Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pyke_Moonshadow 11-21-06, 01:33 PM	We are currently playing the Shackled city adventure. The first adventure saw my character die 3 times. The last time he was not retrievable. The party decided we really needed someone to provide healing (since we had no bard or divine casters and potions and wands were scarce) so they asked me to make a cleric. I had never played a cleric in 3rd edition as I am not big on divine casters but I figured I would try one out. Now, heavy into adventure #2 I have come to the conclusion that my instincts were right and I don't like divine casters. Having this character leave is not an option so I can't make a new one. The party would not survive a fight without him. With him we have gone from multiple TPKs per adventure to just a character dead here and there. Plus for continuity reasons the DM would prefer we try and keep everyone with the same characters. What I need is advice from any die hard cleric players on how to have fun with the character. What made the cleric fun for you to play?
Toloran 11-21-06, 01:47 PM	We are currently playing the Shackled city adventure. The first adventure saw my character die 3 times. The last time he was not retrievable. The party decided we really needed someone to provide healing (since we had no bard or divine casters and potions and wands were scarce) so they asked me to make a cleric. I had never played a cleric in 3rd edition as I am not big on divine casters but I figured I would try one out. Now, heavy into adventure #2 I have come to the conclusion that my instincts were right and I don't like divine casters. Having this character leave is not an option so I can't make a new one. The party would not survive a fight without him. With him we have gone from multiple TPKs per adventure to just a character dead here and there. Plus for continuity reasons the DM would prefer we try and keep everyone with the same characters. What I need is advice from any die hard cleric players on how to have fun with the character. What made the cleric fun for you to play? Question: How do you play your cleric and what domains did you pick? That would help immensely.
Pyke_Moonshadow 11-21-06, 02:08 PM	Cleric of Pelor. Healing and sun domains. I play him as an optimistic and helpful person that has compasion for everything but necromancers and undead. As far as combat goes I do the typical buff and bash.
Toloran 11-21-06, 02:36 PM	Cleric of Pelor. Healing and sun domains. I play him as an optimistic and helpful person that has compasion for everything but necromancers and undead. As far as combat goes I do the typical buff and bash. See, thats the problem: You went for the stereotypical cleric. The trick to enjoy playing a cleric is to think outside the box sometimes (to use a cliche). You could have gone a neutral cleric, chosen to side with good for the purpose of having spontaneous casting of cure spells, and then gone the way of the necromancer (since I believe neutral clerics can do both if you do it right). The trick is to do something outside the norm. You could also try preparing more summon mosnter spells and go the summoner route (and then buff your summoned monsters as well). Just remember, since you are a good cleric you can always sacrifice a prepared spell to cast a cure spell of an equivalent level. So you never have to prepare cure spells and can focus on preparing other spells. Also, just because you are a good cleric, it doesn't mean you can't cast inflict spells on evil enemies. You just can't cast them spontaneously. Another way is to take up a prestige class. Which you pick really depends on where you want to go with your character (and what you prefer to do). If you have complete arcane and complete mage you could take up a warlock level and then go into Elderich Disciple (although your alignment probably won't allow it). You could also take up some arcane spellcaster levels and then go into the mystic theurge prestige class.
YamiSouru 11-21-06, 03:28 PM	well you went for the stereotype..that right away is something you should change. But for how you can make him enjoyable at this point? give him a few quircks that set him apart from the norm. Like you said he likes to help people correct? well how about as part of his personality he cant stand when people are completely incompetent and has to catch himself from saying something he shouldnt "What were you THINKING putting that THERE you IDIOT!" Give him a hobby that effects the way he deals with things. For example you could say he likes to dance, so you give him lighter armor and focus him a bit on being gracefull and more or less "dancing" into combat and what not. Tumble skill would be nice here. last but not least give him a split personality or make him bi-polar. Either of those could make any normall sunshine and lollipops cleric more interesting because you dont know when he'll go from bright and cheerfull to bringing forth a rage only a beer adled dwarf could normally bring about.:D
Whisper_Swiftblade 11-21-06, 03:36 PM	look clearics give you so many options you should never realy have a problem with them, if sun and healing are not your thing switch one or more of them for something elce. when life gives you clearics, you make clearics with domain fire. you need to stop being this guy :angel:, and start being this guy :mage:. Or at least become the combanation.
