Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rickiel 12-03-05, 06:35 PM	Okay, we all know the story. Either A.) Heroic Knight comes in and sweeps the princess off her feet or B.) Heroic Thief comes in and sweeps the princess off her feet. Or to put it another way, heroes would like to develop a romantic interest with a member of the royal family. This is normal. However I have honestly not seen examples of this on the forums. Now here's my problem. With my dear rogue-mage, who is currently being used in the original campaign that spawned him, he has been quite the bachelor and free-man. However, one day, the mercenary company he works with got an escort job to take an elven princess to a faraway land for political purposes. The rogue-mage, upon first sight, caught 'the bug of heart-throbbin'. However, the rogue-mage is 1.) poor, very poor for a 10th level character (3 weak magic items and no gold); 2.) personal belief of never bowing to anyone of authority (includes said princess but excludes gods); 3.) the princess is already engaged to another noble (whom is a jerk that not even she likes) whom is most definately stronger than the rogue-mage. There are other minor and major problems but currently these are the big ones for Raz the rogue-mage. He knows he can do a few things that might help him; make lil mechanical wonders for her, try to be friends with her, and of course saving her life. Now he doesn't THINK he's fallen for her *not a problem, he'll realize it on his own* but he does believe that those three problems are definately going to hamper any chances of 'winning' the heart of the princess! HELP! :help: The rogue-mage asks in the name of all love-struck underdogs!!! WHAT CAN ONE DO TO WIN THE HEART OF A FAIR-and royal-MAIDEN!!!
Gworraent 12-03-05, 08:07 PM	as you already said, save said bonnie lass's life challenge noble to a duel(magical one mebbe, i dunno the other noble) marriages were made not cos of love but in order to create a situation in which the parent-inlaws got something(wealth, more political power,maybe the marriage was a symbol of peace between two warring countries) so, the rogue/mage needs to be able to offer some sort of power. if he is respected by people for his magic, maybe he can run errands to prove his usefulness.
HyperVyperBeam 12-04-05, 02:10 AM	The players in my game kidnapped the princess from a ball held in her honor. And it turned out that she really wanted to go. She was fed up with princessly stuff. Maybe the character should kidnap her. maybe slip her a super strong love potion just to be on the safe side.
Gedrin 12-04-05, 04:49 AM	It's quite possible, depending on the world, you won't be allowed to marry her, nor her to marry you. You see, her father...the guy with the crown you've refused to give proper resepct...he could simply forbid your marriage. After all, his choices appear to be either: A: The poor, unrully, disrespectful, "adventurer", who has no lands, influence and if he were allowed to court the princess would cause a scandal and offend the current fiance. OR B: The wealthy, cultured, member of the nobility who is known to be a strong fellow and who's family will make an exellent political match, not to mention the current engagement. Now, unless you want to wind up getting charged with treason or causing a major political upheaval, you'll want to make yourself at least equally attractive to the king as the other suitors. For an adventurer, I recomend: 1. Become a truely beloved hero of the people. 2. Use your status as hero to gain the legitimate respect of the nobility. 3. Undertake a major task that benefits the kingdom, and do so in a leadership role. Perhaps lead a military campaign. 4. If you lead a military campaign, you could well get to keep the land...thus a title. Other wise, you'll need to parley your success into some lands and a title, perhaps recieving such as a reward for your great service. Now, you're a hero, successful leader, titled member of the noble class, and you've got an "in" with the princess. Now, you're not born noble, but if you've properly built your popular support and the admiration of the noblilty, you may be in the running. That may seem like a lot jut to marry a girl..but you're not after just any girl. Remember, marrying a member of the royal family is one way to take over an entire country. If she's the crown princess, when her parrents die...you'd be king. All the other nobles and power players who might want to take over have probably considered how they might wed the princess too.
The White Sorcerer 12-04-05, 07:37 AM	Swing in, grab the wench, and ride off into the sunset. 'tis the swashbuckling way.
Radijs 12-04-05, 08:39 AM	Yarr. That be the shasbuckler way indeed! Or you can invest some skill points in preform (serenade) and woo your way into the ladies heart.
Nani? 12-04-05, 09:06 AM	Yarr. That be the shasbuckler way indeed! Or you can invest some skill points in preform (serenade) and woo your way into the ladies heart. After the serenade, use diplomacy to whisper sweet nothings in her ear, changeing her attitude. All the best, Nani?
Novacat 12-04-05, 12:55 PM	Step 1: Club meets head. Step 2: Drag to cave. Step 3: Get freaky.
