I am confused about Full round actions. [Archive] - Wizards Community

I am confused about Full round actions. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FrostHammer
11-01-06, 03:00 PM If I've got a BAB high enough to give me multiple attacks, what kind of actions can I get? Can I only do standard attacks, or can I substitute some or all of my standard attacks for special combat actions? For example, if I have power attack, cleave, trip and sunder (and a BAB of 20) can I sunder an object the first action, trip as 2nd, trip again as 3rd use power attack on the fourth, and if I kill, I get an extra normal attack?
Salla
11-01-06, 03:18 PM If I've got a BAB high enough to give me multiple attacks, what kind of actions can I get? Can I only do standard attacks, or can I substitute some or all of my standard attacks for special combat actions? For example, if I have power attack, cleave, trip and sunder (and a BAB of 20) can I sunder an object the first action, trip as 2nd, trip again as 3rd use power attack on the fourth, and if I kill, I get an extra normal attack?

Your round consists of the following:
As many free actions as the GM allows
1 Swift or Immediate Action
AND
1 Move Equivalent Action
1 Standard Action, which can be used for a second Move Equivalent if you want
OR
1 Full-Round Action.

You don't have four standard actions, you have four attacks you can perform as a Full Round Action. You can sunder, trip, attack, then attack something else; however, you set Power Attack for the round, not per attack.
FrostHammer
11-01-06, 03:23 PM But as part of the Full round action, the 4 attacks don't have to be normal attacks is what I'm saying? My 4 "attacks" of the FRA can just be 4 trips or 4 sunders if I wanted to?
JasonOrlandoHawk
11-01-06, 03:25 PM Sunder and Trip are special sorts of attacks that can be used in place of any regular attacks.

Power Attack is a modifier to an attack that would not help you on any special attacks.

Cleave is a special option that triggers any time you kill someone.

Thus, it would work something like this:

Let's assume that you have a BAB of +15/+10/+5. (I am ignoring all other possible modifiers to keep this simple. Add those modifiers when appropriate.)

If you make a move action (more than a 5ft step, up to your character's speed), then you have a Standard action, with which you can perform one attack. You can either perform a regular attack, OR you can use your special attack options Sunder and Trip. Either way, you only get one attack.

If you only take a 5ft step, or do not move, you can perform a full round action, which would give you three attacks at the listed bonuses. Again, you can either perform regular attack or use one of your special options. (Thus, with three attacks, you could: 1st attack: Sunder, 2nd Attack: Trip, 3rd Attack: Strike the now prone, unarmored target.) You don't have to use that order, it's just one example.

Cleave triggers anytime you kill something with a melee strike, irregardless of Standard Attack, Full Attack, or even Attack of Opportunity.

Power Attack interacts with all of these rules in a unique way. To use Power Attack, you take a penalty to ALL attacks in that round, and add that penalty to your Damage for each successful attack. The penalties and bonuses last until your next round, so they even affect any attacks of opportunity you make.

Thus, when you choose your penalty, you must apply it to every attack roll, wether or not the attack roll is for an attack that deals damage or not. So, let's say that you take a -5 penalty to your attacks for a round and use my Sunder, Trip, Attack the Prone Guy pattern example.

Your Sunder (1st attack) and Attack the Prone Guy (3rd Attack) benefit since both attacks deal damage on a successful roll. However, your Trip Attack doesn't deal damage, so it suffers. You have to accept the penalty at the start of the round, so your attack roll to start the trip MUST take that penalty, but since it's an opposed Strength (or Dex for the other guy, occasionally) roll to see if you trip, your bonus to damage is non-existent.

Thus, I advise a little caution: Don't trip on a round where you use Power Attack unless you're pretty sure you can make the attack roll, even with a penalty.

(On a side note, I might consider a house rule that says you could add your Power Attack bonus to the opposed roll to see if you trip the person, but I would also say that you take an equal penalty if you fail to trip the person and they get the free trip against you. HOWEVER, that's a house rule I would consider, and certainly not RAW.)

