraits or something), he should have interests besides bashing heads.

Having had a player walk in, sit down, wait ten minutes, then say "I'm gonna go check my E-Mail, call me when the fight starts," because he built a fighter with no personality ... well, let's just say that the DM and the rest of the players went out of their way to not have any fights that game. And, oh look, you weren't in the room when XP was awarded. Poor baby.

He should be plotting and planning, coming up with plans of attacks and defenses, trying to anticipate what could go wrong and what to do about it. Fighters aren't necessarily just 'grunts' or foot soldiers; if you've been in a lot of fights, you learn to plan ahead for such things. Heck, he could just pick up some Profession: Sailor and help out around the ship if nothing else.
Tony Vargas
02-13-04, 03:46 PM Downtime is an oportunity for RP, too, not just doing practical things. I mean, if he's heavily focused on combat, then his downtime is probably spent debating the merits of armor spikes vs shield spike with interested parties, maintaining his gear, and keeping in shape (that last one can easily eat up hours every day). That doesn't make the character's downtime RP-less compared to the Wiz who scribes spells and makes items durring downtime - the Wiz is being just as obsessively focused on magic.

What's everyone else doing - if it's using craft skills and item creation feats and whatnot, it should be covered quickly, and the fighter shouldn't be missing out on much. If it's RPing he can participate regardles of his skill set.
Marvin
02-13-04, 04:19 PM One of my more combative characters likes sparring with anyone who'll raise a sword to him. Since he's a halfling and his usual partner is an endlessly patient stone giant, this has seen him knocked head over furry feet more than once... :D

but the party is always entertained and the character has an excellent excuse to practice whatever feat I'm planning on giving him next in a relatively safe environment.

See if someone can craft him wooden (subdual-dealing) weapons and get him to spar with two or three sailors at once.

As a wizard, you could load up on summon monsters and punctuate the downtime with a few duels (I'm sure the sailors would be most appreciative, and there might even be a few bets on the side).

Or let him do some strength-related things on board ship (turning the capstan single-handed, that sorta thing).

If he really has that little of a personality that even turning a wheel is too much like RP, then, well, send him off to check his email.
Malben
02-13-04, 04:40 PM Sounds like the fighter in question has made a stupid decision about what sort of character he wants to play. Show him this, a quotation from Victor Harris's introduction to A Book of Five Rings, the strategist's handbook written by Miyamoto Musashi, one of the most famous of the samurai of late feudal Japan:

Musashi wrote "When you have attained the Way of strategy there will be not one thing that you cannot understand" and "You will see the Way in everything". He did, in fact, become a master of arts and crafts. He produced masterpieces of ink painting, probably more highly valued by the Japanese than the ink paintings of any other. His works include cormorants, herons, Hotei the Shinto God, dragons, birds with flowers, bird in a dead tree, Daruma (Bodhidharma), and others. He was a fine calligrapher, evidenced by his piece "Senki" (Warspirit). There is a small wood sculpture of the Buddhist diety Fudo Myoo in private hands. A sculpture of Kwannon was lost recently. He made works in metal, and founded the school of sword guard makers who signed "Niten", after him (see below). He is said to have written poems and songs, but none of these survive. It is said also that he was commissioned by the Shogun Iemitsu to paint the sunrise over Edo castle.

His paintings are sometimes impressed with his seal, "Musashi", or his nom de plume "Niten". Niten means "Two Heavens", said by some to allude to his fighting attitude with a sword in each haand held above his head. In some places he established schools known as "Niten ryu", and in other places called it "Enmei ryu" (clear circle).

He wrote "Study the Ways of all professions". It is evident that he did just that. He sought out not only great swordsmen but also priests, strategists, artists and craftsmen, eager to broaden his knowledge.

Musashi writes about the various aspects of Kendo in such a way that it is possible for the beginner to study at beginner's level, and for Kendo masters to study the same words on a higher level. This applies not just to military strategy, but to any situation where plans and tactics are used. Japanese businessmen have used Go Rin No Sho as a guide for business practice, making sales campaigns like military operations, using the same energetic methods. In the same way that Musashi seems to have been a horribly cruel man, yet was following logically an honest ideal, so successful business sems to most people to be without conscience.

