Post/Author/DateTime	Post
flipoflak92 11-26-06, 07:36 PM	Like my title says, I am having trouble deciding on a class for my character. I have already made one character, but I don't think I am going to like how it will play out. Not as in power, but in flavor. Currently he is a Level 1 Human Ranger. And I don't really want to be a Ranger, so I am planning on making a new character, but keeping all of his stats. So basically just redesigning him. So at the moment, I am just looking for ideas of different classes. How you would arrange the stat scores. The book it is out of, and the starting gold it has, incase I don't have the book it is out of. His stats as rolled were 17 18 14 13 16 18 ( Those are the best stats I have ever rolled) I was hoping for a class that was rather sneaky, and had a lot of chances for interesting roleplaying, and flavor situations. Thanks a ton in advance, to everyone who contributes Nick *edit* If any of this doesnt make any sense, just post what doesn't and I will try to edit it to make more sense.
DarkNick 11-26-06, 07:53 PM	Well Nick, good name by the way, Any character can have lots of roleplaying chances and flavour so it does not really matter what class you choose. The obvious choice would be to play a rogue. They are sneaky and have lots of skills. You have the sort of "holy cow!" stats that would be good for anything. The way I would play it is Str 13 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 17 Wis 16 Chr 18 Though if you more into fighting swap the 17 and 16 with Str and Con. - Lots of skills, plenty of rogish charm, plenty of sneaky possibility...all good.
Aratex 11-26-06, 07:55 PM	With those scores, you could excel at pretty much anything you wanted. As far as flavor, though, perhaps a Beguiler? Kind of a rogue/illusionist mix found in Player's Handbook 2, pg 6. The book says that high int, cha, dex, and con are all very important for the class. If you wanted to be more fighter sneaky, maybe a Ninja? They're almost rogues with a little monk flavor (unarmored, but wis to AC and AC bonuses as you level). That'd be on pg 5 of Complete Adventurer. Dex and wis are their primary scores, but everyone who plans to melee benefits from str and con.
GaffeR 11-26-06, 07:58 PM	Books open? Check the Beshadowed Blade in my sig.
Ruslanchik 11-26-06, 08:13 PM	Why not go with a bard? You can be as sneaky as you want, will have the best role-playing opportunities, and will be flexible enough to excel at many things. If you go STR 17 DEX 18 CON 14 INT 16 WIS 13 CHA 18 you will have a combat ready build for both melee and ranged weapons. A human bard would be even better at combat because of the extra feat, and one extra skill point each level would help your sneakiness.
red_scare87 11-26-06, 08:35 PM	Hmmm... If you want to play an interesting sneaky character, why don't you try the Lurk, with plans to take the Ebon Saint PrC? The Lurk is much like a Psionic Assassin type. It's out of Complete Psionic, so you would need it to play. It's one of the only things from that book that are worth anything. For stats I would go with: Str: 17 Dex: 18 Con: 16 Wis: 14 Int: 18 Cha: 13 The Lurk is fantastic IMO, it might make a nice choice.
Drucilla_Rocks_my_Socks 11-26-06, 09:10 PM	I envy those stats. I'd go generalist rogue. The stats you rolled were so damn good that you realy are good to go as a UMD/generalist rogue. I'd do: Strength 16 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 17 Wis 13 Cha 18 Maby switch strength and dex if you want a little more melee. Take max ranks in UMD. But decent amounts into stealth and interaction, and just a little into open lock (Try getting your hands on scrolls and wands of knock, and and adamiantium light mace to get through doors...or hell, a heavy mace to take advantage of your strength). He'd be fun to play. Scouting? Check? Role playing? Check? Cool things to do to solve problems? Check? Dishing it out in melee? Check. Dishing it out with a bow/wand? Check.
