Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thantrax 07-24-05, 02:06 AM	The life of a low level adventurer is usually pretty simple. Go adventuring, fight the bad guys, kill 'em and take their treasure. Your life gets alot harder though about level 6 or 7... the enemies can keep getting back up. The Raise Dead spell and its later versions of Resurection and True Resurection cause problems. Sometimes you don't care. If a bandit lord comes back you smite him again. But when the person you are killing off is a high ranking noble in your homeland who is corrupt and has a charm spell upon the King, it starts to become a real problem if he comes back... How do you keep this from happening? Defeating an oponent and yet not having them just return? I've only found two solutions, but there must be more! 1) Trap the Soul. Most basic one. Without the soul, there is no return to life.... 2) Baleful Polymorph. We at one point had plans of taking said corrupt high ranking noble and polymorphing him into a tortise, then making the tortise a gift pet to my wife and child. With special instructions of course. Tortises tend to live a while and are mostly harmless. What else can you do? PS) The incident with the noble... while we were procuring the scroll of Baleful Polymorph, the noble managed to die, I can't remember how, but it led to me and one other character at 12th level assaulting a temple of Nerull by ourselves where we knew there was a priest within that could cast True Resurrection. Eeep! No planning, no warning, just suddenly dashing in before he could find out and cast the Resurrection. Little did we know he'd have 6 blackguards that were each level about 11 as bodyguards.... surprisingly we won. Hurrah!
Pryrates 07-24-05, 08:31 AM	Id say either kill whatever cleric is continuously ressurecting this guy or perhaps banish him to another plane, some where particularly nasty, where he'll be sure to die anyway and then his remains will be lost and he wont be able to be brough back.
Lyinginbedmon 07-24-05, 08:36 AM	Knock him out/Kill him outright, drag him to some protected or secret place, and cast imprisonment. Then the only problem is keeping everyone and everything else away from it that could cast freedom Alternatively you could hack him into many pieces and imprison them, but that would increase the odds of one being found. Though a custom spell could be made to ensure that all pieces must be found for the resurrection to work. Of course, disintegrate complete destroys the body, so nothing left to revive
Feriin 07-24-05, 01:12 PM	Knock him out/Kill him outright, drag him to some protected or secret place, and cast imprisonment. Then the only problem is keeping everyone and everything else away from it that could cast freedom Alternatively you could hack him into many pieces and imprison them, but that would increase the odds of one being found. Though a custom spell could be made to ensure that all pieces must be found for the resurrection to work. Of course, disintegrate complete destroys the body, so nothing left to revive TRUE Ressurection, nice try though.
^Graff_EpsilonIX 07-24-05, 01:29 PM	You can cast banish the soul i think, or trap the soul, then polymorph the soulgem into something that can't be broken and cast imprisonment and then sink on it. Then cast as many abjuration wards... on it. Best idea ever. There's always making the enemy undead and scattering it's parts to the winds, then he can't reform, but is still alive. Other than that, nothing else can do much except maybe sticking them in the positive material plane.
Witchblade 07-24-05, 02:11 PM	Kill 'im. Hack 'im to pieces. Stick 'im in your Bag of Holding.
Derren S. 07-24-05, 04:46 PM	Subdue him + Helm of Opposit Alignment
Nightgaunt 07-24-05, 11:15 PM	My favorite low-budget way to end someone’s career is to turn them in to an undead and stick them in a bag of holding... But since that's been done mostly. Another good choice (although your DM may hate you) is to use Flesh to Stone. Remove the head (or whatever passes for a head, you could use a finger too technically but I like the symbolism), disintegrate the body, and then dump the head in a mountain somewhere. Technically until the head is made flesh the character is still alive, but some DM's may rule the character is dead even in stone form...
