how to play the rogue? [Archive] - Wizards Community

how to play the rogue? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nordman
07-31-05, 06:18 PM I always have trouble as one and also now I need to go into closs combat. I really need some advice how to use my skills and how to act in combat and in houses I "visit"

Im always going down the drain as anything except fighter classes so I dont know what I do wrong. please give me some tips!
BloodGod
07-31-05, 07:15 PM If you're high enough level, get a ring of invisibility. Thus, getting your sneak attack damage constantly (unless they have something that allows them to see invisible). Or, make sure you get good flanking positions, that also entitles you to sneak attack damage. Multiclassing Fighter/Rogue never killed (for the most part) anyone.

-BG
Ulthwe
07-31-05, 08:25 PM As a rogue you need your sneak attacks to do any damage, so spend all your money on stuff that helps achieving that goal. Ring of invisibility, boots of elvenkind and other stuff that makes you make less noise. Max out move silently, and possibly hide(if you can't go invisible). Also make sure you have a high initiative and a good spot and listen. So that you are always the first to know there are enemies and the first to respond to them. Start combat by either going invisible or hide. Then use your move action to take up a good position(best is flanking the fighter or if you use a ranged weapon behind the fighter). Then wait till the enemies arrive and start sneak attacking, a full sneak attack is one of the more devastating attacks in the game!

Edit: I advise maxing out your bluff skill aswell, so that if you get caught by surprise you can still make sneak attacks in combat. Just feint and do a sneak attack.
peakaboojones
07-31-05, 09:34 PM I highly reccomend looking at the invisible blade prestige class, if that fits your character, if gives good sneak attack, and feint as a free action. Always work with another character, always flank your enemy. In the quintessential monk there are some new uses for hide that greatly benefit the rogue. Look into merciful weapons. Although the damage is subdual, they deal an additional 1d6 points of it. Work on your hide modifier, and try sneaking around back of opponents. All of these will greatly benefit the rogue, and dont forget that the rogue is a great thief. Never pass up a chance to make some quick coin.
tharivol266
07-31-05, 09:42 PM take ranks in tumble and climb too they will let u get around combat zones easier or let u get to areas to take advantage of ur other skills(ranged attacks can be sneak attacks when ur within 30')
High Octane
08-01-05, 11:35 AM Combat expertise. You can use it to gain some AC bonuses. Also, only enter melee combat to provide a flank or get surprise attacks. If you are flanking, you get a +2 bonus to spend on AC from combat expertise. Your use in this instance is giving the fighter some aid and giving yourself the chance for sneak attack.
DrMorganes
08-01-05, 02:00 PM Combat expertise. You can use it to gain some AC bonuses. Also, only enter melee combat to provide a flank or get surprise attacks. If you are flanking, you get a +2 bonus to spend on AC from combat expertise. Your use in this instance is giving the fighter some aid and giving yourself the chance for sneak attack.Not quite...

Combat Expertise allows you to take a penalty (up to -5) to your attack roll and add that same number (up to +5) as a dodge bonus to your AC. Check the online SRD (http://srd.pbemnexus.com/featsAll.html#combat-expertise) for specifics of this Feat. As a rogue, your BAB is fairly crappy. You need all you can get, and AC is better buffed in other ways.

Flanking allows you a flat +2 bonus to hit AND qualifies all of your attacks as Sneak Attacks. Flanking is your friend. The downside is that you cannot flank with a ranged weapon; you have to close to melee range. Using a light weapon in conjunction with Weapon Finesse while flanking will maximize your hit potential, assuming your DEX is higher than your STR. (Your DEX is higher than your STR, right?)

Tumble allows you to move through threatened squares without provoking an Attack of Opportunity. Useful only if you're actually moving around a crowded battlefield. Likewise, Hide is only useful if you have COVER to hide behind. Using standard rules, you cannot hide while observed. "Sneaking around the battlefield" generally isn't possible. Sneak Attacking from a sniping position is difficult at best. Remember that you MUST be within 30' for a ranged attack to be considered a Sneak Attack, AND your target must either be flanked by you (not possible with a ranged weapon) or denied his DEX bonus. Feinting can be useful, but keep a few things in mind: it's a Standard Action, it's an opposed roll, and your target gets to add his BAB to his roll. Improved Feint can be a handy choice (Feint becomes a move action, allowing you to attack in the same round as the feint), but has limited utility if you're not in combat a LOT (and you shouldn't be).

