Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DyloniusFunk 03-16-07, 10:57 PM	I got a session tomorrow so I apologize for not giving more time to get advice but any ideas are appreciated. Right now my group is around level 4-5. We are playing in Eberron. I am a Cleric of the Host, the entire pantheon with the Healing and War domains. My party is a monk, my friend and fellow Red Gauntlet, a mercenary company from Players Guide to Eberron. He hired the rest of the party before we began, which is a Warlock, wizard, and one other character whose class I can't remember. We also had rouge but he was killed the last session and I don't know what his new character will be. Anyway I had missed a couple of sessions due to being away on February break and because of bad weather so when I got back in I found out my character had left the group. We were all heading to Sharn to investigate the possible BBEG and this airship he was supposed to have. My guy caught an earlier airship and went ahead to Sharn to drop off mail at the Host Temple from the other town. Apparently my airship was attacked by pirates and was rescued by mounted flying cavalry. I'm not sure of the exact details but in any case the ship was a wreck and we were all brought to Stormhome, the base of House Lyander. I meet up with the other guys there who had apparently stolen the BBEG’s airship and were brining it to Lyander to get it fixed. It wasn't a Lyander ship so we have no risk there and the other guy had stolen it first so I guess it will take some time to determine we have it now. Anyway we all reunite, I get caught up on things and find out that the wizard and warlock were brothers and that their foster mother was a house matron of Lyander. So as you can guess there's been a lot of role-playing in this session, getting everyone on the same page, and getting plot hooks. Everyone seems to be antsy for come combat. So the DM has the matron tell us they will look into the airship (Apparently it's a new line, special job, only 5 in existence) if we deal with a kraken like monster that’s causing havoc. We get sent to an old military warehouse/ catacomb from back when the island was an Aundair military base. We’re told to follow this path through the catacomb to some caves where they believe the monster lives. We have some combat with spider like creatures and in that room we find a half elf girl weeping. She's freaking out and in hysterics. The monk tries to talk to her and I get ready to heal her if she's injured. The Wizard makes a successful Knowledge (Arcane) check and is told the girl is actually one of the monsters we were fighting. He whispers that to us but we are so close together she hears and bites the monk. He gets poisoned but we knock her out. Now they had already given me a bunch of divine wands they had found earlier to use so I use the delay poison one on him but I don't have any poison cleansing spells ready. Actually I don't think I can get any till I reach level 5. Anyway we find out that we had cleared the top level and had to go down to the catacombs proper. Now these catacombs are of the Host of Honor and Battle, Dol Dorn I believe. So from my point of view this creature is a defiler of a Host holy sight and should be killed. But the monk wants to keep her with him and ties her up. She is only knocked out and has returned to her half elven form. I really want to kill her though because like I said she is not a person she is a monster. I don't really know why he wants to keep her because this was where we ended the session. He is the leader of the party and I’ve trusted him so far so my gut says to trust him here. And while we are no longer millitary, we did serve together and I understand the importance of a chain of command. But I also am a servant of the Host and for this foul beast to live while it feasts in a place where the dead rest is unbearable. Now I should note we found another door that was barred that we didn't go down. Presumably that will go down to the main catacombs since this upper area had a lot of locked rooms and boxes of surplus military gear so it seemed more like storage. So sorry if I rambled there but I guess I’m wondering what to do when we meet tomorrow afternoon. 1. Should I insist that he release her and we kill her? She did poison him and is not a half elf, but a spider beast. I don't want to cause any party conflict but I feel it's what my character would do.
Morwen 03-17-07, 12:40 AM	Good characters would generally be more interested in taking prisoners than killing them. Who knows, maybe you can learn something useful from her/it through interrogation.
JulesCARV 03-17-07, 12:58 AM	It all depends. What are the cleric's personal views? Which Sovereigns, if any, does he hold in the highest regard? I could see a devout worshipper of Dol Arrah thinking she should be killed, for instance, because she was dishonorable in combat, she never surrendered (she was knocked out instead), and killing is generally cool with Dol Arrah if it's for a decent reason since she's a warrior goddess. A follower of Olladra, on the other hand, might be more hesitant and more focused on mercy and have problems with killing. Of course, you might revere all of the Sovereigns equally, but even in that case, the Sovereign Host is theologically "loose" with a lot of differing opinions, so you can develop your own philosophy about this -- or not, and just go with your gut and not worry too much about deeper theological matters. By the way, is this a question about what would be the most in character thing for your cleric to do, or what is the right thing for your character to do? Even for good characters, these two aren't identical, although they're obviously closer together than for neutral or evil characters. If you want to know the right thing to do, IMHO, it would be to keep her prisoner and not kill her. If she tries to escape, then kill her.
kelvinaw273 03-17-07, 03:57 AM	I would definitely say your cleric is more of the lawful and less of the good if he wants this person/creature dead. For all you know she has sought shelter where she can find it and was only defending herself as best she knew. Bring her to justice by all means, but don't just dish out a mace to the skull and claim it as 'right'. Not if you want to maintain that Good part of your alignment.