celtredleg 07-24-05, 11:34 PM	Strip him of his gear, and you raise him yourself. He comes back with one HP and down a level. kill him again, now he is down 2 levels. He probably wont respond to another raise spell. But you have reduced his power by a bunch. Or you could try to trick him with a reincarnate spell. H might lose enough of his memory to get rid of the charm. BTW, did I miss something??? should not the charm spell lapse when he died??? Or am I again remembering something from an old edition. (man it sucks to get old)
Arkidisey 07-24-05, 11:40 PM	Kill 'im. Hack 'im to pieces. Stick 'im in your Bag of Holding. you cant just kill him, as already said TRUE ressurection alows you to rez someone WITHOUT the remains, therefore he's still be alowed to live again, Bind the soul, Trap the soul, and banishment spells are the only true way to go that would stop him for good. That and there is a burn spell that burns the corpse so that stops the remaines, and then use bind the soul and take the gem and create seperate pieces of jewelry with it. rings, nicklaces, braclets, pick one, make enough for your party andthen whoever; whatever whats him revived needs all of you dead amd all of your jewels. It's the only true way to keep him in the.... NEVERMIND! use the viel of souls! (if its alowed) travel to the city og ghostwalk and take his body, throw it in and he's gone for good absolutly no way to get him back, thats the true afterlife! it has a huge entry about it in the ghostwalk book, all about how once you've gone threw, you get killed over time and your soul is trapped for good. for all eternity.
VirgilCaine 07-25-05, 09:08 AM	Cut his head off. Dismember his body. Shove them in a Portable Hole. Or shove the body into a Rope Trick and then shove a bag of holding after it. Or tell your DM about this... http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040216a
fallabel 07-25-05, 09:52 AM	Strip him of his gear, and you raise him yourself. He comes back with one HP and down a level. kill him again, now he is down 2 levels. He probably wont respond to another raise spell. But you have reduced his power by a bunch. Or you could try to trick him with a reincarnate spell. H might lose enough of his memory to get rid of the charm. BTW, did I miss something??? should not the charm spell lapse when he died??? Or am I again remembering something from an old edition. (man it sucks to get old) Not sure whether or not this matters for your character, but that's a VERY evil act...
celtredleg 07-25-05, 10:02 AM	Not sure whether or not this matters for your character, but that's a VERY evil act... Oh yes it is, and I dont even play evil. But I had it done to me, and you remember that sort of thing.
Yruc 07-25-05, 10:20 AM	kill him and then immediately use a wish spell to prevent him from ever being brought back to life.
DarkWarriorKarg 07-25-05, 10:28 AM	We're not talking about nice methods here: - Create Undead with the body - Imprisonment, but anybody who has true resurrection also has Miracle - Trade the soul to an archfiend. - Subdue, then get undead to level/attribute drain. - Planeshift him to the abyss (not permanent, but it'll do) - Have a Slaad use him as a eggsac.
jukar 07-25-05, 11:24 AM	Another option is flesh to ice... then melt him. However, I'm not sure, because once melted, he may be considered dead, and thus be subject to true resurrection. I think that using truly evil methods to dispatch an evil enemy is probably not a good idea, unless you are playing an equally evil party. I think alternatives such as flesh to stone, baleful polymorph, sanctify the wicked (which I argue is NOT evil, despite popular opinion), banishment, and the like are probably the best options available to the good party- you can disable him and prevent his return without resorting to obviously evil things such as conversion to undead and cruel acts such as dismembering him and scattering the pieces in separate demiplanes.
Quoriil 07-25-05, 11:26 AM	Subdue him, put him in a inverted circle of protection, 'planar binding' a succubus and tell her that both her task and her payment are to drain him to nothing, then take his soul and return to the abyss. OR Flesh to Stone, Stone to mud, put mud in river or ocean.
friedmad 07-25-05, 01:38 PM	I am pretty sure that unless this guy has the backing of a MAJOR deity, no cleric in their right mind would ever cast a SECOND true resurrection on a guy who was unable to keep himself alive. Once I understand, but twice? I dont think so...
Leewei 07-25-05, 02:07 PM	I'm pretty sure even True Resurrection cannot restore someone who died from old age. Use Polymorph Any Object to turn him into a shrew or some other mammal with an extremely short lifespan.
