Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jack_SSW 08-25-05, 10:39 AM	Ok, so here's the situation. I have a friend who's constantly making these totally overpowered characters (that he thinks are well balance for a champain). How overpowered you ask? How about a character who gets all the power of a Black Phoenix(whatever that is) that apparently continues to build is power super fast, and forever. But what's worse is his balancing strategy. He uses one of the lamest, laziest(in my opinion) balancer that I can think of, he says that his character has all this power, but he can't control it... I don't know, it just sould like a complete waste of time, and no fun to play. Maybe some of you guys can make it sound better to me, or come up with an idea on how to knock some sense(D&D sense) into him. Thanks!
Illion the Red 08-25-05, 11:05 AM	Ok, so here's the situation. I have a friend who's constantly making these totally overpowered characters (that he thinks are well balance for a champain). How overpowered you ask? How about a character who gets all the power of a Black Phoenix(whatever that is) that apparently continues to build is power super fast, and forever. But what's worse is his balancing strategy. He uses one of the lamest, laziest(in my opinion) balancer that I can think of, he says that his character has all this power, but he can't control it... I don't know, it just sould like a complete waste of time, and no fun to play. Maybe some of you guys can make it sound better to me, or come up with an idea on how to knock some sense(D&D sense) into him. Thanks! Tell him that this is D&D, not Marvel Comics. If he wants to play with the Phoenix Force :rolleyes: , he should switch systems. Why is the DM allowing this to happen, anyway?
Cloud Divider 08-25-05, 11:12 AM	I've had a number of players like this in the past. The easiest solution: "Make your character using the races, classes, feats, and so on out of the PHB. Flavor text it however you want." Sure, he can say that his Sorceror's source of power is the whole "Black Phoenix" thing. The powers he gets should (hopefully) be representative of what the Black Phoenix is/does (ie so Burning Hands is probably a good spell choice). Maybe the Black Phoenix thing gives him a little better fighting capability...so instead of a Sorceror, he's a Cleric (with Fire and Healing domains). If he's a REALLY good combatant, maybe he should be a multiclass Sorceror/Fighter. And he's whatever level the rest of the party is. The slightly less-easy solution: Use the MOST BASIC rules, but allow a little bit of tweaking. Say, for instance, the player wants to play a cat-person. Use the stats for an Elf (+dex, -con), keep the pointy ears, and add a bit more facial/body hair, and you're good. Maybe change the racial weapon from longsword/bow to spiked gauntlets (or tiger's claws, or similar exotic weapon). The problem with the latter version, is that it opens the door (again) to the long painful discussions about "Well, how about instead of Standard Elf Stats, I use XX Elf Stats...or how about I take a -2 Wis and -2 Cha instead of the -2 Con...or maybe...?". Or, you just pick a different game system that is a little more tweak-friendly (Maybe Mutants and Masterminds, or BESM d20, or HERO or standard BESM, or whatever).
Jack_SSW 08-25-05, 11:16 AM	You know, he keeps saying that hes dad used to play D&D and that he played with these overpowered characters like, oh, you'll love this one. A character that can bind energy to gether and created the universe, but he's not considered to be a deity because he bound his own power so that he would not be too powerful... :rolleyes: But my problem is what can I tell him to encourge him to make characters that aren't overpowered, maybe even underpowered, but really fun to play for a long time, and not something that even a DM would get bored of playing with.
Illion the Red 08-25-05, 11:19 AM	You know, he keeps saying that hes dad used to play D&D and that he played with these overpowered characters like, oh, you'll love this one. A character that can bind energy to gether and created the universe, but he's not considered to be a deity because he bound his own power so that he would not be too powerful... :rolleyes: *Cough* Franklin Richards *Cough* Really, this guy wants to play a superheros game, not D&D.
Jack_SSW 08-25-05, 11:23 AM	Another quick thing is that he feels D&D restricts him too much, and other systems aren't good enough so he goes off trying to make his own universal system and trys to get me to play in it. Everytime I do, I get disappointed because I can always exploit he's most simple rules, I want to convince him to just take a system, and use everything they give him, and not warped rules to make his characters. But that won't be an easy task...
Cloud Divider 08-25-05, 11:41 AM	You know, he keeps saying that hes dad used to play D&D and that he played with these overpowered characters like, oh, you'll love this one. A character that can bind energy to gether and created the universe, but he's not considered to be a deity because he bound his own power so that he would not be too powerful... :rolleyes: But y'know, that could actually fly. Being who *HAD* incredible power, but gave it up. Maybe he still angsts over whether it was the right choice or not. That could make for a pretty rockin' character, IMO. Right now, I'm thinkin' of a former high-end Celestial, who voluntarily chose to become mortal... But see, this is one of those things that's "all in the delivery." You can take a crummy concept, and turn it into something cool. Or take a cool concept, and turn it into junk (ref. your typical Hollywood movie adaptation). But my problem is what can I tell him to encourge him to make characters that aren't overpowered, maybe even underpowered, but really fun to play for a long time, and not something that even a DM would get bored of playing with. The problem is, there's some folks out there for which making "standard" or "underpowered" characters has ZERO attraction. These are generally the folks for whom roleplaying is the opportunity for the power fantasy. You can TRY to pry them out of that habit (I know I've sure tried), but those are habits that die hard. They'll make a "normal" character, but the old habits will start to creep back in (just wait til you see this "normal" guy's backstory, or what the player wants to do with him!). It's ultimately one of those "play styles" issues. Some guys would rather play Superheroes (in the Superman vein). Others want to play "low end" Superheroes. Others would rather play Joe Average in a Wierd Situation. Some guys want to Save The World in every campaign. Others have fun "just getting by". It'll be up to you (and your group) to decide if you can come to a compromise. Otherwise, you may just do better to find a group that better matches your playstyle, or be bored and/or frustrated playing a game you don't want to play.
