Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kelyme 01-10-05, 12:04 PM	Alright I will start off with my character. Name: Kale Gender: Male Alignment: Neutral Evil Race: Human Class/Level: Swashbuckler/3 Rogue/2 Fighter/2 Feats: Quick Draw, Flick of the Wrist, Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, Dodge Skills...I don't have my sheet with me but my hide, painting, move silently, bluff, and a few others are 10-15 all together. Str: 14 Dex: 18 Con:16 Int: 16 Wis:14 Cha: 16 AC is 18, or 19 with dodge bonus, +4 chain shirt, +4 dex Hp: 81, rolled really well Gold: About 1100 ________________________________________ _ Let's see where to begin, well I won't start from the start it will take to long so to make a long story short, me and my group of about 8 took out a guy with a challenge rating of 30 he was a paladin who was took over by about 100 spirits or so and we rolled extremely well and ended up taking him out. Later one of my party members got papers from the village elder proving that we had disposed of the graveyard (which was our original quest, it was completed when the guy died) and that we had disposed of this man who had been destroying towns. I found out, I "lifted" the papers off of my party member, after a thowing off the metagaming from a couple of bastards I left town, bougt a horse and and now heading back toward the town in which we were assigned the quest to claim the reward all for myself. This is a 12 day journey, I am cutting it in half with the horse, my party members don't all have horses. I left at least a day before they did. I am going to attempt now to collect the reward, collect another reward from the church for the information, join an assassins guild. Get magical items that will let me infiltrate my group and join them again. I might not need to tell you this but I may have a few problems. First off I need to know where the items are that I list. 1) an item that lets you polymorph yourself for an indefinite time. 2) an item that permanently either changes or gets rid of your scent (half cat in our group who could smell me). 3) an item that changes what spell casters detect my alignment to be 4) I don't know if this exists but something that will overcome things such as discern truth, and zone of truth or whatever else. 5) if you can think of other items that would help, name them. Alright if you can give me a book for the items I would be grateful, we have most of the D&D supplements in our group, so feel free to name whatever you think helpful. Oh, and I am going to burn all the possessions I have now so nothing can be traced to my old character. The reason I need these things are because of the 2 paladins, 1 cleric, and 1 half celestial in our group, just tell me anything I need to infiltrate my group successfully. Remember the amount of gold I gain should be quite large, but not infinite. Eh if this doesn't work out I will be forced to make up some ******** to hopefully save my life, if I don't get the money I can say I was just traveling ahead, if I do get the money I must get the items and infiltrate. So please help me out with your superior gaming knowledge. ;) P.S. if you need anymore information, just ask.
Aramil_silverwind 01-10-05, 01:01 PM	Me and my group of about 8 took out a guy with a challenge rating of 30 he was a paladin who was took over by about 100 spirits or so and we rolled extremely well and ended up taking him out. First of all, your DM deserves the 'Shot with a Hammer' award. I don't care how many level 7s are fighting, the CR 30 should have smooshed you. We're talking MORE than the difference between a goblin (no class levels) and a lv.20 character. You shouldn't have been able to hit him without a nat. 20, and he should have killed a PC every round or 2 (only missing on a nat. 1). Anyways, I'll help you out... even though with a DM like yours you really don't need it much. 1) an item that lets you polymorph yourself for an indefinite time. There isn't one. The closest thing I can think of is a Hat of Disguise. Sorry to rain on your parade. 2) an item that permanently either changes or gets rid of your scent (half cat in our group who could smell me). Um... why not just buy some powerful perfume? Other than that... any item that duplicates Prestigitation would be able to perform that slack. 3) an item that changes what spell casters detect my alignment to be Um... helloooo? Anything with um..say... ***UNDETECTABLE ALIGNMENT*** might work. 4) I don't know if this exists but something that will overcome things such as discern truth, and zone of truth or whatever else. If you want to kill #4 and #5 at once, skip undetecable alignment and go for Misdirection instead. 5) if you can think of other items that would help, name them. A sword of true striking. Shouldn't be too hard to get your hands on one... I mean its only a 1st level spell, right? And I'm sure that your DM wouldn't see anything wrong with it.
