Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zuj 07-06-06, 12:34 PM	Okay, obviously I wouldn't use the wording above, but I have a bit of a problem. My gaming group has played together for the last 7 years; we've been through the good and the bad, but always manage to have a good time. Myself and another usually trade off DMing, and the group agrees that we both have our different strengths, and serve as fairly decent DMs. Now, neither of us have really had the chance to play together, and we both really wanted to, so another regular in our group offered to step up and DM. Long story short, he has very little DMing experience, and hasn't DMed anything for about 5 years. He is an excellent player, but he sometimes has a short attention span and gets a bit stubborn. Neither of these are good qualities to have as a DM. He created a sort of pseudo-"Steampunk" DnD world (similar to the PC game "Arcanum"), and we have been playing there for the last few months. In short, his campaign is terrible. I can honestly say it hearkens back to the days of junior high DnD where the plots are ridiculous and NPCs are equally so. He railroads us terribly, and blatantly rips off things from all of his favorite books and movies: Boondock Saints, any Clint Eastwood movie, Dark Tower series, etc. It's really annoying being put through predictable encounters and meeting characters that are almost clones of characters in these stories. Here is the problem: he is a really good friend of the entire group. We all get together and do "non-DnD" things, and he is a regular PC in our other campaigns. He has devoted a lot of time to fleshing out his world, and it sounds like he has some good ideas for adventures, but they all turn into non-sensical crap, or are bogged down because of his lack of improv ability. He also the kind of person that would take offense if we told him we didn't want to play it anymore. How do we quit playing his campaign and not risk hurting his feelings or losing player?
LCD2YOU 07-06-06, 12:51 PM	Tell him straight out. Tell him what you just told us. It is a bit harsh to be sure, but it is better than talking about him behind his back, snide remarks during the game, etc. You are aware that will happen, right? Just do it.
stargate525 07-06-06, 12:54 PM	How do we quit playing his campaign and not risk hurting his feelings or losing player? there's no way to completely remove the risk, you just need to tell him. Offer to tutor/help/advise him on DMing technique and style, see if he'll improve.
malignor 07-06-06, 12:55 PM	Okay, obviously I wouldn't use the wording above, but I have a bit of a problem. My gaming group has played together for the last 7 years; we've been through the good and the bad, but always manage to have a good time. Myself and another usually trade off DMing, and the group agrees that we both have our different strengths, and serve as fairly decent DMs. Now, neither of us have really had the chance to play together, and we both really wanted to, so another regular in our group offered to step up and DM. Long story short, he has very little DMing experience, and hasn't DMed anything for about 5 years. He is an excellent player, but he sometimes has a short attention span and gets a bit stubborn. Neither of these are good qualities to have as a DM. He created a sort of pseudo-"Steampunk" DnD world (similar to the PC game "Arcanum"), and we have been playing there for the last few months. In short, his campaign is terrible. I can honestly say it hearkens back to the days of junior high DnD where the plots are ridiculous and NPCs are equally so. He railroads us terribly, and blatantly rips off things from all of his favorite books and movies: Boondock Saints, any Clint Eastwood movie, Dark Tower series, etc. It's really annoying being put through predictable encounters and meeting characters that are almost clones of characters in these stories. Here is the problem: he is a really good friend of the entire group. We all get together and do "non-DnD" things, and he is a regular PC in our other campaigns. He has devoted a lot of time to fleshing out his world, and it sounds like he has some good ideas for adventures, but they all turn into non-sensical crap, or are bogged down because of his lack of improv ability. He also the kind of person that would take offense if we told him we didn't want to play it anymore. How do we quit playing his campaign and not risk hurting his feelings or losing player?One on one. Don't embarass the guy, first off. Second, maybe try giving specific criticism of things. Like after the game, there's usually a player or two who sticks around and talks w/ me (I'm GM/DM) about how the game went. I listen to advice sometimes, get defensive other times and the rest of the time I say "Oh, don't worry. It's supposed to look that way... just be patient and you'll see what it's REALLY about." If the guy can't take criticism, you'll just have to hurt his feelings. If he takes it all personal and holds it against you, he's being childish.