Rickiel 12-04-05, 02:51 PM	Hmmm...many suggestions, all quite viable. In except for those with the rogue-mage as leader. The other guy, an elven noble, is a jerk as admitted by the princess. The elves in this world came from a region that had at one point subjugated humans before the humans rose up and split the elves into two nations. The elven princess has been asked by the emperor of Titeria (the empire of humans that surrounds the original elven lands) has asked the princess to come to speak. The princess is going to see for the end of hostilities between elves and humans. However the noble beau does not exactly like humans... Originally posted by Gworraent as you already said, save said bonnie lass's life challenge noble to a duel(magical one mebbe, i dunno the other noble) Hmm.... definately need to play a major role in saving her life. Though as a hired escort job I need to PREVENT her coming into serious danger. However for a duel... If it comes down to that, I'll LET the guy get on his horse, with his lance, and charge me. I may be a rogue, a paltry wizard, but SAINTS AND PROXIES am I will be smart and out fox the guy! Unfortunately HyperVyperBeam, Raz is too kind to try to coerce love via a love potion. Just not right. Originally posted by Gedrin 1. Become a truely beloved hero of the people. 2. Use your status as hero to gain the legitimate respect of the nobility. 3. Undertake a major task that benefits the kingdom, and do so in a leadership role. Perhaps lead a military campaign. 4. If you lead a military campaign, you could well get to keep the land...thus a title. Other wise, you'll need to parley your success into some lands and a title, perhaps recieving such as a reward for your great service. This diplomatic mission is to prevent war. And the rogue-mage isn't actually particularly known for leading a military campaigns...or military. He played a supporting role in the mercenary guild he 'belongs' to. Though that IS an idea to keep track of. Become a truly beloved hero. I like that idea. Unfortunately Raz is usually content with being a supporting man, unless it deals with his particular talents (sabatoge, sneak attack, infiltration, trickery) which can be more than useful. Getting land... Raz has however, has been having his eye on some particularly odd land. A volcano and its surrounding forest. Who ELSE would be crazy/brave/opportunistic enough to try to make such a place his own? Quote: Originally Posted by Radijs Yarr. That be the shasbuckler way indeed! Or you can invest some skill points in preform (serenade) and woo your way into the ladies heart. After the serenade, use diplomacy to whisper sweet nothings in her ear, changeing her attitude. All the best, Thank the White Sorcerer for bringing such a beloved idea up!!! I knew those Use Rope ranks would come in handy!! While tis the swashbuckling way, is it...the way of the trickster? Raz is aiming to become an Arcane Trickster. Would being a swashbuckler really be his way? And the only problem with sweet nothings, and I mean the ONLY problem, is that they have nothing. I want to give....something. Originally posted by Novacat Step 1: Club meets head. Step 2: Drag to cave. Step 3: Get freaky. I guess thats why I got a sap and sneak attack! Thank you all whom have given me advice! I will apply as necessary! I guess the thing to do for now is to pursue being a great help, make sure the princess gets to the emperor for politics, prevent her demise, and generally be a hero! And from the money earned, get me some land! And expose the fiance as an incompetent fool.
Demonfey 12-04-05, 05:38 PM	Actually, hooking up the elf prick prince with another woman would probably help, since she would suddenly become free to play the field. The how would be to throw his bachelor party.
Varia 12-05-05, 05:09 AM	Become a truly beloved hero. I like that idea. Unfortunately Raz is usually content with being a supporting man, unless it deals with his particular talents (sabatoge, sneak attack, infiltration, trickery) which can be more than useful. Love can make you do things you otherwise wouldnt, including forcing you out of your comfort zone of being a supporting man. But if the princess sees that youre going out of your comfort zone for her it may help your cause. Eliminating the prince as an opponent, either by discrediting him or diverting him towards another woman is possibly your best bet, to buy some time for the rest of your campaign for her heart. Or possibly is there some long, out of town mission you could somehow arrange to volunteer the prince for, and thus buy yourself time? If the princess doesnt like him, and since you currently have access to her ear while escorting her, perhaps you could plant the idea in her head to volunteer him to go deal with the Trouble in Fantasyland, or wherever so she can get him away from her for a while? I'm assuming that same reasons that you wont love potion her also make you unwilling to arrange a "life-threatening" incident that you could then save her from, even if you could figure out a way to engineer one? Good luck in your quest for her heart, I'll post if I can come up with anything to help. :) *Hugs* Varia
Rickiel 12-05-05, 12:45 PM	Yeah, arranging a 'life threatening situation' just to win the gal's heart, while admittably very tempting, is beneath the rogue-mage moral-wise. Though the rogue-mage most certainly CAN engineer one! Boy it'd be so easy! All there needs to be done is.... er...nevermind. Hook up the elf prick 'prince' with someone else... Tough this will be. Look into it I shall.
Demonfey 12-05-05, 12:50 PM	Easy enough: the night before the wedding, you throw him a bachelor party, get him really drunk, and get him to marry a woman there, and make sure there are plenty of witnesses, or that they wake up the next morning someplace really public. :D Better yet, make sure it's in the church that the prince and princess are supposed to get married in. :devil: Best still, make sure that the person's a half ogre. :schemes:. Wait, scratch that last one. The prince'd have so much alcohol in him, he'd die from alcohol poisoning on that one.
Missing Minds 12-05-05, 01:42 PM	Lets see here... Count of Monte Cristo comes to mind. Play the part of a rich noble of a land that realy doesn't exist. Disguse yourself and dig up lots of dirt on said noble. Most normaly have dirty laundry it seems. He seems the type that would incite a riot, let the noble deal with it, while standing next to the princess side and pointing out just how badly all the humans are being treated which caused them to riot. Do a service for the king that would be right up his ally.... Well I would suggest being a spy, but you did state RM wouldn't bow down to a noble, so that sort of kills that one even if it was for the heart and said body of princes love. oh shesh... why didn't any one think of this one before. Knowing your character from the Best Lines thread, hand the Noble a sheet of paper with stuff written in it in the form of "I memorized exploding runes today". Don't all nobels love fan mail afterall?
Black Kitten 12-05-05, 02:54 PM	Perhaps the most odd route, but something that sounds to me like Rogue-Mage would certainly get away with :D : Just tell the girl. And ask her support into arranging something. Said noble may beat him up, but he can play the tragic lover. He doesn't need to get his goal right now. What I read of him, he can do with a good few years of self-pity first. Ensure he gets to see her from time to time and spreads the word about his eternal love for 'her he will never hold'. A story that will catch on. If you have a nice DM, there will be a happy ending. If you have a slightly bad DM, you will have to fight for your happy ending. If you have a very cruel DM, you have the best character development in the world awaiting you! ("Oh, woman of my dreams. Why have thou passed yonder?!" (I'm Dutch, don't anyone correct me on bad Old English!))