rbrt_Spade 08-25-05, 11:49 AM	Another quick thing is that he feels D&D restricts him too much, and other systems aren't good enough so he goes off trying to make his own universal system and trys to get me to play in it. Everytime I do, I get disappointed because I can always exploit he's most simple rules, I want to convince him to just take a system, and use everything they give him, and not warped rules to make his characters. But that won't be an easy task... so hes making his one system? from scratch or a d20 system.-do you know how long this would take? if he/she wants to play powerfull,weak,average joe let him! this is saying when you get treasure thiers a +5 short sword thier and a potion of cure light wounds. this is saying ill just take the potion.-ive never known a player not wanting to boost thier pc. the dm can always find things to take them on. i assume hes/shes a spellcaster, they will always be powerfull vs. say a fighter
Bob the Great 08-25-05, 12:20 PM	You know how to fix this? Dont let him gain a benefit from any "backstory". . Dont let him gain bonuses for anything other than class, feats, race and templates. Dont let him make his own class, feats, race, templates, etc. The alternative solution involves a body turning up in a ditch.
Abulafia 08-25-05, 02:32 PM	Not to sound like Spock or anything, but I think in D&D overall group enjoyment is the paramount objective. Some groups are okay playing with Captain Drama the Overpowered Attention Hog, some groups aren't. Obviously this is bothering you -- is it bothering the DM? The rest of the group? Have you talked to the others about it? I would start by telling the DM and other players how you feel, and get their reactions. It may be that they all like watching Capt. Drama do his thing, or it may be that they're all tired of him. Once you get a sense of what the rest of the group feels, it will make your next step that much easier to figure out. Also, I would recommend brushing up on your spelling and grammar. ;)
Sinaz 08-25-05, 02:49 PM	He sounds pretty stubborn and that might be a terminal factor. One sort of 'perspective' I give my players when they generate a character is that being that they are level 1, they have not adventured yet. So thier back story should be devoid of great adventures. I do like that idea of a fallen celestial... I digress... for my players, at least, the idea is to start out ordinary and aspire to grow into something extraordinary. That's the adventure... that's the build up. But for real-- you gotta tell the guy to lay off the Marvel references... they're so transparent.
UltimateReality 08-25-05, 04:40 PM	One thing that might help with him always wanting to change the rules for his special characters...show him there's a way to do almost any concept within the rules. (I believe there's a thread on the Char Op board dedicated entirely to proving this. They have builds for everything from Mario and Luigi to Sailor Moon to Pirates of the Caribbean to...etc. etc.) If someone's got a link, I'd love to plug it directly...*madly searching* Just remember that mechanics may be unchangeable, but flavour is always open to change (with DM's approval, of course).
Pyritefoolsgold 08-25-05, 07:25 PM	That black phoenix one, I know exactly how to deal with that. "Yeah, you know those amazing powers you have, but can't controll? They blow you up and transport your remains to the ninth circle of hell. Make a new character."
Cold Napalm 08-25-05, 11:50 PM	See the solution is so easy...just go play by the rules or not at all. If he still insist, then go fine, I have the power of the WHITE pheonix that makes the power of the black pheonix seem trival and show him how silly that gets and fast.
Murrdox 08-26-05, 12:27 PM	I'm confused. How exactly do you PLAY with this guy? Is it just the two of you, one of you DMing and the other playing? Who else is in your game group? It sounds to me like your friend REALLY wants to play not just an adventurer, but a REALLY important character with really huge powers and such. Now, this is fine, as long as the DM and other players want to play that kind of a campaign. The solution is simple, really. Just go buy the Epic handbook. Create level 20 characters. You'll have access to all sorts of strange abilities. If he wants to come up with some original "power" for his character to have, go ahead and let him, but make sure that there is a drawback or penalty for using it. In an Epic Campaign, you'll be tossed against really powerful creatures and individuals, and this player will have the kind of power he craves.
sleepydeath 08-26-05, 01:13 PM	if you have someone in the grp who can revive dead and the powergamer is not playing frenzied berserker, coup de grace him, with a x4 crit dmg weapon while he is sleeping. then bluff, some unknown evil power has affected you, thats why you lost control :D do this several times to make him lose some lvls, so he will lose some of his power. then check his char sheet... there is a difference between a powergamer and a munchkin. a powergamer never breaks rules, maybe he is cheating... convince your dm to build in more roleplaying solutions, not just fighting... convince your dm to give more rewards for roleplaying... if nothing helps, find a new player, because if he is a munchkin, he will also abuse core rules in the phb.
DisposableHero_ 08-26-05, 01:43 PM	If someone's got a link, I'd love to plug it directly...*madly searching* Your wish is my command (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=424838) :D