How would you feel if your DM... [Archive] - Wizards Community

How would you feel if your DM... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ephealy
12-26-04, 02:21 PM The PCs in one of the campaigns I'm DMing are all Evil. They serve an evil god as his muscle in the material world, and as they grow in power, I want to make them more iconic - more embued with their god's character and powers. Some would say that the players choose their PC's class and PrC(s) - and that is where their powers come from. That's fine, but I want to flavor them with a touch of their malevolent benefactor.

One way I've done this is through minor artifacts and such, but I plan on changing the very nature of the PCs as they get higher in level. For instance, one of them will slowly change into a vampire over time, with all the related bonuses and penalties accruing to him just as if he'd taking levels as a vampire. This is not something I will allow them to choose, and I won't tell them it is happeneing. They will simply have to figure it out as time goes by.

I have tried determining what the players see their characters desires and direction to be for the future ... using that as a guide to determining just how their god's character will manifest within the PCs. However, no-one is perfect, and without directly asking them, I can't be sure. And asking them would spoil the surprise...

How would you feel, as a player, if your DM did this to you? Would you feel cheated or that he was messing with your PC too much? Would you not care, as long as it made the game more fun? As long as it advanced the story et al?

Basically, how do you, as players, feel about DMs "meddling" with your PC in this way, without your consent or input?
Arkonth
12-26-04, 02:29 PM Well actually our DM has something like this in our own campaign. The moon (Mar) acts as a source of magic and slowly soaks into a character eventually altering them. Generally this change is beneficial (our cleric manifests a warhammer out of his arm) but sometimes not (our wizard turns into a chaotic evil weretiger whenver he fights at night).

So far no one has objected to these changes and our DM tailored them based on how we play our characters so it actually gave us a roleplaying boost.

If your changes are something like that and match the characters then I doubt anyone will mind.
Shard of Suzail
12-26-04, 04:39 PM I`m in two minds about this. My gm gets excited about a lot of stuff. Now, i play a neutral cleric of death and one day he said to me "wouldnt it be cool if you could just sense undead as a natural ability?". I had a think about this and discouraged him from giving it to me. There was no reason, really, for me to get that ability free other than he liked the idea at the time.

I, instead, encouraged him to show his appreciation for my character in item creation. For instance, one of the villains we fought used a scythe as a weapon, which happens to be the weapon favoured by my deity. I had to pick up a fighter level to be able to use it, but it was still a nice thing to see a weapon in the campaign that was put in there with my character in mind. At the end of the day, i could simply put it down if i had had enough of it and, in the end, it was outgrown by the party and replaced with a bastard sword.

Items are temporary, but cool. Locations are likewise cool, so my gm may reward me by having the party stumble upon a really good spot where i could build a stronghold or a temple. Again, changing the world to suit the characters a bit better, though with them still choosing if they wished to follow the change or leave it.

Messing with the character, though, i take affront to, unless its something i have signed up for. In our Rokugan game (legend of the five rings, now eastern adventures d20 rokugan), my samurai signed up with the sinister force known as the living shadow. I got strange shadow powers from my gm and strange allies, but that was fine, since i signed up for it.

My current cleric hasnt signed up for anything, as such. I`m not a member of a strange society, havent tried to pick up a wierd prestige class (like alienist) and generally live a normal player life. If, one day, i started being able to sense undead, then i`d be a bit miffed. If, however, i drank vampire blood or was struck by the after effects of a wierd ritual, then i`d probably be a lot more inclined to go "fair enough, i signed on for that".

Mostly though, if i want wierd powers and strange character alterations, i`d expect to get that from a prestige class choice, like dragon disciple or geomancer. I`d work for my wings and strange eyes, rather than having them inflicted upon me.
Razoreface
12-26-04, 05:14 PM For instance, one of them will slowly change into a vampire over time

If a DM did that to me, I'd one day feel an impulse to watch the sun rise.

Better die when he can be replaced than in the middle of a fight because of crappier than normal hitpoints for the character.