CJDragon 07-25-05, 02:07 PM	Strip him of his gear, and you raise him yourself. He comes back with one HP and down a level. kill him again, now he is down 2 levels. He probably wont respond to another raise spell. But you have reduced his power by a bunch. I've probably got this wrong... ( I usually do) but doesn't a soul know the alignment and identity of the person trying to raise them? If so, why would he willingly allow them to raise him, especially twice? :S
Venom of the Yuan Ti 07-25-05, 02:22 PM	Just kill him. Returning to life is not a huge problem. As it has been said no one will trust him not to fail more thatn twice. If you can keep him dead a year any political power he may have had will have been taken by the age old favourate, the power vacume. If you are paranoid, ask an order of clerics/grove of druids/Academy of wizards (depending on his crimes) to keep an eye on the body for you. If he weas backed by an evil god the clerics should do it for free, if he was trying to userp nature (psudonatural) the Druids will do it for free, if he was very powerfull near the academy the Wizards will certainly be interested in keeping him dead on the less for thine more for mine theory.) As for revolving door undead (liches, vampires (under certain DMs) ghosts) or fiends, well that is part of their charm. (for cool ideas on how to get rid of a vampire for good in a "drop of blood and guess whos back" world, see Carpe Juggulum by Terry Prattchet.)
Toren Megoa 07-25-05, 02:45 PM	If the person you are trying to eliminate is that powerful, just find a Sphere of Annihilation. The only way they can come back then is through the intervention of a deity, and if the deity cares enough to resurrect said villain, then you are in trouble my friend. Sources: Page 279 of the DM's Guide
celtredleg 07-25-05, 03:37 PM	I've probably got this wrong... ( I usually do) but doesn't a soul know the alignment and identity of the person trying to raise them? If so, why would he willingly allow them to raise him, especially twice? :S Yes, indeed they do. The question would be, does he know the name of all the party members??? Or perhaps you could just use the services of a neutral cleric. As for willingly allow the resurrection, thats the idea. After he gets brought back just to get killed again, he should be very hesitant to come back again. Most likely this is an evil act, but hey it seems to need doing, so go get attonened afterwards.
cvazi 07-25-05, 04:43 PM	You could always permanency stasus or sequester. Though for a more vile approach, you could always mind seed them. . . :D
DaveReaves 07-25-05, 04:44 PM	This guy sounds like a lich. Next time he dies make sure to destory all his possessions to make sure his phylactery is gone for good. Once you destory that, the lich is dead forver. If this is not a lich, then someone is spending a LOT of money on resurections. Start looking for people who are buying more dimonds than they could every possibly use.
WizardlyFriend 07-25-05, 04:45 PM	make sure youa re the one ressurecting him. ress him, kill him, ress him, kill him. pretty soon he'll be so level that it won't matter (meanwhile you gain levels for killing him over and over)
Derren S. 07-25-05, 05:01 PM	Again, the dead person knows the alignment of the one who tries to ressurect him so he must be very stupid to fall for that.
psionichamster 07-25-05, 07:15 PM	dont bother killing him beat him, subdue him, bring him back to prison cut off his arms, legs, blind, deafen, mute him keep him in a cell, well fed and cared for...he tries to starve himself, forcefeed him, he tries to suicide (how, i don't know, but anyways) cast CLW or Cure Minor on him best way to make someone not a threat anymore...use the psionic power mindseed, teleport him somewhere far away, let him live his/your life in obscurity of course, bringing him to the oppositly aligned plane and imprisoning him there works, too...and it aint evil (well, if you bring him to celestia) toss him in a bag of holding, then throw said bag into a portable hole (or vice versa) baleful polymorph: puppy. then keep said puppy. flesh to stone, meld stone works, too (or stone shape...that's not a person, that's a rock) but the best way to make sure someone dies for real...take him to a plane where time is accelerated (ie, 1 day there is 1 second in real world) and lock him up check up every minute or so. within a couple hours (at most, i assume elves would be the hardest to off in this manner) he's gone, for good. not even the gods bring back people after their "natural" time to die has come. (if he's a spellcaster, remember to break his fingers off, cut out his tongue, and for goodness sake, strip-search him and confiscate anything magical.) namaste' the hamster
eudas 07-26-05, 11:49 AM	I'm pretty sure even True Resurrection cannot restore someone who died from old age. Use Polymorph Any Object to turn him into a shrew or some other mammal with an extremely short lifespan. that's a pretty good idea. i don't know if they would age at their normal rate or if they'd age at the rate of the form they currently occupy (in which case, never ever turn into a fly) but if you can figure out a way to artificially advance a target's age so that they die of natural old age then they can't be resurrected. eudas
VarisTalnethalas 07-26-05, 02:00 PM	I agree that polymorphing into a fly and let it die is a great idea. in your situation I would have used flesh to stone, then put it in a portable hole. Bury, sink or trap the portable hole in another plane. If he is ever found again, it will be in a different age and time. Or just polymorph him into a sheep and give him to some lonely farmer. Last time I ran into that problem (prisoner refused to talk) we arranged for a vampire, turned the prisoner into a vampire that is of course under the control of the vampire that killed him. Then have the Vampire ask the appropriate questions. That would be a permanent solution to your charm problem as well. If you are good though... stick to trap the soul, polymorph and flesh to stone. Oooh did you know that a trapped soul is hard currency in the nine hells?