Pyke_Moonshadow 11-21-06, 03:56 PM	I was just thinking about it and I can't EVER remember playing a cleric before. Wow. I have played a druid but that was back in 1st edition when I was in high school. Maybe it is just inexperience that is bothering me. I just am not feeling challenged I guess. I tried to come up with something interesting but everytime I did fellow players would groan about another one of "those" characters. I tend to make characters that are interesting to me but overall sub-optimal. My last character was the party leader and his inability to tank effectively got most of the party killed when he was expected to be a tanker. So I made a basic cleric to be the heal monkey and now I am stuck as to how to play him in a way that I would find fun without having the rest of the party hate him.
THETUNNELRAT 11-21-06, 03:57 PM	I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of the posters here the main problem here is you play what I call a Heal B#t#c. A cleric that only goal in life and thats to keep the party alive you know what maybe the problem is the rest of your so called party. You fell obligated to keep their sorry butts alive taking their responsibility to do it their selves away from them try what the other people here are talking about, and it is possibility for them to play smart and live. I was in a party of four fighters awhile back and we did really good jest by playing smart and not telling someone to take up a role they didn't like. The other thing is Clerics can be cool if you do what you want to do ,and not what they(DM or Players) want you to do. I am playing Half-Aquatic elf Cleric/Ranger of Deep Sashelas soon and I know if I didn't the rest of them would be fine. Good luck in whatever you decide
Azezel 11-21-06, 04:05 PM	Here is my new Cleric, whome I will be playing soon: Galatea, Elf Cleric of Joramy (Goddess of Fire, Quarrels, Anger and Volcanoes) with Fire and Wrath domains. PHB II variant, she casts Fire domain spells spontaniously instead of Cure spells. and the Domain Focus (Fire) feat gives her +1 caster level to Fire domain spells. This character looses a little in terms of raw healig power, but at the start of the day, simply load up with Cure spells and whenever you find something nasty, kill it with Fire. Then use any healing that remains to help the party. (Or just buy a wand of CLW/Lesser Vigour). Honestly - She worships the goddess of Anger and is by divine order commanded to go forth and incinerate (she's an alchemist to that end). In role play terms, it is her personal anger that powers her spontanious Fire spells. Now doesn't that sound fun? The great thing about Clerics is that, ideally they should be the last class to be stereotyped. have a look in the Complete Divine, there are a couple of dozen gods or more. all of them need Clerics and all their Clerics will be markedly different to one another. One of those gods must appeal to you like Joramy apeals to me. How about Fharlanghn - for my money he is the most flavourfull, nay awsome god in the core rules. I mean, he's the god of roads. Try playing a Cleric of Fharlanghn, and whenever someone mentions anywhere in the campaign setting, you say 'I know a very decent inn in X' or 'I got robbed passing through Y once, ghastly place'. Or maybe Wee Jas, you could play a Cleric of Wee Jas who is just so Goth. Write some poetry about the shadows in your soul. Spell the word 'Vampire' with a 'y'. Above all, tell everyone that they do not understand you. Or maybe Shayanara Flaxenstrand, Gnome Goddess of love, whose Clerics, legend has it, are trained in the arts of the bedroom. Or do the oposite, and play a Cleric who seems to be at odds with their deity's philosophy. Like my Cleric of Joramy. You will never meet a more calm and serene person than Galatea. Why? Her powers are fuelled by anger, so she has to keep calm, to bottle up her rage until there is a worthwhile target for it. Pelor is cool and all, but serriously, when you play a bard, do you go for a Half-Elf with a lute, or do you do something a bit more interesting and have the time of your life playing Durn, the Dwarven bagpipe player? Olidamarra is always looking for a few Neutral men...