A DM of mine had a campaign where everyone was destined to do certain things, and we had to keep switching off between two characters because the campaign was all over the place. The first character of mine kept getting strange powers that were really not useful, so I spent most of the time using the second character, who for a long time had no powers at all, because the DM couldn't think of any, and I wouldn't offer any suggestions. Everyone else had powers that were more often than not, really irritating. Powerful, creative, and most of the time fitting (for the primary characters... the secondary or replacement ones either didn't have one or had ones that were really strange or just randomly powerful), but really irritating.
Zetakya
12-26-04, 05:45 PM Have him manifest the "first signs of the change" and once he figures out what it is, he can either choose to "throw himself into his doom" or "heroically resist the twisting horror", as decided by the character.
Gurv
12-26-04, 05:53 PM It mostly depends on your players. If you are giving them something that really fits their characters, and are useful or interesting, then I think they will enjoy it.

But if the powers come with more drawbacks than they are worth, then they will assume that you are just trying to make their lives miserable. Being a vampire is awesome, but the drawbacks are almost more than a PC can handle. But if the powers and drawbacks come slowly, then maybe that will give time to adjust.

I would see what happens when you give them lesser powers. If they seem annoyed, don't do it anymore. But if they look into the powers, investigate them, consider continuing with your plan.
Asciiman
12-26-04, 08:40 PM Go with what Gurv said.

Slowly start the changes, if the PC's get irratated then don't do it anymore, leave them as they are and give them the ability to change it back, and don't explain what happened cause it may clue in the rest of the Players as to what you are doing.

After all is said and done, if they like the change then keep it, if not, construct an adventure to allow them to change back to the way they were before.

In the end, the most important thing to remember, is cater to your characters in a challenging and fun way, cause if even one person isn't having fun, then it needs to be fixed.

But go with it. I like this idea so much, that I may use it one day.
Board_Rider
12-26-04, 11:00 PM As a player...
You know as a player I gotta go with Shards way of thinking. Sure it might be cool at first..but what happens if one character gets something the other wants or eventually one is way more powerful than the others unintentionally? Furthermore adding templates may sound like a good thing but usually ruin character concepts which, I feel, are different and special for different players. I certainly wouldn't want the DM meddling....give me an artifact or something.

As a DM...
This idea is a nightmare. You free give a LA template with, I assume, no penalties other than the ones that come with the template. Next thing you know you have a character that runs through your encounters. The wholly evil PC's know that their god rewards them for the more evil things they do so all of a sudden a peacful town is suddenly bothered by such things as Elemental Swarms, Earthquakes and Meteor Swarms. While this could be fun for a short time the Players will get so drunk with power that your campaign will either end up with the PC's in retirement or the DM trying to find ways to kill off the PC's.
BloodGod
12-27-04, 10:07 AM What else are you doing to them besides the vampire one?

For me, it would depend on what you did to my character, exactly. If you turned mine into a vampire, I'd probably say "Screw this," and hand over my sheet for you to tear up or use as a NPC. I'd be done with that group. But, that's mainly because I hate vampires...

On the other hand, if it was something I liked, I'd cheer you on about it and say that it was a splendid idea.

-BG
GilaMonster
12-27-04, 12:27 PM Basically, how do you, as players, feel about DMs "meddling" with your PC in this way, without your consent or input?

Personally, I'd be quite upset. I usually have a very good image of my character and dislike 'fiddling'
eg. My current char is a cleric going divine disciple. My DM's mentioned that transcendence (level 5 divine disciple feature) is going to give me wings (but not the ability to fly). This is a character who dislikes fame, in a world where non-humans are discriminated against.

Could you give them a questionaire to fill in, with a whole lot of questions as to how they would feel if xyz happened and put the vamp question in there?
Thoronmir
12-27-04, 01:29 PM I had a DM do something like this to us in one campaign. He was running a knock-off of Curse of the Azure Bonds, except instead of one character with a bunch of tattoos, we had one tattoo per PC. In addition to serving as clues of the entities and organizations behind the “scheme,” each tattoo bestowed certain powers on the PC. The DM did not consult with us beforehand as to what powers we each received. However, we’d been together for several years and we all had put a lot of effort into our character concepts. So, the DM had a good basis for anticipating what we might prefer. For the most part, he guessed right (though I’d have preferred to change form into a Wolf rather than a Bear, but that’s only because I was playing a Half-Moon Elf).