Rickiel 12-05-05, 03:21 PM	A bachelor party eh? Well that prince did like to drink... I'll have to do what I can on digging up dirt on our dearly 'beloved' noble. Alas that's gonna be awhile until we can get back into 'elven' country. From what I understand the princess has been put into this arranged marriage because the noble is from a 'prestigious noble family'. And the rogue-mage, or RM if you will, has only known his mother... how prestigious indeed. Currently doing a service for said king. Escorting the princess, well me and my buds in the mercenary guild, to an emperor for diplomatic purposes. Of course, Raz needs to find someway to avoid bowing without causing a fit and igniting international/racial war. Again. He's chaotic good so he rather LIKES his freedom, but he doesn't want harm to come to his friends. Explosive Runes, great stuff it is. Alas, we have an Eldritch Knight in the party who tries to keep an eye on the rogue-mage. Somehow I'm sure he'll track the incident down to me if the noble went Kablooey. Playing the part of rich noblemen, would love to. Just need money first. Rogue-mage is currently playing in the ORIGINAL campaign that spawned him. A low-magic low-treasure campaign. Two magical items (bracers of armor +1 and gloves of dexterity +2). Level 10. Fun stuff. Coming right out and say it? Definately need to wait on that, at least until he's absolutely sure if the princess would reciprocate the feelings. And as an elf, a few decades isn't too bad! And I think it'll be great to fight for this happy ending/beginning! Hehehehe...I can see it now. Being challenged to a duel. An open statement that the noble thinks of the rogue-mage as a threat. RM accepts and says, "Alright, you get your horse and lance. I'll get my ferret." The ferret is Raz's familiar. I have the mental image of balancing on top of a lance and fighting the noble while he's still riding the horse!
Black Kitten 12-05-05, 03:57 PM	Coming right out and say it? Definately need to wait on that, at least until he's absolutely sure if the princess would reciprocate the feelings. And as an elf, a few decades isn't too bad! And I think it'll be great to fight for this happy ending/beginning! Hehehehe...I can see it now. Being challenged to a duel. An open statement that the noble thinks of the rogue-mage as a threat. RM accepts and says, "Alright, you get your horse and lance. I'll get my ferret." The ferret is Raz's familiar. I have the mental image of balancing on top of a lance and fighting the noble while he's still riding the horse! That wasn't what I meant. What I read from Raz he's the true Chaotic Good character that tries to do the honest thing that fits his heart. Singing his song of love while it may not be wise would, in my mind, fit with him. Regardless of the princess' reaction. Since if she doesn't want him, he'll still have a broken heart to sing about. Or am I misinterpreting him now?
Rickiel 12-05-05, 04:23 PM	:mymy: GAH! YOU'RE RIGHT!!! Terrible of me to forget that Raz is a true-blue Chaotic Good guy! That's rather bad of me... Still have to wait a lil bit though since Raz himself doesn't quite know that he's in amor. But when he figures it out (shouldn't take long. He has a 16 intelligence) IT'LL BE TIME TO TELL!
Demonfey 12-05-05, 04:46 PM	Can you get the noble drunk either way, simply for humor value? Even if she doesn't reciprocate the feelings RM has for her, having a noble owe you for keeping embarassing moments that happen during the bachelor party from reaching the public's ear (it's not blackmail, it's just making sure the prince sees you as a possible friend...) has yet to be something that hurts a character. Also, I bet you could get other people to pay for it all, too, simply because it's a prince's wedding, and why not make it extravagant?
Zemyla 12-05-05, 08:20 PM	3.) the princess is already engaged to another noble (whom is a jerk that not even she likes) and is most definately stronger than the rogue-mage. Wait, the princess is stronger than your mage? That's some princess.
Unther the unready 12-05-05, 08:49 PM	Wait, the princess is stronger than your mage? That's some princess. And not much chance of the traditional 'save the princess' approach either...
Rickiel 12-05-05, 08:52 PM	Oh its not hard to be stronger than my rogue-mage. Just need a strength of 11. Anyways I edited that part to say, "3.) the princess is already engaged to another noble (whom is a jerk that not even she likes) whom is most definately stronger than the rogue-mage." That should clarify that the NOBLE is stronger than the rogue-mage.
Varia 12-05-05, 10:56 PM	"He who hesitates is lost". Dont wait too long to let the princess know, or plant seeds of new thoughts in her hear, or she may become resigned to her current fate, or come up with her own plans. And of course if the DM doesnt know then he may accidentally do something in the campaign that messes things up if you wait too long. The sooner the DM, especially, is aware of it, the better. Assuming he isnt already, of course. *Hugs* Varia
Dragoncat 12-06-05, 03:04 AM	From what I understand the princess has been put into this arranged marriage because the noble is from a 'prestigious noble family'. And the rogue-mage, or RM if you will, has only known his mother... how prestigious indeed. The prince may have the advantage of a noble family, but you have the greater advantage of a blank slate. Taking the "noble of a fake land" route, who's to say your father wasn't the Great Hero of some far away land? A King, a powerful archmage, maybe even a quasi-deity. If you're going to bluff, you might as well make it grand! In addition, remember that you don't need wealth and power, merely the illusion thereof. As for the prince himself, use those sneaky arcane abilities! Prestidigitation, ghost sound, mage hand, these are the things embarrassing tricks are made from! Sabotage the prince, in public if possible, whenever you get the chance. Illusions, such as the prince running through the city nude, are especially good at this. Turn him into a complete fool and the arranged marriage will quickly sour. Just be sure to be stealthy about it, not that the great Rogue-Mage will have trouble with that! This will, of course, have to wait until you return to elven lands. Meanwhile, use those roguish ways to charm the lass in any of the ways suggested above.