Ashok_Lal 11-27-06, 12:45 AM	A monk! good sneaking abillities. But a monk with those sort of stats is nigh-on unstopable. STR18, DEX18, CON16, INT14, WIS17, CHA13. Wow hits fast hits hard & great AC. There are some great monk PrC's out there
skeeter_dan 11-27-06, 01:55 AM	For a monk I'd put the second 18 into Wis instead of Dex. Still bumps AC but also boosts Stunning Fist saves and related attacks, which is one of my favorite elements of the monk class.
unusualsuspect 11-27-06, 02:28 AM	Here's a build i designed around a fast, sneaky, acrobatic warrior-type. Swordsage 1/Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 1/Ardent 2/Swordsage +2/Ardent +1/Blade Dancer 1/Bloodclaw Master 2/Blade Dancer +6/Swordsage +1 Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (dagger), Shadowblade, Dodge, Weapon Finesse, Mobility, Spring Attack, Up the Walls, Leap of the Heavens, and Bounding Assault. Maneuvers: 1st - Sudden Leap, Clinging Shadow Strike, Burning Blade, Mighty Throw, Wind Strike, Wolf Fang Strike, 3rd - Cloak of Deception, Soaring Raptor Strike, 4th - Fountain of Blood, 7th - Death in the Dark Stances: Island of Blades, Assassin's Stance Mantles: Fate (Offensive Precognition, Clairvoyant Sense) Force (Force Screen, Deflection Field) Time (none) End result: BAB: +16 Fort: +10 Refl: +16 Will: +10 Sneak Attack +3d6 (add 2d6 if you're in Assassin's stance) Dex to Damage +20 competence bonus to balance, jump, and tumble can take 10 with balance, jump, and tumble Base Speed 80 ft. Wis modifier to AC in light or no armor No penalty when TWFing with Daggers Full Strength modifier for off-hand dagger attacks Shifting 1/day Air Walk 1/day Self-enchanting blade Dex modifier +3 to initiative A favorite tactice of mind would probably be to sneak up behind your target, start in assassin stance, and perform a Death in the Dark maneuver in the surprise round, dealing weapon damage +20d6 if they fail the fort save, +10d6 if they succeed. This should be followed by a full round TWFing full attack on the still flatfooted opponent, given your initiative should be at least +12 or 13 by the time you're 20th. Anyone who can guess what video game character this is based off of gets a vague feeling of satisfaction for me.
kelvinaw273 11-27-06, 04:38 AM	A monk! good sneaking abillities. But a monk with those sort of stats is nigh-on unstopable. STR18, DEX18, CON16, INT14, WIS17, CHA13. Wow hits fast hits hard & great AC. There are some great monk PrC's out there I'll second that with: STR17, DEX18, CON16, INT14, WIS18, CHA13. I'd use a psionic race (kalashtar by preference) and go Monk/Fist of Zuoken (also called Psionic Fist) at 8th level. You can then take the powers that allow you to enhance/protect yourself and the Psionic Fist feat tree for bonus damage.
flipoflak92 11-27-06, 03:28 PM	Wow all of those ideas are really interesting. Thanks, but keep'em comming, I am still undecided. Although the Monk ideas do look good, along with the Ninja (I've played one before, and had quite a bit of fun with it). But like I said, I'm still not sure. But thanks for all of the ideas :) Oh, and DarkNick, yes i know it is a good name ;). Nick
Chrono Nexus 11-27-06, 03:33 PM	Cleric of travel and fire. Nuff said.
Bolaneer 11-28-06, 02:56 AM	Personally, I think that the skills you use are what make the flavor...you say you want to be sneaky, okay, you can still do that as a ranger. Capitalize on your favored enemy, track, and ranger abilities, especially with those nice high scores, with some light armor that won't penalize you badly andtake move silent, listen, and hide skills to show how good you are at scouting and studying an area, maybe a little survival and geograhical knowledge or dungeoneering knowledge would be neat also...craft (trapmaking is fun too) the class may just not sound right because of the way youve seen it played...don't forget a nice backstory that explains what you hunt and why, it will make you play with a calculated vengence. Ranger has been a favorite class of mine for a long time and I have played nearly a dozen (maybe more) variations of rangers with very similar scores, but with different ways of handling opponents, in a party I bring back info to the group so we can plan ahead...solo, I se traps and lure my foe right where I want him...if you wanna multiclass it can only expand your options...there is no class I will not try, but there is also no class that I play exceptionally well at either.