DyloniusFunk 03-17-07, 08:59 AM	It all depends. What are the cleric's personal views? Which Sovereigns, if any, does he hold in the highest regard? That's actually something i'm working out as we go sinc ei'm still not 100% sure of the different gods and their roles. I think the names throw me off a bit. I could see a devout worshipper of Dol Arrah thinking she should be killed, for instance, because she was dishonorable in combat, she never surrendered (she was knocked out instead), and killing is generally cool with Dol Arrah if it's for a decent reason since she's a warrior goddess. Yes she never did surrender and she poisoned my teammate. If i rememvbere corectly i belive it is a catacomb of Dol Arrah. By the way, is this a question about what would be the most in character thing for your cleric to do, or what is the right thing for your character to do? Even for good characters, these two aren't identical, although they're obviously closer together than for neutral or evil characters. If you want to know the right thing to do, IMHO, it would be to keep her prisoner and not kill her. If she tries to escape, then kill her. Honestly i'm not sure. I think i could come up with an in character reason to want to kill her. Mostly it has to bdo with what she ahs been doing in a place that is supposed to be for the resting of the dead. The wierd part is that we found three of these creatures in a room behind a locked door, almost Gygaxian (did people here just invent that word out of thin air?) I suppose i could keep her alive if she tells me the nature of her poison so i can make a antibody since i won't be able to removen the poison till i get 3rd level spells.
DyloniusFunk 03-17-07, 09:28 AM	I would definitely say your cleric is more of the lawful and less of the good if he wants this person/creature dead. For all you know she has sought shelter where she can find it and was only defending herself as best she knew I doubt that as the door to the catacombs was a large stone door in a stonewall that took us over 20 minutes to get open. As i stated they seemed to be in there, behind a locked door with no other way in or out. My guess is someone else brought them there, maybe someone connected to the kraken creature we're supposed to find. Bring her to justice by all means, but don't just dish out a mace to the skull and claim it as 'right'. Not if you want to maintain that Good part of your alignment. Well i should mention again t hat the only person who said she was the creature was the wizard. So i'm gonna start the session by talking to him and asking him how sure he is that she is the creature. If he is confident in his assessment than i will bring the issue up with the monk. I have no intention to do something abrupt. But the problem is i don't know how serious the monks player is taking this. I know all these guys OOC since we all go to school at the same University, and see each other a lot. But this is the first time i've gamed with them. So the monk could be doing this because it is to him the correct thing to do. Or it could be for him a gag, to be carrying around a girl. I don't really know but until i do i'm assuming his serious. he has been pretty serious in character up to this point. I guess i just don't know why he's taken an investment in this. And becasue he's my friend and partner it makes my decision ahrder.
The White Sorcerer 03-17-07, 09:49 AM	If the creature is intelligent, keep it alive and interrogate it. Also, killing prisoners is propably frowned upon by both Dol Arrah and Dol Dorn (Arrah because it isn't honorable, Dorn because it isn't in the least bit glorious), and likely by Aureon too (because it's basically an unlawful execution). Remember, the Sovereign Host are deities of civilization. Leave barbaric acts like killing prisoners to the disciples of the Dark Six.
DyloniusFunk 03-17-07, 01:00 PM	Well the game is gonna start soon so i thank everyone who responded. I decided i would talk with the wizard and ask him how sure he is that the girl is the creature as we never actually saw her polymorph or anything. And i will tell the monk that while i dislike the idea of keeping around a beast who POISONED him around just ebcasue she's in a cute looking shape right now, i will not do anything for now. But if she tries anything all bets are off. I will let everyone know how things turned out if i remember as our sessions run well into the 8 hour range. Anyway thanks again for the advice.
