Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gemstone 08-24-04, 07:29 AM	How would a character with low wisdom, say 6, act?
markhaus 08-24-04, 07:55 AM	With a 16 intelligence and 8 wisdom my character comes up with complex plans that arent wise at all. When another player comes up with a foolish plan my character almost always backs him up. The DM has 10 gods with different names for different races, my character doesnt understand they are they same gods and asks to be blessed by every "god" whose people we encounter. He also hates the "orcish god" while worshiping his dwarven and human counterpart. Religion is based around wisdom is D&D so always get the religious stuff wrong or be unfaithful to a god or be an athiest (in D&D all athiests should have a wisdom of, at most, 6)
Arakano 08-24-04, 08:15 AM	Are you kidding? Religion might be based on wisdom, but wisdom is not based on religion! I´d say, Atheists in a world where clerics walk around raising the dead and walking on water should have 6 or less Intelligence instead of wisdom, or even low scores in both. Wisdom does not only cover "wisdom" as we see it, but also intution (does this word even exist in english? Well, whatever...). So, why your wizard may desing an elaborated plan, the cleric might instinctively feel it´s prime weakness, maybe even without comprehending all of it.
Seeker95 08-24-04, 08:39 AM	Low wisdom indicators: 1. Always asks why. 2. Acts first, considers the consequences later. 3. Second-guesses more experienced people. 4. Over-estimates his ability. 5. Ignores the directions.
CzarGarrett 08-24-04, 09:22 AM	Reckless actions. I think a Barbarian might be a good example. Strong, somewhat quick, maybe a genius. But unable to stop and think and say to himself "This is overly dangerous to do."
MarkB 08-24-04, 09:30 AM	And bear in mind that in D&D, Wisdom represents physical perceptiveness, too, which you can play up outside of formal Spot and Listen checks. Don't necessarily make your character actually short-sighted or hard of hearing, but have him tend to have a short attention span, miss things other people are saying if he's thinking about other things, and always be looking in the other direction when something important happens.
Nurgan_the_drunked 08-24-04, 09:43 AM	One way to deal with "what mental stats mean" is their in game effect, and then extrapolate from there. A low wisdom character would have: a bad "sense motive": they may be easily misled, or not consider people's desires a bad will save: they may have very little self control and be easily distracted a bad spot/ listen: not so much bad eyesight/hearing as not paying attention to things, or may not realise the importance of things they observe a bad appraise/ proffession: again, they don't see the value or importance of things I hadn't considered the religious aspect of it, but it makes a certain sense. And how devout someone is, in my opinion, measured by wisdom, not Int. A high Int implies you're good at working something out when you put your mind to it, but I'd think Wis is a measure of how "aware" you are of the world around you. But maybe wisdom is more depth of faith, and low wisdom characters believe in a simple, vague way. That's my two small-valued coins on the issue
kedi 08-31-04, 03:30 AM	Low wisdom indicators: 1. Always asks why. 2. Acts first, considers the consequences later. 3. Second-guesses more experienced people. 4. Over-estimates his ability. 5. Ignores the directions. Quoted for non-truthery. A high wisdom person might have a high intelligent score thus a lust to learn everything from people. A high wisdom person might have accepted that he's going to die nevertheless and his acts which won't hurt anyone but himself can be made so he can act without considereing things. He might be in know of his abilities and be proud of them and uses them often and might not believe since no one is perfect, any direction can be wrong. The thing with intelligent is they keep repeating themselves: A high wisdom person might do something a really low wisdom person would do. Wisdom is knowing his state, knowing his conditions, realizing the world around him, feeling how he should act. Ever wondered why most high-wis people are usually chaotic (taff the monk) and high intelligent people are lawful (taff the elves)? And a person with high wisdom may realize that there's always a bigger fish in multiverses, as it is he may devote himself to a philosophy instead of a diety. And barbarian are stupid. Not non-wise. Right opposite, nature has it's wisdom. Barbarian has some-many wisdom based skills. Reckless acts mean neither low wisdom nor low intelligent. Wisdom is not maturity.
Tifus Artwin 08-31-04, 06:07 AM	Dont think of Wisdom, as a stat, think of it more of a persons common sense, a person with high wisdom will have alot of it, the less you have the less common sense you have. And before anyone one starts quoting me, saying no thats not right and everything else, look at common sense like this, the High Int wizard makes a plan, based on what all he knows, puts in what should happen at this point and so on, the High Wis cleric, then points out several flaws, we dont know where the enemy is and so on. Also, try playing them as more the absent-minded professor. Low Wis doesnt mean they are not aware of the world around them, just means they might not take it into consideration, or might be drivin to learn, to experiment, but not be drivin to experiance the world around them, they are always in there heads think about this and that, this might work better like so ..... Id advise checking out some of the DragonLance novals and reading about the Gnomes in those, while they are mostly geunises they are not very practical nor aware that action Y will cause consiquence X no matter how many diffrent ways you attempt it. As to Barbs being stupid, they are not, they are Illiterate, they are not as generaly educated as others, that doesnt mean they dont know anything, they generaly have a better verbal history then most civilized raced have writen history. Just because a person cant read, doesnt make them stupid, its not knowing what you are talking about and still insisting that you are well educated on that subject that would make you stupid.