Catra 12-06-05, 07:03 AM	Actually--who's to say you don't actually have long-lost lands or titles awaiting you to claim them? Talk your DM over and research it in-game! At this point it might just be a hopeless cause, but this is the stuff adventures are made of!
Missing Minds 12-06-05, 08:24 AM	I just had another idea. This is if you can get the ear of the king again. How much does he just trust this noble? Sending you along I'm guessing not much. ;) Now, whisper little "rumors" in his ear about how much ___Insert_rumor_type_here___the noble is involved with and that it would be a good idea if someone like you were commanded to hang around the princess and keep an eye out for her well being more than just in transet to be certain that the King's reputation do not become tarnished as well. Perfect way to hand aroung her all the time while under the crown's approval. Granted this may mean a bit of bowing before royalty, but with a character such as yourself with a score in mind, it would seem fitting (at least to me) that he'd do so for a while to get in good graces.
Far_Traveler 12-06-05, 10:09 AM	as an alternative, make the prince not want the princess, prestidigitize his food that he would obviously demand she make for him (if he is as snobby as you say) to taste horrible, on second thought, that would likely end in a fiancee' beating, illusions or enchantments work well here, you guys come up with ideas, the bell just rang.
Demonfey 12-06-05, 10:48 AM	They're right, you don't know who the R-M has in his ancestry. Also, do you have any nobility that owes you a really big favor? Like, say, a title?
Rickiel 12-06-05, 10:54 AM	Unfortunately...no. Oddly enough RM has absolutely no-one of high-class status who owes him a debt of favor. There has been a couple of times the mercenary-guild he's in has done some incredible things for royalty, but we always got paid whether in gold or in a ship. (WE HAVE A SHIP!!!) Though Raz is going to try to track down his ancestry. Provided it's even remotely possible. See Raz was born in Sigil, City of Doors, most famous planar metropolis, and his ancestors may be ANYWHERE!!! And on the Prime world he's currently 'migrated' to, he's so far has had no luck in finding relations.
Nani? 12-06-05, 11:10 AM	Way to handle the prince? See if you can't find a black market "Girdle of Masuclinity/Feminity" and make sure the prince trys it on. "Ladies, due to unforseen complications, the wedding will be.... delayed.... at the very least,...uhh... until the resolution to the Prince....ess's ......current condition." Best of all, find a way to convince the Princ...ess that this is "for the best." Also the dipolmacy of two nations is complicated but not undone. All the best, Nani?
Zemyla 12-06-05, 11:18 AM	Ooh! That way, you can marry both of them!
ChaotikLawful 12-06-05, 12:33 PM	Does ye olde rogue-mage know spells like Alter Self or Disguise Self? If so, here is a plan for you. I won't give advice for winning her heart (your roguish-mageish charms should take care of that) but rather for dealing with the noble. Option 1. As the groom makes his way to the wedding, give him a good ol' sap to the head and lock him in a janitor's closet. Disguise/Alter self to look exactly like him, and take his place at the wedding. Once the wedding is over, reveal to princess. Option 2. As preperations for the wedding are being made, kidnap the groom in secret, make sure he is locked somewhere for a few days and constantly be under disguise/alter self to look like him. It wouldn't hurt to take the noble's purse too, you're going to need it. Be a bastard, a heavy drinker (make sure not to actually drink too much, you may blurt out something) and a womanizer. Kick puppies and starving orphans, be seen with women of bad reputation, let money slip through your fingers like water but only on decadent things, and finally, INSULT THE KING'S MOTHER! If after this they will STILL let the noble marry her, try option 1. Good luck, and let me know how it comes out! :D
Demonfey 12-06-05, 12:54 PM	One problem: CG. Best just to make the groom do the second part himself... Way to handle the prince? See if you can't find a black market "Girdle of Masuclinity/Feminity" and make sure the prince trys it on. "Ladies, due to unforseen complications, the wedding will be.... delayed.... at the very least,...uhh... until the resolution to the Prince....ess's ......current condition." Best of all, find a way to convince the Princ...ess that this is "for the best." Also the dipolmacy of two nations is complicated but not undone. All the best, Nani? Must...not...die...of laughter...aw hell... :rofl: :ghosted:
Nani? 12-06-05, 01:22 PM	One problem: CG. It can be done in a non evil way. No one is hurt permanently. The marriage your princess didn't want is prevented. You can show an "underhanded" kindness in helping the new Princ--ess "adjust", hopefully becoming less of a bastard due to being forced to see the world through a different perspective, even if changed back. Think of ways of making it a reforming experince, much like the "Christmas Carol" was for Jacob Marly. In the end, even if you lose, the Princess marries a better "man". It also is good chance to show off to your Princess by being a good guy. All the Best, Nani?