JasonOrlandoHawk 11-21-06, 04:06 PM	So many applicable questions, so little time: 1) What kind of characters do you normally play? Tanks? Arcane casters? Experts? That's going to affect what will make this character "enjoyable" for you. Fair warning, if your an expert (rogue/bard) player, you may have a harder time adjusting to the Cleric. However, if tanks and casters are your thing... :D 2) Has your DM kicked you where it counts for no apparent reason? Clerics are fun for two reasons: Casting in Armor & I Don't Fear Undead. However, many DMs "balance" certain classes, and in so doing, really just make a class unplayable. Some DMs, for example, love to neuter spellcasting. Suddenly, all casters (the Cleric included) are crying. Other DMs just don't use Undead. If that's the case, your in trouble. Is it a DM problem? 3) See if your DM will let you take the Strength Domain, rather than the Healing Domain. The healing domain is rather weak compared to other domains you could have selected. (+1 Caster Level to healing spells is nice, but limiting your Domain Spell Slot to spells that you can normally lose a spell to cast anyways... not that great of a design.) 4) PrC's: Radiant Servant of Pelor (Complete Divine) :D , & Combat Medic (Tome of Battle) :bow: 5) Pick up a personality. If you're going stereotype, go full stereotype. Pick up a King James Bible and practice littering your speech with "thee," "thou," and "didst," along with other Archaic English words. (Think Cyan from Final Fantasy 3 (American Numbering).) Make the personality STAND OUT a bit. Remember, preachers (typically) have a high charisma and make excellent speakers. Come up with religious taunts to use against your foes. 6) Remember, you're playing something new. Allow yourself time to adjust. I don't play Experts (rogues, bards) to often, and I recently started playing a solid rogue build. It took me a while to get used to it. They just play different from my usual Caster Builds. However, now I'm having a grand time with my Halfling Rogue Alton Leagallow, no wait, I mean Underhill. Wait, you've heard bad things about Underhills... Did I say Underhill? I meant Tosscobble. I once got kicked out of an Underhill wedding because I insulted a Leagallow... that's it! See, now it's second nature, even if it was a drag before.
Pyke_Moonshadow 11-21-06, 04:18 PM	I like playing gish builds of melee and magic BUT I dislike buffs and summoning spells. I love direct damage (I know it is weak and all). Well, I was planning on taking the warpriest for a few levels and then becoming a RSoPelor. Then I would have 4 domains.
Gemmalah 11-21-06, 04:39 PM	I have heard, 'oh god i'm left with the cleric' from whomever is the last person to pick a class is quite often. why? i'm sure other classes can heal, and if you don't wanna play one of those i'm sure a sor/wiz would be able to buff the party tank so much he/she won't need so much healing. I'm a Bard right now and cure light wounds isn't so far away, plus with all the buffing spells you can do battles can be over with less fuss. (all hail inspire courage) or perhaps the party should invest in better armour! :P
Toloran 11-21-06, 05:05 PM	I have heard, 'oh god i'm left with the cleric' from whomever is the last person to pick a class is quite often. why? i'm sure other classes can heal, and if you don't wanna play one of those i'm sure a sor/wiz would be able to buff the party tank so much he/she won't need so much healing. I'm a Bard right now and cure light wounds isn't so far away, plus with all the buffing spells you can do battles can be over with less fuss. (all hail inspire courage) or perhaps the party should invest in better armour! :P Wizards really needs to make more varied healers (specifically, class that can spontaniously heal). Expeically psionic healers.
