Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sunai_Retsinis 09-27-06, 03:31 PM	Hello everyone, I (and the rest of the players) are in need of some good advice. Due to some bad luck (rolling for which creature in a devil-army we would encounter as we rode into a town in the warzone) we have encountered a pitfiend, the second highest in command of an invasion force from their plane. As we are level 8, we were easily defeated (read: knocked unconscious and captured for torture and questioning). Our party consists of a fighter 8, a sorcerer 8, a wizard3/fighter3/spellsword1/something else 1 and myself, a druid7/fighter1. I have the best diplomacy in the group with a total of +10 on the check. As a complicating matter, our dwarf fighter 8 has an demonic artifact (a sword forged from the soul of a balor I think) which is the only thing in our world which can defeat these devils. It unlocks powers as the dwarf advances in power. Taking hold of the sword gave him a level in half fiend I think. It is not known to the devils that we have this sword. Our first objective at the moment is to get the dwarf fighter with the sword out of the clutches of the pitfiend. Preferentially with the rest of the party as a second objective. Now, DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY ADVICE CONCERNING TREATING WITH DEVILS??? Our DM will be favoured to help us a very little bit, just for the sake of the campaign. If one or more escape/negotiate release or something like that, it can continue. I ask anyone to throw in some advice, as it is, obviously, badly needed. Thanks in advance! Sunai
Lord_Varos 09-27-06, 03:50 PM	Just the one bit of advice: Before you sign the contract, pretend you're the devil and imagine all of the ways he could twist the agreement. This is so essential, unless your DM just really wants you to get free.
JacksonCash 09-27-06, 03:53 PM	Also, as stated in the handy languages thread, hope some one can read infernal, and well.
Radijs 09-27-06, 04:02 PM	Forge your signature.
Sunai_Retsinis 09-27-06, 04:16 PM	So, all of you think it will wind down to some nifty contract business. As none of us know infernal, I will have to make it be written down in common. Does anyone have any experience with negotiating with a Pitfiend? Or does anyone have more suggestions about possible pitfalls (pun unintended!) or things which should be avoided? Forging a signature, doesn't that mean that one can just put anything there? None of us are lawfull (as the paladin died several sessions earlier), a lie to save us/the world would be easy, not? Sunai
kelvinaw273 09-27-06, 04:31 PM	It all depends on how convincing your cover stoiry is. They have captured you, you are small fry to them. They are likely to off simpl eultimatums to scum such as you, like "Join us or die!" Devils do go in for contracts, but your best bet is to convince them of how useful you could be against other devils. Devils being devils, they hate each other but are bound by rules. Operating outside those rules you could arrange for ... problems ... for their opposition.:D Just appeal to their darker nature ...
solbergb 09-27-06, 04:38 PM	I recommend "Beseecher" inflections in your Infernal, rather than using the "Commander" inflections. Then try and convince him it will be more fun to eat somebody that you don't like.
Always-Late 09-28-06, 01:27 AM	The thing to keep in mind: If the Pit Fiend really wanted the sword, you could all be dead before you can say Quickened Empowered Blasphemy. If you want to get away with the sword, then you need to give him something he wants more. This is the centerpiece of your negotiations. Considering that this is the only sword (that's bad campaign planning, I'm telling you) that can stop him, then you need to give him something he needs more than the only thing that can destroy him. Because he's in charge of whether the deal goes through or not, you need to make him happy. Now, things he might want: 1. The sword. This one is a duh. It's also probably what's going to happen, because really, he can just take the sword right now. 2. A more powerful sword. Good luck finding one. 3. Your immortal soul. 4. A pledge to serve demons and all that they stand for. Forever. 5. The assassination of major NPCs. This is handy. However, most NPCs you could kill, he could kill as well, so you need some extentuating circumstances. 6. Your family, sacrificed on an altar to unspeakable evils. This ties into 3 and 4. 7. Wholesale massacre of defenseless innocents. I mean, the pit fiend could do it himself, but it's more fun to see heroes doing it. See, he doesn't really care what happens to you. The end result of the negotiations is going to be a happy pit fiend. Hopefully one of the above will make him happy.