Thoronmir 01-10-05, 01:36 PM	Assuming you obtain the reward, why would you want to “rejoin” this party? Surely your 16 INT is high enough for you to realize what a risk you’d be taking in trying to pull off a long-term “infiltration” of the PC party. You must have calculated that whatever monetary gain you get for the reward outweighs any profit you could have expected to receive as a long-term member of the party. Why else risk so much? No, your solution is not to add a fake mustache, change your clothes, and bathe in perfume. Your best strategy now is to find a brand new group of suckers to swindle. After all, any PC with your stats is smart/wise enough to only risk expulsion from the party (or worse) in order to further your true goals. Your true goal seems to be acquiring wealth. Though the purpose of said wealth escapes me since you seem prepared to spend all that you’ve gained just to return to the status quo as a member of the party. Perhaps you can clarify your situation. Why did your PC join this group in the first place? What did he hope to accomplish? How does stealing from the party further that goal? If remaining a member of the party is important to your PC, why didn’t he plan his “reinfiltration” beforehand? Have you thought any further than your PC’s next donut?
Zagan 01-10-05, 01:39 PM	*hands over the award* ..... consider the atmosphere in your group after such a .... nasty thing otherwise it'll might be a nice roleplaying experience i agree with aramil that you should get a sword of true strike. considering the polymorphing item ... ask your Dm about one with alter self it'll be cheaper and he might give it to you . try taking levels in disciple of Mammon it gives SR against anything trying to detect lies
eudas 01-10-05, 01:46 PM	What Thoronmir said -- why spend all your money and lose your stuff just to rejoin the suckers that you just ripped off, unless you have a damned good reason to? Not that I don't admire what you've done -- I'm not one of the "I hate all evil characters" people you see on the boards -- but without a reason to go back and rejoin them, there is a certain logical end-point to it all. You've accomplished your mission with this character -- you've ripped off the party and successfully made a great BBEG for a later quest. I would think that the next thing to do would be to make up a new character and join them in hunting your new character down... eudas
Phrennzy 01-10-05, 02:40 PM	...me and my group of about 8 took out a guy with a challenge rating of 30 he was a paladin You are my hero. 5) if you can think of other items that would help, name them. A sword of true striking. Shouldn't be too hard to get your hands on one... I mean its only a 1st level spell, right? And I'm sure that your DM wouldn't see anything wrong with it. No, wait. YOU are my hero
Kelyme 01-10-05, 03:11 PM	It's just that I...uh want to stay in the adventure...I realized it would be smarter for me to just take the money and run, probobly to the town that hot girl that I screwed was in...but anyway...maybe I will just pick up a couple shortswords of true striking...some ****ing black lotus extract poision and do whatever the hell I want...that is if my dm even lets me make it to town...oh and we really were rolling 19 and 20's every other roll, I still think that the DM should have made up lose though, the guys CR could have been 20-30 instead of 30 I am not sure...but he did have 5 attacks and could cast call lightening and had an AC of 32, also like 200 something hp, we used a lot of touch attacks and natural 20s to beat him.
Thoronmir 01-10-05, 03:56 PM	It's just that I...uh want to stay in the adventure...I realized it would be smarter for me to just take the money and run, probobly to the town that hot girl that I screwed was in...but anyway...maybe I will just pick up a couple shortswords of true striking...some ****ing black lotus extract poision and do whatever the hell I want...that is if my dm even lets me make it to town That explains your motive as a player … to stay in the adventure. I was referring to your motive as a character. I don’t object to Evil PCs out of hand. I’ve seen some very well played Evil characters. I’ve even been known to play an Evil PC now and then. So please don’t misinterpret my questions as suggesting I oppose Evil PCs. But every PC needs a roleplaying justification to join a party. It’s usually more difficult to devise that justification when the party has mixed alignments. You seem to have realized that the other PCs aren’t likely to welcome you back with open arms (hence your concern for changing your appearance). Those characters have no reason to want you around. That makes sense. What doesn’t make sense is why your character would want to rejoin them. Yes, you can buy your swords and do “whatever you want.” Just remember, you (not your DM) decided to divide the party without good reason (I’m still curious what your roleplaying reason was for stealing the paper that will get you the reward). Maybe you’re on the CE side of NE and you just don’t plan ahead. That’ll make it even harder to fit in with a Good party. Either way, you ought not to expect your DM to bail you out; nor should you punish your DM for your mistake by making his job more difficult. Actually, this might be an exception to my standard rule against PvP. I’d probably let you keep playing your PC and let the rest of the party hunt you down.