DreamerInsane 03-17-07, 06:36 PM	The creature sounds an awful lot like an Aranea. You should've gotten a Spot check to notice something was off. Basically, Aranea are intelligent, sorcerous, shapechanging giant spiders. They have three forms: 1. Giant Spider. Has webs, poison, moves FAST 2.Medium-sized, unique humanoid (Basically means that every Aranea has precisely one humanoid form. For example, the one you encountered always looks like a spider or that specific half-elf girl). Can't use webs and poison. 3. Hybrid. Basically, looks like it's in humanoid form, but retains it's spinnerets and fangs (and, consequently, the poison). Noticing that something isn't quite right has a Spot DC of 18, IIRC. Aranea dislike Fire spells and favour illusions and enchantments. I'd be keeping very careful watch over your arachnid friend. They're not exactly harmless. If there's one bright side in this it is that the poison isn't lethal. It can render people helpless, but not kill.
kelvinaw273 03-18-07, 04:09 AM	Another point is that Aranea are not specifically good or evil ... so you may not have an evil despoiler on your hands, perhaps she was walled into the section against her will?
DyloniusFunk 03-18-07, 01:40 PM	Well the session went off but rather late. We had a snowstorm here and the DM is on the grounds crew so wew didn't game on till around 6 PM. But we did game on and we ended up fighting a lot of undead including a mummy and a shadow that knocked me down to 3 STR. But at the nd thew group got the lid off one msot ornately decorated tomb in the palce and the warlock said there was magic on it. Turns out there was some magical gear on the bodsy and the NE Hexblade and the Warlock who i belive is also NE begam to loot it. As this is a Host catacomb i objected to this act of tomb robbery and i fetl i was justified this since i had earleir agreed to bury the rouge who carried a symbol of the Traveler, one of the Dark Six on him. But i nevr got a chance to find out how seriously devoted he was so i agreed to do this deed. But i felt grave robbing was over the line even thouhg the monk said that i had no objection to them looting the rouge after he died. And that they could use the items more than the dead guy could. I tried to stop the Hexblade but with a Str of 3 i wasn't doing much. She ignored me whihc i think is because the player isn't the confrontational type, lucky for me since she could ahve probably killed if she put her heart into it. So now i feel like i've betrayed the Host by allowing this to happen. Now i don't know how devoted this paticualr officer was to the Host only that this is a catacomb with statues of Dol Arrah. And this is Aundair which is not teh msot religious nation in Eberron. Anyway i told the guys that i couldn't stop them from doing this but i would remember this action. So know i need to know what to do to them. Should i withhgold heals, perhaps focusiong primarily on the monk and not worrying about every scratch the Hexblade or Warlock get? Or should i focus my buffs on myself and take charge in attacking and let them handle their own healing? I want to do somethng to them for what isee is blatant grave robbery but i don't know what to do. Any ideas?
Prator_the_Legendary 03-18-07, 01:59 PM	I don't think you should withhold healing, but you should restrict it. Heal them if they're about to die, but otherwise let 'em bleed. Don't heal ability damage to them either, unless it's crippling. And if they complain, give them a couple proverbs or psalms from the Book of the Host, or whatever.
Ace_of_time 03-18-07, 11:09 PM	Well the session went off but rather late. We had a snowstorm here and the DM is on the grounds crew so wew didn't game on till around 6 PM. But we did game on and we ended up fighting a lot of undead including a mummy and a shadow that knocked me down to 3 STR. But at the nd thew group got the lid off one msot ornately decorated tomb in the palce and the warlock said there was magic on it. Turns out there was some magical gear on the bodsy and the NE Hexblade and the Warlock who i belive is also NE begam to loot it. As this is a Host catacomb i objected to this act of tomb robbery and i fetl i was justified this since i had earleir agreed to bury the rouge who carried a symbol of the Traveler, one of the Dark Six on him. But i nevr got a chance to find out how seriously devoted he was so i agreed to do this deed. But i felt grave robbing was over the line even thouhg the monk said that i had no objection to them looting the rouge after he died. And that they could use the items more than the dead guy could. I tried to stop the Hexblade but with a Str of 3 i wasn't doing much. She ignored me whihc i think is because the player isn't the confrontational type, lucky for me since she could ahve probably killed if she put her heart into it. So now i feel like i've betrayed the Host by allowing this to happen. Now i don't know how devoted this paticualr officer was to the Host only that this is a catacomb with statues of Dol Arrah. And this is Aundair which is not teh msot religious nation in Eberron. Anyway i told the guys that i couldn't stop them from doing this but i would remember this action. So know i need to know what to do to them. Should i withhgold heals, perhaps focusiong primarily on the monk and not worrying about every scratch the Hexblade or Warlock get? Or should i focus my buffs on myself and take charge in attacking and let them handle their own healing? I want to do somethng to them for what isee is blatant grave robbery but i don't know what to do. Any ideas? What is the alignment of your group? It sound to me like your're the only good one here and if that is the case then this will happen from time to time. Be good means helping those in need and waiting to long to heal could cost the whole group. I don't know if your PC's a jokely type or not so ether talk to them about it in Character to find out what is up with the group. And be careful enchantment spells can kill faster than most spells.
