I can't seem to figure out what to do [Archive] - Wizards Community

I can't seem to figure out what to do [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
^Graff_EpsilonIX
09-08-05, 09:14 PM My DM always gives us problems that have obvious solutions. Only they aren't so obvious, we end up spending hours on each little puzzle and it's always something we overlooked. Any suggestions? Maybe compile a list of stuff that is obvious and should be checked every time?
Pryrates
09-08-05, 09:17 PM How about some examples of what your DM is throwing at you, it'll make helping you out a bit easier.
DM_Jeff
09-09-05, 11:20 AM Shamlessly borrowing from "the book of Tracy Hickman": spending hours on a puzzle is not fun D&D-ing. If after 10-15 minutes of good, hard work, if you can't figure out the puzzle and the DM is giving you no help at all (just enjoying you all squirming), shrug, announce the puzzle must be way to dastardly to solve, and walk away to find another adventure.

You'll be surprised how the next NPC you run into will have a clue to help you out. ;)

I've known a few DMs like this. I can't imagine why, either they revel in their knowing some secret the rest can't figure out, they're sadists, or they're running a module "as written" which says 'string the PCs long for a few hours, it's great fun!'

-DM Jeff
^Graff_EpsilonIX
09-09-05, 06:12 PM Well generally it involves some riddle. Last time we were in a room with no exits, and there was a chalk board in the center, what we had to do was write something in words that had to do with exiting. It took us a few hours to figure that out.
Abulafia
09-09-05, 06:41 PM Last time we were in a room with no exitsHow did you get in there?
GFC_Seracule
09-09-05, 06:44 PM they were probobly teleported or fell through a pit trap that for some reason closes up so they couldn't fly out.
Abulafia
09-09-05, 06:47 PM they were probobly teleported or fell through a pit trap that for some reason closes up so they couldn't fly out.I see.
Well, tell Gary I said Hi, and thanks for the great game.
Solik
09-09-05, 07:03 PM The question is, does your party enjoy these puzzles, or is it just frustrating everyone and slowing you down? It's the DM's job to run a good campaign, not to outwit you or make you pull your hair out to try to conquer his challenges.

If you're not having fun, speak with him about it. Puzzles just may not be the thing for this group. Also, the Dungeon Master's Guide II has good commentary on this topic specifically.
Jaime_Wolf
09-09-05, 07:16 PM Well you need to talk to him if you don't like puzzles like that. I like logical puzzles very much, but a chalkboard on which you must write something about leaving in a blank room is completely arbitrary. The way it sounds, it's like being stuck in an empty room and having to spin around three time, hum a song to which you haven't heard the tune, and then stomp your feet to get out. Tell him that if he's going to include puzzles he should think about how someone enterring the puzzle would go about trying to solve it.

On another note, did chalkboards exist in the medievil time period?
^Graff_EpsilonIX
09-09-05, 09:14 PM To answer a previous question, yes we were teleported in. I don't think the group likes these problems, but the DM does and everything always ends up that way anyway. No, chalkboards with chalk as we know it didn't exist. But this is a magical world.
ShadowDragon8685
09-09-05, 09:37 PM Why woulden't they have existed? In the most basic, simple form, a chalkboard is simple a piece of black slate and sticks of chalk, which is a naturally occuring substance that can be rather easily compacted into sticks.

And if the other players are getting frustrated, the next time he pulls out a frustrating puzzle, just ask everyone spontainously to vote with their feet.
^Graff_EpsilonIX
09-09-05, 10:35 PM Chalk as we know it is a pretty complicated bugger of a material, and our chemically treated happy chalkboards of doom are the same. I don't think they'd have the "modern" chalkboard, but yes, something close. Feet? That'll help.
feartheinvinceblehamster
09-09-05, 11:13 PM players handbook. chalk costs 1 cp a stick and a slate costs...1 gp? i dunno
Rhomphaia
09-10-05, 05:47 AM I have been the victim of some devious puzzles too, but one was particularly devious and rather fun.
The party was on a quest to get some answers to recover the rod, scepter and crown of good from a dragon to give to a king so he can defeat the armies of an evil kingdom that is invading.
We get to the dragon and he puts us through a test. He teleports us into a room with a door, and the only way to open the door is to place a small glass globe into a hole in the door just large enough to fit it. In the center of the room was a steel pipe imbedded into the floor that rose about two feet from the floor. The pipe was hollow and a tiny bit larger (internal diameter) than the globe, which was sitting at the bottom of the pipe (about floor level).
Also in the room was a 10 foot length of silk cord, a silver hammer, and three lengths of bamboo, 1 foot, 2 feet and 3 feet long respectively. Our challenge was to get this small, hollow, very fragile glass ball out of the pipe and into the hole in the door. I should also note that other than our clothes, we were stripped of our gear and supplies.
After a while (about three hours) of not figuring it out (but still having fun not figuring it out) one of the players asks about supplies. Do we have any food or water. The DM informs us that we can go awhile without food and that we have had plenty to drink that day.
This caused a rush of characters trying to crowd around the pipe to urinate in it to cause this globe to float to the top. It worked and one of the PCs took it and put it in the door, freeing us and passing the test.