Does that clarify anything? Or is it Clear as Mud?
Tempest Stormwind
11-01-06, 04:26 PM Here's a model you might like.

An attack is an Attack action.
Other things that specify attack actions, like, say, tripping, are also Attack actions.
Things such as flurry or two-weapon fighting add Attack actions. Similarly, you gain one additional Attack action per 5 points of base attack.

You can spend a Standard Action (you get one per turn) to make one Attack action, or you can spend both a Move Action and a Standard Action at once (that is, a full-round action) to make one Attack action per attack you get.

If you're a Fighter 20, you have four Attack actions. If you have all three Two-weapon Fighting feats, you have seven Attack actions total.
If you spend a standard action, you can make one attack, which can be anything described as an Attack action.
If you spend a full-round action, you can make seven Attack actions, since that's how many you'd get.
In both cases, you can freely substitute attack actions -- you could make normal attacks, trips, disarms, and so on.

Do note that sometimes a particular action can prevent you from continuing on a full attack -- you could make two Attacks and then decide to drop a weapon (Free action) and grapple someone. This introduces its own rules (see Grapple).

Some actions specify they take Standard actions to do, such as feinting. These are NOT attack actions, they are standard actions -- meaning you can spend a standard action to do them. If you spend a full-round action on a full attack -- that is, using all your attack actions -- you cannot also use a standard action, nor can you use standard actions as those attacks.

Does that help?
FrostHammer
11-01-06, 06:45 PM Let's assume that you have a BAB of +15/+10/+5. (I am ignoring all other possible modifiers to keep this simple. Add those modifiers when appropriate.)

If you only take a 5ft step, or do not move, you can perform a full round action, which would give you three attacks at the listed bonuses. Again, you can either perform regular attack or use one of your special options. (Thus, with three attacks, you could: 1st attack: Sunder, 2nd Attack: Trip, 3rd Attack: Strike the now prone, unarmored target.)

