Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SmiloDan 05-07-04, 11:03 AM	OK, last night we were fighting a beholder for the first time. It was in the middle of a 20 foot square room with a 10 wide corridor leading into it. The party consisted of a Fighter 8/Exotic Weapon Master 1/Mystic 1, a Wizard 5/Fighter 1/War Wizard 3, a Fighter 2/Rogue 4/Wizard 3/Spellsword 1, my Druid 9, and my wardog animal companion. Anyways, we roll for initiative, and my dog and the fighter go first. They both charged into melee. The dog got TKed into a wall and took 2d6 points of damage. No one messes with my dog! So I used my Karma Prayer Bead and a LESSER Rod of Empowerment to FLAME STRIKE the eye tyrant. This caused 55 points of damage, but beholder made its Fortitude save against massive damage. I did the same thing the following round and killed the beholder. This morning I was getting ready to brag on the boards about taking out a beholder in 2 rounds when I realized that I can't empower a 4th level spell with a lesser rod of metamagic. What should I do? I already emailed the DM and players about this mistake. Should I just forego the XP for the encounter? Or do I have to do something else to make amends?
Orcy The Green Wonder 05-07-04, 11:06 AM	Personally when Orcy DMs he makes sure he checks whats going on. He has learned that often times players don't always make sure they can do what they do. Orcy would say that the DM didn't notice the mistake, nor did you intentionally cheat. The thing Orcy is wondering about, is how did you hit a beholder with magic... was it not looking at you?
Derren S. 05-07-04, 11:07 AM	Let the DM decide what to do. Everyone makes mistakes and you admitted that you did one. There is nothing more you can do.
Krelios 05-07-04, 11:15 AM	This wasn't intentional and your DM didn't catch it. Your character can count his blessings...literally (since you're a cleric).
SmiloDan 05-07-04, 11:20 AM	Actually, I play a druid, but I'm actually a relatively devout druid--I even have a patron deity! The Beholder was focusing its eye rays on us, so I guess it was suppressing its antimagic field. We were right in front of it (well, I was hiding behind a corner, but could still peak around it), so it could either have antimagicked us OR used its rays, not both. The antimagic field nerfs its rays too. OK, I just want to be fair.
Big Dawg 05-07-04, 11:28 AM	Dan As a DM i would not make you give back the XP. You were honest. It's really not a big deal, don't worry.
Xavori 05-07-04, 12:05 PM	Originally posted by Big Dawg Dan As a DM i would not make you give back the XP. You were honest. It's really not a big deal, don't worry. Yeah, I agree with him, I would do the same! :) Besides, you didnt cheat, you just made a mistake: Everybody makes mistakes! ;)
SmiloDan 05-07-04, 12:06 PM	Hey, I got email from my DM and he says we're OK. We all missed the mistake I made. We just can't make it in the future. So we're square.
FreeTheSlaves 05-07-04, 12:34 PM	That's fair.;)
Big Dawg 05-07-04, 01:01 PM	Remember it's only a monster and the DM can always make a new one for the party to fight if he wants. Be glad It wasn't the DM who made the mistake on you resulting your PC's death!
ante_up 05-07-04, 01:50 PM	You can't accidentally cheat, as cheating requires deception or trickery. Therefore you didn't cheat, but made a mistake.
Utumno 05-07-04, 05:18 PM	The only person that should know your spells better than you is the DM. The DM screwed up plain and simple. He also must have played the beholder very foolishly to have it die in 2 rounds for any reason. You are in the clear. It is the DMs fault and not yours. You deserve full xp for a dead beholder.
CrimsonRyoko 05-07-04, 05:41 PM	Happens atleast once a week in our gaming groups, after a few times between my different chars i started double and triple checking what i do in game since i know the rules of magic about 40% better then either of my DM's. Not their fault, they have much more on their hand,s and i am a bit obsessive with my spell choices.... The one thing that bugs me is when a DM misses a rule, and then houserules it on the spot. In one of my Games Magic is really restricted and the DM makes you spend a day per spell level to learn a spell, and Read/Detect magic only works on a Divine/Arcane level, so you can only fine the kind you use......i somewhat hate that dm's game for that, but im one of only two founding members with their original character because of some of the risks i dont take, lol.