We never found out if he washed his hands...
ShadowDragon8685
09-10-05, 05:58 AM I assume the globe was hollow and filled with air? Hehehehe.
Jayr
09-10-05, 05:30 PM Well, the classic solution to that puzzle is:
1. Break the chalk in half.
2. Put the two halves together.
3. You now should see a whole.
4. Walk out the hole.
:D
^Graff_EpsilonIX
09-10-05, 07:34 PM Tried that one, didn't work. My DM just set us in a room with a ceiling with spikes and reverse gravity on the floor. We have to get accross the room. The spikes are poisoned with 2nd ed. type F poison, at DC 30.
MikeJW
09-10-05, 10:03 PM You should talk to your DM. After 10 minutes if I see my party struggling and getting frustrated over a puzzle they have to solve to advance then guess what? Whatever they try next works. Its a poor design decision in an adventure, like relying on a ssingle spot check to find a hidden door the PCs need.
ramzafft1
09-10-05, 10:58 PM I have to go with MikeJW on this one. If you can't figure it out after 10-15 minutes, the DM is wasting precious game time and should either:
a. Let your answer work or
b. Let you take a bloody 20
Rhomphaia
09-11-05, 04:13 AM Unless of course you in a session for the long haul, and the group is having fun trying to figure it out.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
^Graff_EpsilonIX 09-08-05, 09:14 PM	My DM always gives us problems that have obvious solutions. Only they aren't so obvious, we end up spending hours on each little puzzle and it's always something we overlooked. Any suggestions? Maybe compile a list of stuff that is obvious and should be checked every time?
Pryrates 09-08-05, 09:17 PM	How about some examples of what your DM is throwing at you, it'll make helping you out a bit easier.
DM_Jeff 09-09-05, 11:20 AM	Shamlessly borrowing from "the book of Tracy Hickman": spending hours on a puzzle is not fun D&D-ing. If after 10-15 minutes of good, hard work, if you can't figure out the puzzle and the DM is giving you no help at all (just enjoying you all squirming), shrug, announce the puzzle must be way to dastardly to solve, and walk away to find another adventure. You'll be surprised how the next NPC you run into will have a clue to help you out. ;) I've known a few DMs like this. I can't imagine why, either they revel in their knowing some secret the rest can't figure out, they're sadists, or they're running a module "as written" which says 'string the PCs long for a few hours, it's great fun!' -DM Jeff
^Graff_EpsilonIX 09-09-05, 06:12 PM	Well generally it involves some riddle. Last time we were in a room with no exits, and there was a chalk board in the center, what we had to do was write something in words that had to do with exiting. It took us a few hours to figure that out.
Abulafia 09-09-05, 06:41 PM	Last time we were in a room with no exitsHow did you get in there?
GFC_Seracule 09-09-05, 06:44 PM	they were probobly teleported or fell through a pit trap that for some reason closes up so they couldn't fly out.
Abulafia 09-09-05, 06:47 PM	they were probobly teleported or fell through a pit trap that for some reason closes up so they couldn't fly out.I see. Well, tell Gary I said Hi, and thanks for the great game.
Solik 09-09-05, 07:03 PM	The question is, does your party enjoy these puzzles, or is it just frustrating everyone and slowing you down? It's the DM's job to run a good campaign, not to outwit you or make you pull your hair out to try to conquer his challenges. If you're not having fun, speak with him about it. Puzzles just may not be the thing for this group. Also, the Dungeon Master's Guide II has good commentary on this topic specifically.
Jaime_Wolf 09-09-05, 07:16 PM	Well you need to talk to him if you don't like puzzles like that. I like logical puzzles very much, but a chalkboard on which you must write something about leaving in a blank room is completely arbitrary. The way it sounds, it's like being stuck in an empty room and having to spin around three time, hum a song to which you haven't heard the tune, and then stomp your feet to get out. Tell him that if he's going to include puzzles he should think about how someone enterring the puzzle would go about trying to solve it. On another note, did chalkboards exist in the medievil time period?