Umm...you can sunder armor? If so, that completely and utterly kicks ass.
Aegeu
11-01-06, 07:35 PM I believe he meant unarmed. You cannot sunder armor.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FrostHammer 11-01-06, 03:00 PM	If I've got a BAB high enough to give me multiple attacks, what kind of actions can I get? Can I only do standard attacks, or can I substitute some or all of my standard attacks for special combat actions? For example, if I have power attack, cleave, trip and sunder (and a BAB of 20) can I sunder an object the first action, trip as 2nd, trip again as 3rd use power attack on the fourth, and if I kill, I get an extra normal attack?
Salla 11-01-06, 03:18 PM	If I've got a BAB high enough to give me multiple attacks, what kind of actions can I get? Can I only do standard attacks, or can I substitute some or all of my standard attacks for special combat actions? For example, if I have power attack, cleave, trip and sunder (and a BAB of 20) can I sunder an object the first action, trip as 2nd, trip again as 3rd use power attack on the fourth, and if I kill, I get an extra normal attack? Your round consists of the following: As many free actions as the GM allows 1 Swift or Immediate Action AND 1 Move Equivalent Action 1 Standard Action, which can be used for a second Move Equivalent if you want OR 1 Full-Round Action. You don't have four standard actions, you have four attacks you can perform as a Full Round Action. You can sunder, trip, attack, then attack something else; however, you set Power Attack for the round, not per attack.
FrostHammer 11-01-06, 03:23 PM	But as part of the Full round action, the 4 attacks don't have to be normal attacks is what I'm saying? My 4 "attacks" of the FRA can just be 4 trips or 4 sunders if I wanted to?
JasonOrlandoHawk 11-01-06, 03:25 PM	Sunder and Trip are special sorts of attacks that can be used in place of any regular attacks. Power Attack is a modifier to an attack that would not help you on any special attacks. Cleave is a special option that triggers any time you kill someone. Thus, it would work something like this: Let's assume that you have a BAB of +15/+10/+5. (I am ignoring all other possible modifiers to keep this simple. Add those modifiers when appropriate.) If you make a move action (more than a 5ft step, up to your character's speed), then you have a Standard action, with which you can perform one attack. You can either perform a regular attack, OR you can use your special attack options Sunder and Trip. Either way, you only get one attack. If you only take a 5ft step, or do not move, you can perform a full round action, which would give you three attacks at the listed bonuses. Again, you can either perform regular attack or use one of your special options. (Thus, with three attacks, you could: 1st attack: Sunder, 2nd Attack: Trip, 3rd Attack: Strike the now prone, unarmored target.) You don't have to use that order, it's just one example. Cleave triggers anytime you kill something with a melee strike, irregardless of Standard Attack, Full Attack, or even Attack of Opportunity. Power Attack interacts with all of these rules in a unique way. To use Power Attack, you take a penalty to ALL attacks in that round, and add that penalty to your Damage for each successful attack. The penalties and bonuses last until your next round, so they even affect any attacks of opportunity you make. Thus, when you choose your penalty, you must apply it to every attack roll, wether or not the attack roll is for an attack that deals damage or not. So, let's say that you take a -5 penalty to your attacks for a round and use my Sunder, Trip, Attack the Prone Guy pattern example. Your Sunder (1st attack) and Attack the Prone Guy (3rd Attack) benefit since both attacks deal damage on a successful roll. However, your Trip Attack doesn't deal damage, so it suffers. You have to accept the penalty at the start of the round, so your attack roll to start the trip MUST take that penalty, but since it's an opposed Strength (or Dex for the other guy, occasionally) roll to see if you trip, your bonus to damage is non-existent. Thus, I advise a little caution: Don't trip on a round where you use Power Attack unless you're pretty sure you can make the attack roll, even with a penalty. (On a side note, I might consider a house rule that says you could add your Power Attack bonus to the opposed roll to see if you trip the person, but I would also say that you take an equal penalty if you fail to trip the person and they get the free trip against you. HOWEVER, that's a house rule I would consider, and certainly not RAW.) Does that clarify anything? Or is it Clear as Mud?
Tempest Stormwind 11-01-06, 04:26 PM	Here's a model you might like. An attack is an Attack action. Other things that specify attack actions, like, say, tripping, are also Attack actions. Things such as flurry or two-weapon fighting add Attack actions. Similarly, you gain one additional Attack action per 5 points of base attack. You can spend a Standard Action (you get one per turn) to make one Attack action, or you can spend both a Move Action and a Standard Action at once (that is, a full-round action) to make one Attack action per attack you get. If you're a Fighter 20, you have four Attack actions. If you have all three Two-weapon Fighting feats, you have seven Attack actions total. If you spend a standard action, you can make one attack, which can be anything described as an Attack action. If you spend a full-round action, you can make seven Attack actions, since that's how many you'd get. In both cases, you can freely substitute attack actions -- you could make normal attacks, trips, disarms, and so on. Do note that sometimes a particular action can prevent you from continuing on a full attack -- you could make two Attacks and then decide to drop a weapon (Free action) and grapple someone. This introduces its own rules (see Grapple). Some actions specify they take Standard actions to do, such as feinting. These are NOT attack actions, they are standard actions -- meaning you can spend a standard action to do them. If you spend a full-round action on a full attack -- that is, using all your attack actions -- you cannot also use a standard action, nor can you use standard actions as those attacks. Does that help?
FrostHammer 11-01-06, 06:45 PM	Let's assume that you have a BAB of +15/+10/+5. (I am ignoring all other possible modifiers to keep this simple. Add those modifiers when appropriate.) If you only take a 5ft step, or do not move, you can perform a full round action, which would give you three attacks at the listed bonuses. Again, you can either perform regular attack or use one of your special options. (Thus, with three attacks, you could: 1st attack: Sunder, 2nd Attack: Trip, 3rd Attack: Strike the now prone, unarmored target.) Umm...you can sunder armor? If so, that completely and utterly kicks ass.
Aegeu 11-01-06, 07:35 PM	I believe he meant unarmed. You cannot sunder armor.