Demonfey 12-06-05, 01:33 PM	Sorry, should have explained better. The comment on CG was about this: Does ye olde rogue-mage know spells like Alter Self or Disguise Self? If so, here is a plan for you. I won't give advice for winning her heart (your roguish-mageish charms should take care of that) but rather for dealing with the noble. Option 1. As the groom makes his way to the wedding, give him a good ol' sap to the head and lock him in a janitor's closet. Disguise/Alter self to look exactly like him, and take his place at the wedding. Once the wedding is over, reveal to princess. Option 2. As preperations for the wedding are being made, kidnap the groom in secret, make sure he is locked somewhere for a few days and constantly be under disguise/alter self to look like him. It wouldn't hurt to take the noble's purse too, you're going to need it. Be a bastard, a heavy drinker (make sure not to actually drink too much, you may blurt out something) and a womanizer. Kick puppies and starving orphans, be seen with women of bad reputation, let money slip through your fingers like water but only on decadent things, and finally, INSULT THE KING'S MOTHER! If after this they will STILL let the noble marry her, try option 1. Good luck, and let me know how it comes out! Either of those would probably be at least a little evil.
Rickiel 12-06-05, 10:57 PM	What would a Chaotic Good do for love? That's a good question. Raz doesn't like others to get into trouble for what he's done. Provided said others are friends or innocents. And he's affiliated with a mercenary company so he knows that if he screws something up pretty bad someone might take it out on his buds.
Demonfey 12-07-05, 01:04 AM	Also, the noble's of high standing, right? And having him able to pin anything really bad on RM would be bad. I mean, if he gets drunk, it'd be his own fault, but if you knock him out and replace him for a bit, then its your fault, and he has a lump to prove it.
The White Sorcerer 12-07-05, 01:30 AM	and he has a lump to prove it. He has a lump to prove that he has been knocked out. But where, when, or by whom? None can be proved by the lump, and the prince might not even know the answer to the last one himself.
Turin 12-07-05, 09:33 AM	He has a lump to prove that he has been knocked out. But where, when, or by whom? None can be proved by the lump, and the prince might not even know the answer to the last one himself.Even fairly simply divination magic can discover this, however. And you can be sure that a nobleman has the means to access such magic. My recommendation is similar to some of those above. You have to woo your fair lass! But I also recommend not messing with the nobleman. If she is in love with your PC, she won't want to be married to him and will see him in a bad light all on her own. You just have to make nice with her father and make a name for yourself in the kingdom (yes, this is against character, but as others have said "love makes you do crazy things"). I also think that, although it would suck for your PC in the long term, there's a really interesting plotline to be had in the idea that the princess might be in love with your PC, but still marry the nobleman. The PC and the princess have an illicit affair, trying to keep it secret from the nobleman. He can continue to work for the king, protecting his interests and his daughter, meanwhile carrying on the affair under everyone's nose. Perhaps the king looks the other way while it goes on, because your PC has ingratiated himself with his lord. Watch the movie Shakespere in Love for some wonderful ideas along these lines (and to see what a good romantic comedy is actually supposed to be like... watch it with your wife/girlfriend for extra brownie points ;) ). It's almost guaranteed to end up badly for you, but it will be a great story!
Illithid13 12-07-05, 10:29 AM	Your a mage right? Well, a Rogue mage, but still, you have arcane spells... Here are a few you might consider: Charm (especially if you have silent spell and still spell) use it on the king, the princess and the prince... This is a good way to get in on the royaltie's good side. Suggestion Use on all again, for the king, suggest that maybe this arangement isn't so good, on the prince to get him to make an arse out of himself and to just have a good time with no reguard to the consequences (this one will work really well when combined with another spell below), and on the priencess, suggest that she run away with you (use as a last ditch effort) Geas/quest (lesser if it will work on him): use on the prince to make an arse out of himself. make it his quest to squander his family fortun on something very foolish, like a chrom charriot, or a solid silver coach. Make sure that its an openended one like "spend all of your family fortuen on what ever you fancy" and be sure to have charmed your way into his grace and then throw out sugestions ever day or so so that he squanders it on foolish stuff and uses poor judjement. What ever you do, make sure you are not present when he is making a discrase of his families name. So in order: Step 1: charm the princess ("you think i'm sexy, you want to kiss me...") Step 2: charm the king (I'm a good person, really) Step 3: charm the prince (we're trusted friends!) Step 4: Geas/Quest the prince (squander all of family fortune) Step 5: sugestion the prince (make an arse out of yourself, Spend money frivilously) Step 6: sugestion the King (cancel the planed wedding and find someone more responsible, like me) Step 7: Sugestion the princess to run away with you and forget about her famil. Slipping a love potion to the princess is a good idea too, but make sure that you do all of this suriptitiously, especially when charming the king... You could also alter step 5 to make him try and kill the king... just make sure that you tip off the king before he has his chance (make it look like he is trying to take over both kingdoms.)
Demonfey 12-07-05, 11:17 AM	The problem with that is there's a guy in the group keeping an eye out for RM doing stuff involving magic, so that wouldn't work so well. I wonder...is there any chance that you could "accidentally" hook up the noble with another high ranking family, to the point of him eloping? Think about it: he runs off, the princess is available, if he has no siblings his familiy wouldn't have anyone to really marry off, and they can't make him get any kind of divorce or anything like that due to causing conflict with other noblility. Since a marriage of nobles would probably have a large amount of them that came to make their own alliances with other high ranking groups, and to arrange similar agreements under someone else's roof as neutral ground, it could just work.