Nom 05-08-04, 03:15 AM	Remember that D&D (usually) isn't a competition. You're not comparing your "score" against anyone else, merely having fun telling a story together. Did you have fun? Sounds like a "yes". Might you have had more fun if you hadn't made the mistake and gotten away with it? Possibly, but who knows? Following rules = good. Allowing minor variations because they make the whole story better = also good.
hellfirewyrm 05-08-04, 08:50 AM	Whenever I make a mistake, it's my fault. As a DM, I just let it pass. They were fighting those Palrenthees a few days ago and i forgot to add SR. It was my fault and I noticed about 10 rounds later. I just forgot about it and continued on. It's kinda hard to say you ahve to rewind and redo it all.
Eldren 05-08-04, 03:19 PM	In general, the fact that you've been really honest about it should work in your favor. Especially at higher levels, when you're talking about 3rd Edition, it gets tough to keep track of things in terms of bonuses, etc. I know that frequently my Paladin likes to activate her Smite Evil, along with using "Power Attack", "Divine Might", and even casting Divine Sacrifice before entering battle; this is a lot of extra bonuses to keep track of, on top of the fact that she does this most frequently when fighting evil Outsiders, and is fighting with a Holy Evil Outsider Bane weapon. So I've actually had to write out a "cheat sheet" to let me know what my bonuses are so I don't have to hold up the game while I tell the Dungeon Master, "One moment while I figure out what my attack and damage bonuses are", and then double-check to make sure I didn't mis-add or forget something, and then roll the dice. :rolleyes: Make yourself a quick little reminder sheet that lets you know about some items you don't use commonly, or items you aren't sure about and don't want to take the time to look up in a rulebook. It'll help you, and if you're in the earlier stages of the game, it makes for a good habit so you're used to doing it at higher levels, when you're really going to need to keep track of tons of stacking bonuses and abilities. I would figure your Dungeon Master is likely to call it an honest mistake, and since you were honest about it and didn't try to pull the wool over his eyes, he'd probably let it go. Most Dungeon Masters wish they had players as honest as you! I'm fortunate to have players who are very honest with me, but also know the rules really well, and know how to make pretty powerful characters no matter what level they are. If I had a player who had done some bad math on their PC, or assumed an ability it turned out later they didn't have, I'd let 'em keep the XP from that encounter, and just encourage them to pay closer attention next time. If it got to be a recurring "mistake", I'd question their honesty at that point, and might ask to take a quick look at their character sheet so I could make a quick note of what they could and couldn't accomplish, but in general, those kinds of players, the types who are bound and determined to cheat, don't last long in my games anyway. I know the rules inside out (except for a couple of niggly little things relating to grappling, as it doesn't happen a lot in my campaign), so I can usually pick up on something that ought not to be happening pretty quickly. At that point, I warn the player to stop it, and if it continues past that point, they just receive a private e-mail during the week, between sessions, letting them know that their presence is no longer required at my sessions. I'm always polite, but everyone is there to have fun, and no one has fun when someone starts cheating. I stop having fun because I have to play nursemaid to a player to keep them from wrecking the game, and the others aren't having fun because they have to deal with a player who's attempting to cheat his or her way to victory, which taints it for the others who work hard, and take their lumps fairly when the dice say they should be lumped.
PhaedrusXY 05-08-04, 05:59 PM	It's even worse to keep up with this kind of stuff in an Epic game. I was playing a heavily multiclassed ninja in an epic game, and he had all kinds of crazy feats, spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. I often would forget something, or screw something up. It was to my disadvantage about as much as to my advantage, however. And I always pointed it out to the DM when I realized what I'd done. As long as you're not doing stuff like this on purpose, it shouldn't be a problem.
Sproik 05-08-04, 06:19 PM	As a self-confessed cheat, you must now destroy all records of the character you cheated with - it may never be used again. Further, you must spend one hour of each day in extreme physical or mental discomfort in order to repay your karmic debt to society. Finally, on the one year anniversary of the cheating taking place, you must build a great wicker man large enough to contain yourself in the chest cavity, and it must be set alight at midnight with you inside it. The cleansing power of flame will consume the evil from you, and allow your soul to pass on without the foul taint of your shameful cheating.
Shifting Master 05-09-04, 07:21 AM	:heehee But anyway, I think he's joking. The most I'd do, as a DM, is make you have a atonement spell from your deity. But seriously, I make mistakes all of the time (as a player and a DM), and it's okay.