Sphyre 11-28-06, 04:17 AM	With those stats I would take the opportunity to play a MAD (Multiple ability dependant) character. It's not everyday that you get those stats. Like people have said you could do pretty much anything with those stats. Moreso, you said you wanted to play someone sneaky with good opportunity for role play. In that case you would want to choose a rogue-like class, possibly a multiclass version due to your high stats. Of the rogue-like classes not mentioned, and also with great roleplay potential, I would go with a Beguiler. Yeah, it's a waste of the good stats, but it just looks so interesting. It fills all the roles of a rogue, minus damage dealing, and adds magic and social skills making a very unique chance for roleplay/sneak options. One thing is for sure with those stats, you'll definately have enough stats to have a reasonable charisma to make your character the likable type that always gets away with his lies. More importantly than anything else, make sure you pick a class you'll enjoy.
something_profound 11-28-06, 10:24 AM	Are you still staying as a human? or is a Halfling monk an option with the scores as: Str - 17 Dex - 18 Con - 16 Int - 14 Wis - 18 Cha - 13 would be changed to Str - 15 Dex - 20 Con - 16 Int - 14 Wis - 18 Cha - 13 all for a total AC of 20 :rolleyes: sorry i'm being a bit of a munchkin here (Wish i could roll those kind of numbers:weep:)
flipoflak92 11-28-06, 03:56 PM	Personally, I think that the skills you use are what make the flavor.... snip I agree with you, but I just don't think the flavor of the Ranger class appealed to me. I mean it is a rather well designed class, but i just didnt like all of the abilities it gets. The favored enemy is cool, but I don't know it just didnt appeal to me. As for my back story, I was planning on using this as the skeleton for my backround. " As a young child, Aeidel ( The Shining, or Morning Star... when translated), was abandoned by his parents because they grew to poor to support him, and just left him in the wilderness. And later that day, when a mentor *insert class here*hears him crying out in the woods. So he [the mentor] decides to go and rescue the baby. After about 5 years my character is starting to complete his training, when an *insert monster here* ambushes his mentor, and brutally kills him. Seeing this horrific incedent my character swears to kill every last one of the beasts that killed his master/mentor. And then he swears to train an apprentice of his own, to make up for his masters cause, and train more apprentices of *insert class here*. And eventually make a whole training guild where others can learn some of the secrets of the class. * but there won't be as many metagamey terms in the detailed backround* . With those stats I would take the opportunity to play a MAD (Multiple ability dependant) character. It's not everyday that you get those stats. Like people have said you could do pretty much anything with those stats. Moreso, you said you wanted to play someone sneaky with good opportunity for role play. In that case you would want to choose a rogue-like class, possibly a multiclass version due to your high stats. Of the rogue-like classes not mentioned, and also with great roleplay potential, I would go with a Beguiler. Yeah, it's a waste of the good stats, but it just looks so interesting. It fills all the roles of a rogue, minus damage dealing, and adds magic and social skills making a very unique chance for roleplay/sneak options. One thing is for sure with those stats, you'll definately have enough stats to have a reasonable charisma to make your character the likable type that always gets away with his lies. More importantly than anything else, make sure you pick a class you'll enjoy. Personally as a player, I don't like to deal with spells..well atleast arcane ones. I just think there are to many to chose from, and can't decide. And in general I would rather hide and attack from the shadows then have to hide behind everyone just to live through a battle at lower levels. And yes, you are right in saying that you should pick fun over anything else. I'll tell that to some of my friends at the table :). Are you still staying as a human? or is a Halfling monk an option No, I'm up for changing my race. :cool: And on a sidenote: What do you think of the backround that I've come up with so far. I can't really get into more detail until I decide on a class. But I appreciate everything you guys and girls have shown me. All of them are good ideas. Thanks :)