OctoberRaven 12-07-05, 11:38 AM	If you got a 20 in charisma, you don't NEED a plan! Just show the princess why you have such a high score, if you know what I mean. Seriously though, with enough ranks in Bluff and Diplomacy you can charm your way into any princess' pour-poster bed. You don't even need magic...unless you roll nat-1s. THEN you use the old mind-control.
Rickiel 12-07-05, 01:47 PM	Trying to stay AWAY from magical mind-control bits. For a couple of reasons. 1) Raz has a Chaotic GOOD alignment. May mind-control enemies, but won't do so to allies (which includes princess, her family, and on a really really far branch the noble) 2) Elves and Enchantments... Remember that +2 save they have? 3) A couple of spell-slingers keep an eye on Raz SPECIFICALLY to make sure he doesn't get into trouble with magic (Law-heavy world where Raz is one helluva known chaotic element) Now if he had 20 Charisma, he'd have taken levels of sorcerer, not wizard. But nice thought. Want to know his ability scores? Str 10, Dex 20, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 13, Cha 13
OctoberRaven 12-07-05, 06:05 PM	Short of using Slieght of Hand to take your underwear off without first removing your pants, I don't know what you can do with those stats alone, unless your use spells or charisma-based skills. I still think with enough ranks in Bluff and Diplomacy you can charm that dress off of her. And don't forget, Eagle's Splendor isn't mind control. Silent, Still and Eschew Materials. Then use your best Line of Picking Up.
Nani? 12-07-05, 07:36 PM	Your chaotic, you don't care about authority. Your good, so you don't mind control your friends. The Prince is not your friend, but you are at least concerned about his fate because of the overarching needs of the people you care about and well your good in general. It would be a good thing if he saw the world from a different perspective, so he wasn't a jerk. It would be Chaotic as well, disrupting the best laid plans of the forces of order to make the woman you love marry that Jerk, which might not be good for her or anyone else because a bad marridge might also lead to complications down the road. Finally, your not killing anyone and perhaps preventing harm. How he takes it is up to his own free will. Therefore, my girdle suggestion stands. All the best, Nani?
Demonfey 12-07-05, 07:42 PM	Just pick up an item that you "didn't know" was a belt of gender changing charisma and give it to the noble. If you can get in touch with the king, I'm sure he'd think a good present for the groom to be would be a good touch. And everyone knows that cursed items are sneaky, in how they hide as something else until given, so how could the king, or yourself, know?
Rocketboy13 12-07-05, 08:55 PM	Watch the movie The Princess Bride, it should be of some help to you. ;)
bradipus 12-08-05, 05:22 AM	It's quite possible, depending on the world, you won't be allowed to marry her, nor her to marry you. You see, her father...the guy with the crown you've refused to give proper resepct...he could simply forbid your marriage. After all, his choices appear to be either: A: The poor, unrully, disrespectful, "adventurer", who has no lands, influence and if he were allowed to court the princess would cause a scandal and offend the current fiance. OR B: The wealthy, cultured, member of the nobility who is known to be a strong fellow and who's family will make an exellent political match, not to mention the current engagement. Now, unless you want to wind up getting charged with treason or causing a major political upheaval, you'll want to make yourself at least equally attractive to the king as the other suitors. For an adventurer, I recomend: 1. Become a truely beloved hero of the people. 2. Use your status as hero to gain the legitimate respect of the nobility. 3. Undertake a major task that benefits the kingdom, and do so in a leadership role. Perhaps lead a military campaign. 4. If you lead a military campaign, you could well get to keep the land...thus a title. Other wise, you'll need to parley your success into some lands and a title, perhaps recieving such as a reward for your great service. Now, you're a hero, successful leader, titled member of the noble class, and you've got an "in" with the princess. Now, you're not born noble, but if you've properly built your popular support and the admiration of the noblilty, you may be in the running. That may seem like a lot jut to marry a girl..but you're not after just any girl. Remember, marrying a member of the royal family is one way to take over an entire country. If she's the crown princess, when her parrents die...you'd be king. All the other nobles and power players who might want to take over have probably considered how they might wed the princess too. Agreed fully.. Now to your problems: If you don't want to change some of your attitudes and lifestyle to have a chance to marry your beau, well then it's not love. You could get rid of your rival, sure..but why a princess, who surely has a dozen or more of wealthy suitors had to choose you over one of them? "let's see who will i marry: the rich noble who can offer me to live in luxuries for the rest of my life, or the poor adventurer dressed in dirt who sleeps on the ground?" Marrying is a serious thing and implies responsability, you have the duty of at least giving her a lifestyle like the one she's accustomed too.. There are a lot of ways to increase your reputation..a military campaing isn't the only one. You haven't been thinking in the long term till now, which is fine, because you hadn't too, but now is the time to begin.. In a Medieval world Money and friendships are the real key to power.. If you are doing some odd job for some noble, try thinking in a long term before asking for a reward.. I.e. Instead of gold, ask for some land..during the middle ages most territories were left unproducitve simply because nobles were too lazy to use them, since they didn't had the need for further income, being already rich. This way both you and noble profit more.. You because you are building a solid income (it's nothing of course compared to the money you earn during adventuring, BUT gives you status), and the noble because he will get rid of something he doesn't use neither need..thus in his eyes having a service for free. Probably he will be more likely to call YOU and not something else if he needs further assistance. Another way could be to use your Gold to buy a patent of nobility; it's not an uncommon for Kingdoms, baronies, etc.. That's because maintaing a court and having a luxurious lifestyle is outrageusly expensive (but nobles HAVE to do it or they will be shunned by their peers). This way they get money and they even earn a powerful retainer (remember that as a noble of lower rank, you are required to work for the benefit of the kingdom, barony etc, and to offer your assistance in dire need) BUT you have the the status and legitimacy you was looking for. Noone said love it's easy, and loving a princess certaintly isn't.. Bradipus.