Elemental_Elf 11-21-06, 05:46 PM	I think the biggest problem is you let yourself be tempted by the whining of your team mates. Seriously if THEY are FORCING YOU to play a Cleric YOU should be able to play what ever type of Cleric YOU want and they should worship the very ground you walk on for even considering to use heal spells on them! Seriously, they were the ones who wanted you to play a Cleric (not a bad class mind you, one of my favorites), which goes against your play style. Why didn't any of them step up and become a Cleric? Or even a Druid? I mean seriously, they realized they had a problem and shoved it off on you. So, do as some in our community say: Take advantage of what others will not play. To do this I'd start charging, in favors, loot, money, etc. for your healing. I mean if they don't want to fork over the dough for Potions and they don't want to bulk up UMD for Cure Spells, than they should cow tow to you, not visa versa. You are the one who stepped up for the rest of the party and took a class no one else wanted, so they should have to pay for your services. Now your fellow party member may object to this and try to coerce you into healing them by threatening to kill your character. Well you simply reply with this: "Go ahead, kill my character, I don't care. Just know that I won't roll up another Cleric if you kill this one." That oughta put them in their places. Of course all of this is a tad extreme... So perhaps asking your DM to allow you to choose a different God/Philosophy and new Domains. Explain to him that you have never played a Cleric and the only reason you chose to be one was for the greater good of the group. Explain that you aren't having fun with the character and would like to change him. If that doesn't work, than start charging for healing spells lol. As for better domains you could choose, I'd go with Fire, seeing as how you like Gish Builds. As for the second, I'd suggest Strength, War or Destruction if you want to melee more or Luck if you tend to get bad rolls. Your personality wouldn't have to change too much, you could still like to help people and do good in the world, just now you can take more of a proactive role in the helping to rid the world of Evil. Also what alignment is the arcane caster in your party? There's a feat in the Complete Divine called Arcane Disciple that would allow him access to Healing Spells if he were of the same alignment as a God with the Healing Domain.
YamiSouru 11-21-06, 07:48 PM	Hey if all else fails have your charactor take the feets and such so that you can become a drunken master, i can hardly think of a odder scene. A cleric of pelor going drunken master on someone :P
Salla 11-21-06, 07:54 PM	I have varied enough tastes in characters that the only things I could see being handed to play that I wouldn't enjoy playing would be a Druid, Ranger, or Bard ... that said ... If you don't want to be a Cleric, don't be a Cleric. The DM should take the party composition into account when designing adventures and take the lack of readily-available, reuseable healing and anti-undead/anti-outsider measures into account. If you like beating stuff, skip the Pelorite and play someone with Strength and War for domains (those two go well enough together you won't even need a god), which provides you with good beating Domain powers and spells.
Myst_the_Moonscout 11-21-06, 11:03 PM	My friend was in the same boat as you. He was the last to the group and we needed a cleric so that's what he got. He didn't like it at first but the DM was forgiving since his character was pretty much made for him and he was allowed to re-vamp the character later on. We now have a half-elf with neon green hair, black full plate with armour spikes, the strongest weapon in the party, and a very large grin everytime he yells "SMITE!" He's chaotic neutral with the magic and destruction domains, which makes him deal some heavy beats and gives him some arcane ability as well. He's been the most flashy character in the game since. First thing I'd say is to ask your DM if you can tweek your character since it seems your current build is looking iffy for you. After that, take a good long look at domains and spells. Clerics have some very handy and some very nasty spells at their disposal. Right now we make heavy use of air walk, water walk, bull's strength, animate dead, flame strike, and the granted domain powers. If your DM wants you to have a god, see if you can make one up. "I worship the unkown entity of Imperia, long since forgotten by mortal beings!" and so on. My own cleric is a pyromaniac worshipper of Kossuth (FR fire god) with fire and destruction domains who fights with a spiked chain. Typical strong silent type with a penchant for throwing fire around, and that's what makes him fun for me. It's all about burning stuff. :D. He rarely talks, usually acting instead. *Glares at the halfling rogue. Shoves her through the doorway.* Translation: "you go first, trap-finder." He's also the party's "back-up negotiator," standing behind the sorceror while playing with a match or rolling a ball of flame over his fingers. Think about what you want to play first, and then apply the cleric class to fit that idea, rather than making the idea fit to the class.