Sphyre 11-28-06, 04:26 PM	Personally as a player, I don't like to deal with spells..well atleast arcane ones. I just think there are to many to chose from, and can't decide. And in general I would rather hide and attack from the shadows then have to hide behind everyone just to live through a battle at lower levels. And yes, you are right in saying that you should pick fun over anything else. I'll tell that to some of my friends at the table :). Awww, that's a pity, because I love spells! :D I love the options. Well it does seem like going rogue, some PrC, or multiclass would go well for you. Nice thing about the beguiler though is they are spontaneous casters with a huge list. When you think "oh I want to cast this spell" you cast it, no preparation, or predetermining what spells you'll take throughout your beguiler career. It's the best of both worlds. I know a lot of people who tend to like Rogue/Fighters, you Sneak Attacking with your already high stats would make you a mean rogue along with tanking ability, albeit, to sneak you would have to use light armor to keep your ACP low or non-existant. And on a sidenote: What do you think of the backround that I've come up with so far. I can't really get into more detail until I decide on a class. But I appreciate everything you guys and girls have shown me. All of them are good ideas. Thanks :) It's a skeleton for a background. I can say it's much better than some backgrounds i've read, but there's always room for improvement, right? What's his alignment? What's his outlook on life? How does he feel about his parents just dumping him out in the wilderness? Was the mentor surprised by how much a child just left in the wilderness could excel in anything that he taught him? (High stats) Or was Aeidel lazy, and even though he had the ability never showed his potential because he felt like he was discarded trash by his parents? How did his mentor treat him? Like a father? Like a younger brother? Like a friend, or simply someone in need? At least for me... I love to get in my character's head... Which is one reason I like playing screwed up characters with internal mental conflicts. I once played an evil character who would do good every now and then because that's what he really wanted to do, but he was too absorbed by the power of evil to do the right thing most of the time. He had a huge background that made him a very fun character to play. If the campaign went longer, it could have been possible for him to redeem himself and return to the side of good. If you want more help with fleshing out the backgrounds, I'd be willing to help.
Ryusage 11-28-06, 05:05 PM	Well, with stats like that a monk would be a good bet. Plus some awesome roleplay. Your character could be disgusted and dismayed at the chaos in the world and try to convince people to join your monastery and learn the secrets of self-discipline and inner peace.
Elemental_Elf 11-28-06, 05:53 PM	With those stats, I'd totally go for a Cleric/Rogue/Black Flame Zealot. This combo is particularly enjoyable because it blends 2 really cool classes together into an interesting character with loads of RP potential. STR: 16 DEX: 18 CON: 14 INT: 13* WIS: 18 CHA 17 Feats: Exotic Weapon Prof. - Kukri, Iron Will & Any Divine Metamagic Feat or Weapon Finesse. Cleric Domains: Destruction and Luck (or Fire, depends on your style). * Switch INT and CHA if you want to use more skills and don't want to use Divine Metamagic.
Chrono Nexus 11-28-06, 06:15 PM	You say you'de like to play a ranger? And you don't mind looking at other races? You might be interested in this race. Lupis (http://mini200000.proboards58.com/index.cgi?board=illuria&action=display&thread=1161221085) Make sure you refresh yourselves on the rules about secondary natural attacks (their bite is secondary when combined with any other attack). So far there have been four Lupis ever made by players (that I know of).
flipoflak92 11-28-06, 07:50 PM	....It's a skeleton for a background. I can say it's much better than some backgrounds i've read, but there's always room for improvement, right? What's his alignment? What's his outlook on life? How does he feel about his parents just dumping him out in the wilderness? Was the mentor surprised by how much a child just left in the wilderness could excel in anything that he taught him? (High stats) Or was Aeidel lazy, and even though he had the ability never showed his potential because he felt like he was discarded trash by his parents? How did his mentor treat him? Like a father? Like a younger brother? Like a friend, or simply someone in need? At least for me... I love to get in my character's head... Which is one reason I like playing screwed up characters with internal mental conflicts. I once played an evil character who would do good every now and then because that's what he really wanted to do, but he was too absorbed by the power of evil to do the right thing most of the time. He had a huge background that made him a very fun character to play. If the campaign went longer, it could have been possible for him to redeem himself and return to the side of good. If you want more help with fleshing out the backgrounds, I'd be willing to help. Yes, I know it is a skeleton of a backround, but I haven't really gotten to know him yet either, all I have is his stats, so far. But I would love for you to help me out with the backround :). But keep the fresh ideas coming, they are all very helpful. I'm starting to limit the hundreds of choices down now :). But thanks again to everyone who has, or will post thier ideas. THANKS!
