Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Phantom Reaper 07-17-04, 11:51 PM	Alright in a new campaign my freind is making, I'm thinking about doing a Human Paladin and my question is the DM says that if a fellow group member(a rouge) steals something and I catch him doing it what would the paladin do? My freind says he would just not except the stolen goods from the rouge but I think he would tell the rouge to put it back or force him to.
Arcuna 07-18-04, 12:04 AM	You are both correct. While it doesn't say anything about witnessing a crime in the PHB or SRD, they do say that the Paladin cannot, in any way, help the rogue. Taken from the SRD (can also be found in the 3.5 PHB page 44 A paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents. Thus, while the paladin is not required to do anything about the rogue's theft, he cannot accept any of it, and can, under no circumstances, help in the theft. In most cases, however, the paladin would stop the rogue, or at least infrom the authorities. :w:
Thegreatmonkey 07-18-04, 12:13 AM	I'd say the paladin is required to make the rogue return the goods or turn the rogue in for justice. The point is the rogue needs to do his job well enough that the paladin never finds out it's him behind the robbery.
FreeTheSlaves 07-18-04, 08:32 AM	In the longer term, a typical paladin won't hang out with a criminal character. All parties will need to accept that someone is going to get the boot sooner or later unless someone modifies their character concept. Basically players and DM should openly discuss the flavour they want the campaign to have.
der_gogo 07-18-04, 08:37 AM	There is also different stuff to consider: - What did the Thief steal? Jewellery? or just bread? - Why? Greed? Or did he want to steal from the rich in order to give to the poor? - How did he steal it? Pickpocket? Armed Robbery?
Henchcritter 07-18-04, 09:24 AM	Originally posted by der_gogo There is also different stuff to consider: - What did the Thief steal? Jewellery? or just bread? - Why? Greed? Or did he want to steal from the rich in order to give to the poor? - How did he steal it? Pickpocket? Armed Robbery? Also, who is the target of the theft. "Sorry Mr. Blackguard, here is you +3 unholy longsword my partymember stole back", is not the paladin's way.
Thorak 07-18-04, 01:26 PM	As I do so often on these kinds of threads, I humbly submit that many of the knights from David Eddings' two series, the Elenium and the Tamuli, are great Paladin types. They're knights with minor casting powers granted by Gods. They have codes of honour. Yadda yadda yadda. And they can be exceptionally brutal when someone puts themselves in their path and blocks their holy quest. And, most importantly for this question, they associate with thieves quite a bit. Because, with the thieves they associate with, these guys are relatively good-hearted. While they're doing bad things, in the Knight's view, if they remove them, someone else will fill the void. And it's better to have a friendly, generally kindly thieves guild leader, than the new guy who might be a bloodthirsty SOB. Besides, the 'nice' thieves generally only stole from those who could spare some, and killed those who everyone admitted probably deserved to die. Like others have said; it's less in the actions the thief is doing, and more in the why he's doing it. Sure, the paladin might disagree morally with the thief's actions, and not participate or want to know about it, but he can also intellectually recognize that thievery is a fact of life and is going to happen regardless, and his friend is at least a generally decent guy, as opposed to a sadistic beast who'd kill and rape anyone who got in his way. And as long as his friend is in the business, there's less room for those nasty types to move in. Better the distasteful necessity you know than the possibly horrible evils you don't.