GnomeMade 11-21-06, 11:28 PM	If your DM does not let you change because this character hasn't died yet...Here are some personality adjustments that might make this more fun. 1) The honeymoon is over...the optimism slips towards your party. Suddenly, instead of, "Why, certainly, I'd love to heal you!" Or "I'm sure no one will be hurt! Not while Pelor watches over us!" we have- "Again?" muttered, and "I'm sure you're going to keep me busy by charging into the nice sharp spikey things and setting off all the traps just like crazy little mice. You are lucky that Pelor puts up with you." Or, you get all paranoid that one of them is secretly a necromancer or harboring a necromancer. 2) You become insanely optimistic. Everything is all about your god! You are sure that the man winking at you is trying to let you know that he approves of your choice to serve Pelor. That woman that bought your rather charming looking character a drink and is smiling at you did so because you are a shining example of everything a priest should be, but she is actually a sign from Pelor that thought he approves of you in general, you need to stay away from the alcohol...since this lady is obviously so impressed with you that she's trying to get you drunk enough to father her children. That merchant is probably going to donate this equipment to you! After all, you represent Pelor! 3) Lose your faith. Question your motives. Soul seach. Multiclass!
Kitaki 11-22-06, 08:23 AM	Go through Dieties and Demigods and FR Faiths and Pantheons, find a god you like, play a cleric of that god. If it happens to be an evil god, pick up the Spontaneous Healing feat from Complete Divine, it allows you spontaneously heal like a good cleric.
jamesnero 11-22-06, 09:55 AM	I got three words for you! Cleric of mystra :bow:
Pandaemoni 11-22-06, 10:57 AM	What is it that you dislike about the character? Is it just that you don't like playing a "support" (healing) role? Clerics actually make very good melee tanks (though I know you hate buff spells). With spells (and especially with Persistent Spells), they make far better tanks/front line fighters than fighters do. Without magical aid, they still make very good tanks. Some parties object to the cleric-tank because they want the cleric to be a heal dispenser, but I am of the belief that you should not let other players tell you how to play your character. The cleric, while lacking the direct damage spells of the wizard, is nonetheless extremely adaptable relative to any other class save druid, so I tend to suspect there is some ay to move it into a niche you won't hate quite so much.
Pyke_Moonshadow 11-22-06, 11:01 AM	The cleric, while lacking the direct damage spells of the wizard, is nonetheless extremely adaptable relative to any other class save druid, so I tend to suspect there is some ay to move it into a niche you won't hate quite so much. Yeah. I think I just need to find spells that I like. Other than buffs and summons, any suggestions?
Kitaki 11-22-06, 11:10 AM	Most of the damaging spells for clerics are Inflict X Wounds and other touch attacks, The Air domain gives you Chain Lightning as your 6th level domain spell, and the Fire domain has a number of damage spells.
Sulaco 11-22-06, 11:12 AM	What I need is advice from any die hard cleric players on how to have fun with the character. What made the cleric fun for you to play? Talk to the DM seperately, not during the game or with anyone else around. Jsut a one-on-one chat. Tell him how unhappy you are with the PC and ask to switch and turn the Cleric into an NPC. If he says "no" then my advice is to burn off all your spells in combat instead of being a CLW Vending Machine.
mlund 11-22-06, 03:49 PM	The most memorable cleric of Pelor I've ever played alongside is in Living Greyhawk. He's the "Most Humblest Servant of Pelor." There is a reason this guy is an adventurer - no one can put up with him as a regular fixture in their church or abbey. He's optimistic and heal-happy. He's also casually condescending and arrogant in every possible way he can be and still rationalize his "humility." I was playing a bard who'd taken Pelor as a patron (started out as a joke in his mind, and became all too serious) and along with an NPC who's tribe revered Pelor I'd undertaken morning devotions atop a nearby hill at sunrise. So this cleric insisted on finding a taller hill to make his devotions. At that point the party wizard actually blew a Darkness spell targeted on the higher hilltop while the Cleric wasn't looking. Man I enjoy playing with that player. He's got a few other characters, all of which have quirks that make them distinct. They are still team players, but have personality flaws that breed entertaining situations (not to be confused with intra-table conflicts). - Marty Lund
Daxen 11-22-06, 09:22 PM	Yeah, I think the problem you are having is you walked into a 31 flavors and picked Vanilla. I would never play a cleric of Pelor as Pelor bores me to tears. Fharlaghn, Corellon Larethian, Moradin, Kord, or Olidammara these are clerics you can sink your role playing teeth into. Things being as they are though you will be the heal B*T*H for now. Don't necesarrily look for fun in your class, look for fun in the character. What makes this guy different from most COPS? Play off a personality not a class. View it as a challenge, not a situation to say I was right divine casters aren't my thing.