donvier 07-06-06, 12:56 PM	there isn't really an easy solution to this problem, and as already stated, the best thing to do would be honest. say he's a great player and a great guy, but that he hasn't DMed in a while, and that the group isn't having as much fun as they used to, and that you all would like to go back to a previous campaign/start a new one. my only other suggestion is to kill off all the characters in the campaign repeatedly until he gets the idea.....but i'd go with suggestiong number one myself.
simon_tage 07-06-06, 01:27 PM	Perhaps you could recommend that he runs a few published adventures. See how he handles those. maybe he just really can't come up with adventures on his own.
Rian Lightblade 07-06-06, 01:37 PM	I say talk to him about it and offer pointers on how he can improve his style. As you, yourself, said he is rather inexperienced. And many of the "rip-offs" you're complaining about are what new/inexperienced DMs do. Heck when I started DMing I ripped off movies and some of may favorite D&D endless quest books for some of my early adventures, but I was only 11. As more experienced DMs you and the other guy have sort of a responsibility to help him develop his skills. On the other hand, you could always tell him that you and the other DM are ready to get back into the Big Chair, and ask him to wrap up his campaign (of finish the current adventure and put the campaign on hold) in the next session or two. That way you side-step the entire issue altogether, at least until the next time you and the other DM want to play together and he offers to take over and continue his campaign.
razorboy 07-06-06, 01:48 PM	Definitely talk to your DM, one-on-one if possible, or as a group if everyone agrees beforehand to be as polite and respectful about it as possible. Explain to your DM that the group is not having a lot of fun anymore and a change of pace is necessary. Like other suggestions he could try running a pre-made adventure, let someone else DM, or restart the game in a pre-made setting like FR where he can't insert every pop culture reference he can. Be as constructive as you can, mention some of the good qualities he might have as a DM, and offer some suggestions on how he could improve on his bad qualities. Most DMs I've played with took constructive criticisms well so maybe I'm spoiled though... :)
thenotoriousJIM 07-06-06, 02:52 PM	Talk to him about it (everyone has said this). If he still wants to DM, i am sure he can find a group that meets for shorter amounts of time on a different night or run a short session game for whoever is willing to show up early on your normal gameing nights. That lets you guys take back over your game and lets him have a better DM edge. first off he can shrink the party size, run premades if he wants, and has the same amount of time to prepare less. It also lets you keep your eye on the pot if he ever gets better you can move him to the main game again.
Zombayz1 07-06-06, 08:58 PM	Do what my group does when it comes to me DMing: have him design the adventure, and another person run it.
Khan2000 07-06-06, 09:05 PM	there's no way to completely remove the risk, you just need to tell him. Offer to tutor/help/advise him on DMing technique and style, see if he'll improve. This is a very excellent suggestion. I wish I had someone help me with DMing, but oh well. :cool: There's a whole Sith Jedi thing in there.
CryoSilver 07-06-06, 09:08 PM	I don't actually feel offering to "tutor" him would work out very well: he could take it as an insult by interpreting as you saying "you suck, I'm better; be like me and you won't suck as much, though you'll never be as good as me"
BeginnerDM 07-07-06, 10:24 AM	Well its time to suck it up and come up with a campaign of yoru own and say "Hey I've had a great idea for a campaign, and wondering if we could put this one on hold while we get mine up and going" Alternately you can go to him and say: Hey John, how you liking DMing so far? What do you like about it what do you not? And start to build the conversation off of his answers. You might be surprised that he really doesn't want the job anymore and only does it because people wanted him.
Palomides 07-08-06, 12:13 PM	Talk with him, tell him is campain is predictable. Give him examples. Ask him to adjust his campain, because it's beginning to be boring, your group is not having as much fun as they should. If can't adjust tell him that you or someone else is ready to start another campaign (I hope it is the case) if he which it. Another thing, it's not easy to be a good dm, it takes time and a few quests and adventures. I know I just resarted dming lately and I found it hard to do it after a few years of not doing it. Not a lot of people in our group who wants to do it.