Sunai_Retsinis 09-28-06, 04:34 AM	The sword isn't really the only thing which can kill it. It could be done by ordinary means as well. (Just get to a high enough level and release all your fury on it, as is generally a workable way to do it) The sword is a soul of a balor forged into a blade, being pure evil. As the wielder (the dwarf in this case) wields it longer and increases in strength, the power of the sword increase it as well. At the moment it has only been awakened, but in the end it will become more and more powerfull. Thus, the sword is not the only way to kill it, it is just a terrific good means to do it with. We don't want it to fall into the hands of these devils, because we would be down a great usefull item, and the devils would be up the same. As I play a druid, I have some usefullness in my spells. If any DM reads this, how would you react to the proposition to allow my druid to cast a 7th level spell (he can only cast level 4 now) as a trade off to losing all spells at once. I mean that I would forge the energy of all my spells (level 1,2,3 and 4) into one spell of level 7. I would like to do so, as there is a great spell in the spell compendium: it is a sort of banishment of all outsiders of non-neutral alignment back to their homeplane. To up the save a great deal, would it be possible to fuel it with my own life force, say, trade 8 temporary CON damage for a +4 on the save DC? Does anyone have any experience with the spell itself: is it worth the trouble or not? Thanks in advance Sunai
Darakhoranon 09-28-06, 05:09 AM	Don't even think about it, Sunai! As far as I understand you, your campaign revolves at least partly around this army of fiends and your heroes defeating it. You said your party isnīt even close to being able to hurt the demons/devils/whatever seriously. But even so, supposing your DM allows this trade-off you suggested, what would happen? This spell might work - on the rank-and-file troops... And after that, your druid would be near death, the pit fiend still there and REALLY annoyed, and your DM would have to rewrite the rest of the campaign... Just forget it. As an idea for later, keep it in mind. After you`ll have destroyed/banished the fiendish armies general/officers, you`ll still be faced with a horde of fiends. Then your druid can show everyone that his long preparations (and possibly some additional adventures...) were really worth the time and effort. Your idea has a lot of potential, so don`t waste it. Save it for the grand finale. To adress your immediate needs: kelvinaw273 already said it. Offer the pit fiend your services in getting his personal enemies (read: closest allies) into trouble. And maybe your dwarven friend has another option: If I understood you correctly, he is slowly becoming a half-fiend. He could offer his services as a mortal agent... Later on, he can always turn on his "masters" - when you all have a chance to survive the resulting fight.
Sunai_Retsinis 09-28-06, 07:57 AM	Thanks for the advise. You are right, of course. Vanquishing personal enemies, especially if they belong to the invading devils, would be nice. As the devils enter our world slowly, one at the time, through a portal, closing this portal would be incredibly usefull. Does anyone have an idea how to do this? Sunai
runestar 09-28-06, 08:52 AM	Go ahead...who knows, after a few centuries in the abyss, you just might be able to work your way up from dretch to demon lord...:P
Cifer 09-28-06, 09:42 AM	Go ahead...who knows, after a few centuries in the abyss, you just might be able to work your way up from dretch to demon lord... Since they are trafficking with devils, becoming a big one in the abyss might take a long while indeed. Ok, my personal opinion: Sorry, but you're screwed. You are dealing with a creature that can outthink you in legalese about five times over, you're not capable of simply beating it and you're not in a position to give it anything it wants that it could not just take by force. You are prisoners, meaning that you can't dictate anything in the resulting contract, probably not even its language.
Zemyla 09-28-06, 10:09 PM	At level 8/9, your negotiations with the pit fiend should go something like "Oh, please, please don't kill us."