DyloniusFunk 03-18-07, 11:13 PM	What is the alignment of your group? It sound to me like your're the only good one here and if that is the case then this will happen from time to time. Be good means helping those in need and waiting to long to heal could cost the whole group. I don't know if your PC's a jokely type or not so ether talk to them about it in Character to find out what is up with the group. And be careful enchantment spells can kill faster than most spells. NE Hexblade, CG Warlock who i called NE in my previous post but i was in correct aabout that. I'm fairly certain the wizard and monk are good, i know the monk is. Not sure what the rouges player will be when he finally comes in but i think he was evil with his last character.
Ace_of_time 03-18-07, 11:26 PM	I had a lawful group one time and every person dead or not they would strip of anything they could sell. so I ask them why why and they told me that the people that were dead would not mind losing their stuff and those who still live this is their 2nd chance to turn from their wicked ways. it doesn't seem to be evil steal from the dead but not lawful and neu means ether or type deal. still you are part of the group and a big part so talking in character would still be the thing to do maybe they just see it different than you do.
Gedrin 03-19-07, 07:54 PM	Here's the rules: A :Has she commited crimes worthy of death? She's attempted to murder one of the cleric's party members and defiled holy sites. In most places (IMC), the two of those together wind up being something for which people are executed. In some places, either would do. B: Are you within reach of the jurisdiction of a just authority? Probably. Most catacombs are in urban areas. Most urban areas are governed by some sort of proper legal authority. C: Can you contain the prisoner long enough to deliver her to the authorities without placing innocents (including yourselves) in mortal danger? She's currently unconcious, and you probably don't have far to go. So, under these circumstances, it would be improper to summarily execute this prisoner. Were B and C the opposite, that would be a different story. Your character should probably thank the monk for reminding you that the law must be upheld and that her proper trial and execution will act for justice not just for her crimes, but remind all who witness that proper justice rules in these lands. Remember, being actively LG means that you not only punish the wicked, but also that you uphold the law and work to strengthen and correct it where needed. You are bound by the proper procedures, and just because your holy ground was defiled by your prisoners doesn't exempt you from that. Those rules are there to facilitate the punishment of the wicked, and the protection of the innocent. Don't undermind them by taking the law into your own hands. Take the time to step outside and turn your prisoner over to whomever is responsible for containing such people.
Ace_of_time 03-19-07, 09:49 PM	What are you worried is going to happen to you (in game) for being wrong about killing her?
DyloniusFunk 03-19-07, 11:51 PM	Here's the rules: A :Has she commited crimes worthy of death? She's attempted to murder one of the cleric's party members and defiled holy sites. In most places (IMC), the two of those together wind up being something for which people are executed. In some places, either would do. B: Are you within reach of the jurisdiction of a just authority? Probably. Most catacombs are in urban areas. Most urban areas are governed by some sort of proper legal authority. C: Can you contain the prisoner long enough to deliver her to the authorities without placing innocents (including yourselves) in mortal danger? She's currently unconcious, and you probably don't have far to go. So, under these circumstances, it would be improper to summarily execute this prisoner. Were B and C the opposite, that would be a different story. Your character should probably thank the monk for reminding you that the law must be upheld and that her proper trial and execution will act for justice not just for her crimes, but remind all who witness that proper justice rules in these lands. Remember, being actively LG means that you not only punish the wicked, but also that you uphold the law and work to strengthen and correct it where needed. You are bound by the proper procedures, and just because your holy ground was defiled by your prisoners doesn't exempt you from that. Those rules are there to facilitate the punishment of the wicked, and the protection of the innocent. Don't undermind them by taking the law into your own hands. Take the time to step outside and turn your prisoner over to whomever is responsible for containing such people. Well the catacomb is at Stormhome the island that is the base for House Lyander, in the natiion of Aundair. But we are only using the catacomb as a apssage to find the cave where this monster is supposed to live that we have been tasked to deal with. The monk said he wants to keep ehr alive to question her. So if she ever gets awake and we can talk to ehr i'll decide what to do then. Unfortunately i'm gonna have to miss another session because i'm flying out to Vegas on Saturday and everyone else will be at school. Actually the last session she never even worek up we actually ended up carrying ehr around and if someone needed to go ahead they apssed her on to another character to carry. Luckily i wasn't carrying her when the Shadow dropped my Str to 3 or else she might have crushed me.