I would tread very carefully while tinkering with a PC’s fundamental nature. Gaining a very limited version of Wild Shape is one thing. Transforming into a Vampire is another. Your players would have to really trust you. Also, you’d better feel confident that you know the players and their PCs well enough to make such choices for them. However, in my experience with players in all-evil games, anything that makes them more powerful will be welcomed.
danielinthewolvesden
12-27-04, 02:41 PM You do know that by making a PC a True Vampire, you give him something like 8 free levels, and also make him impractical to play? Or at least that's what Libris Mortis 9and my opinion) sez.
eudas
12-27-04, 03:17 PM I'll just echo what others have said already: tread carefully when making these types of changes.

Suggest them first. I'll give an example.

My character, Telamon, participated in a Circus Maximus contest of drinking while in the Tower of Babel (a city that is somewhat akin to Sigil in Planescape, a hub of the multiverse). The drinks got stouter and stouter, until, at last, the final round consisted of drinking efreeti's blood straight from a hollowed-out dragon's tooth.

As a side effect, our Psion developed a tail (like Nightcrawler). Telamon developed pointed teeth, gained the efreeti's sex drive, and his skin turns red and heats up under certain circumstances.

Now, the Psion could use his mental capabilities to suppress the mutation, so he was able to get rid of the tail. Telamon has thus far avoided any further affects, and it's kind of become background at the moment.

However, with Telamon i have a couple of options:
1) ignore it and let it remain just a minor detail
2) roll with it and take the Sculpt Self feat and begin changing him (sculpt self is from a dragon magazine) into a sort of a fire based being
3) really go with it and take a level of Tainted (also from a dragon magazine), and begin filling in story to explain why Telamon turns into a blackguard.

if you give your players the choice of how far they want to take it, then it turns out a lot better. those who don't want it don't do anything with it, and those who like it can run with it. everybody's happy.

eudas
Phrennzy
12-27-04, 04:01 PM There once was an elven wizard named Mordian.

One day, he developed violet eyes. Then his hair turned white. His skin even turned black and everyone thought he was a drow, which was the truth. His adoptive parents had conspired with local mages to magically hide the drow heritage.

Then one day another mage saw the enchantment and blew it off of Mordian.

Mordian adventured just fine.

Then his skin began to fade to a greyish tone. His hair picked up flecks of silver, and he became his true self, a Half-Drow. Born a drow and contaminated by elven magic whic eventually screwed his genetics and made him a half breed.

This was all done by Me, the DM (Long before Drizzt, thank God) to my best friends character. He loved it. Of course, I've known him for 20 years, so I was pretty sure I could change his PC without much screaming.

In more recent stuff, when his paladin died, I brought him back supercharged by celestial forces, and he loved it. I have asked for and recieved good idea input from him.

Bottom line is, you know your friends best. What would they think?

Try this:

Think of your best NPC. The one that you can so vivdly picture in your mind. You have his back story concocted and you have a plan for his future.

How would you feel if your players came to you and said that Your NPC was now a vampire?

That's what it can be like for a player.

Imagine playing Gimli, and - becuase you have been hanging out with hobbits and elves and humans so much - your beard falls out. Sure, you get a +1 to hit with a bow and you don't have to wear shoes anymore - but it drastically alters your character.

As a personal opinion - a Vampire would suck (pardon the pun). No sunlight? Lame. Undead in general is dirty.

You want to make a cool change, edge them into blackguard or necromancer or fiendish template or such. Not the living dead.
amethal
12-28-04, 12:41 PM You could always ask the players.

It won't spoil the surprise too much if you explain their connection with the god could be about to give them dark powers, and how would they feel about that, as it will have drawbacks as well as benefits.