Realms of Chaos 09-29-06, 12:05 AM	It seems obvious to me where the awakened sword is going, but that may be a matter of speculation. If your DM planned it out, there are only a limited number of ways that the situation can go. Situation 1: The sword possesses the dwarf, turning them into a fiend. It is all your fault. Situation 2: The sword becomes a creature in its own right, no longer needing the dwarf (and possibly consuming them). It is all your fault. Situation 3: the storyline ends up with you ending the blood war one way or another, causing a near apocalyptic war as the remaining fiendish race (with the possible exception of the Yugoloths, who have stayed out of the blood war) turn their full power onto fighting the forces of good. It is all your fault. Generally speaking, a DM doesn't toss in a relevant fiendish artifact that advances the character and weapon as its owner gains levels without something storyline related in mind. It is generally the oldest curse in the book. To test for these possibilities, shove the dwarf in front of you and confess that they have the sword so that they will destroy it or (best-case cenario) try to take over the nine hells with it, dividing (and weakening the power of Baator, something that it sounds as though you were supposed to do. Also tell them that the dwarf had been tainted by it (so that they will be promptly killed and nothing evil will spring out of him later after stewing for a couple of years). If the DM does not allow this or threatens you with a DM's wrath, you can almost bet that one of the three scenarios above will eventually come to pass. Even if this is allowed, a quick-thinking DM would allow the following possibilities. Situation 4: The Sword doesn't sound as though it is the only thing that can kill devils (or even the only thing that can kill pit fiends). It is possible that it is the only thing that can kill something far worse, like asmodeus, that is currently being revived/created and will wake up eventually. It is all your fault. Situation 5: Whatever is possessing the dwarf has had enough time to develop and was only waiting for someone to kill the mortal to let it out. It is all your fault. As is, it appears that your pretty messed up either way, unless your dm is a bad improviser that doesn't visit the boards and read this. My advise: keep the nature of the sword and its effects on the dwarf secret. Try to get a job as slaves (the DM will invariably free you) and secretly meet the prerequisites of a blighter (complete arcane) just in case. If it turns out that the Dwarf becomes possessed, switch sides (the DM would likely give large bonuses to the dwarf so they could challenge the rest of the party. With you on his side, the other 2 party members would quickly fall). Note that this switch in alliegance would change the druids alignment but not cost them their abilities as their spellcasting is not alignment/deity-based. After the battle, start taking levels in blighter. If the sword becomes an enemy in its own right, keep fighting alongside the team. The above advice may be the most cynnical that you are going to get but it is also IMO most likely to keep you alive.
The Simbul 09-29-06, 01:05 AM	1) A EL 8-9 level party should never "randomly" encounter a Pit Fiend. The DM should either be using EL 8-9 encounter tables, or he should steer you into areas/dungeons/warzones where the random encounters are suitable for your level. If a CR 20 Pit Fiend is fighting in a warzone, then it should be kept busy by CR 20 NPCs on the opposing side, while you guys focus on battles appropriate to your party level. 2) Negotiations in D&D are resolved by an opposed Diplomacy check, with the winner having the "upper hand" (see the skill description in the PHB). Both you and the Pit Fiend have a diplomacy modifier of +10, however he may be entitled to a circumstance bonus or you may incur a circumstance penalty due to the fact that you are captured and at his mercy. If anyone else in the group has ranks in Diplomacy, they can use the aid another action to give you a +2 circumstance bonus, but there is nothing to stop the Pit Fiend from bantering with you individually, or from having his allies there to aid his diplomacy check as well. 3) This is the part where everyone misses the Half-Elf Bard. You know, the one character every party hates because she neutralizes every intelligent combat encounter vis-a-vis a +45 diplomacy check modifier gained with 28 point buy, self-crafted standard wealth for 9th level, long-duration buff spells, and using only the material in the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, Complete Adventurer, and Races of Destiny :D
epifreak 09-29-06, 02:12 AM	Hmm...I'd say commit suicide now and save your immortal soul. Barring DM intervention, you're pretty much screwed.
runestar 09-29-06, 05:22 AM	Try calling "Pazuzu" 3 times...:D
Drag0nUL 09-29-06, 05:56 AM	One question: when you encountered the pit fiend, did you have the chance to flee? Because if you did, you are now suffering the consequences of your unwise decision to stand and fight. If you didn't get the chance to avoid the battle, it means your DM has prepared a way to get out of this, because, normally you would be screwed. There isn't much a party of lvl 8-9 chars can ofer to a CR 20 devil, who almost leads the demon armies. The only thing I can't think of is a task that requires non-evil beings to perform....like getting into the stronghold of a paladin order and steal something/assasinate someone.
