How to use spells to earn money (low-levels) [Archive] - Wizards Community

How to use spells to earn money (low-levels) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JonnyBoy
05-04-04, 09:20 AM This is a thread to help low-level spellcasters earn money.

I have one:

You need:
One expensive breakable item.(vase, and so on)
A wizard or sorcerer with Grease and mending.

What you do:
You grease the vase( Make sure it stands on a table, or else you may break it yoursef), then you ask someone to pass it to you, and when it breaks demand that they pay for it. Then you mend it afterwards.

Please post some ideas
Nightchill
05-04-04, 10:50 AM and what alignment would this immoral wizard be? :)
Sisyfos
05-04-04, 11:38 AM Ray of frost + a jug of orange juice --> Create orange tasting ice cones and sell them at markets.
muppet_man
05-04-04, 02:22 PM selling scrolls is always a popular choice (i actually did this at epic levels, sold a powerfull healing spell to a church for over 1/2 a million and a powerfull destructive spell calld nuke to an evil church for almost a million, btw i was LE in alignment)

could set up a security business with spells like alarm, arcane lock, etc.

could hire your self out making traps.

pretty much every spell can be used to make a profit
Edymnion
05-04-04, 02:31 PM Prestidigitation alone can make you a mighty fine, honest living.

Be a drycleaner. Use the Clean function of Prest to clean out even the worst stains from the most delicate of silks.

Be a master chef. Use the Flavor function of Prest to make even gruel taste like the most wonderful thing you've ever put in your mouth. Sell said food for high prices.

Read up on the Fun with Prestidigitation (in Tome & Blood, or there is also a copy of it up in the main archives somewhere), and you should find tons of great ways to use this, the most awesome and powerful of spells, to your full advantage, even at lvl 1.
Thermanshs
05-04-04, 02:34 PM I think I already posted that twice on the same board but.....
So take a look at my post titled: "Why wizards are the best money makers" HERE (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185835) .And let me know if it worked;)
olshanski_home
05-04-04, 03:26 PM As a DM, I'd suggest that you cannot use any spells to make money... it takes a lot of time and effort to find buyers, to market your expertise, to make sure you are not violating local ordinances, etc. There are also probably a LOT of non-adventuring wizards that allready have the market saturated. Anything you can think of, some other non-adventuring wizard probably already has and has a decent reputation for doing a good job of it.

As a DM, I'd also say that if you have the skill "Profession", you can make bundles of money with your spells. That is what profession is... a way to apply your skills to make money. You will see that it is a class skill for Wizards, and it is there for a reason. Its what the non-adventuring wizards use.
Arbitrary Aardvark
05-04-04, 03:49 PM Originally posted by olshanski_home
As a DM, I'd suggest that you cannot use any spells to make money... it takes a lot of time and effort to find buyers, to market your expertise, to make sure you are not violating local ordinances, etc. There are also probably a LOT of non-adventuring wizards that allready have the market saturated. Anything you can think of, some other non-adventuring wizard probably already has and has a decent reputation for doing a good job of it.

As a DM, I'd also say that if you have the skill "Profession", you can make bundles of money with your spells. That is what profession is... a way to apply your skills to make money. You will see that it is a class skill for Wizards, and it is there for a reason. Its what the non-adventuring wizards use.

Most people I've seen who try and figure out ways for their characters to make money with magic are secretly hoping that the DM will get the hint and hand out more treasure. It really bites when a party is fifth level and the wizards can't afford to learn new spells, when the cleric can't afford to make a wound of CLW, and the druid can't make a stupid cloak of resistance +1 because the only treasure is the fighter's +3 sword of uberness and armor of coolness, and the rangers bow of niftyness.
Edymnion
05-04-04, 04:04 PM Originally posted by olshanski_home
As a DM, I'd suggest that you cannot use any spells to make money... it takes a lot of time and effort to find buyers, to market your expertise, to make sure you are not violating local ordinances, etc. There are also probably a LOT of non-adventuring wizards that allready have the market saturated. Anything you can think of, some other non-adventuring wizard probably already has and has a decent reputation for doing a good job of it. Depends on the power level and magic level in your campaign.
Not all campaigns are going to have wizards and sorcerers at a dime a dozen in every city. If you're in Faerun, and in Waterdeep, then yeah, market is saturated with wizards and sorcerers and magic. If you're in a medium sized Greyhawk city, you might be lucky to have 1 spellcaster for every thousand other people. Nowhere near enough to have one thats already cornered the market on everything.