Super Guy 05-09-04, 12:52 PM	Heh, want to know a bad mistake? This was 3rd edition, when I was new to the game and a friend, who wasn't new, never looked at the LONG spell descriptions. It's the battle with the top minions of Zenlack, the lich sorceror who seems to always turn up in almost every campaign, and it is supposed to be a 50% chance that we'll win, 50% chance that we'll lose. I cast 3.0 Harm on this Barbarian Werebear. I didn't know that it had a fort save- in fact I was sure it didn't have any save because I don't think it did in second edition, and the DM probably thought the same. Bam! Bronn, my mighty cleric, practically destroyed him, and then our ranger put an arrow in him to kill him. The next cheezy death was when the other cleric cast like, Sun Rays or something, on Vrak the Vampire Fighter. He didn't know that the rays came individually, once a round or something, so when he said he was sure that the rays all came at the same time and basically obliterated Vrak's Hp, the DM thought the player knew what he was talking about. Since then, the DM has looked through all of the spells and makes sure that we know the spell description and saves before casting them.
Elrana 05-10-04, 10:02 AM	Mistakes happen, that's the way of D&D. As often as they are to your benefit they are to your detriment. My whole group forgets to add bless/prayer effects to their attack/damage rolls on a daily basis! Equally the DM occasionally forgets things, and sometimes we get away with things because of it! I always forget to roll a d10 not a d6 for energy damage with my burst weapon every time I confirm a crit! I haven't remembered once! But I forget from time to time that I am down two negative levels (equipment I am stuck with) and fail to take 2 off of the occasional roll, it all evens out in the end I would say. If you are really bothered then make marks on your spell list that represent what you can and can't do with each spell. Generally we go on a round by round basis. If during the same round someone pipes up with 'bugger! Add one more damage to my attack' it is accepted. If that round has ended then it is too late and the chance to rectify is gone, unless it is really important! An example is when I died, I failed a reflex save by 1 and so suffered enough damage to take me below -10. The group finished the battle, carried my body somewhere and paid to have him true resurrected. At the same time my familiar died despite passing just from half damage. Just after I had been true resurrected, I sat up and shouted 'hang on! I had cast cat's grace! That means I rolled a 25 not a 23! Half damage wasn't enough to kill me!' The game was back tracked to before they carried my dead body away and I was assumed to have been knocked to -1 hp to explain why I didn't take part in the rest of the combat. Then, about five minutes after this, when we had paid to have raise dead cast on my familiar I sat up and shouted 'hang on! Canth's got improved evasion! That means he takes no damage when he passes a reflex save! He wouldn't have died after all!' Needless to say everyone shouted at me lots, we went back to the end of the fight, again, and I was suitable chastised and had dice, bits of paper etc. thrown at me. Still, we all saw the funny side! :blush: That being said I agree with Sproik purely for humour value. Can we all come and watch? :D
PhaedrusXY 05-10-04, 10:48 AM	Originally posted by Super Guy I cast 3.0 Harm on this Barbarian Werebear. I didn't know that it had a fort save- in fact I was sure it didn't have any save because I don't think it did in second edition, and the DM probably thought the same. Bam! Bronn, my mighty cleric, practically destroyed him, and then our ranger put an arrow in him to kill him. That's because it didn't have a Fortitude save in 3.0. As a matter of fact, it doesn't have a Fort save in 3.5 either. It has a Will save. It's never had a Fort save, and it didn't have any save at all in 3.0. It was stupidly overpowered. From the 3.0 SRD: Harm Necromancy Level: Clr 6, Destruction 6, Drd 7 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 action Range: Touch Target: Creature touched Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes Harm damages a subject with negative energy that causes the loss of all but 1d4 hit points. If used on an undead creature (requires a successful touch attack), harm acts like heal.
sjogren 05-10-04, 12:32 PM	Originally posted by Elrana If you are really bothered then make marks on your spell list that represent what you can and can't do with each spell. I really like the Spell Cards (http://www.theothergamecompany.com/projects/spellcards.htm) that TOGC sell. Very convenient!
ShadowRanger 05-11-04, 08:05 PM	your honest, you even told the DM, leave it at that and don't make the mistake again.
a18ffe 05-20-04, 10:48 PM	How about replaying the battle? You can keep the XP if you survive it. Just begin when your dog got TKed...
Stuntman 05-21-04, 12:31 AM	I've been playing for years and I find that I am the most knowledgeable amoungst my play group about the rules. Even the DM asks me about certain rules. Still I make mistakes on occasion. The best thing to do is to just move on and not dwell on it. There are hundreds of pages of rules and you cannot expect to play without making mistakes. The detail you missed was kind of the fine print regarding the item. No worry. Everyone knows about the limitations of the item now.
Elrana 05-21-04, 03:01 AM	You are all far too lenient. I still agree with Sproik! Off with his head! :)