Sunai_Retsinis 09-29-06, 07:21 AM	Well, I'll tell you all how it went. We were moving south to a village we had left well fortified and defended so it should be able to survive a small attack. As we arrived near the northern gate, the city was either burned or still burning, and almost everyone was slaughtered. Trying to surprise the assailants by coming through the closed northern gate, the druid (wildshape into a bird of prey) and the dwarf (on a lizard able to climb vertical) moved over the wall to open the gate for the other party members. When I was flying over the wall, I wasn't noticed (or at least not considered harmfull), but when the dwarf was up, the trouble began. It turned out that one of the main armies of the invading devils had attacked the town. Of a random roll which would indicate which kind of creature(s) was/were near us and would noticed us (done from a self made table by the DM himself) we got the worst luck. A Pitfiend. :eek: The DM himself was scared to, so he was benevolent to us (more or less) As he turned, he threw out a power word stun on the dwarf, thinking I (the wildshaped druid) was nothing. With his rediculous Initiative he was first after this surprise round (it really was a surprise :devil: ). He moved over the wall, and feared the other two party members on their horses. From then on, everything went for the worst. In the end, we all ended up being feared, slapped unconscious and taken to :confused: as the session ended. I have to say to the defense of our DM that he is a good DM. He likes this kind of utterly random stuff to be rolled. It may just have been that the Pitfiend was on the other side of the town, and we would never have seen it. I believe that the idea was that we would fight some lower devils, like a bearded devil and a few chain devils. We are quite up to that. Because the die he rolled, we were all surprised. Tomorrow we are going to continue our session, so I will be able to tell you more on sunday or monday, whenever I have time. I believe the DM has terminated the session (it was dinner time) so he could make some things up throughout the week so we could have a way to get out. Even though his reference to the torture section of the Book of Vile Darkness :schemes: didn't please me in the least ...
Drag0nUL 09-29-06, 09:15 AM	So it was an unavoidable defeat...if your DM put the Pit Fiend on the possible encounter list he probably had something in mind if you actually encounter it.At lest you must hope it is so.
Kobold_Avenger 09-29-06, 11:01 AM	Consider killing your dm....
Deathstalker 09-29-06, 11:51 AM	Well, I don't really know if this would work, but here's something you could try; since you're asking for help negotiating and you're dealing with devils, I'm assuming at some point there will be a contract, have each party member sign another party member's name on the contract. The devil has no prior documentation against which to verify your signature is correct, so as long as all the names are there, it's entirely possible he won't know that you've each signed someone else's name as long as all the names appear on the contract.
epifreak 09-29-06, 02:09 PM	Well, I don't really know if this would work, but here's something you could try; since you're asking for help negotiating and you're dealing with devils, I'm assuming at some point there will be a contract, have each party member sign another party member's name on the contract. The devil has no prior documentation against which to verify your signature is correct, so as long as all the names are there, it's entirely possible he won't know that you've each signed someone else's name as long as all the names appear on the contract. Doesn't that constitute a bluff or forgery check? Odds are that only one party member would have that.
solbergb 09-29-06, 03:11 PM	I don't recommend attempting to bluff a pit fiend. All of its social skills are through the roof, well beyond what a 9th level party will have. Entertaining it is your best hope. Meanwhile your DM who created the random encounter chart needs to figure out the motivations of this monster and find some use for your party to him that doesn't involve simply eating your souls and enslaving you for all eternity. Cause that's pretty much the default case.