Illithid13 12-08-05, 10:04 AM	Trying to stay AWAY from magical mind-control bits. For a couple of reasons. Well, they really arn't mind-controling, more mind-affecting. Just to point out symantics. It's not like I said to cast Dominate person or anything. 1) Raz has a Chaotic GOOD alignment. May mind-control enemies, but won't do so to allies (which includes princess, her family, and on a really really far branch the noble) technically, all that means is you wouldn't do the "plant the assassination of the king" idea becouse if not closely controled, it could be desasterous. As pointed out, CG doens't want ill to come to anyone that is their friend. Especially since it is for something that he is going to want really badly evenutally. Plus, he resents anyone forcing them (or others) into doing against their wishes (force marage anyone). Based upon this, I can see a CG character using a little sugestion now and again, especiall if it brings about the "freedom of choice" for the target of their love and devotion. 2) Elves and Enchantments... Remember that +2 save they have? Ehh, just hex the DM's dice... :P seriously though, this could be a problem... this is where luck comes in to play. 3) A couple of spell-slingers keep an eye on Raz SPECIFICALLY to make sure he doesn't get into trouble with magic (Law-heavy world where Raz is one helluva known chaotic element) Well, it only have verbal components, so apply silent spell to it, and you are golden... especially if you have been really good and not been causing any problems as of late so they won't be expecting it, and remember, he doesn't like authority... If you are still dead set against the use of magic (I'm of the mindset that a wizard's first resort is magic) but you are not just a wizard, but a rogue as well, I'd become "friends" with her betoathed. Find out what he likes, the things he desires the most and then try to find a way to convince him that he doens't want to go through with this aranged marrage. Who knows, he could be in the same situation as the princess is (and most likely is) as that is the way of these things. Maybe you can help him out too if he is in the same situation as the princess. Just make sure that you don't become too good of friends with him incase he wants to go through with the marrage. Hope that helps.
Rickiel 12-08-05, 12:21 PM	Okay, tonight I play Raz the Rogue-Mage in the original campaign that spawned him. This is it. I will take all that I have learned here and hope for the best. And make a memo to myself about getting a Girdle of Gender Changing. I will strive to keep my pals safe from laws that will be inevitably be broken. I will seek to become the fair lady's friend. I will seek to make peace, or at least a spar, with the nobleman. I will strive to be heroic. Going out of my bounds to do what is right and fair. I will stay away from the Bloodless War (Liberalists and Conservatives are worse than Tana'ri and Baatezu) I will seek to learn the spell Charm! I may not be strong, nor I may not be wealthy, nor am I any form of famous amidst nobility. BUT I WILL BE BRAVE! I SHALL BE HEROIC! I WILL NOT STEAL A HEART BUT GIVE MY OWN FOR THE SAKE OF LOVE!!! Of course since this game starts nearly around midnight any more advice before hand is appreciated. I doubt this lubby dubby affair will be resolved in one session. THANKS FOR REPLYING!
OctoberRaven 12-08-05, 01:03 PM	Remember, when all else fails, use Sleight of Hand to steal her bra. That way you at least have a *cough* moral victory.
Demonfey 12-08-05, 02:05 PM	And practice for being an Arcane Trickster (again)
ClutchAxe 12-08-05, 04:15 PM	Should have been a Paladin. The process would have been so much easier. Well, we all live and learn. Tsk tsk tsk. PS- Rogues usually have an easier time landing the princess with "Use Disguise" and "Bluff" for the first portion of the relationship, then making suttle changes as they progress and eventually "win" the love of thy "fair maiden" by slowly manipulating the relationship. Process can be long. But if the princess isn't comfortable with the process, just use "Move Silently" and "Hide" to put a love potion down her throat. Just a suggestion.
Rickiel 12-10-05, 02:21 PM	Should have been a paladin :confused: No....bad statement. I started the Rogue-mage not anticipating royal involvement. So no tsk tsk tsk'ing me. Well ClutchAxe, you say I should use my Disguise and Bluff for the first portion of the relationship. Care to elaborate? Cause at the time I read that I didn't get what you were hinting at. ----The session Results!----- Alright, had no love potions, no charm spells, no dominate spells, no love potions, next to no gold, and of course no love potions... Low Magic and Treasure world... So, I struck up conversation with the princess, whom it should be known I had yet to bow down to, and asked her how she felt about it. Apparantly she wasn't too bothered with it, though she did feel it somewhat disrespectful. I explained that I bow to no one whom I do not personally know. She seemed to like that. Diplomacy checks can be good! :) Her betrothed and I however, had a bit of a sparring match. I refrained from using my magic, which was bad, because I then got floored. On a related note, the DM delightfully informed me that the betrothed went from 5th level Fighter to 6th level fighter for defeated a CR 10 challenge. Glad I could help. ;) The gaming session would have had some more roleplaying, however we had two major battles and are nearing the end of our journey. Oh well, I will get to play tomarrow and try to resolve these delicious issues!
The White Sorcerer 12-10-05, 02:41 PM	Her betrothed and I however, had a bit of a sparring match. [SNIP] I then got floored. Excellent. Now you can get some pity points. "Oh, you poor thing. Here, let me tie your wounds with these pieces of my dress."