Really, if you have non-adventuring mages setting up stuff like this on every street corner, then you should reasonably expect to have Magic 'R Us stores in every city where the PCs can walk in and get a +5 Vorpal Greataxe off the shelf.
olshanski_home
05-04-04, 04:05 PM I thought that a lot of people who wanted to make money were stuck on the videogame mentality... looking for "exploits"...
like where you stand on a certain spot and cast the same spell a zillion times because each time it increases your wealth by 2%. Or where you sell a non-sellable item to a particular vendor, then open up your inventory and see that it is still there.
Derren S.
05-04-04, 04:15 PM Why shouldn't player be allowed to try to earn money other than slaying creatures and loot theri lairs?

"No, you can't help the local farmer to plow their fields with magic to earn money in your downtime, if you want money, go kill someone"

Its like saying a rogue can't steal to earn money.

Imo a DM who don't allow a wizard to sell his spells to a bidder because its "cheating" is a worse railroader and in truth the one with the video game mentality.
Jeremiah the Red Sage
05-04-04, 05:53 PM Wizards using spells to make money? Aghast! What a terrible thing.

I say if a character is smart enough to realize that he or she can sell magical services, all the better. Priceing is the issue, in a high magic world price would be low, unless you had a great reputaion. In a low magic campaign a simple spell would be worth so much more. A few ranks in perform and even the simplest cantrips become an extravagant magic show. Pass the hat with the built in bag of holding, and collect your "donations" (Who cares if you charmed them? You did you're part, charmed or not they were entertained.)
JonnyBoy
05-05-04, 10:19 AM Originally posted by Derren S.
Why shouldn't player be allowed to try to earn money other than slaying creatures and loot theri lairs?

"No, you can't help the local farmer to plow their fields with magic to earn money in your downtime, if you want money, go kill someone"

Its like saying a rogue can't steal to earn money.

Imo a DM who don't allow a wizard to sell his spells to a bidder because its "cheating" is a worse railroader and in truth the one with the video game mentality.

So true. I am a DM myself and I let my PC's try whatever they want to. Thats one of the things that make roleplaying fun. I am also a player, and I think it is far more fun to play and earn money outside battles and mainquest. It makes me feel like I'm IN the world doing realistic stuff.

Anyway, I thought of another spell (I'm sure you've all thought about it before), illosary script. You write "put all you've got of money in this box" and put the poster over some box you have.
Thermanshs
05-05-04, 12:24 PM Johhny boy:I don't know if you checked my link but it says exactly what you previously mentioned.And you can also remain legal as the coppers would truly go to the church's donation program;)
olshanski_home
05-05-04, 04:01 PM I am not saying that wizards don't use spells to make money... I am saying that there is already a game mechanic in place for spellcasters who choose to "go legit" or earn money in standard non-adventuring methods. The game mechanic is the Profession skill.
Regardless of whether there is a wizard on every corner or if wizards are very rare.... "Profession" should be sufficient to manage non-adventuring income... whether this means you are using prestigitation as a dry-cleaning service... "create food and water" as a catering service, Shape Stone to make sculptures, or "power-word-kill" for pest extermination.

PROFESSION (WIS; TRAINED ONLY)
Like Craft, Knowledge, and Perform, Profession is actually a number of separate skills. You could have several Profession skills, each with its own ranks, each purchased as a separate skill. While a Craft skill represents ability in creating or making an item, a Profession skill represents an aptitude in a vocation requiring a broader range of less specific knowledge.
Check: You can practice your trade and make a decent living, earning about half your Profession check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work. You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the profession’s daily tasks, how to supervise helpers, and how to handle common problems.
Action: Not applicable. A single check generally represents a week of work.
Try Again: Varies. An attempt to use a Profession skill to earn an income cannot be retried. You are stuck with whatever weekly wage your check result brought you. Another check may be made after a week to determine a new income for the next period of time. An attempt to accomplish some specific task can usually be retried.
Untrained: Untrained laborers and assistants (that is, characters without any ranks in Profession) earn an average of 1 silver piece per day.
Derren S.
05-05-04, 04:05 PM Professions is for the use of the profession skill.