Andorxor 09-29-06, 04:03 PM	"Look there is 3-headed-celestial-tarrasque behind you " and than run
Deathstalker 09-29-06, 04:09 PM	Doesn't that constitute a bluff or forgery check? Odds are that only one party member would have that. I don't really know. Like I said, you don't have to forge anything, just write or sign someone else's name. It can look completely different from that character's actual signature, but what's the devil going to compare it to for accuracy, the signature on your drivers license? If he doesn't know what your sig looks like and I write your name, how's he going to know the difference? Once everything is signed, all he should know is that everyone's name is on the paper, not necessarily that everyone signed their correct name. It might be bluff, but then again, you're not really lying to him as far as I know. I mean, if someone comes up to me and says "sign here" and hands me paper and I sign it "John Hancock" I'm not lying to him. Like I said. No idea if it would work and I'm probably oversimplifying things, but it seems to me like it might be okay.
2nd Ed Paladin 09-29-06, 05:15 PM	re the fake signatures: I don't have a 26 INT and WIS like a pit fiend or anything, but I think I would get some collateral before letting some adventures that I don't need and can kill at a whim out of my prison to do a task that I could do easier. Even with a contract. The only 'realistic' option is for your DM to allow you to escape the prison or deus-ex-machina a rescuer.
Callista 09-29-06, 05:59 PM	Why not find a way to distract the pit fiend? Act all defiant at first... then once they start to intimidate and/or torture you, "let something slip" that requires the pit fiend's presence elsewhere. Does he have a rival you can accuse of some sort of plot? Maybe there's a fight somewhere, or a great opportunity he can't pass up... Mind you, this takes quite a lot of bluffing; but if you work it right, you can get some decent circumstance bonuses because it looks like they tortured the information out of you. (This is all supposing you have someone with the guts to do something like that. Devils' interrogations are no walk in the park.) If you can get him to leave whatever stronghold he's holding you in, maybe you can escape and sneak your way out of his antimagic or whatever is preventing you from teleporting. Because after the pit fiend has left, you may be able to defeat his flunkies... while he's there, he can be easily informed of your escape and just teleport to where you are. But if you can manage it... and if the pit fiend stays distracted long enough (and doesn't get the news that you're escaping)... and if his minions aren't powerful enough to kill you... Then you might not have to make a deal with him at all.
ClydusPower 09-29-06, 06:42 PM	Have you guys thought about praying? No joke. You have been taken by a Pit Fiend. Has there ever been a better time to pray? It not only is a out for you guys, but the DM too.
Kresalak 09-29-06, 08:04 PM	Ask your DM if maybe this Pit Fiend, as an officer in the army (possibly the general) is the honorable kind of Lawful Evil instead of the politician kind.
Maekrix_Waere 09-30-06, 02:04 AM	Remember, you only have to run faster then the slowest party member. Failing that, and if you still have the sword in your possession, and if that sword truly is possessed by a demon, then my last recommendation would be to have the rest of the party run, while that character raises the sword above his head, says in a powerful voice, "Great Demon sealed inside this sword, I give me body up to you," and then impales himself on that sword. With any luck, that demon will be released, proceed to kill the Pit Fiend, and then kill a large multitude of other devils before they all gang up and kill him. While this spectacle is going on, sneak back over to the party member's corpse, grab him, and then run him to the nearest cleric for a Ressurection spell. (Honestly, even I can't tell if I'm being sarcastic on this one or not) Honestly, thats all I can add to what's already been said.
Sunai_Retsinis 09-30-06, 02:42 AM	In a few hours I will play, so you'll hear from me shortly how it all went. If it does go wrong, I will ask the DM for how it should have been done Thanks for all the advise! Sunai
The Simbul 09-30-06, 02:44 AM	I don't recommend attempting to bluff a pit fiend. All of its social skills are through the roof, well beyond what a 9th level party will have.The Pit Fiend normally has the potential for social skills through the roof, yet he doesnt have alot of focus in that area. The Pit Fiend has 0 ranks in Diplomacy, his +10 modifier for that skill is a result of his +8 CHA bonus and a +2 synergy bonus from his ranks in Bluff. In addition, he doesnt have a Sense Motive modifier at all, I.E. its a simple +8 untrained check from his WIS bonus. His ranks in social skills are entirely based on Bluff and Intimidate.