Also, give them a way to change their minds later e.g. they could adventure for a magic item which will delay or maybe even reverse the effects, or possibly speed the effect up.

You will also need to consider the effect if some players opt for the changes and others don't. Both groups will need to be kept at roughly the same power level.
Death's Right Hand
12-29-04, 05:58 AM I am actually going through this with one of my PCs right now. We were required to make good PCs as we were starting out from a schoold for good adventurers. The other PCs got together to figure out what everyone wanted to play so we could have a working party. I am playing a LG cleric of Heronius who will take levels as paladin and then take a paladin prestigue class. However, at level five we got into a room were we had to make a will save. I failed with a 27 and was knocked out. I woke up and was negetive energy drained back to 1st level along with the rest of the party. We were all then bitten by a lycanthrope so that we would all become lycanthropes. This of course totally ruined my character concept because if I fail one save then my character concept which is based around being LG is shot. Now I would not have minded if it was not going to negetively affect my character or such but the fact that we were facing a caster capable of the 9th lvl spell energy drain (we had to make fort saves and as a result lost all 4 levels permanently) and failed will saves of 27 at 5th lvl I fell that this was going to happen no matter what we did. So we also had no control on the situation. This upset all of the PCs and the DM state, "Well I knew you guys would be mad but I did not know you were going to be this mad." Tonight was the session after and it has made 2 sessions in a row where everyone has left very angry with the campaign. All this to say that implamenting changes can be cool and fun but make sure that it is something that will not ruin the PC's character concept and be very careful on how you implament it. Otherwise you may end up with a bitter group.
ChimericalWolf
12-29-04, 06:05 AM Maybe you could give them the first step along the path you think they would fit on. Have the Vamp-turning char first develop occasional hungers for blood, one day he steps into the sunlight and it just friggin burns. Than, when he tried to figure out what's going on through research or spells, reveal what's happening, than tell him that he can choose to follow that path, or choose not to. It might start simple, "Drink blood and the blood curse will take you."