Sphyre 11-28-06, 09:02 PM	Yes, I know it is a skeleton of a backround, but I haven't really gotten to know him yet either, all I have is his stats, so far. But I would love for you to help me out with the backround :). But keep the fresh ideas coming, they are all very helpful. I'm starting to limit the hundreds of choices down now :). But thanks again to everyone who has, or will post thier ideas. THANKS! Another idea is that you could take 4 levels of rogue, then one level of psion and then go into the Elocator PrC. Use the Psionic powers simply to augment yourself, and you've got a fun floating flanking fighter. With psionics you only have a few limited powers with that build so it shouldn't overwhelm you like a black flame zealot might. Now that I think about it, the Lurk might be better for that... just 5 straight levels of lurk, but you can do it any way you want. One thing that your backstory seems to lack right now, is why does he choose to be a sneaky character? What did his mentor teach him? Did he teach him very little so he had to make by with stealing things? How long was he alone between the time he was abandoned and found? How did he get by? How long was he with his parents? What was his life like when he was with them? What does he value? Did he make friends well? Who were his friends? How did he live with his mentor? Did he have to do chores? Was he well fed? Did he appriciate his mentor? Just try to gain a clearer and clearer picture over time.
RBoulanger 11-28-06, 09:22 PM	The monk or cleric sound like the best options for your character history (imo). The wanting to gather initiates to the cause would be something that a cleric would definitely do and a monk may do. But both of these lead to many more questions, such as why was the monk/cleric mentor dude not a part of a monastery/church? the history sounded much like mentor guy (mg from now on) was on his own, which works very well for the ranger (as does the killing aspect). If you want to go into a town instead of the wilderness with mg, then you have the option of a mugging or, better yet, political plots to have offed your master. It might make for a more fun character if you don't know what/who to be mad at and tell the DM to make that part of the quest for your character: finding out who is really behind your master's death. I would probably go Monk myself. Then you have to deal with the serenity of monastic life contrasted to the seething anger inside your character (which would give him reason to leave the monastery and begin adventuring). I also liked the idea of the Psionic Fist at 6-8 level. Then you could take the Wild Talent feat at first level and play with some of the Psionic Feats if you wish to do so. You could also work in the fact that these Psionic powers were slightly awakened at mg's death, causing you to do something nasty to the perp that you don't remember, but which did not enable you to question the person who killed him. Of course, if you don't have the Psionic Handbook, this is out of the question. Hope this helps.
adamb0nd 11-29-06, 01:18 PM	would make a fun LE Monk/Assassin.
arjomanes 11-29-06, 11:55 PM	A rogue/cleric/shadowbane stalker might work with stats like those (complete adventurer). A changeling rogue/chameleon (eberron and races of destiny) would be interesting too. Of course, you can look into the dervish, invisible blade, and master thrower prcs in complete warrior. Those have lots of flavor and great combat abilities, in addition to being able to be built on a rogue or scout base. You could try rogue 3/swashbuckler 3/invisible blade 5/dervish 9, or maybe rogue 5/invisible blade 5/nightsong enforcer 10. NE is in complete adventurer.
flipoflak92 12-01-06, 11:42 AM	Cool, Thanks everyone. But I still don't know which class I want to be :(. But if you want to keep the ideas coming. Thanks And Sphyre is it ok if I P.M. you and then work on my backstory that way? Thanks again everyone. Thanks.