Cifer 09-30-06, 11:03 PM	Because after the pit fiend has left, you may be able to defeat his flunkies... while he's there, he can be easily informed of your escape and just teleport to where you are. I'm afraid the problem there is named "Greater teleport at will" - it's useable by about half of all devils, meaning that if the characters are truly important enough to be tracked, about every mid-ranking devil can teleport to the pit fiend.
Archmage_Vall 10-01-06, 03:44 AM	"Say, aren't those 3 guys behind you with bows pointed at your head Solars?" Then run.
Amon_WinterfallIV 10-01-06, 04:42 AM	You've got nothing the PitFiend is not going to be able to take on its own, and its got CR 10ish servants running around anyhow. It most certainly can't expect you all to do what it wants; it submitted you to torture! You are about 95% screwed at this point; you need a natural 20 of a shot of getting out of this one. The Pit Fiend probably can't personally guard you (Although sending you to Hell is probably game over), so you might be able to break out when its over. The problem is that you've been tortured and denied of all gear, and are clearly playing in the middle of a deadly situation. With a bunch of damage on your characters and no gear, a break-out is nigh on impossible. You clearly need help--this is grounds for a divine favor if ever there is one. Betrayal to the Devils is not viable, even as a "Save my Butt" strategy, as they have no reason not to kill you all. Good Luck, I'm sure that this was horrible odds appearing in the worst possible way. TPK is imminent.
Thanqol 10-01-06, 07:23 AM	The Pit Fiend normally has the potential for social skills through the roof, yet he doesnt have alot of focus in that area. The Pit Fiend has 0 ranks in Diplomacy, his +10 modifier for that skill is a result of his +8 CHA bonus and a +2 synergy bonus from his ranks in Bluff. In addition, he doesnt have a Sense Motive modifier at all, I.E. its a simple +8 untrained check from his WIS bonus. His ranks in social skills are entirely based on Bluff and Intimidate. And a Pit Fiend needs anything exept Intimidate and Bluff? He's not Tuxedo d'Smooth. He's the guy who makes you wet your pants by breathing heavily, and can cheerfully lie and betray you. Against level 8-9 characters, his negotiations would go like: "TREMBLE, PUNY MORTALS, AND DESPAIR!! DOOM HAS COME TO YOUR WORLD!! YOU WILL GROVEL BEFORE ME AND PLEDGE YOUR IMMORTAL SOULS TO MY FIERY ARMY OF THE DAMNED, OR I SHALL EAT YOUR CORPSES SEASONED LIGHTLY WITH NUTMEG!!"
Sunai_Retsinis 10-01-06, 09:12 AM	To Thanqol: I don't believe a devil will tell you blatant lies. From its lawfull side, it would focus more on different interpretations of the words you think he said but he means differently. Like making you sign a contract, wherein it promises not to kill you, but, after signing, uses you as a playdoll for his minions in a fortress somewhere, or exacts other, non-lethal, punishments on you. You still are alive, but whether that is good, I don't know. As promised, here is my recap from yesterday. As a new player and the guy playing the sorcerer (who in the end was not captured by the pitfiend, it turned out) were not not present, we didn't do very much. The three which were captured (the dwarf fighter, the human druid and the human fighter/wizard/spellsword/something else) were put into a small cellar. There was no door, but a sort of oozelike thing (not an ooze itself, but it did feel and look like a jelly-pudding) was blocking our exit. The fighter tried to exit it, but after he put his arm in, it got stuck and it started to deal cold damage. (I don't know whether this is self-made or from the BoVD). After two days, we were taken one by one by a big guy who just pushed the black ooze-stuff away. Each of us was tortured by several means, which I will not describe here (it is not the mature board). After all three of us were back in our prison, we terminated the session. I believe the idea was some sort of rescue mission, but the people who would have to take part in it (the sorcerer and the new player) were not there. It wasn't a great play, usually we do more. We now have to wait three weeks to play again. Sunai
epifreak 10-01-06, 03:17 PM	And a Pit Fiend needs anything exept Intimidate and Bluff? He's not Tuxedo d'Smooth. He's the guy who makes you wet your pants by breathing heavily, and can cheerfully lie and betray you. Against level 8-9 characters, his negotiations would go like: "TREMBLE, PUNY MORTALS, AND DESPAIR!! DOOM HAS COME TO YOUR WORLD!! YOU WILL GROVEL BEFORE ME AND PLEDGE YOUR IMMORTAL SOULS TO MY FIERY ARMY OF THE DAMNED, OR I SHALL EAT YOUR CORPSES SEASONED LIGHTLY WITH NUTMEG!!" Nutmeg is an extremely curious choice of spice for meats; it's really more of a desert spice. Perhaps you should go with Oregano.