There's no problem with giving your players options, but don't wrench their characters out from under them. Or you'll find yourself sitting alone making characters with no one to play them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ephealy 12-26-04, 02:21 PM	The PCs in one of the campaigns I'm DMing are all Evil. They serve an evil god as his muscle in the material world, and as they grow in power, I want to make them more iconic - more embued with their god's character and powers. Some would say that the players choose their PC's class and PrC(s) - and that is where their powers come from. That's fine, but I want to flavor them with a touch of their malevolent benefactor. One way I've done this is through minor artifacts and such, but I plan on changing the very nature of the PCs as they get higher in level. For instance, one of them will slowly change into a vampire over time, with all the related bonuses and penalties accruing to him just as if he'd taking levels as a vampire. This is not something I will allow them to choose, and I won't tell them it is happeneing. They will simply have to figure it out as time goes by. I have tried determining what the players see their characters desires and direction to be for the future ... using that as a guide to determining just how their god's character will manifest within the PCs. However, no-one is perfect, and without directly asking them, I can't be sure. And asking them would spoil the surprise... How would you feel, as a player, if your DM did this to you? Would you feel cheated or that he was messing with your PC too much? Would you not care, as long as it made the game more fun? As long as it advanced the story et al? Basically, how do you, as players, feel about DMs "meddling" with your PC in this way, without your consent or input?
Arkonth 12-26-04, 02:29 PM	Well actually our DM has something like this in our own campaign. The moon (Mar) acts as a source of magic and slowly soaks into a character eventually altering them. Generally this change is beneficial (our cleric manifests a warhammer out of his arm) but sometimes not (our wizard turns into a chaotic evil weretiger whenver he fights at night). So far no one has objected to these changes and our DM tailored them based on how we play our characters so it actually gave us a roleplaying boost. If your changes are something like that and match the characters then I doubt anyone will mind.
Shard of Suzail 12-26-04, 04:39 PM	I`m in two minds about this. My gm gets excited about a lot of stuff. Now, i play a neutral cleric of death and one day he said to me "wouldnt it be cool if you could just sense undead as a natural ability?". I had a think about this and discouraged him from giving it to me. There was no reason, really, for me to get that ability free other than he liked the idea at the time. I, instead, encouraged him to show his appreciation for my character in item creation. For instance, one of the villains we fought used a scythe as a weapon, which happens to be the weapon favoured by my deity. I had to pick up a fighter level to be able to use it, but it was still a nice thing to see a weapon in the campaign that was put in there with my character in mind. At the end of the day, i could simply put it down if i had had enough of it and, in the end, it was outgrown by the party and replaced with a bastard sword. Items are temporary, but cool. Locations are likewise cool, so my gm may reward me by having the party stumble upon a really good spot where i could build a stronghold or a temple. Again, changing the world to suit the characters a bit better, though with them still choosing if they wished to follow the change or leave it. Messing with the character, though, i take affront to, unless its something i have signed up for. In our Rokugan game (legend of the five rings, now eastern adventures d20 rokugan), my samurai signed up with the sinister force known as the living shadow. I got strange shadow powers from my gm and strange allies, but that was fine, since i signed up for it. My current cleric hasnt signed up for anything, as such. I`m not a member of a strange society, havent tried to pick up a wierd prestige class (like alienist) and generally live a normal player life. If, one day, i started being able to sense undead, then i`d be a bit miffed. If, however, i drank vampire blood or was struck by the after effects of a wierd ritual, then i`d probably be a lot more inclined to go "fair enough, i signed on for that". Mostly though, if i want wierd powers and strange character alterations, i`d expect to get that from a prestige class choice, like dragon disciple or geomancer. I`d work for my wings and strange eyes, rather than having them inflicted upon me.
Razoreface 12-26-04, 05:14 PM	For instance, one of them will slowly change into a vampire over time If a DM did that to me, I'd one day feel an impulse to watch the sun rise. Better die when he can be replaced than in the middle of a fight because of crappier than normal hitpoints for the character. A DM of mine had a campaign where everyone was destined to do certain things, and we had to keep switching off between two characters because the campaign was all over the place. The first character of mine kept getting strange powers that were really not useful, so I spent most of the time using the second character, who for a long time had no powers at all, because the DM couldn't think of any, and I wouldn't offer any suggestions. Everyone else had powers that were more often than not, really irritating. Powerful, creative, and most of the time fitting (for the primary characters... the secondary or replacement ones either didn't have one or had ones that were really strange or just randomly powerful), but really irritating.