Selling spells to someone has as much to do with profession then a thief selling stolen jewelry or a dragonslayser selling loot from his last kill.
ArchmageOmega
05-05-04, 04:42 PM At 3rd level, a cleric can charge 60gp for one casting of cure moderate wounds. At the same level, he has a max of 6 profession, meaning a max of 13 gp per week. Even casting once a day, he could make 420gp in a week. Of course, you'd have to role-play finding a client. I'd say profession is best left for people who don't have more creative ways of earning money in their downtime. I'm sure every class has better ways of earning more than profession, just that they'd all be somewhat less reliable than it. (Plus, in limiting the PC's to the use of profession, you would still make the local cleric charge the 60gp? By the above, it should only cost the PC's about 2gp to have CMW cast. [More like 1gp if the cleric cast more than once a day.])
olshanski_home
05-05-04, 05:55 PM I think the prices in the PHB are generally the cost price for adventurers to obtain such spells/items on short notice. These things say nothing at all about the price adventurers are able to obtain for selling goods or services.

Who in town is paying an adventurer 60 gp for a cure light wounds spell? Or any spell for that matter.

Profession takes into account your advertising (contacting town cryers to let them know you are spellcasting... paying the criers a small "finders fee" for finding appropriate clients... paying for any local taxes, covering expenses for clients who cannot afford the spellcasting services, etc... if you are a cleric casting "cure light wounds" for cash, you are probably going to be contributing a fair amount of your proceeds to the temple at which you "set up shop". For other professions, lets not forget possible union fees, protection fees, and a lot of overhead that comes into play. Profession [wizard] or profession [cleric] accounts for a lot of that overhead.

There are possible roleplaying opportunities for you to make a lot more money than a simple profession check, as some previous posters have suggested. As a DM, I'd prefer not to waste time roleplaying the minutia of shopkeeping, don't forget about the "beebackers"... people who want to see what you have to offer, listen to your spiel, perhaps get some free handouts... then say that they'll "be back later" never to return.

It is my opinion that the game is called "Dungeons and Dragons"... if you want to earn cash fast, you should be delving in dungeons, fighting dragons, collecting bounties, etc... not setting up a drycleaning shop or VD clinic. If you are a player and and that level of detail, and your DM is not satisfied with the mechanic of the "profession" skill... then feel free to roleplay anything you want. I probably should not have posted anything, since I feel that the Profession mechanic should cover any sort of money-earning schemes that mundane non-adventuring wizards would dream up.
ArchmageOmega
05-05-04, 06:35 PM If a 3rd level spell caster spent a week wandering around town, asking the rich people if they needed any kind of magical assistance, it'd only cost him the room and board per day, which can be as low as 3sp. Let's assume he spends 1gp per day, that's 7gp for that week. If he can find one person to cast one 1st level spell for, he makes 30gp, or a profit of 23gp. To even have a chance at that with profession, you'd have to have 26 ranks, which requires level 18 (without feats), and that's assuming profession covers room and board. Also, profession says it "represents an apptitude in a vocation requiring a broader range of a less specific knowledge," and is compared to a service industry. I'd say wizards, etc. are more like specialists and should be paid more, and that a one time casting of a spell hardly constitutes a business, especially one with overhead worth considering.

Having said all that, the core rules aren't really specific about any of this. Any rulings either way are house rules, so I'm pretty sure no one wants to argue about this, as no one is ever going to be able to convince anyone else to think differently than they already do. If you decide to respond, keep these last statements in mind. (I'm really not trying to argue, I am just stating the reasoning behind my view.)
allenchan
05-05-04, 06:59 PM Have another party member mortally wound a rich person and then threaten to not cast a heal spell on them unless they "pay up" :smirk:
olshanski_home
05-05-04, 08:10 PM Archmage Omega,

Your arguments are beginning to sound pretty convincing.
I'd like to make a counter argument:

If you are a wealthy person in need of having a spell cast, don't you ask your other Ari3 friends if they can reccomend anyone... perhaps they have a reputable mage that's been in business for 30 years, and the family has aways relied on him.

I'd recon its similar to having a new roof put on your house, or a new transmission put in your car. There are regular people that do this kind of thing, and you can ask your friends who does this kind of work.
The person who goes door-to-door is looked at suspiciously, and even then there is no way they could charge anywhere near a standard rate.