I offer this quotation from Harris's introduction to suggest that there are plenty of ways to construe martial perfection as compatible with or even as the direct result of interest in things other than fighting.

In Character, your wizard might help encourage this sort of paradigm shift by commenting that he'd like to examine the fighter's magic weapons and armor, "to gain a better command of the art of wizardry."

Similarly, you might have your wizard comment that his involvement in the more violent uses of magic have given him insight into the greater theory as a whole, and perhaps even ask the fighter directly, "Have you ever had that experience as a warrior? The feeling that something apparently unrelated to what you were practicing at the time was helping you learn more about something else?"

Possibly it might help for you to try something like this. I'm not too optimistic about it, though. Honestly, it's been my experience that when people build a character like this, they tend to be unwilling to make the character dynamic and have him or her undergo changes in personality or ideology.
Levism84
02-13-04, 09:59 PM I think this persons character bares some explaining. His character is the longest lived character in the DM's crazy little world. He has survived all precious PC's that have come. He started with the current group about two years ago, i have only been there about 6 months, so I am considered relatively new.

His character, Cobord, is the highest level character in our party and is kicka$$ when it comes to combat and diplomacy. He smooths things over with kings when we "happen" to "liberate" a giant cursed chair made of pure gold, and when we "happen" to find outselves hundreds of miles deep in enemy territory as "merchants" pettling gunpowder, weapons, and silencing death to any scout party that tries anything funny with us.

In the last game we got sent out to sea and are trying to destroy as many ships as we can that belong to this seagoing country of evil doom, but unfortunately, we have no dealings to make with them and the only combat we do is either with the ironclad or when we board the ship.

Other than that we spend weeks sailing around and trying to find ships to sink. Needless to say, a bit of downtime between encounters.

As a "wizard" of sorts, I spend my time fixing the boat, inventing things that go BOOM with my gnome pals, and try to figure out a quicker way to down the enemy ships.

As a "fighter" of sorts with high diplomecy skills, Cobold shines his armor and takes nice long walks around the boat.

He is basically our leader and he has done a wonderful job doing so. I just wish that there was a way i could help, being as he has choosen me to be his defendy in combat (which I have no problems with).

I like the idea of having little matches on the ship between him and some of the other characters, and I am actually trying to find a way to go undercover on one of the ships (think greater invisability, fly, maybe some knock spells, and plant a little surprise for them...) and if I get into any trouble i would sure like to have him there with me. And if things got too out of hand I could always do the little teleport thing.

Other than that, there isnt much I can do, i just wanted some ways i could give him options without actually "helping," er... you know.

Thanks for the thoughts and keep them comming.
cultjake
02-14-04, 01:47 AM Hand him some oars. :)
Tony Vargas
02-17-04, 07:59 PM Sounds like it's 'bout time the rest of you got to have some fun, anyway.
Rogue_Jedi_99
02-17-04, 09:06 PM Make an NPC who is the annoying little brother/idol type. Have him be interested in this fighter almost obseesivly. That can be his role playing part. Hell maybe he forge a good friendship with his fan. Either that or he'll kill him which means to me he likely didn't want to Role Play anyway.
Harmor
02-17-04, 09:45 PM He's a fighter...he has a good BAB and probably a medium to low dex...so give him a bow and arrows and let him fly!!!

My favorite weapon for a fighter type character is a sling...it may only do 1d4 but it adds your strength damage.

Don't forget Strength bows if you have the money. Great range but expensive.

Maybe have him man a ballista? Or a catapult on the ship? Remember ships had siege equipment on their ships. I'm sure he'll get a hoot when he spears an enemy for 3d8 points of damage.

Have him throw alchemist fire at the enemy sails, even if its a long way...or shoot fire arrows.