kelvinaw273 03-20-07, 04:30 AM	Now looking this I wondered ... A :Has she commited crimes worthy of death? She's attempted to murder one of the cleric's party members and defiled holy sites. In most places (IMC), the two of those together wind up being something for which people are executed. In some places, either would do. Defence: Dragged to site and imprisoned against her will, acted in self defence when armed looters burst into room. Launches counter-suite for return of stolen personal goods (loot), assault, intimidation and false arrest. Don'tcha just love Eberron?:D Seriously though, not every non-humanoid (or even humanoid) you entounter in a an adventure is there as an enemy to kill and take their stuff.
DyloniusFunk 03-20-07, 11:03 AM	Now looking this I wondered ... Defence: Dragged to site and imprisoned against her will, acted in self defence when armed looters burst into room. Launches counter-suite for return of stolen personal goods (loot), assault, intimidation and false arrest. Don'tcha just love Eberron?:D Seriously though, not every non-humanoid (or even humanoid) you entounter in a an adventure is there as an enemy to kill and take their stuff. Please read my first post. We never saw these creatures until we opened the locked door they were behind. if youa re accusing us of brining them there you are wrong. And they didn't even have any loot to steal. Honestly i could care less about why they are there except we've already seen this creature act hostile and attack my mate once, and i don't want it to happen again. Honestly i get the feeling the DM just threw them in there because we hadn't fought anything in a while and the monotony of moving around while the rouge searchs everywhere was getting to us. As i said the whole setup had the fell of a gygax module, locked door with monster behind with no idea how they got there and no sing of how they could survive, i.e no food or water.
kelvinaw273 03-20-07, 12:21 PM	Please read my first post. We never saw these creatures until we opened the locked door they were behind. if youa re accusing us of brining them there you are wrong. And they didn't even have any loot to steal. Honestly i could care less about why they are there except we've already seen this creature act hostile and attack my mate once, and i don't want it to happen again. Honestly i get the feeling the DM just threw them in there because we hadn't fought anything in a while and the monotony of moving around while the rouge searchs everywhere was getting to us. As i said the whole setup had the fell of a gygax module, locked door with monster behind with no idea how they got there and no sing of how they could survive, i.e no food or water. Er, I was being tongue-in-cheek there, anticipating what a good RL lawyer would argue.
Gedrin 03-20-07, 11:20 PM	Defence: Dragged to site and imprisoned against her will, acted in self defence when armed looters burst into room. Launches counter-suite for return of stolen personal goods (loot), assault, intimidation and false arrest. Don'tcha just love Eberron? Seriously though, not every non-humanoid (or even humanoid) you entounter in a an adventure is there as an enemy to kill and take their stuff. You think she's just defending her home? Would that be the "home" clearly marked as holy ground? I suppose she's protecting herself from the "looters" some of which happen to be clearly marked as members of the sect that rightfully owns the property. She could be imprisoned against her will...of course she would then have reacted to the people who slew her captors by poisoning them...while they were attempting to render her comfort and healing. Yeh... But sure, there could be some possible explanation for this particular poisonous spider shape shifter to be a fine and upstanding citizen. By no means to I pretend that it's impossible to find a corner case in a land filled with mind control, shape shifters, reincarnation and all manner of magic. That's why I recomend she be taken to the authorities and subjected to the standard truthsaying magic that would be common in Eberron. So basically, the courtroom goes like this: Judge: Did you try to murder these people? SpiderThing: I was assaulted and they're looters! I'm innocent. Truthsayer Tribunal: She's lying. On all counts. We are all agreed. Judge: Guilty Executioner: *wack* Judge: Bounty of 500gp to be paid. Next case.
kelvinaw273 03-21-07, 04:42 PM	But sure, there could be some possible explanation for this particular poisonous spider shape shifter to be a fine and upstanding citizen. By no means to I pretend that it's impossible to find a corner case in a land filled with mind control, shape shifters, reincarnation and all manner of magic. That's why I recomend she be taken to the authorities and subjected to the standard truthsaying magic that would be common in Eberron. So basically, the courtroom goes like this: Judge: Did you try to murder these people? SpiderThing: I was assaulted and they're looters! I'm innocent. Truthsayer Tribunal: She's lying. On all counts. We are all agreed. Judge: Guilty Executioner: *wack* Judge: Bounty of 500gp to be paid. Next case. That's the way to do it!