The rich person wants to know that if you do a bad job (say the magic goes away in a week), that they can demand that you fix things up... a reputable professional mage (using "Profession") has the kind of contacts and respect that earns them money.

Maybe if you tell the DM you are picking a particular type of spell to memorize, just for the sole purpose of earning some cash... he should let you get a +2 circumstance or synergy bonus for using your profession skill.
ArchmageOmega
05-05-04, 08:57 PM Yeah. That's true. I think, personally, I'd handle it by just saying (at least at low levels) that it is very difficult to find anyone willing to trust you enough to pay you the normal rate. (But, if they somehow did find someone, I would let them charge the normal rate.)

[Edit: I just thought of a cool comprimise I might use in my next campaign (if any of my players play a caster :P). You could have the Profession [magic user] but let them get a chance to cast a specific spell if they roll a 20. To be fair, I'd probably allow something similar for other professions though.]
Arbitrary Aardvark
05-06-04, 01:22 PM Originally posted by olshanski_home
It is my opinion that the game is called "Dungeons and Dragons"... if you want to earn cash fast, you should be delving in dungeons, fighting dragons, collecting bounties, etc... not setting up a drycleaning shop or VD clinic. If you are a player and and that level of detail, and your DM is not satisfied with the mechanic of the "profession" skill... then feel free to roleplay anything you want. I probably should not have posted anything, since I feel that the Profession mechanic should cover any sort of money-earning schemes that mundane non-adventuring wizards would dream up.

I think this topic only comes up with really stingy DMs. The king where the bounties don't cover the cost of the Cure Light Wound wand you end up using, where the king takes half the magic items from the quest (which weren't that good anyway) and 3/4 of the money, and where the dragon is poorer than a graduate assistant.
Iver Gearsham
05-09-04, 02:54 AM There is a simple answer just give half price just like selling a sword you find in a dungen it costs 50 to buy you sell it for 25. Why because you don't have a shop and can't wait for a buyer to give you top GP.
As for selling a perticuler spell I think who could at lest in theory pay for your service? How many farmers have silver let alone gold on hand to pay for anything? skip plowing farmers feilds unless you want to plow the farmers wife or daughter.