Vatras 07-26-05, 03:36 PM	And here is the solution for the not-so-magically-gifted, who want to make sure that a major villain stays dead: - Kill him with CON damaging poison, there is no coming back from zero CON, no matter how true the resurrection is :cool:
Quoriil 07-26-05, 04:00 PM	unless he becomes/is the undead... ;) that said... dervish/tempest with wounding weapons = :D no save con damage
Arkidisey 07-26-05, 04:25 PM	or you could just depleat his intellegence in which case he'd be to much of a MORON to do anything, infact i think if he were that stupid he'd die of not knowing how to breathe! :D:D:D:D that would be funny!
Red_Ninja 07-26-05, 05:05 PM	If your villian using death as another chance to strike at you (from a fresh body no less...) you have a bunch of alternatives... don't kill him... find the equivalent of the deepest darkest prison in the kingdon, cut off his fingers, his tongue, and eyes, and dump him in there, you may want to inflict some brain damage too, in case... or put a ring of water breathing, and a ring of sustenance on him, tie his hands behind his back, lock the chains, and throw him in a box with air holes in it and throw the box in a lake... or sell him to a devil as a slave/torture subject, using some iron clad wording in the contract that keeps him from dying... or stasis him... or once you defeat him (again) bring his arms/legs, and bring him back/heal him yourself...now that he's your prisoner... keep feeding him...but never untie him...eventually, his limbs will atrophy and he'll become a bitter parapaligic, then...then you can leave him on the front porch with a guard dog while you go adventuring...-- if you don't want him to talk, cut out his togue... I like the polymorph into the sheep in maine idea... hope these help!
Thantrax 07-27-05, 09:02 PM	Well, one thing I feel obligated to point out is that the problem with that one particular problem is over. We solved that successfully by killing the person contracted to raise him. Case closed. It just was the situation that got me thinking. What if we didn't know who it was? How could we stop enemies from just coming back, again and again? True Resurection seems to make it so you have to remove them from play forever without killing them. Imprisonment is a good plan. I like the idea of animating them as undead, but it does raise some ethical problems. Flesh to Stone certainly wouldn't kill them, so that could work. Especially if you found a way to make it inconvenient to change him back, like building the statue into a wall so he'd come back and then be trapped. Or heck, right IN the wall so you'd have to extract him to get him back for restoration. Wouldn't Con damage be restored with a True Ressurection? I also find it hard to believe that deitys would start denying this person the ability to be True Resurected. Yes, he keeps losing his life, but he keeps proving himself worthy of the 25 000 gp price tag! Plus whatever else he/she's paying to get the spell done for them!
Trap Master 07-28-05, 03:24 AM	In complete warrior, their is a new metal that traps the soul of the person that is near it when they die... you could try that...
Red_Ninja 07-28-05, 10:03 AM	I really love the "turn to stone and pour a concrete wall around him" idea-- I'm in construction- why didn't I think of that!
friedmad 07-29-05, 01:25 PM	And here is the solution for the not-so-magically-gifted, who want to make sure that a major villain stays dead: - Kill him with CON damaging poison, there is no coming back from zero CON, no matter how true the resurrection is :cool: try again - true resurrection restored all lost ability points as well. and if it doesnt, restoration will work in its stead before doing the ressing
friedmad 07-29-05, 01:29 PM	I really love the "turn to stone and pour a concrete wall around him" idea-- I'm in construction- why didn't I think of that! The RPG-version of the Mafia - they dont kill you, put cement shoes on you, and dump u in the ocean - they hire a wizard to turn you into stone, pulverize you, then use you in the mortar mix when they subcontract the town wall reconstruction job to the teamsters....