Zetakya 12-26-04, 05:45 PM	Have him manifest the "first signs of the change" and once he figures out what it is, he can either choose to "throw himself into his doom" or "heroically resist the twisting horror", as decided by the character.
Gurv 12-26-04, 05:53 PM	It mostly depends on your players. If you are giving them something that really fits their characters, and are useful or interesting, then I think they will enjoy it. But if the powers come with more drawbacks than they are worth, then they will assume that you are just trying to make their lives miserable. Being a vampire is awesome, but the drawbacks are almost more than a PC can handle. But if the powers and drawbacks come slowly, then maybe that will give time to adjust. I would see what happens when you give them lesser powers. If they seem annoyed, don't do it anymore. But if they look into the powers, investigate them, consider continuing with your plan.
Asciiman 12-26-04, 08:40 PM	Go with what Gurv said. Slowly start the changes, if the PC's get irratated then don't do it anymore, leave them as they are and give them the ability to change it back, and don't explain what happened cause it may clue in the rest of the Players as to what you are doing. After all is said and done, if they like the change then keep it, if not, construct an adventure to allow them to change back to the way they were before. In the end, the most important thing to remember, is cater to your characters in a challenging and fun way, cause if even one person isn't having fun, then it needs to be fixed. But go with it. I like this idea so much, that I may use it one day.
Board_Rider 12-26-04, 11:00 PM	As a player... You know as a player I gotta go with Shards way of thinking. Sure it might be cool at first..but what happens if one character gets something the other wants or eventually one is way more powerful than the others unintentionally? Furthermore adding templates may sound like a good thing but usually ruin character concepts which, I feel, are different and special for different players. I certainly wouldn't want the DM meddling....give me an artifact or something. As a DM... This idea is a nightmare. You free give a LA template with, I assume, no penalties other than the ones that come with the template. Next thing you know you have a character that runs through your encounters. The wholly evil PC's know that their god rewards them for the more evil things they do so all of a sudden a peacful town is suddenly bothered by such things as Elemental Swarms, Earthquakes and Meteor Swarms. While this could be fun for a short time the Players will get so drunk with power that your campaign will either end up with the PC's in retirement or the DM trying to find ways to kill off the PC's.
BloodGod 12-27-04, 10:07 AM	What else are you doing to them besides the vampire one? For me, it would depend on what you did to my character, exactly. If you turned mine into a vampire, I'd probably say "Screw this," and hand over my sheet for you to tear up or use as a NPC. I'd be done with that group. But, that's mainly because I hate vampires... On the other hand, if it was something I liked, I'd cheer you on about it and say that it was a splendid idea. -BG
GilaMonster 12-27-04, 12:27 PM	Basically, how do you, as players, feel about DMs "meddling" with your PC in this way, without your consent or input? Personally, I'd be quite upset. I usually have a very good image of my character and dislike 'fiddling' eg. My current char is a cleric going divine disciple. My DM's mentioned that transcendence (level 5 divine disciple feature) is going to give me wings (but not the ability to fly). This is a character who dislikes fame, in a world where non-humans are discriminated against. Could you give them a questionaire to fill in, with a whole lot of questions as to how they would feel if xyz happened and put the vamp question in there?
Thoronmir 12-27-04, 01:29 PM	I had a DM do something like this to us in one campaign. He was running a knock-off of Curse of the Azure Bonds, except instead of one character with a bunch of tattoos, we had one tattoo per PC. In addition to serving as clues of the entities and organizations behind the “scheme,” each tattoo bestowed certain powers on the PC. The DM did not consult with us beforehand as to what powers we each received. However, we’d been together for several years and we all had put a lot of effort into our character concepts. So, the DM had a good basis for anticipating what we might prefer. For the most part, he guessed right (though I’d have preferred to change form into a Wolf rather than a Bear, but that’s only because I was playing a Half-Moon Elf). I would tread very carefully while tinkering with a PC’s fundamental nature. Gaining a very limited version of Wild Shape is one thing. Transforming into a Vampire is another. Your players would have to really trust you. Also, you’d better feel confident that you know the players and their PCs well enough to make such choices for them. However, in my experience with players in all-evil games, anything that makes them more powerful will be welcomed.
danielinthewolvesden 12-27-04, 02:41 PM	You do know that by making a PC a True Vampire, you give him something like 8 free levels, and also make him impractical to play? Or at least that's what Libris Mortis 9and my opinion) sez.