I am going to try this go to a caravan staging area and using Shrink Item to reduce cargo for merchants alowing them to travel faster and or the ability to store/hide very valuable items as inocent cloth.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JonnyBoy 05-04-04, 09:20 AM	This is a thread to help low-level spellcasters earn money. I have one: You need: One expensive breakable item.(vase, and so on) A wizard or sorcerer with Grease and mending. What you do: You grease the vase( Make sure it stands on a table, or else you may break it yoursef), then you ask someone to pass it to you, and when it breaks demand that they pay for it. Then you mend it afterwards. Please post some ideas
Nightchill 05-04-04, 10:50 AM	and what alignment would this immoral wizard be? :)
Sisyfos 05-04-04, 11:38 AM	Ray of frost + a jug of orange juice --> Create orange tasting ice cones and sell them at markets.
muppet_man 05-04-04, 02:22 PM	selling scrolls is always a popular choice (i actually did this at epic levels, sold a powerfull healing spell to a church for over 1/2 a million and a powerfull destructive spell calld nuke to an evil church for almost a million, btw i was LE in alignment) could set up a security business with spells like alarm, arcane lock, etc. could hire your self out making traps. pretty much every spell can be used to make a profit
Edymnion 05-04-04, 02:31 PM	Prestidigitation alone can make you a mighty fine, honest living. Be a drycleaner. Use the Clean function of Prest to clean out even the worst stains from the most delicate of silks. Be a master chef. Use the Flavor function of Prest to make even gruel taste like the most wonderful thing you've ever put in your mouth. Sell said food for high prices. Read up on the Fun with Prestidigitation (in Tome & Blood, or there is also a copy of it up in the main archives somewhere), and you should find tons of great ways to use this, the most awesome and powerful of spells, to your full advantage, even at lvl 1.
Thermanshs 05-04-04, 02:34 PM	I think I already posted that twice on the same board but..... So take a look at my post titled: "Why wizards are the best money makers" HERE (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185835) .And let me know if it worked;)
olshanski_home 05-04-04, 03:26 PM	As a DM, I'd suggest that you cannot use any spells to make money... it takes a lot of time and effort to find buyers, to market your expertise, to make sure you are not violating local ordinances, etc. There are also probably a LOT of non-adventuring wizards that allready have the market saturated. Anything you can think of, some other non-adventuring wizard probably already has and has a decent reputation for doing a good job of it. As a DM, I'd also say that if you have the skill "Profession", you can make bundles of money with your spells. That is what profession is... a way to apply your skills to make money. You will see that it is a class skill for Wizards, and it is there for a reason. Its what the non-adventuring wizards use.
Arbitrary Aardvark 05-04-04, 03:49 PM	Originally posted by olshanski_home As a DM, I'd suggest that you cannot use any spells to make money... it takes a lot of time and effort to find buyers, to market your expertise, to make sure you are not violating local ordinances, etc. There are also probably a LOT of non-adventuring wizards that allready have the market saturated. Anything you can think of, some other non-adventuring wizard probably already has and has a decent reputation for doing a good job of it. As a DM, I'd also say that if you have the skill "Profession", you can make bundles of money with your spells. That is what profession is... a way to apply your skills to make money. You will see that it is a class skill for Wizards, and it is there for a reason. Its what the non-adventuring wizards use. Most people I've seen who try and figure out ways for their characters to make money with magic are secretly hoping that the DM will get the hint and hand out more treasure. It really bites when a party is fifth level and the wizards can't afford to learn new spells, when the cleric can't afford to make a wound of CLW, and the druid can't make a stupid cloak of resistance +1 because the only treasure is the fighter's +3 sword of uberness and armor of coolness, and the rangers bow of niftyness.
Edymnion 05-04-04, 04:04 PM	Originally posted by olshanski_home As a DM, I'd suggest that you cannot use any spells to make money... it takes a lot of time and effort to find buyers, to market your expertise, to make sure you are not violating local ordinances, etc. There are also probably a LOT of non-adventuring wizards that allready have the market saturated. Anything you can think of, some other non-adventuring wizard probably already has and has a decent reputation for doing a good job of it. Depends on the power level and magic level in your campaign. Not all campaigns are going to have wizards and sorcerers at a dime a dozen in every city. If you're in Faerun, and in Waterdeep, then yeah, market is saturated with wizards and sorcerers and magic. If you're in a medium sized Greyhawk city, you might be lucky to have 1 spellcaster for every thousand other people. Nowhere near enough to have one thats already cornered the market on everything. Really, if you have non-adventuring mages setting up stuff like this on every street corner, then you should reasonably expect to have Magic 'R Us stores in every city where the PCs can walk in and get a +5 Vorpal Greataxe off the shelf.
olshanski_home 05-04-04, 04:05 PM	I thought that a lot of people who wanted to make money were stuck on the videogame mentality... looking for "exploits"... like where you stand on a certain spot and cast the same spell a zillion times because each time it increases your wealth by 2%. Or where you sell a non-sellable item to a particular vendor, then open up your inventory and see that it is still there.