Sphyre 12-01-06, 06:09 PM	And Sphyre is it ok if I P.M. you and then work on my backstory that way? Knock yourself out, but character class is a big part of your character, you should decide that before going on in creating your background, as it can help a lot in the design.
flipoflak92 12-01-06, 06:11 PM	I decided to go with a Rogue character. I think I will put my stats in this order: STR 18 DEX 18 CON 16 INT 14 WIS 13 CHA 17 With my race.. either Human STR 18, DEX 18, CON 16, INT 14, WIS 13, CHA 17... and atleast 44 skill points at first level, and 9 hit points And atleast 14 AC Or, Halfling STR 16, DEX 20, CON 16, INT 14, WIS 13, CHA 17 Minimum of 16 AC, and 40 skill points But I'm not sure which one to use...They both seem good :-\. Which one do you think I should use? thanks
Dei 12-01-06, 09:27 PM	I decided to go with a Rogue character. I think I will put my stats in this order: STR 18 DEX 18 CON 16 INT 14 WIS 13 CHA 17 With my race.. either Human STR 18, DEX 18, CON 16, INT 14, WIS 13, CHA 17... and atleast 44 skill points at first level, and 9 hit points And atleast 14 AC Or, Halfling STR 16, DEX 20, CON 16, INT 14, WIS 13, CHA 17 Minimum of 16 AC, and 40 skill points But I'm not sure which one to use...They both seem good :-\. Which one do you think I should use? thanks Looks good but one suggestion I'd make is that you swap out str and int and grab the weapon finesse feat. Rogues are usually built around their skills and so squeezing every last point you can out of each level is very useful and they tend to use finessible weapons more often than not. Also, it's rare that a rogue will need extra str damage with the opportunity of sneak attack to hand. Trust me, an extra two skill points per level may not seem much but int is the essential stat for most rogue skills and over the course of your first five levels those extra points will build up to 16 extra skill points for you to play around with.
flipoflak92 12-01-06, 10:28 PM	Looks good but one suggestion I'd make is that you swap out str and int and grab the weapon finesse feat. Rogues are usually built around their skills and so squeezing every last point you can out of each level is very useful and they tend to use finessible weapons more often than not. Also, it's rare that a rogue will need extra str damage with the opportunity of sneak attack to hand. Trust me, an extra two skill points per level may not seem much but int is the essential stat for most rogue skills and over the course of your first five levels those extra points will build up to 16 extra skill points for you to play around with. Yes, you may be right there, but the more strength that ou have you do that much damage atleast, per attack. So even if I don't get a sneak attack in, I still get +3 to damage. Maybe i could switch Int with Cha, and then Charisma with Con? So it would be STR:16, DEX:20, CON:14, INT: 17, WIS:13, CHA: 16? I like that layout actually. I think that one would be very good at the table what about you? Thanks for your opinion though :)
Sphyre 12-02-06, 11:50 AM	Yes, you may be right there, but the more strength that ou have you do that much damage atleast, per attack. So even if I don't get a sneak attack in, I still get +3 to damage. Maybe i could switch Int with Cha, and then Charisma with Con? So it would be STR:16, DEX:20, CON:14, INT: 17, WIS:13, CHA: 16? I like that layout actually. I think that one would be very good at the table what about you? Thanks for your opinion though :) It's actually widely agreed that int is a primary point of the rogue, and weapon finesse and sneak attack is enough for damage. If you go with the 17 int it's costing you 6 skill points that you could have from level 1-3, that's a whole in-class skill you could have maxed. with a 16 str, you'd have +3 damage if you picked up weapon finesse, and that's not even the average value of 1d6 damage from 2 levels of rogue for sneak attack. You could consider 15 str, 20 dex, 14 con, 18 int, wis 13 cha 16, and get the same effect, except when you level up at 4th level, you get a retroactive change, while if you go up in int, your skill points don't go up retroactively. Also, the closer your str and dex are in values, the lesser the need for having that high of a dex anyway, or even taking weapon finesse. Either way, with your high cha, you'll be able to do your use magic device checks with some reliability, lie with some reliablity, and an all around charismatic character :) Upto you in the end...