Have him in charge of putting out fires or maybe if he is inclined/skilled to make tactical decisions as a battlefield commander.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Levism84 02-13-04, 12:23 PM	In my group there is a person playing a fighter (actually many specialized classes but i cant name them), and one of his duties is to protect my character in battle because my character is very very weak. Right now, our group is on a boat and the only time he gets to see any action is when we board another ship (very swashbucklerish) and start smashing heads. But we have a whole lot of down time and because of his characters constant need to be in battle and fight, he poured all of his skills and feats into combat oriented. His character has, in essence, no life outside of combat. He can train people, no doubt, but we are on an iron clad with a bunch of cannon firing dwarfs, engineering gnomes, and a drow captian that gives the party the creeps. What can my character do, as a wizard and underling to the mighty warrior, that could help him feel more needed?
tarkin 02-13-04, 01:02 PM	Pick fights :fight!: with the sailors and come running to the fighter for help. :smirk: :devil:
Salla 02-13-04, 01:12 PM	Eesh. Sounds like this guy needs a hobby, or at least a personality. No character should be so completely revolved around combat that he has nothing else to do at any other time. Even if he doesn't take noncombat skills (like, say, Craft: Artist for painting portraits or something), he should have interests besides bashing heads. Having had a player walk in, sit down, wait ten minutes, then say "I'm gonna go check my E-Mail, call me when the fight starts," because he built a fighter with no personality ... well, let's just say that the DM and the rest of the players went out of their way to not have any fights that game. And, oh look, you weren't in the room when XP was awarded. Poor baby. He should be plotting and planning, coming up with plans of attacks and defenses, trying to anticipate what could go wrong and what to do about it. Fighters aren't necessarily just 'grunts' or foot soldiers; if you've been in a lot of fights, you learn to plan ahead for such things. Heck, he could just pick up some Profession: Sailor and help out around the ship if nothing else.
Tony Vargas 02-13-04, 03:46 PM	Downtime is an oportunity for RP, too, not just doing practical things. I mean, if he's heavily focused on combat, then his downtime is probably spent debating the merits of armor spikes vs shield spike with interested parties, maintaining his gear, and keeping in shape (that last one can easily eat up hours every day). That doesn't make the character's downtime RP-less compared to the Wiz who scribes spells and makes items durring downtime - the Wiz is being just as obsessively focused on magic. What's everyone else doing - if it's using craft skills and item creation feats and whatnot, it should be covered quickly, and the fighter shouldn't be missing out on much. If it's RPing he can participate regardles of his skill set.
Marvin 02-13-04, 04:19 PM	One of my more combative characters likes sparring with anyone who'll raise a sword to him. Since he's a halfling and his usual partner is an endlessly patient stone giant, this has seen him knocked head over furry feet more than once... :D but the party is always entertained and the character has an excellent excuse to practice whatever feat I'm planning on giving him next in a relatively safe environment. See if someone can craft him wooden (subdual-dealing) weapons and get him to spar with two or three sailors at once. As a wizard, you could load up on summon monsters and punctuate the downtime with a few duels (I'm sure the sailors would be most appreciative, and there might even be a few bets on the side). Or let him do some strength-related things on board ship (turning the capstan single-handed, that sorta thing). If he really has that little of a personality that even turning a wheel is too much like RP, then, well, send him off to check his email.
Malben 02-13-04, 04:40 PM	Sounds like the fighter in question has made a stupid decision about what sort of character he wants to play. Show him this, a quotation from Victor Harris's introduction to A Book of Five Rings, the strategist's handbook written by Miyamoto Musashi, one of the most famous of the samurai of late feudal Japan: Musashi wrote "When you have attained the Way of strategy there will be not one thing that you cannot understand" and "You will see the Way in everything". He did, in fact, become a master of arts and crafts. He produced masterpieces of ink painting, probably more highly valued by the Japanese than the ink paintings of any other. His works include cormorants, herons, Hotei the Shinto God, dragons, birds with flowers, bird in a dead tree, Daruma (Bodhidharma), and others. He was a fine calligrapher, evidenced by his piece "Senki" (Warspirit). There is a small wood sculpture of the Buddhist diety Fudo Myoo in private hands. A sculpture of Kwannon was lost recently. He made works in metal, and founded the school of sword guard makers who signed "Niten", after him (see below). He is said to have written poems and songs, but none of these survive. It is said also that he was commissioned by the Shogun Iemitsu to paint the sunrise over Edo castle. His paintings are sometimes impressed with his seal, "Musashi", or his nom de plume "Niten". Niten means "Two Heavens", said by some to allude to his fighting attitude with a sword in each haand held above his head. In