Derren S. 05-04-04, 04:15 PM	Why shouldn't player be allowed to try to earn money other than slaying creatures and loot theri lairs? "No, you can't help the local farmer to plow their fields with magic to earn money in your downtime, if you want money, go kill someone" Its like saying a rogue can't steal to earn money. Imo a DM who don't allow a wizard to sell his spells to a bidder because its "cheating" is a worse railroader and in truth the one with the video game mentality.
Jeremiah the Red Sage 05-04-04, 05:53 PM	Wizards using spells to make money? Aghast! What a terrible thing. I say if a character is smart enough to realize that he or she can sell magical services, all the better. Priceing is the issue, in a high magic world price would be low, unless you had a great reputaion. In a low magic campaign a simple spell would be worth so much more. A few ranks in perform and even the simplest cantrips become an extravagant magic show. Pass the hat with the built in bag of holding, and collect your "donations" (Who cares if you charmed them? You did you're part, charmed or not they were entertained.)
JonnyBoy 05-05-04, 10:19 AM	Originally posted by Derren S. Why shouldn't player be allowed to try to earn money other than slaying creatures and loot theri lairs? "No, you can't help the local farmer to plow their fields with magic to earn money in your downtime, if you want money, go kill someone" Its like saying a rogue can't steal to earn money. Imo a DM who don't allow a wizard to sell his spells to a bidder because its "cheating" is a worse railroader and in truth the one with the video game mentality. So true. I am a DM myself and I let my PC's try whatever they want to. Thats one of the things that make roleplaying fun. I am also a player, and I think it is far more fun to play and earn money outside battles and mainquest. It makes me feel like I'm IN the world doing realistic stuff. Anyway, I thought of another spell (I'm sure you've all thought about it before), illosary script. You write "put all you've got of money in this box" and put the poster over some box you have.
Thermanshs 05-05-04, 12:24 PM	Johhny boy:I don't know if you checked my link but it says exactly what you previously mentioned.And you can also remain legal as the coppers would truly go to the church's donation program;)
olshanski_home 05-05-04, 04:01 PM	I am not saying that wizards don't use spells to make money... I am saying that there is already a game mechanic in place for spellcasters who choose to "go legit" or earn money in standard non-adventuring methods. The game mechanic is the Profession skill. Regardless of whether there is a wizard on every corner or if wizards are very rare.... "Profession" should be sufficient to manage non-adventuring income... whether this means you are using prestigitation as a dry-cleaning service... "create food and water" as a catering service, Shape Stone to make sculptures, or "power-word-kill" for pest extermination. PROFESSION (WIS; TRAINED ONLY) Like Craft, Knowledge, and Perform, Profession is actually a number of separate skills. You could have several Profession skills, each with its own ranks, each purchased as a separate skill. While a Craft skill represents ability in creating or making an item, a Profession skill represents an aptitude in a vocation requiring a broader range of less specific knowledge. Check: You can practice your trade and make a decent living, earning about half your Profession check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work. You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the profession’s daily tasks, how to supervise helpers, and how to handle common problems. Action: Not applicable. A single check generally represents a week of work. Try Again: Varies. An attempt to use a Profession skill to earn an income cannot be retried. You are stuck with whatever weekly wage your check result brought you. Another check may be made after a week to determine a new income for the next period of time. An attempt to accomplish some specific task can usually be retried. Untrained: Untrained laborers and assistants (that is, characters without any ranks in Profession) earn an average of 1 silver piece per day.
Derren S. 05-05-04, 04:05 PM	Professions is for the use of the profession skill. Selling spells to someone has as much to do with profession then a thief selling stolen jewelry or a dragonslayser selling loot from his last kill.
ArchmageOmega 05-05-04, 04:42 PM	At 3rd level, a cleric can charge 60gp for one casting of cure moderate wounds. At the same level, he has a max of 6 profession, meaning a max of 13 gp per week. Even casting once a day, he could make 420gp in a week. Of course, you'd have to role-play finding a client. I'd say profession is best left for people who don't have more creative ways of earning money in their downtime. I'm sure every class has better ways of earning more than profession, just that they'd all be somewhat less reliable than it. (Plus, in limiting the PC's to the use of profession, you would still make the local cleric charge the 60gp? By the above, it should only cost the PC's about 2gp to have CMW cast. [More like 1gp if the cleric cast more than once a day.])
olshanski_home 05-05-04, 05:55 PM	I think the prices in the PHB are generally the cost price for adventurers to obtain such spells/items on short notice. These things say nothing at all about the price adventurers are able to obtain for selling goods or services. Who in town is paying an adventurer 60 gp for a cure light wounds spell? Or any spell for that matter. Profession takes into account your advertising (contacting town cryers to let them know you are spellcasting... paying the criers a small "finders fee" for finding appropriate clients... paying for any local taxes, covering expenses for clients who cannot afford the spellcasting services, etc... if you are a cleric casting "cure light wounds" for cash, you are probably going to be contributing a fair amount of your proceeds to the temple at which you "set up shop". For other professions, lets not forget possible union fees, protection fees, and a lot of overhead that comes into play. Profession [wizard] or profession [cleric] accounts for a lot of that overhead. There are possible roleplaying opportunities for you to make a lot more money than a simple profession check, as some previous posters have suggested. As a DM, I'd prefer not to waste time roleplaying the minutia of shopkeeping, don't forget about the "beebackers"... people who want to see what you have to offer, listen to your spiel, perhaps get some free handouts... then say that they'll "be back later" never to return. It is my opinion that the game is called "Dungeons and Dragons"... if you want to earn cash fast, you should be delving in dungeons, fighting dragons, collecting bounties, etc... not setting up a drycleaning shop or VD clinic. If you are a player and and that level of detail, and your DM is not satisfied with the mechanic of the "profession" skill... then feel free to roleplay anything you want. I probably should not have posted anything, since I feel that the Profession mechanic should cover any sort of money-earning schemes that mundane non-adventuring wizards would dream up.
ArchmageOmega 05-05-04, 06:35 PM	If a 3rd level spell caster spent a week wandering around town, asking the rich people if they needed any kind of magical assistance, it'd only cost him the room and board per day, which can be as low as 3sp. Let's assume he spends 1gp per day, that's 7gp for that week. If he can find one person to cast one 1st level spell for, he makes 30gp, or a profit of 23gp. To even have a chance at that with profession, you'd have to have 26 ranks, which requires level 18 (without feats), and that's assuming profession covers room and board. Also, profession says it "represents an apptitude in a vocation requiring a broader range of a less specific knowledge," and is compared to a service industry. I'd say wizards, etc. are more like specialists and should be paid more, and that a one time casting of a spell hardly constitutes a business, especially one with overhead worth considering. Having said all that, the core rules aren't really specific about any of this. Any rulings either way are house rules, so I'm pretty sure no one wants to argue about this, as no one is ever going to be able to convince anyone else to think differently than they already do. If you decide to respond, keep these last statements in mind. (I'm really not trying to argue, I am just stating the reasoning behind my view.)
allenchan 05-05-04, 06:59 PM	Have another party member mortally wound a rich person and then threaten to not cast a heal spell on them unless they "pay up" :smirk:
olshanski_home 05-05-04, 08:10 PM	Archmage Omega, Your arguments are beginning to sound pretty convincing. I'd like to make a counter argument: If you are a wealthy person in need of having a spell cast, don't you ask your other Ari3 friends if they can reccomend anyone... perhaps they have a reputable mage that's been in business for 30 years, and the family has aways relied on him. I'd recon its similar to having a new roof put on your house, or a new transmission put in your car. There are regular people that do this kind of thing, and you can ask your friends who does this kind of work. The person who goes door-to-door is looked at suspiciously, and even then there is no way they could charge anywhere near a standard rate. The rich person wants to know that if you do a bad job (say the magic goes away in a week), that they can demand that you fix things up... a reputable professional mage (using "Profession") has the kind of contacts and respect that earns them money. Maybe if you tell the DM you are picking a particular type of spell to memorize, just for the sole purpose of earning some cash... he should let you get a +2 circumstance or synergy bonus for using your profession skill.
ArchmageOmega 05-05-04, 08:57 PM	Yeah. That's true. I think, personally, I'd handle it by just saying (at least at low levels) that it is very difficult to find anyone willing to trust you enough to pay you the normal rate. (But, if they somehow did find someone, I would let them charge the normal rate.) [Edit: I just thought of a cool comprimise I might use in my next campaign (if any of my players play a caster :P). You could have the Profession [magic user] but let them get a chance to cast a specific spell if they roll a 20. To be fair, I'd probably allow something similar for other professions though.]
Arbitrary Aardvark 05-06-04, 01:22 PM	Originally posted by olshanski_home It is my opinion that the game is called "Dungeons and Dragons"... if you want to earn cash fast, you should be delving in dungeons, fighting dragons, collecting bounties, etc... not setting up a drycleaning shop or VD clinic. If you are a player and and that level of detail, and your DM is not satisfied with the mechanic of the "profession" skill... then feel free to roleplay anything you want. I probably should not have posted anything, since I feel that the Profession mechanic should cover any sort of money-earning schemes that mundane non-adventuring wizards would dream up. I think this topic only comes up with really stingy DMs. The king where the bounties don't cover the cost of the Cure Light Wound wand you end up using, where the king takes half the magic items from the quest (which weren't that good anyway) and 3/4 of the money, and where the dragon is poorer than a graduate assistant.
Iver Gearsham 05-09-04, 02:54 AM	There is a simple answer just give half price just like selling a sword you find in a dungen it costs 50 to buy you sell it for 25. Why because you don't have a shop and can't wait for a buyer to give you top GP. As for selling a perticuler spell I think who could at lest in theory pay for your service? How many farmers have silver let alone gold on hand to pay for anything? skip plowing farmers feilds unless you want to plow the farmers wife or daughter. I am going to try this go to a caravan staging area and using Shrink Item to reduce cargo for merchants alowing them to travel faster and or the ability to store/hide very valuable items as inocent cloth.