Demonfey 12-10-05, 03:47 PM	So, you going to initiate the "bachelor party" plan, or just let this one go.
Rickiel 12-10-05, 06:44 PM	Raz is definately not letting this one go! Though more info on wedding is still needed.
bradipus 12-12-05, 07:07 AM	[QUOTE="RICKIEL"] Her betrothed and I however, had a bit of a sparring match. I refrained from using my magic, which was bad, because I then got floored. On a related note, the DM delightfully informed me that the betrothed went from 5th level Fighter to 6th level fighter for defeated a CR 10 challenge. [QUOTE] Well, i'd have some words with your GM about that.. Since you weren't using magic, you obvously weren't a 10 CR, because you wasn't using all of your abilities... Bradipus.
ClutchAxe 12-16-05, 06:05 PM	Ok Rickiel, essentially what I was describing is the "If she doesn't love me, I'll MAKE her love me." Scenerio. What it comes down to, besides alignment, is what your character is capable of when it comes to manipulating another character (Or PC vs DM as we all like to think of it). If the rogue wants some, he has to go after it, hence the necessary rolls for Bluff and Disguise. If you are able to create what she wants, then you are also able to CHANGE what she wants, but you have to be smart about it. Once you get your foot in the door (which it sounds like you already have-good job) then you can start to mold her into what you want through suggestion, bring up points in conversation that you both can relate to, use empathetic responses (Bluff) to gain her trust in your emotions, get her to eventually see things "through the eyes of a tortured soul" (Again....Bluff) as you bring her opinions and thoughts closer to your own. Enslave her, bend her will to suit your needs! Make her your dog! And should that dog disobey it's master, then bend it's will until you eventually BREAK IT!!! bwahahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (deep breath) HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Or, like I said, sometimes a rogue has to do, what a rogue has to do.... (like roll move silently and hide to get to her bed, then dump a "Philter of Love" down her throat and wake her up to see your face). !BOOM! Instant Princess Lackey!!!
Chipper173 12-16-05, 08:16 PM	^Um...okay, that's kind of creepy. Fo' real, though. I guess it depends on how it turned out. What I'd do now, in the current set-up, is pull a Romeo-and-Juliet. Have her fake her death while you go far away. Then kill yourself when you come back and have her find your fresh body. Then roll a new character and do a better job of distributing wealth so that you get better gear. Then have the girl fall in love with this dude (Diplomacy is a good idea, try a paladin, high charisma and being a knight will help). Volia, princess loves you and you've got better gear. Or just let her be captured by the BBEG and swoop in and save her.
shmeck 12-16-05, 09:02 PM	http://www.fastseduction.com/ Forget making her toys, buying her flowers, or saving her life. Steal her away, get her alone, tease her, treat her like an annoying little sister, and drive her into a frenzy so she has no choice but to throw herself at you.
Salookanana 12-17-05, 12:19 AM	Don't know about your world, but one cant be married without a ring, can they? Or perhaps some other cerimonial item. Whatever the case, be sure to make it "Dissapear" so the engagment cant go through. After all, you are a Rogue Mage! Or you can KO the person who is supposed to do the cerimony, take their place, and read the ritual. But use magic to knockout/control the prince and instead of marring the prince and your loved, marry both of you, and escape in the confusion. Or just grab her and go! Just make sure she wouldnt kill you for that last one...
Chipper173 12-17-05, 09:11 AM	Or run in during the part in which the guy asks if anyone objects. In case you don't want to kill off your character for better equipment and bonuses.
Rickiel 12-17-05, 12:36 PM	Well Clutchaxe, tempting as it sounds, I don't think I'll try to MAKE her love me via bluffing. Diplomacy is working nice and fine. Unfortunately shmeck, at this point I think teasing the princess will land me in the dead-book faster than you can say ratatosk. Though I will keep that in mind. Just in case. Chipper173, I have absolutely no intentions whatsoever of having the Rogue-Mage commit suicide. It's rather counter-productive to becoming an Arcane Trickster and not to mention that I DO have my "foot in the door" so to speak. And also, doing a better job of distributing wealth? I am THE highest level player character in this campaign, CHARACTER LEVEL 10!!! And I have but TWO measly lil magic items. Two. +1 Bracers of Armor and Gloves of Dexterity +2. It has been a very fun, challenging, exciting, low-magic campaign. Yet somehow I don't think by dying and coming back as a paladin, knight in shining armor, will somehow get me a better chance of getting better equipment. Trust me on this. Though the one person who has two magic weapons, cape of resistance, and a few other things, keeps dying... And he's the lowest level character... Strange... MOVING ON! Salookanana, you are right about making thing's 'disappear'! Though with the guy's on our group it'll be all too easy to find. Find Object spell. Very useful/baneful to me. Though planting it on someone ELSE might be useful. KO'ing the priest. It's certainly a possibility, providing I can't talk him out of stalling it. Now coming in at the objections part...too cliche, let's go for... BEFORE the princess can even mouth I do! But after the nobleman does. Tricky timing I know. Especially if there are guards around.
Chipper173 12-18-05, 11:26 AM	Hey, can't blame me for wanting to get you better equipment. (It was a joke anyway.)
Missing Minds 12-18-05, 03:04 PM	I just thought of this, and I applogize if anyone already came up with this idea. Do we know if the noble has any love intrests, or if any other woman has an honest desire for him? I'm not talking wealth greed, power, etc. sort of desire for him, but an honest one. If you can find out if he does, or that they do, you could end up with a few allies in your quest for the princess.