kedi 08-31-04, 06:16 AM	As to Barbs being stupid, they are not, they are Illiterate, they are not as generaly educated as others, that doesnt mean they dont know anything, they generaly have a better verbal history then most civilized raced have writen history. Just because a person cant read, doesnt make them stupid, its not knowing what you are talking about and still insisting that you are well educated on that subject that would make you stupid. Chaos has it's own way: Hit 'em hard, hit 'em fast, hit 'em until they stop moving. -Krusk This person is just illerate, and has no problems with it's brain, right...
Tifus Artwin 08-31-04, 07:26 AM	Kedi, I dont think quoting a Half-Orc Barb is the best way to prove me wrong there. Krusk isnt the smartest apply to fall from the tree, and his Int shows him as relitively stupid (its 6 i believe). And as to even that, Look at the Orcs, a race that is noted for being dumber then a bag of bricks. They are here, they are not going anywhere, why? because they know how to fight, they know who there enemys are, they know because there elders told them, yea, so it took them 3 times for the dwarven fortress they was seiging to come out and beat the pants off them, they still got the point, we can win this, lets go kill some farmers. The Point i was tring to make was, just because you have a low wisdom, that doesnt put you out of touch with everything around you, it just means that for some reason you dont always see what someone else might, such as that plant you are about to pick is in fact a venus flytrap. Its not that you dont know better, its that you are not playing as much attention to whats around you as you could be. Higher and Lower Int is the same way, low Int doesnt nessisaraly make you stupid, a simpilton maybe but not stupid, you might have to do something several times just to get the basics of it, while those with high Int can pick things up very fast.
SilverStar 08-31-04, 02:03 PM	I feel that a low Wisdom means inappropiate social behaviors and possibly low social skills. I personally don't believe in common sense. Why? Go a discussion board about politics and you'll see all kinds of beliefs that all center around "common sense".
Cardinal Teplin 08-31-04, 11:08 PM	I usually characters with high int and low wisdom. The easiest way is to for get common sense. I usually go for complicated and elaborate plans that would work, but probably aren't worth it. Such as carrying around a door and some carpentry tools so you can fix a good strong locked door in the dungeon when you rest for the night. Smart idea, could work, really not very sensible. Similarly it takes a really high int to work out a way of breaching a planar barrier, and a really low wis to then actually do it, to 'see what would happen'. Arguing theology with a paladin is another good example - knowledge religeon is an int based skill, and you may be really good at it, but you're not going to shake his faith with intricate arguements, will probably just annoy him, and (assuming he's a friend) its simply not a sensible thing to do.
Drachasor 09-01-04, 02:03 AM	Wisdom governs perception and will-power. If you have a low wisdom, you are naturally bad at noticing the details of your surrounding, and resisting mental effects. While Charisma governs your ability to influence others, Wisdom governs your ability to resist the influence of others and notice what other people want and how they react. While intelligence governs your ability to learn and think logically, Wisdom governs you ability to properly notice the details of your surroundings (vital for any really good plan). So, if you have a low Wisdom and a high Intelligence, you will have certain possible tendencies. You can think well, but your plans will tend to not properly account for environmental/personal factors as well as a high Wisdom character. For instance, battle plans might not entirely take into account how villians might react to you. Instead they will depend largely on just the abilities of the party. Another key point is that you will tend to not notice flaws in the plan when it is being carried out. When building a make-shift bridge, for example, you might not notice that some of those boards are rotten or cracked (only to discover it later when you use the bridge). This is the difference between being conciously aware of the practical state of affairs *now* and the theoretical solution. Clerics need Wisdom because of this practical nature of Wisdom. This is "pratical" in the sense of noticing the details of current events and then being able to react to them (because you noticed them). There is a lot of a dogma in a religion, and it is easy to get caught up in that and not notice the needs of the community or religion as a whole. Especially if you have a high intelligence and low wisdom. Hence high Wisdom is good for Clerics. High Charisma and low Wisdom means that you have a strong presence, and you can make forceful arguements. However, you don't always pick the best arguement to make. A High Wisdom would allow you to get a better feel of what the listener likes to hear and what influences them in particular. A high Charisma can make up this slack to an extent, but only to an extent. Anyhow, that's how I see it. You can play a low Wisdom in a number of ways though. It could mean you are fairly stubborn once you get going and don't heed advice or indications that what you are doing is bad. (Mind-influencing effects work easily on you in this instance because once they shift your mind a bit, you are just as stubborn sticking to that change). On the other hand, it could mean you are a ditz, and tend to not notice anything going on around you. You might be quite smart or you might not, nonetheless you practically have to bump into something to notice it (how you react after bumping into it is a matter of your Dex). You could even play a character that tries very hard to notice things around them and the attitudes that people have, but is just really, really bad at it. They try but just can't manage it well. Perhaps trying to notice the surroundings tends to make them focus on just one thing and ignore everything else; they just can't "focus" any the general vicinity. Trying to read people leads to jumping to conclusions that are often wrong. Wether you want this trying to actually acheive any Wisdom change in the long run is a matter to decide every 4 levels. You can always play this out a bit by increasing his wisdom-based skills, indicating that he is learning some coping systems. -Drachasor
cambric 09-01-04, 10:49 AM	A wizard and cleric are walking down the road when it suddenly begins to rain. The wizard knows it's raining, but doesn't have the sense to get out of the rain...the cleric realizes something changed, and when told, knows that they should get out of the rain. Quote from a movie, "A man loves the feel of rain on his face" the old wise man says, as he pulls open his umbrella, "yes, but a wise man knows to get out of the rain."