Cifer 10-01-06, 03:27 PM	And a Pit Fiend needs anything exept Intimidate and Bluff? He's not Tuxedo d'Smooth. He's the guy who makes you wet your pants by breathing heavily, and can cheerfully lie and betray you. Against level 8-9 characters, his negotiations would go like: "TREMBLE, PUNY MORTALS, AND DESPAIR!! DOOM HAS COME TO YOUR WORLD!! YOU WILL GROVEL BEFORE ME AND PLEDGE YOUR IMMORTAL SOULS TO MY FIERY ARMY OF THE DAMNED, OR I SHALL EAT YOUR CORPSES SEASONED LIGHTLY WITH NUTMEG!!" Wow, two quotes in one fiendish speech... I'm impressed, although I was somehow waiting for the Tremble and Despair bit..
Callista 10-01-06, 05:01 PM	I'm afraid the problem there is named "Greater teleport at will" - it's useable by about half of all devils, meaning that if the characters are truly important enough to be tracked, about every mid-ranking devil can teleport to the pit fiend. Well, obviously, you'd have to lie really carefully, so that he doesn't tell all of his subordinates where he's going (either because it could result in him looking bad, or because he's in too much of a hurry to do so)...
The Simbul 10-02-06, 02:25 AM	And a Pit Fiend needs anything exept Intimidate and Bluff?He needs Sense Motive to see through a Bluff check. He needs a better Diplomacy modifier than the PCs to gain the upper hand in negotiations (which is what the scenario presented by the OP is calling for).
Amon_WinterfallIV 10-02-06, 02:39 AM	He needs Sense Motive to see through a Bluff check. He needs a better Diplomacy modifier than the PCs to gain the upper hand in negotiations (which is what the scenario presented by the OP is calling for). That's true. But Diplomacy calls for trying to make a deal, and sorry, the pit fiend needs a very good reason not to simply crack your heads off. Yes, the Pit Fiend might be very beatable in a straight up negotation, but anything that would cost him anything from you can instead be had for free at the point of a whip. This is either going to be very good, or its going to be a TPK.
epifreak 10-02-06, 10:34 AM	He needs Sense Motive to see through a Bluff check. He needs a better Diplomacy modifier than the PCs to gain the upper hand in negotiations (which is what the scenario presented by the OP is calling for). Maybe true, but this is one of those situations that calls for those wonderful situational modifiers. I'd argue at least a +10 since, as the last post says, nothing's stopping him from just taking whatever he wants.
The Simbul 10-04-06, 06:05 PM	Maybe true, but this is one of those situations that calls for those wonderful situational modifiers. I'd argue at least a +10 since, as the last post says, nothing's stopping him from just taking whatever he wants. I never said he would not get a circumstance bonus (and/or the PC's would get a circumstance penalty), its just a matter that the far lower level PCs have a base diplomacy modifier that equals out to his.
Sunai_Retsinis 10-09-06, 03:27 PM	Well everybody, thanks for all the replies and the trembling good fun ... Sadly, we will never know what happened with the party. We had to quit the campaign as the DM was too frustrated. For the last few months he didn't quite have the heart into it, and he felt it was time to pass the DM job around. Now I have it, and I am going for a very different campaign. No more devils and demon artifacts. We're going Giants ... Again, thanks for the discussion. See you all in another threat Sunai