Kelyme 01-10-05, 05:46 PM	First of all you don't understand, I haven't made the choice yet and though a few pc's believe it, they don't know that I plan to steal from them and they don't know that I for sure stole it, that and they wouldn't care if I stole the paper as long as I don't steal the money. In fact I might wuss out of it and just become an assassin instead of disipate myself from the group. **** though if the other pcs came after me what makes you think I would lose? I would leave town join a big assassins guild and if necessary get an NPC from the assassins guild to take them out one by one, I don't plan on doing that though. The reason that my character did this is because he was chaotic neutral, did things on impulse, my DM made me change my alignment to evil when I planed to rip off my party members but didn't give me a penalty for it. Anyway, my characters wisdom is a 14 and my DM I am fairly sure won't mind if I choose not to deter the group in their togetherness, I think he already empathically suggested this in game since the NPC that travels with our group suggested herself that I am impatient and might have just went on ahead without the rest of the group. and not to rip them off, the indesivness of my character will let me do this without too much trouble I am fairly sure, the one who will be against me the most is considered the dumbest one in the group anyway.
Super Guy 01-10-05, 06:25 PM	Well, first off, unless your DM has a loose way of DMing, you can't just up-and-join an assassin's guild. They don't hand out flyers, you know. You'd have to have connections. Otherwise, religious leaders seeking to purge the world of assassins and their ilk would gather information, find the guild, and fights of massive proportions would ensue. Second, they wouldn't say "Ok, you're a guild member, we'll save you from your party" They'd probably make you pay a hefty fee. And anyways, this is a terrible idea since it'd effectively end the campaign and make your friends mad at you :( However, I can tell you this: my DM allows the creation of an item of Misdirection. It will automatically detect you as whatever you have at the time of creation. For example, you're lawful evil and want to sneak into a church? Get a ring of Misdirection: Lawful Good. It will thwart anything that misdirection will normally thwart.
PhaedrusXY 01-10-05, 07:09 PM	I'm with Thoronmir on this one. It reminds me of that movie "The Italian Job", where Ed Norton is a thief who rips off all his friends and keeps all the money they just stole for himself. He sure didn't try to sneak his way back into joining them, and it wouldn't have made sense for him to. He instantly became their arch-enemy. At this point, I think your only two reasonable options from a roleplaying point of view are to try resolve your problems with the party and fix whatever damage you've done, or make a new PC and give your old one to the DM as an NPC. Leaving the party and hiring a group of assassins to kill them (or joining one for that purpose) is the kind of things NPCs do, not PCs. As a DM, if you tried that I'd tell you to make a new character and I'd use your old one as an NPC. You can't really run a game where one or more characters is totally separated from the rest of the group all the time, and is plotting to kill them. It is just too much of a hassle. It's bad enough when the party temporarily splits up in a dungeon... And I'm not one of the people who objects outright to roleplaying evil PCs, either. As a matter of fact, I rather enjoy it. ;) But even if you're playing in an all evil group, you have to have reasons to work together and not try to screw each other over at every turn, otherwise the game will quickly degenerate into everyone killing each other, or just leaving the party. I think characters of chaotic non-good alignments are more difficult to have in a party than evil non-chaotic alignments. Chaotic Evil has the most difficult time "playing well with others". The only real way to insure long-term party harmony in a group with Chaotic Evil members is to have some really powerful authority figure who will bully them into working together, or some other overwhelming threat that is insured to destroy them all if they don't work together. There are exceptions to this, of course, but it takes mature roleplayers to pull them off.
Draco Strang 01-11-05, 02:22 AM	Posted by Super Guy:Well, first off, unless your DM has a loose way of DMing, you can't just up-and-join an assassin's guild. They don't hand out flyers, you know. I actually snorted, thinking of Artemis Entreri enrolling in the assassin guild with said flyer: "Hey, it says here I get a free T-shirt with membership?" But in all seriousness this seems to be a pretty broken campaign. 8 PCs is a big group, and how are level 7 characters beating up a 30th level paladin? He could very probably kill you with his +5 keen holy avenger cold iron longsword, 22 strength, 26 charisma, and an AC in the upper 40's. If he smote you, you'd definitely be feeling the burn. That's where this campaign went awry, in my opinion. Also, how ****** is the group gonna be when they uncover you? Good luck staving off 6 angry party members of the same level.