If you haven't already done so, I strongly encourage you to read the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/rg) articles on Sneak Attacks. It will clear up at least two of the misconceptions presented by others in this topic.

You are NOT a one-trick pony. Rogues can add to combat, but must be careful about when they engage and when they withdraw. You won't last but a round or two going toe-to-toe. That said, your skills in trap finding and removal are second to none, as are your "soft" skills - thinks like Bluff, Gather Information, etc, can be very useful out of combat. Use Magic Device adds an entire new dimension to rogues as support. Scrolls, Wands, and other items are yours to play with without all those pesky "class spell list" restrictions.
danielinthewolvesden
08-01-05, 02:15 PM Max out Tumble. Get tactical with a tank in the group- make him your "flanking buddy"- work as a team.
Callista
08-01-05, 02:31 PM Exactly. You need a buddy... flanking is a rogue's bread and butter.
TheErsatzFacsimileOfMe
08-01-05, 02:46 PM Flanking, flanking, flanking.

As a rogue you should have little or no desire to go toe to toe with combat oriented foes, let the cleric or fighter take that role. You should be sneaking around and attempting to flank and sneak attack the people they are "keeping busy".

Alternately, you could take levels in fighter or barbarian and max-out your "bluff" skill to feint then sneak attack. Or even take some levels in Soceror, using weapon proficiency (ray) to make sneak attacks from a distance. Or take some levels in ranger for the TWF and Ambidexterity goodness.

Really you have alot of options. So, use them.

Oh, shadowdancer also comes to mind as a PrC.
Nuntius128
08-01-05, 02:50 PM Have you got Savage Species? There's a Rogues Blade in there that gives a constant Blink effect to the weilder.
weasel fierce
08-01-05, 03:16 PM I dont know about all teh fancy feats, prestige classes and builds but I do know the one rule of Rogues :

Stay the heck out of hand-to-hand at all costs.

You should never enter a fight unless the odds are stacked heavily in your favour.
Nordman
08-01-05, 05:10 PM Thanks guys (and/or gals) now my only problem is that the group is built up on, 1 sorcerer, 1 ranger with range attack and 1 ranger with uknown fighting (if not the GM that plays him change class) We all are lvl 10. I have a 70 HP, 17 in open lock with masterthief tools and around 10-14 in hide,move silently, also bluff I think. 16 or 17in str, 18 in dex and 16 in con