Voldar_Mecorthio 11-23-06, 01:09 PM	Here's an idea: If your DM will allow it, prepare two seperate spell lists, one with nothing but nicey-nicey spells (buffs, healing, Bless Water, etc) with the healing and sun domains, with alignment NG, then have an alternate personality with alignment NE, domains Deathbound and Evil, and preping Inflicts, Animate Dead, basicly necromancy, Planear Ally spells, and other summoning and pain spells. Alternate between your personalities at random moments, and if one wants to gain dominance he can make a concentration check opposed by the current one's check. This dominance can be attempted 1/hour. This allows for diametric characters in the same body, and sometimes have them argue with each other. That would be fun to play. You have picked the single most boring way to play clerics. Sun/Healing cleric of pelor who loves everything but undead is an overused archetype that has no individuality, no uniqueness, and quite simply is boring. Customize your cleric. It's one of the most versitile classes, and like Daxen said, you picked the dullest of wide range of options. You need to change your concept, fast.
Rangerman 11-24-06, 10:54 AM	Take leadership make your minions the heal monkies. Then multiclass to something you like better. You'll be able to have the minions do your "dirty work" and keep the "responsibility" to heal your party while being able to do whatever you like with your character. Maybe an in character event triggers a change in philosophy for your dude to be more combat focused or whatever you like.
Myst_the_Moonscout 11-24-06, 11:12 AM	Here's a thought. Why not see if there's someone who'd be willing to split the heal job with you? It will take a little of the burden off you and is easily rationalized by the wisdom of having more than one person capable of reviving someone should the main healer go down. This is my job in our campaign (not officially, but I like to live so I've made it my job to make sure the cleric lives.) I'm a ranger with a few spells so I keep a heal spell handy and have a moderate heal skill. Since I'm a back-line fighter I'm rarely in serious need myself so I can act as back-up anything, and it gives my friend a little more freedom to get into the action because he's got a safety net should it be needed.
kelvinaw273 11-24-06, 12:02 PM	Stop thinking in terms of what the character does, think about who the character is. Why do they try and help people? Where were they brought up? Why do they access those particular domains? With this basis the character could be an acidid, smart-mouthed sarcastic pain in the *** like House. He could be an idealistic, pacifistic solar-priest out to find his moon-goddess priestess to balance his inner karma, dude. He could be a fanatical anti-undead, rightious-wrath smite-the-unbeliever type. He could be an ecumenical 'lets all worship together' priest or a purist 'I only heal the servents of Pelor!' type of priest. This is all without changing his class, stats or anything. If you prefer combat, then go for a few levels of monk followed by Sacred Fist. If you prefer arcane magic, mix him with sorcerer or wizard and go Mystic Theurge. It's your character, as long as you have a few healing spells tucked away to meet the party's needs, knock yourself out.
crowclub 11-25-06, 05:55 AM	Insist on having x% of all treasure spent on healing potions. Tell your other party members that although you can heal them, you are not going to withdraw from combat every time they need some HP's. Make them take some of the responsibility of staying alive away from you. If the other party members want to slog it out with every monster you meet then tell them to take Leadership and get themselves a Cohort Band Aid.
Pyke_Moonshadow 11-27-06, 10:33 AM	Insist on having x% of all treasure spent on healing potions. Tell your other party members that although you can heal them, you are not going to withdraw from combat every time they need some HP's. Make them take some of the responsibility of staying alive away from you. If the other party members want to slog it out with every monster you meet then tell them to take Leadership and get themselves a Cohort Band Aid. We always buy out the town's supply of healing potions and clw wands.