DyloniusFunk 01-11-05, 09:58 AM	Posted by Super Guy: But in all seriousness this seems to be a pretty broken campaign. 8 PCs is a big group, and how are level 7 characters beating up a 30th level paladin? He could very probably kill you with his +5 keen holy avenger cold iron longsword, 22 strength, 26 charisma, and an AC in the upper 40's. If he smote you, you'd definitely be feeling the burn. That's where this campaign went awry, in my opinion. Actually, the OP only said that the Paladin was CR 30, not Level 30. Not sure what thatb high a CR would translate to into Levels.
Aramil_silverwind 01-11-05, 11:09 AM	but he did have 5 attacks and could cast call lightening and had an AC of 32, also like 200 something hp, we used a lot of touch attacks and natural 20s to beat him. Is there something higher in rank than the 'shot with a hammer' award? Because (without dual weapons or natural weapons) you can NEVER get more than 4 attacks. 200HP? I've seen level 12 fighters that beat 100HP, by 30th this guy should have closer to 350-400HP. And an AC of 32!? How the hell did this guy survive to hit level 30!? He could very probably kill you with his +5 keen holy avenger cold iron longsword, 22 strength, 26 charisma, and an AC in the upper 40's. If he smote you, you'd definitely be feeling the burn. Exatcly my point.... now THOSE are the stats of an epic paladin. Actually, the OP only said that the Paladin was CR 30, not Level 30. Not sure what thatb high a CR would translate to into Levels. Actually, so long as its a core D&D race (or one with LA+0) levels DO cross over to CR on a one-for-one basis.
Draco Strang 01-11-05, 12:13 PM	Originally posted by Aramil_silverwind Exatcly my point.... now THOSE are the stats of an epic paladin. Hey, us epic-paladin stat-realizers gotta stick together.
Aramil_silverwind 01-11-05, 06:59 PM	No, wait. YOU are my hero Well thank you!
Kelyme 01-11-05, 10:24 PM	Damn can none of you sons of *****es stay on subject. I don't give a **** whether I slayed 10 elder wyrm dragons by my damn self at level 7, but that isn't what I am talking about. And yes I did slay 10 elder wyrm dragons at level 7 too, not to brag. :P
Kyaran 01-12-05, 01:39 AM	Uhhh... anyone got a phonebook? We need a 24-hour smiting service over here. :banghead: Evil character gets a clue and goes away. Party finds him again in several levels and grinds him into goblin food. Meanwhile, player makes new PC that's a little less oriented on jacking his party for cash and then rubbing it in their faces by moving back in with them undetectably. This post deserves a severe thrashing from my +2 acidic, flaming burst greatsword. And yes, there's a reason for the acid and flames.
PhaedrusXY 01-12-05, 03:17 AM	Is there something higher in rank than the 'shot with a hammer' award? Because (without dual weapons or natural weapons) you can NEVER get more than 4 attacks.Ever hear of Haste? /em "Shoots Aramil with a hammer". :D
ThePo 01-12-05, 06:30 AM	ROFL. Congrats to Kelyme. He played all of you like fools. This is obviously a joke post or an effort to troll for you fools. My hat is off to you Kelyme. Morever I can't believe these people bought it. /sigh And IF this is a serious post. Well; fire your DM and hit them over the head with a large blunt object and check out page 38 of the 3.5 DMG. At the bottom of the experience chart the second footnote reads... " **The table doesn't support awards for eight or more Challenge Ratings higher than the character's level. If the party is taking on challenges that far abover their level, something strange is going on, and the DM needs to think caerfully about the rewards rather than just taking them off of the table." ROFL, this post kills me. 15 replies and all of the people replying too dumb to see what's right in front of them. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Draco Strang 01-12-05, 07:48 AM	Well ThePo, I'm sorry we actually reply to each post instead of merely lambasting those that do. You're right, every boob who posts their DM's inflated, overpowered campaign is a troll out to play us. Clever of you to call anyone that tries to help (troll or no) "too dumb to see what's in front of them." Thanks for pointing it out. So, doctor, is your PhD. from Yale or Harvard?