Drachasor 09-01-04, 11:21 AM	A wizard and cleric are walking down the road when it suddenly begins to rain. The wizard knows it's raining, but doesn't have the sense to get out of the rain...the cleric realizes something changed, and when told, knows that they should get out of the rain. I think it is more like: A wizard and a cleric are walking down the road far from a town when it suddenly begins to rain. The Wizards knows they should seek shelter *if* it starts to rain, but doesn't know it is raining. The Cleric notices it is raining and tells tells the Wizard, who replies "we should seek shelter." The Wizard begins looking looking for a shelter, but not house or trees are neaby. The Cleric notices a small cave in the in the distance, and leads the Wizard there, where they rest out of the rain. Of course the Wizard has a wisdom of 3 and the Cleric has an intelligence of 3 in this instance. Quote from a movie, "A man loves the feel of rain on his face" the old wise man says, as he pulls open his umbrella, "yes, but a wise man knows to get out of the rain." One thing to keep in mind is that most "Wise Men" in movies are of at least average intelligence too, if not above average. In D&D terms, that is. Wisdom currently isn't quite what most people think it is, imho (again the D&D version of it). I almost wonder if 4th edition should give everyone 8 or so ability scores, instead of the standard 6. That's a big change though (perception would be one of the additions*, and you'd need to fiddle around with what we currently have too). -Drachasor *Comeliness could always be added back in.
Myst_the_Moonscout 09-06-04, 12:37 AM	High Intelligence low wisdom would be Kronk from The Emperors New Groove. (or is it the other way around?)
Drachasor 09-06-04, 02:07 AM	High Intelligence low wisdom would be Kronk from The Emperors New Groove. (or is it the other way around?) I don't think it is either, he's low wisdom and low intelligence. He is also very good natured (just not smart enough to really realize how evil the person he is serving is). -Drachasor
Tevish Szat 09-06-04, 02:51 AM	Wisdom does not equal relegion. those with a deep connection with the Powers (clerics) need a greater wisdom in order to maintain such a connection, but that does not mean that the Athar are chronically low on wisdom, despite the fact that they beleive the gods are frauds.
Gemstone 09-06-04, 03:48 AM	Perhaps the disbeliver belives that gods are just really powerful monsters? Low wisdom wouldn't automaticly make you a disbeliver... in our party we have a REALLY low int and wis half-orc, who follows grumsh to the single word. If Grumsh says: It would be nice with a cup of coffe! He would invent it for him
Myst_the_Moonscout 09-06-04, 02:17 PM	I don't think it is either, he's low wisdom and low intelligence. He is also very good natured (just not smart enough to really realize how evil the person he is serving is). -Drachasor I wouldn't say he is low INT (but I wouldn't say he's "smart" either) as he is a quick learner (the short order food thing), is fluent in "Squirrel", and has enough logic to tell Eazma her labeling system is flawed. In DnD terms, his not knowing Eazma is evil is a sign of low WIS (sense motive) as is his lack of foresight in not realizing that swatting a fly into his head will knock him over.
Flagonpaw 09-06-04, 08:46 PM	Aloof is a good description. Think C-3PO. Or if you want the sinister side of low will powered, think of Dr. Zachary Smith from Lost in Space. The good natured representative for this sort of thing would be Dan Ackroyd's Ray from Ghostbusters.
MattD121 09-06-04, 09:15 PM	Yea I always thought low wis bassically meant you had a more and more sever case of ADD, and not very good common sense. An intelligent person could tell you the capital of an obscure country, a wise person could beat you in chess. That kind of thing.
Nuffink 09-07-04, 05:19 AM	Great examples Flagonpaw. Can anyone else think of any other characters from movies etc who'd fit the bill of low wisdom (I'm in low int and wis mode at the moment so I can't think of any)? I'm about to start playing a rogue with low Wis - I figured that would just make me easily distracted. 'Yeah sure we should be getting on with the quest but I just saw something interesting over there - lets go have a look, we'll have plenty of time to complete the quest ... <later> oops'. Or the potentially fatal 'Oh I hadn't noticed how late it was, do you think we'll make it back before dark?'