Milandros 07-29-05, 02:18 PM	To be honest, all this depends on whether or not the DM WANTS to bring back the bad guy... afdter all, think of all those superhero comic books where "of course he's dead!" villians somehow return again and again... ;) If it's a genuine part of the background, as it seems to have been in your case, and the DM is playing fair, then possibly an imprisonment is the best idea. The fourth plane of Pandemonium is full of tiny holes and caverns not connected to anything else. The gods hide stuff here they don't want found - ancient artifacts, monsters too powerful for even them to permanently destroy, treasures, etc. Unless your enemy's ally knows exactly which location he is in, he's not likely to find him. And good luck to him if he searches randomly - after the third time I'd opened a portal to a beasty that munches on tarrasques like popcorn, I'd probably think "blow this, he's not paying me enough..."
Thantrax 07-31-05, 03:03 PM	Oh, I fully agree that the DM will bring back anyone that he really wants to. But there's a difference between him really wanting to bring back that NPC and it being silly not to. I'm looking for these ways so I can make it remarkable that the NPC has showed up instead of thinking 'Dang, he had a cleric after all'. Not to mention, when I DM, I'd love to have a few ideas kicking around for when the evil chancelor kills the king and takes his place, ect... too easy to undo that with spells! One notion my brother had was to take a person, animate them as something like a skeleton, then to bring them to Sigil and throw them off the side. Recovering a body falling down the Spire would be about as impossible as it gets! And you can't raise the person if they're undead....
friedmad 07-31-05, 10:52 PM	apply the Curst template to him. its in one of the Faerun books
MarkB 08-01-05, 10:32 AM	One solution we came up with (but haven't got to try yet): Cast Feeblemind on the subject (keep casting it until it takes), then set him up in a comfortable environment on a fast-time plane with a lifetime's supply of food and drink. INT 1 is simple animal intelligence, enough to let him manage eating and drinking. A few prime-material days later, he dies of old age.
Thantrax 08-01-05, 01:58 PM	Looks like planar imprisonment with a plane that makes time pass real fast is the popular one. I wonder how long it would take to set up that cell! Hey guys, I'm going to hop on over and lay down some bedding for the prisoner, I'll be back right after I do that... which should be about a week here. Seeya! :D Lets modify the listed ways then... 1) Trap the Soul and then make certain the gem is in a safe place 2) Imprisonment in a relatively secure location 3) Kill the person and then cast Animate Dead or other such undead creating spells and then store the body relatively securely. (possible alignment problems) 4) Flesh to Stone and secure the body somewhere safely, preferably inside a stone wall or somewhere. 5) Baleful Polymorph the enemy into some harmless creature, preferably one that cannot fight back and is immobile so it can't run away. Give it tender love and care until it dies and name it Fluffy. 6) Feeblemind to remove escape capabilities and then shunt them to a different plane of existance. Let them age and die there. Looks like a good list, but I wonder if we cannot add to it!
Vaelan 08-02-05, 02:22 AM	Thinaun weapons and an assassin's guild with a connection to the lower planes. Not only do they get rid of the possibility of a their victims getting resurrected, but they get payment from devils at the same time. Lovely.
MarkB 08-02-05, 03:51 AM	Looks like a good list, but I wonder if we cannot add to it! The Keeper's Fang weapon ability (+4 equivalent) in the Eberron Campaign setting embeds a Khyber shard in the weapon's hilt, making it an evil-aligned weapon. A creature slain by this weapon has its soul entrapped in the Keeper's domain in the Khyber underdark, making it impossible to Raise, Resurrect or Reincarnate the victim. The only suggested solution is to venutre into the Keeper's lair and retrieve the soul, and that's not exactly a walk in the park.
Salookanana 08-02-05, 10:49 PM	Keeping the sucker dead: Kill him, then Wish him to stay dead. Or bribe the DM to keep him dead. If the DM wants the guy to live, he will. If the DM wants the guy to die, he will. But if you want to **** of your DM.... Trap the soul in a gem and give it to a demon. His payment and job will be to keep the gem forever. Or you can make friends with him....
tharivol266 08-03-05, 12:33 AM	kill him then sink him in a big thing of mud then use mud to stone to give him a perfectly form fitting tomb then throw that into a deep lake or ocean or something and itll sink then make a stone golem(flesh will float, clay will dissolve, and iron will rust) and have the golem go down and protect the tomb fro anyone trying to disturb it.