^Graff_EpsilonIX 09-09-05, 09:14 PM	To answer a previous question, yes we were teleported in. I don't think the group likes these problems, but the DM does and everything always ends up that way anyway. No, chalkboards with chalk as we know it didn't exist. But this is a magical world.
ShadowDragon8685 09-09-05, 09:37 PM	Why woulden't they have existed? In the most basic, simple form, a chalkboard is simple a piece of black slate and sticks of chalk, which is a naturally occuring substance that can be rather easily compacted into sticks. And if the other players are getting frustrated, the next time he pulls out a frustrating puzzle, just ask everyone spontainously to vote with their feet.
^Graff_EpsilonIX 09-09-05, 10:35 PM	Chalk as we know it is a pretty complicated bugger of a material, and our chemically treated happy chalkboards of doom are the same. I don't think they'd have the "modern" chalkboard, but yes, something close. Feet? That'll help.
feartheinvinceblehamster 09-09-05, 11:13 PM	players handbook. chalk costs 1 cp a stick and a slate costs...1 gp? i dunno
Rhomphaia 09-10-05, 05:47 AM	I have been the victim of some devious puzzles too, but one was particularly devious and rather fun. The party was on a quest to get some answers to recover the rod, scepter and crown of good from a dragon to give to a king so he can defeat the armies of an evil kingdom that is invading. We get to the dragon and he puts us through a test. He teleports us into a room with a door, and the only way to open the door is to place a small glass globe into a hole in the door just large enough to fit it. In the center of the room was a steel pipe imbedded into the floor that rose about two feet from the floor. The pipe was hollow and a tiny bit larger (internal diameter) than the globe, which was sitting at the bottom of the pipe (about floor level). Also in the room was a 10 foot length of silk cord, a silver hammer, and three lengths of bamboo, 1 foot, 2 feet and 3 feet long respectively. Our challenge was to get this small, hollow, very fragile glass ball out of the pipe and into the hole in the door. I should also note that other than our clothes, we were stripped of our gear and supplies. After a while (about three hours) of not figuring it out (but still having fun not figuring it out) one of the players asks about supplies. Do we have any food or water. The DM informs us that we can go awhile without food and that we have had plenty to drink that day. This caused a rush of characters trying to crowd around the pipe to urinate in it to cause this globe to float to the top. It worked and one of the PCs took it and put it in the door, freeing us and passing the test. We never found out if he washed his hands...
ShadowDragon8685 09-10-05, 05:58 AM	I assume the globe was hollow and filled with air? Hehehehe.
Jayr 09-10-05, 05:30 PM	Well, the classic solution to that puzzle is: 1. Break the chalk in half. 2. Put the two halves together. 3. You now should see a whole. 4. Walk out the hole. :D
^Graff_EpsilonIX 09-10-05, 07:34 PM	Tried that one, didn't work. My DM just set us in a room with a ceiling with spikes and reverse gravity on the floor. We have to get accross the room. The spikes are poisoned with 2nd ed. type F poison, at DC 30.
MikeJW 09-10-05, 10:03 PM	You should talk to your DM. After 10 minutes if I see my party struggling and getting frustrated over a puzzle they have to solve to advance then guess what? Whatever they try next works. Its a poor design decision in an adventure, like relying on a ssingle spot check to find a hidden door the PCs need.
ramzafft1 09-10-05, 10:58 PM	I have to go with MikeJW on this one. If you can't figure it out after 10-15 minutes, the DM is wasting precious game time and should either: a. Let your answer work or b. Let you take a bloody 20
Rhomphaia 09-11-05, 04:13 AM	Unless of course you in a session for the long haul, and the group is having fun trying to figure it out.