Post/Author/DateTime	Post
snowlynx 05-02-05, 04:58 PM	I am looking for solutions on how to solve the following problem: 1)The group has no leader. 2)The players in this game are capable of working together, but for this game it seems they can't work together at all. The people with healing spells don't bother to heal the rest of the group after combats, one of the warriors spends more time moving then they do shooting their bow, and everyone forgets to add in their combat bonuses from the bard's song. 3) A few of the players are trying to switch characters every couple of game sesisons, making it hard to keep the 'togetherness' of the group. I think we need a leader, or something to keep the group together. I am thinking, at the very least, that my character should avoid even bothering to fight in combats after he's been severly injured; as vengeful as this sounds, I suspect it will cause the players to focus on what's going on in the game, as they will suddenly be the ones taking hits. Is there some nicer way I can strongly encourage a little more of both paying attention to the game, as well as working together? Me remaking to be a leader is not an option, as it will greatly aggravate the DM who has been trying to integrate people's back history with what we're doing in the game.
fallabel 05-02-05, 05:25 PM	Why can't you be the leader? You don't need specific stats in order to lead. Just take charge.
snowlynx 05-02-05, 05:35 PM	It takes a certain personality to lead. My character was suppoed to have the complete and utter mindset of servant- at the time, it worked, but the previous leaders have switched characters.
fallabel 05-02-05, 05:46 PM	Then your character needs to have a revelation. Since the group is in such need of a leader, the character should finally realize his hidden potential as a dynamic commander. Otherwise, if you still refuse to take the lead, then you shouldn't criticize the other players.
snowlynx 05-02-05, 06:00 PM	The truth is, I don't mind a lack of leadership normally, but it seems with this group it just doesn't work. The character's don't use their abilities unless asked. I will talk to the DM about recreating I suppose. (He will KILL me for it. Oh well.)
Fargren 05-02-05, 06:14 PM	The truth is, I don't mind a lack of leadership normally, but it seems with this group it just doesn't work. The character's don't use their abilities unless asked. I will talk to the DM about recreating I suppose. (He will KILL me for it. Oh well.) Kill you or your character? If you mena your character, seems like that's what you need. Without an acceptable leader, most parties just suck. The CR is based on a team-working party, not independant players
snowlynx 05-02-05, 06:19 PM	*lol* Kill me, not the character. If he killed my character, I would make a leader, but he wouldn't do it, as it would likely disrupt the game even more.
Shaken, not Stunned 05-02-05, 08:40 PM	Have you said any of this to your DM yet?
snowlynx 05-02-05, 08:54 PM	He is well aware of the problem; he is currently looking for motivation because the group will otherwise sit at the local tavern and do nothing, which is exactly why he will kill me if I remake....as he has already included my background in the motivation. I am still debating just moving to a position where the arhcers and long range folks get attacked, as I will take less blows (and since the long range attackers won't heal me, it seems fair that the hits are distributed evenly.)
Shaken, not Stunned 05-02-05, 09:10 PM	So your DM is taking steps to set a story in motion in an attempt to solve the problem. What do you want us to tell you? He is doing what he can to rectify the problem. You should do what you can to rectify the problem. "My character concept isn't condusive to leadershp roles" is the best example of extremist role-playing as a detriment to the game. Get off your tail and fix this problem so you can start gaming.
Capt. Pixel 05-02-05, 09:42 PM	An attitude of servitude, hmm? How about an epiphany modelled after someone like Spartacus? Perhaps a near-death experience suddenly emboldens your PC to rise to the mantle of Leadership. It seems to me that the variations are endless. If you want the job - take it! :cool:
Torack 05-03-05, 01:28 PM	Kill the campaign and have the players roll up new characters. Make sure you're a leader-type that intends to stay. Alternatively you could talk to the players OOC and ask their opinion on the going-ons. I doubt your DM is the one to blame for this. Some character personalities just don't work well as a team. *Remembers fondly his gnome illusionst Levinith*
snowlynx 05-04-05, 01:14 PM	No, the DM is definately not to blame. I know he's trying. Captain Pixel's idea sounds amusing and I will look into it, though I'm certain it will mean an alignment change. I don't think the DM would be disagreeable with it. He was thinking of starting a new game a while ago, when his game lost all continuity because people were switching characrers left and right. I will encourage this line, and I did create a concept who can easily lead for that game, though I may make a different character if I know said character isn't going to work with the group...because I know for the next game, we're all going to talk about our character ideas with each other and so the group will have a chance to make sure we're all on the same track. Some character personalities just don't work well as a team. Hey, it sounds like this group, exactly.... Also, my character did make an attempt at organizing the group, but it has caused some conflict; one of the characters fights when we trying to be diplomatic, and runs when we need to be together as a group, and will only listen to a different character whose player never plays characters to lead the group. He is currently trying to convice this character to leave the group, I think because the player is hoping to force the other players to switch characters....eh, bloody player politics are a little unnerving. I will talk with the other players as well, of course.