Veton 08-03-05, 01:18 AM	This guy sounds like a lich. Next time he dies make sure to destory all his possessions to make sure his phylactery is gone for good. Once you destory that, the lich is dead forver. I doubt that a smart lich would keep his phylactery anywhere near his lair or on his person. He'll probably have it hidden somewhere with various protections and whatnot (which is a whole different thread.) If this is not a lich, then someone is spending a LOT of money on resurections. Start looking for people who are buying more dimonds than they could every possibly use. I'm going to have to remember this one :)
Elemental 08-03-05, 06:00 PM	Have the party psion use a Mind Seed on him. In a few days, he'll turn into a duplicate of the psion--mind and soul. It's instantateous once it takes effect, so there's nothing to dispel.
Thantrax 08-04-05, 03:33 AM	Keeping the sucker dead: Or bribe the DM to keep him dead. Heh heh, that's got to be the most foolproof method I've ever heard of! Well, now that I've finally done some research, Trap Master and Vaelan's notion of the Thinaun weapons is a viable one, if expensive. At the level you need to start worrying about enemies raising from the dead, this is likely affordable though. And it keeps you from just imprisoning everyone, meaning you only keep dead the ones you really worry about... Tharivol266, if the guy is dead, True Ressurect will work without any body parts at all, sadly that won't work. But it is a good idea for maybe safeguarding a relic. A great way maybe to store the Thinaun weapon previously listed, or maybe a Trap the Soul gem. Elemental, I'm sorry I'm not familiar with Psions and they are something that we've never had available in our games. No DM has wanted to sit down and learn that rules set... I can't blame them, I don't want to! Makes me not want to yous Illithids though because I feel like I'm cheating them if I don't use Psionics. I'm not so fond of any of these ideas of locking the guy away in Hell, or giving his soul to a demon. After all, demons are not exactly what we call reliable. And even if you made a binding contract for protecting the soul forever, it couldn't be the payment. Why would you ever commit to a soul you can't USE?
Vaelan 08-04-05, 10:01 AM	Trap Master and Vaelan's notion of the Thinaun weapons is a viable one, if expensive Just tell the demon that if he wants another soul, he will have to give you the weapon back after it is done extracting the current soul. :)
Faragon 08-04-05, 12:52 PM	You want this baron or whatever being unable to use his power for evil? Cut out his tongue, burn out his eyes and slip him into manacles of sustenance. Then bury him in a coffin, someplace his allies won't look. Of course, if by some offchance he does come back, he'll be uhm, seething :P
Black Knight Geno 08-04-05, 02:47 PM	Hire the Groat, an assassion guild in the Union planes, they promise to kill the target in a month, and they use a fun unique magical item that doesn't allow ressurection, PERIOD. No ifs. No ands. And certainly no buts. :evillaugh And if they lose an assassin, the entire guild drops what it is doing to kill this mother-sticker( :cookie: for whoever guesses the reference)(hint: the person almost didn't survive it, making him a candidate for this award.)(will put answer in my sig., eventually)
Thantrax 08-06-05, 04:54 AM	Black Knight Geno Hire the Groat, an assassion guild in the Union planes, they promise to kill the target in a month, and they use a fun unique magical item that doesn't allow ressurection, PERIOD. No ifs. No ands. And certainly no buts Hmm, fun, so all I have to do is remove the need for me to adventure by going to a planar city that may or may not exist in this cosmology, paying them grotesque ammounts of money, and then sitting back and letting the epic level assassins do my dirty work.... Sounds like fun for the villians to do, but its a no-go for PCs. Reminds me of a Barbarian I adventured with who triggered a lightning bolt trap on the front door of a dungeon, and then decided we should all go home because this dungeon was not 'cost effective'. He only dared proceed into the dungeon when the wizard and the cleric offered to front line for the cowardly barbarian. Faragon, to your suggestion, again, I don't have any particular problems with THAT nemesis anymore. Generic solutions is what I'm thinking. PS: I have a friend who is much more planar knowledgable than I am, he did alot of reading on planescape and the like. He mentioned the idea of forcing the soul to become a Petitioner since a Petitioner merges with the fabric of their plane and thus could not be raised. Anyone know how that might be done?