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nordman 07-31-05, 06:18 PM	I always have trouble as one and also now I need to go into closs combat. I really need some advice how to use my skills and how to act in combat and in houses I "visit" Im always going down the drain as anything except fighter classes so I dont know what I do wrong. please give me some tips!
BloodGod 07-31-05, 07:15 PM	If you're high enough level, get a ring of invisibility. Thus, getting your sneak attack damage constantly (unless they have something that allows them to see invisible). Or, make sure you get good flanking positions, that also entitles you to sneak attack damage. Multiclassing Fighter/Rogue never killed (for the most part) anyone. -BG
Ulthwe 07-31-05, 08:25 PM	As a rogue you need your sneak attacks to do any damage, so spend all your money on stuff that helps achieving that goal. Ring of invisibility, boots of elvenkind and other stuff that makes you make less noise. Max out move silently, and possibly hide(if you can't go invisible). Also make sure you have a high initiative and a good spot and listen. So that you are always the first to know there are enemies and the first to respond to them. Start combat by either going invisible or hide. Then use your move action to take up a good position(best is flanking the fighter or if you use a ranged weapon behind the fighter). Then wait till the enemies arrive and start sneak attacking, a full sneak attack is one of the more devastating attacks in the game! Edit: I advise maxing out your bluff skill aswell, so that if you get caught by surprise you can still make sneak attacks in combat. Just feint and do a sneak attack.
peakaboojones 07-31-05, 09:34 PM	I highly reccomend looking at the invisible blade prestige class, if that fits your character, if gives good sneak attack, and feint as a free action. Always work with another character, always flank your enemy. In the quintessential monk there are some new uses for hide that greatly benefit the rogue. Look into merciful weapons. Although the damage is subdual, they deal an additional 1d6 points of it. Work on your hide modifier, and try sneaking around back of opponents. All of these will greatly benefit the rogue, and dont forget that the rogue is a great thief. Never pass up a chance to make some quick coin.
tharivol266 07-31-05, 09:42 PM	take ranks in tumble and climb too they will let u get around combat zones easier or let u get to areas to take advantage of ur other skills(ranged attacks can be sneak attacks when ur within 30')
High Octane 08-01-05, 11:35 AM	Combat expertise. You can use it to gain some AC bonuses. Also, only enter melee combat to provide a flank or get surprise attacks. If you are flanking, you get a +2 bonus to spend on AC from combat expertise. Your use in this instance is giving the fighter some aid and giving yourself the chance for sneak attack.
DrMorganes 08-01-05, 02:00 PM	Combat expertise. You can use it to gain some AC bonuses. Also, only enter melee combat to provide a flank or get surprise attacks. If you are flanking, you get a +2 bonus to spend on AC from combat expertise. Your use in this instance is giving the fighter some aid and giving yourself the chance for sneak attack.Not quite... Combat Expertise allows you to take a penalty (up to -5) to your attack roll and add that same number (up to +5) as a dodge bonus to your AC. Check the online SRD (http://srd.pbemnexus.com/featsAll.html#combat-expertise) for specifics of this Feat. As a rogue, your BAB is fairly crappy. You need all you can get, and AC is better buffed in other ways. Flanking allows you a flat +2 bonus to hit AND qualifies all of your attacks as Sneak Attacks. Flanking is your friend. The downside is that you cannot flank with a ranged weapon; you have to close to melee range. Using a light weapon in conjunction with Weapon Finesse while flanking will maximize your hit potential, assuming your DEX is higher than your STR. (Your DEX is higher than your STR, right?) Tumble allows you to move through threatened squares without provoking an Attack of Opportunity. Useful only if you're actually moving around a crowded battlefield. Likewise, Hide is only useful if you have COVER to hide behind. Using standard rules, you cannot hide while observed. "Sneaking around the battlefield" generally isn't possible. Sneak Attacking from a sniping position is difficult at best. Remember that you MUST be within 30' for a ranged attack to be considered a Sneak Attack, AND your target must either be flanked by you (not possible with a ranged weapon) or denied his DEX bonus. Feinting can be useful, but keep a few things in mind: it's a Standard Action, it's an opposed roll, and your target gets to add his BAB to his roll. Improved Feint can be a handy choice (Feint becomes a move action, allowing you to attack in the same round as the feint), but has limited utility if you're not in combat a LOT (and you shouldn't be). If you haven't already done so, I strongly encourage you to read the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/rg) articles on Sneak Attacks. It will clear up at least two of the misconceptions presented by others in this topic. You are NOT a one-trick pony. Rogues can add to combat, but must be careful about when they engage and when they withdraw. You won't last but a round or two going toe-to-toe. That said, your skills in trap finding and removal are second to none, as are your "soft" skills - thinks like Bluff, Gather Information, etc, can be very useful out of combat. Use Magic Device adds an entire new dimension to rogues as support. Scrolls, Wands, and other items are yours to play with without all those pesky "class spell list" restrictions.
danielinthewolvesden 08-01-05, 02:15 PM	Max out Tumble. Get tactical with a tank in the group- make him your "flanking buddy"- work as a team.
Callista 08-01-05, 02:31 PM	Exactly. You need a buddy... flanking is a rogue's bread and butter.
TheErsatzFacsimileOfMe 08-01-05, 02:46 PM	Flanking, flanking, flanking. As a rogue you should have little or no desire to go toe to toe with combat oriented foes, let the cleric or fighter take that role. You should be sneaking around and attempting to flank and sneak attack the people they are "keeping busy". Alternately, you could take levels in fighter or barbarian and max-out your "bluff" skill to feint then sneak attack. Or even take some levels in Soceror, using weapon proficiency (ray) to make sneak attacks from a distance. Or take some levels in ranger for the TWF and Ambidexterity goodness. Really you have alot of options. So, use them. Oh, shadowdancer also comes to mind as a PrC.
Nuntius128 08-01-05, 02:50 PM	Have you got Savage Species? There's a Rogues Blade in there that gives a constant Blink effect to the weilder.
weasel fierce 08-01-05, 03:16 PM	I dont know about all teh fancy feats, prestige classes and builds but I do know the one rule of Rogues : Stay the heck out of hand-to-hand at all costs. You should never enter a fight unless the odds are stacked heavily in your favour.
Nordman 08-01-05, 05:10 PM	Thanks guys (and/or gals) now my only problem is that the group is built up on, 1 sorcerer, 1 ranger with range attack and 1 ranger with uknown fighting (if not the GM that plays him change class) We all are lvl 10. I have a 70 HP, 17 in open lock with masterthief tools and around 10-14 in hide,move silently, also bluff I think. 16 or 17in str, 18 in dex and 16 in con