eudas 12-27-04, 03:17 PM	I'll just echo what others have said already: tread carefully when making these types of changes. Suggest them first. I'll give an example. My character, Telamon, participated in a Circus Maximus contest of drinking while in the Tower of Babel (a city that is somewhat akin to Sigil in Planescape, a hub of the multiverse). The drinks got stouter and stouter, until, at last, the final round consisted of drinking efreeti's blood straight from a hollowed-out dragon's tooth. As a side effect, our Psion developed a tail (like Nightcrawler). Telamon developed pointed teeth, gained the efreeti's sex drive, and his skin turns red and heats up under certain circumstances. Now, the Psion could use his mental capabilities to suppress the mutation, so he was able to get rid of the tail. Telamon has thus far avoided any further affects, and it's kind of become background at the moment. However, with Telamon i have a couple of options: 1) ignore it and let it remain just a minor detail 2) roll with it and take the Sculpt Self feat and begin changing him (sculpt self is from a dragon magazine) into a sort of a fire based being 3) really go with it and take a level of Tainted (also from a dragon magazine), and begin filling in story to explain why Telamon turns into a blackguard. if you give your players the choice of how far they want to take it, then it turns out a lot better. those who don't want it don't do anything with it, and those who like it can run with it. everybody's happy. eudas
Phrennzy 12-27-04, 04:01 PM	There once was an elven wizard named Mordian. One day, he developed violet eyes. Then his hair turned white. His skin even turned black and everyone thought he was a drow, which was the truth. His adoptive parents had conspired with local mages to magically hide the drow heritage. Then one day another mage saw the enchantment and blew it off of Mordian. Mordian adventured just fine. Then his skin began to fade to a greyish tone. His hair picked up flecks of silver, and he became his true self, a Half-Drow. Born a drow and contaminated by elven magic whic eventually screwed his genetics and made him a half breed. This was all done by Me, the DM (Long before Drizzt, thank God) to my best friends character. He loved it. Of course, I've known him for 20 years, so I was pretty sure I could change his PC without much screaming. In more recent stuff, when his paladin died, I brought him back supercharged by celestial forces, and he loved it. I have asked for and recieved good idea input from him. Bottom line is, you know your friends best. What would they think? Try this: Think of your best NPC. The one that you can so vivdly picture in your mind. You have his back story concocted and you have a plan for his future. How would you feel if your players came to you and said that Your NPC was now a vampire? That's what it can be like for a player. Imagine playing Gimli, and - becuase you have been hanging out with hobbits and elves and humans so much - your beard falls out. Sure, you get a +1 to hit with a bow and you don't have to wear shoes anymore - but it drastically alters your character. As a personal opinion - a Vampire would suck (pardon the pun). No sunlight? Lame. Undead in general is dirty. You want to make a cool change, edge them into blackguard or necromancer or fiendish template or such. Not the living dead.
amethal 12-28-04, 12:41 PM	You could always ask the players. It won't spoil the surprise too much if you explain their connection with the god could be about to give them dark powers, and how would they feel about that, as it will have drawbacks as well as benefits. Also, give them a way to change their minds later e.g. they could adventure for a magic item which will delay or maybe even reverse the effects, or possibly speed the effect up. You will also need to consider the effect if some players opt for the changes and others don't. Both groups will need to be kept at roughly the same power level.
Death's Right Hand 12-29-04, 05:58 AM	I am actually going through this with one of my PCs right now. We were required to make good PCs as we were starting out from a schoold for good adventurers. The other PCs got together to figure out what everyone wanted to play so we could have a working party. I am playing a LG cleric of Heronius who will take levels as paladin and then take a paladin prestigue class. However, at level five we got into a room were we had to make a will save. I failed with a 27 and was knocked out. I woke up and was negetive energy drained back to 1st level along with the rest of the party. We were all then bitten by a lycanthrope so that we would all become lycanthropes. This of course totally ruined my character concept because if I fail one save then my character concept which is based around being LG is shot. Now I would not have minded if it was not going to negetively affect my character or such but the fact that we were facing a caster capable of the 9th lvl spell energy drain (we had to make fort saves and as a result lost all 4 levels permanently) and failed will saves of 27 at 5th lvl I fell that this was going to happen no matter what we did. So we also had no control on the situation. This upset all of the PCs and the DM state, "Well I knew you guys would be mad but I did not know you were going to be this mad." Tonight was the session after and it has made 2 sessions in a row where everyone has left very angry with the campaign. All this to say that implamenting changes can be cool and fun but make sure that it is something that will not ruin the PC's character concept and be very careful on how you implament it. Otherwise you may end up with a bitter group.
ChimericalWolf 12-29-04, 06:05 AM	Maybe you could give them the first step along the path you think they would fit on. Have the Vamp-turning char first develop occasional hungers for blood, one day he steps into the sunlight and it just friggin burns. Than, when he tried to figure out what's going on through research or spells, reveal what's happening, than tell him that he can choose to follow that path, or choose not to. It might start simple, "Drink blood and the blood curse will take you." There's no problem with giving your players options, but don't wrench their characters out from under them. Or you'll find yourself sitting alone making characters with no one to play them.