some places he established schools known as "Niten ryu", and in other places called it "Enmei ryu" (clear circle). He wrote "Study the Ways of all professions". It is evident that he did just that. He sought out not only great swordsmen but also priests, strategists, artists and craftsmen, eager to broaden his knowledge. Musashi writes about the various aspects of Kendo in such a way that it is possible for the beginner to study at beginner's level, and for Kendo masters to study the same words on a higher level. This applies not just to military strategy, but to any situation where plans and tactics are used. Japanese businessmen have used Go Rin No Sho as a guide for business practice, making sales campaigns like military operations, using the same energetic methods. In the same way that Musashi seems to have been a horribly cruel man, yet was following logically an honest ideal, so successful business sems to most people to be without conscience. I offer this quotation from Harris's introduction to suggest that there are plenty of ways to construe martial perfection as compatible with or even as the direct result of interest in things other than fighting. In Character, your wizard might help encourage this sort of paradigm shift by commenting that he'd like to examine the fighter's magic weapons and armor, "to gain a better command of the art of wizardry." Similarly, you might have your wizard comment that his involvement in the more violent uses of magic have given him insight into the greater theory as a whole, and perhaps even ask the fighter directly, "Have you ever had that experience as a warrior? The feeling that something apparently unrelated to what you were practicing at the time was helping you learn more about something else?" Possibly it might help for you to try something like this. I'm not too optimistic about it, though. Honestly, it's been my experience that when people build a character like this, they tend to be unwilling to make the character dynamic and have him or her undergo changes in personality or ideology.
Levism84 02-13-04, 09:59 PM	I think this persons character bares some explaining. His character is the longest lived character in the DM's crazy little world. He has survived all precious PC's that have come. He started with the current group about two years ago, i have only been there about 6 months, so I am considered relatively new. His character, Cobord, is the highest level character in our party and is kicka$$ when it comes to combat and diplomacy. He smooths things over with kings when we "happen" to "liberate" a giant cursed chair made of pure gold, and when we "happen" to find outselves hundreds of miles deep in enemy territory as "merchants" pettling gunpowder, weapons, and silencing death to any scout party that tries anything funny with us. In the last game we got sent out to sea and are trying to destroy as many ships as we can that belong to this seagoing country of evil doom, but unfortunately, we have no dealings to make with them and the only combat we do is either with the ironclad or when we board the ship. Other than that we spend weeks sailing around and trying to find ships to sink. Needless to say, a bit of downtime between encounters. As a "wizard" of sorts, I spend my time fixing the boat, inventing things that go BOOM with my gnome pals, and try to figure out a quicker way to down the enemy ships. As a "fighter" of sorts with high diplomecy skills, Cobold shines his armor and takes nice long walks around the boat. He is basically our leader and he has done a wonderful job doing so. I just wish that there was a way i could help, being as he has choosen me to be his defendy in combat (which I have no problems with). I like the idea of having little matches on the ship between him and some of the other characters, and I am actually trying to find a way to go undercover on one of the ships (think greater invisability, fly, maybe some knock spells, and plant a little surprise for them...) and if I get into any trouble i would sure like to have him there with me. And if things got too out of hand I could always do the little teleport thing. Other than that, there isnt much I can do, i just wanted some ways i could give him options without actually "helping," er... you know. Thanks for the thoughts and keep them comming.
cultjake 02-14-04, 01:47 AM	Hand him some oars. :)
Tony Vargas 02-17-04, 07:59 PM	Sounds like it's 'bout time the rest of you got to have some fun, anyway.
Rogue_Jedi_99 02-17-04, 09:06 PM	Make an NPC who is the annoying little brother/idol type. Have him be interested in this fighter almost obseesivly. That can be his role playing part. Hell maybe he forge a good friendship with his fan. Either that or he'll kill him which means to me he likely didn't want to Role Play anyway.
Harmor 02-17-04, 09:45 PM	He's a fighter...he has a good BAB and probably a medium to low dex...so give him a bow and arrows and let him fly!!! My favorite weapon for a fighter type character is a sling...it may only do 1d4 but it adds your strength damage. Don't forget Strength bows if you have the money. Great range but expensive. Maybe have him man a ballista? Or a catapult on the ship? Remember ships had siege equipment on their ships. I'm sure he'll get a hoot when he spears an enemy for 3d8 points of damage. Have him throw alchemist fire at the enemy sails, even if its a long way...or shoot fire arrows. Have him in charge of putting out fires or maybe if he is inclined/skilled to make tactical decisions as a battlefield commander.