bluplanet 05-12-05, 10:56 AM	I'm sure this is cliche but what about the idea of a reluctant leader being the best kind? Instead of a power-hungry arrogant type, you've got someone who only wishes for the best of the party, and so decides to lead. Of course, this is simplistic but it might work out well for your party/character concept.
Thorak 05-12-05, 01:09 PM	There are many kinds of leadership. Authoritatian "Go there, do this" is only one kind. With the group you have, you might have greater success going more with a "wise old man" approach, though you have to be neither wise, old, nor a man. Make suggestions. If you're the only one making suggestions, they'll be followed. At the least, they'll have to decide why not to follow the suggestion. Which is fine, because either they're developing democratic leadership, or electing someone else. My current party, going for almost a year now and approaching level 10, consists of my character the Paladin/Kensai, a CN 17 year old Barbarian who's the epitome of a frustrated teen (with a really big axe), a CG Cleric of Pelor who's 72 and was turned into a frog for 50 years, and a CN or TN Sorceror, who's apparently a greedy manipulative little beast who only tries to do things that benefit himself, but occasionally has fits of morals. Are we designed to "fit"? Good god no. The Paladin, especially, is a bit off kilter with the rest of the party. But it works; they're all mostly friends, and they save each other's hide. As for leadership, what works for us is that one of the three antsy characters (everyone but the cleric) will wander off for whatever reason. The paladin, because he sees/hears something that needs smiting/saving, the Barbarian because he's bored, or the sorceror because he might be able to snag something on his own and not have to share. Then, when we inevitably run into trouble, everyone saves them. At which point, there's either an objective so blatantly clear that we all agree to go after it, or someone wanders off again. It's silly, but it works.
Twisted Puppy 05-12-05, 02:16 PM	There are many kinds of leadership. Authoritatian "Go there, do this" is only one kind. With the group you have, you might have greater success going more with a "wise old man" approach, though you have to be neither wise, old, nor a man. Make suggestions. If you're the only one making suggestions, they'll be followed. At the least, they'll have to decide why not to follow the suggestion. Which is fine, because either they're developing democratic leadership, or electing someone else. Very well put Thorak. You might also try to lead by example rather than by sheer force of personality. Regardless of your character's mind-set, he/she can lead simply by doing what needs to be done. Need to rescue the damsel in distress? Go for it. If the other characters would let the quiet, helpful soul do it on his own, he's better off without them. Remember there are three types of people: 1) Those who make things happen 2) Those who watch things happen 3) Those who wonder what happened.
ToxicWiz 05-12-05, 03:22 PM	Leader is more of a title than anything else. I've lead entire NPC assaults to a tiny party in a huge ambush. Generally if you suggest a tactic that's going to work, and your group can see the reasoning behind it, they will do it. If they don't know basic group dynamics, teach them. going in a circle when surrounded, getting the cleric to a dieing party member, keeping the wizard at arms length from enemies, all just small things that can keep a group working. you may want your DM to present class challenges, like making the fighter admit defeat to a magically enhanced Door, but with a lock that most lvl 1 rogues can get through, or getting the rogue to throw down a rope to the fighter who can unjam the big metal door at the top of the cliff. all just my suggestions, hope they help! :D (I apologise for the spelling)
snowlynx 05-13-05, 10:05 AM	Unfortunately, I have now found out what the difficulty was. Last session, only 4 characters ended up going on the adventure. The group worked perfectly. I guess it's too many players (6). The players simply cannot pay attention to the game when it's so many people trying to do stuff.