Deacon Liadon 01-12-05, 08:16 AM	And IF this is a serious post. Well; fire your DM and hit them over the head with a large blunt object and check out page 38 of the 3.5 DMG. Better yet, hit him over the head with the DMG.
anders 01-12-05, 08:21 AM	Morever I can't believe these people bought it. Read these forums regularly and loose all illusions man... Well, first off, unless your DM has a loose way of DMing, you can't just up-and-join an assassin's guild. They don't hand out flyers, you know. You'd have to have connections. Otherwise, religious leaders seeking to purge the world of assassins and their ilk would gather information, find the guild, and fights of massive proportions would ensue. They *could* be playing in Ankh Morpork :) Kelyme Ok, here is what you do. Find out what the God of evil is in your world, and kill him. This way you will get his portfolio, and you can actually kill at will. without saves. From that point on, hiding your alignment should become very very easy. In case that doesnt work out, you should get yourself a sword of true strike as suggested before.. As mentioned its only a 1 level spell, so it shouldnt cost more than 4,000 gold. This will give you +20 on every attack, so you should be pretty safe from other party members. Or you could invest heaps into Use magic device skill and buy scrolls of polymorph any object. Then take the shape of "Tinker - The flying broomstick", then fly up to the moon to see if its really made of cheese.
Thoronmir 01-12-05, 03:29 PM	The quote from your résumé regarding your victory over those ten Elder Wyrms suggests that this entire thread is, in fact, a hoax. However, on the off chance that this is a “real” thread, let’s reset the stage for a moment … Your CN PC stole the all-important paper from another PC. That act caused your DM to change your alignment from CN to CE. You have at least a day’s head start on the rest of the party on your way to the town where you can redeem the paper for cash. You’re traveling at about twice the party’s rate. It will take you another five days to reach town; it will take the party twelve days once they decide to get on your trail. You haven’t “stolen” the money yet, but you came here asking for help in avoiding the consequences of stealing the money. First, you’d never convince me that you stole the paper without intending to turn it in and get the money. In my business, circumstantial evidence is used to put real people in prison every day. Absent an incredibly convincing and imaginative explanation for why your PC stole the paper and rode away, there is no Bluff check high enough for my PC to believe you. I wasn’t going to mention this either since I don’t want to be indicted as an accomplice in your larceny, but all the other members of the party need to do to confirm your crime is talk to whoever is supposed to pay the money. They’ll get a real good description of whoever turned in the paper. So, that alone will confirm any suspicions they may have. Also, I never assumed the party would kill you. I just said that I’d let them hunt you. As for the Assassins’ Guild notion, I’ll echo the other posters. Assuming you could find that would take you, why would a Guild put its resources at risk for a new member who has yet to provide any benefit to the Guild? I’m just enjoying my vision of the Guild Master’s expression when, immediately after you complete their initiation ritual, you stare at your feet and sheepishly say, “Uh guys? I could really use a big favor from y’all.” I’ll forego my lecture about how CN does not mean surrendering to every impulse. I hardly believe that you were considering the roleplaying aspects of your alignment when you decided to steal the paper. In my experience, such players usually try to use their alignment as the excuse for ill-conceived decisions in the game. If your DM changed your alignment because of this single incident, he’s reacting a bit harsh, in my opinion. He ought to at least wait until you actually follow through with your master plan, since your conscience might get the better of you during the ride to town. Alignments should not be so mercurial as to fluctuate day-to-day.
Kelyme 01-13-05, 03:07 PM	This was a real post, the wyrm things was sarcasm. You are right in most of your assessments, except that like I said the party doesn't know for certain I stole it, and I have been a loner so they have the thought that I might have just went on ahead, not to mention the pc who had the papers only noticed they were gone a night after he got drunk, I can easily re think this and just join the party. I would argue the alignment thing, but I want to be evil unless my DM will let me be a CN assassin
ORC_Tuhteth 01-13-05, 05:28 PM	I think this thread has run its course. *click*