I feel like an idiot [Archive] - Wizards Community

I feel like an idiot [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
frizbog
09-03-06, 03:54 PM I used to play AD&D when I was a teen. Now at nearly 40 I want to play with my two boys, so I bought the 3.5 versions of the books, and it's changed so much I hardly recognize it. It's way more complicated than I remember it. There's so many new attributes and things about characters now I don't even think I can make a character properly (initiative modifiers? flat-footed AC? grapple modifiers?)

The player's handbook DESPERATELY needs a simple, step-by-step set of instructions on how to make a character. All the information is there, obviously, but they don't put it together in any order, nor do they give you any sort of checklist to let you know if you've done everything you need to do. If it had a list like 1) roll for abilities; 2) pick a race and adjust abilities accordingly; 3) pick a class; 4) select skills; 5) select feats; 6) select spells; 7) select equipment; .... and each one were broken down accordingly as well, I'd feel like I had a better handle on it.

Ok, I'm done venting....
a_psh
09-03-06, 04:01 PM Err, try the PHB, page 6?
frizbog
09-03-06, 04:25 PM Well, now I really feel like an idiot!!!

Thanks for the (obvious) pointer! I don't exactly know how I overlooked that page (except for the aforementioned 'idiot' bit)... :rolleyes:
Caliborn
09-03-06, 04:34 PM Have fun! It's not hard at all when you get used to the rules. For the most part anyway.
rogue_lettuce
09-03-06, 04:34 PM This should really go into the halls of "best posts" on the board, haha.
darkness ninja of light
09-03-06, 04:53 PM Hahaha! That's great.

The rules look really intimidating at first, but once you try it out, you will find they're very easy.
a_psh
09-03-06, 05:36 PM Well, now I really feel like an idiot!!!

Thanks for the (obvious) pointer! I don't exactly know how I overlooked that page (except for the aforementioned 'idiot' bit)... :rolleyes:You probably overlooked it because it was hidden in a section called "introduction" and every book you've ever read has probably taught you that there's nothing of value in introductions. I know it surprised me when I realized that stuff was actually explained in the "introduction". ;)

(Just in case it's not clear since this is the Internet: I'm not making fun of you. I'm complaining about how absolutely vapid and meaningless most "introductions" are.)
Taeldrin Laesrash
09-03-06, 06:56 PM As complicated as it looks, you'll grow into 3E. I find that it's a bit less cluttered than the other editions. That's my opinion, though.
Seldriss
09-03-06, 07:18 PM If you feel that way, don't worry, you're not alone.
I reunited my old fellow gamers two years ago to start a new campaign with D&D 3.5.
Most of them used to play for more than 15 years, but when they heard about Fortitude, Reflex, Will, Flat-foot and cross-class skills, they were confused as goblins in front of a spellbook. Should I add that they still are, sometimes ? (sigh)

If you want to start with a lighter version of D&D 3rd Edition, you can try the D&D Basic Game box, which helps new DMs and/or players to make their first steps into adventure.
Only 4 basic classes are represented (cleric, fighter, rogue and sorcerer), with a limited amount of skills, feats and spells, to avoid confusion.
Combat and magic rules are minimal.
And the classic monsters of the game are there too, with simplified stats.

Basically, this box set can be used to create and play characters from 1st to 3rd level.
At that point, they should be ready for the real thing, and use the Player's Handbook.

I strongly recommend this box to all newcomers to the game...

Good luck and good game :)
Ashok_Lal
09-03-06, 08:52 PM Have fun! It's not hard at all when you get used to the rules. For the most part anyway.

Quote: darkness ninja of light
The rules look really intimidating at first, but once you try it out, you will find they're very easy.

If they are so easy why do the forums exist? Mostly just a platform to disagree on the rules.
darkness ninja of light
09-03-06, 09:05 PM If they are so easy why do the forums exist? Mostly just a platform to disagree on the rules.
Where did this come from? Oh well. It's a roleplaying system that leaves things open-ended for the player's sake. No matter what system you're using, you're going to get rules disagreements and whatnot. There is no perfect rules system.

The point is that the system is easy to pick up and understand.

Though I should mention that it is a LOT easier to learn by playing with a group that knows the rules.
Piggyfreak6
09-03-06, 10:24 PM don't worry, when I bought the Players Handbook, I felt lost too. But eventually I found the page, and I got used to the rules. We all went though it, and obviously, we all liked the game or else we wouldn't be on these boards.
Salla
09-03-06, 10:51 PM Though I should mention that it is a LOT easier to learn by playing with a group that knows the rules.

Sadly, most of the gamers I've met learned by playing with groups who did NOT know the rules.

I point to a game a month ago where a 4th level fighter was handed +3 Plate Mail and a +2 sword with a variable Energy Burst.
Birrak
09-03-06, 10:57 PM If they are so easy why do the forums exist? Mostly just a platform to disagree on the rules.

So why do YOU visit the forums??
LCD2YOU
09-03-06, 11:24 PM So why do YOU visit the forums??I visit to get into arguements and re-affirm my basic hatred of all of you.

Except save for WizO Cat. And Cambric. Wrecan's pretty much ok. Vaal? Well Vaal's fine, a little brittle maybe. Sulaco's growing on me too. Always thought Sir Ian Stark was a stand up guy. Horatio Hornblower seems to be a straight shooter as well. WizO the Hutt seems to be ok, for a Wiz.

Ah heck, I come here just to re-affirm that I know how to use the internet.
Inigo_Montoya
09-04-06, 01:16 PM I used to play AD&D when I was a teen. Now at nearly 40 I want to play with my two boys, so I bought the 3.5 versions of the books, and it's changed so much I hardly recognize it. It's way more complicated than I remember it. There's so many new attributes and things about characters now I don't even think I can make a character properly (initiative modifiers? flat-footed AC? grapple modifiers?)

The player's handbook DESPERATELY needs a simple, step-by-step set of instructions on how to make a character. All the information is there, obviously, but they don't put it together in any order, nor do they give you any sort of checklist to let you know if you've done everything you need to do. If it had a list like 1) roll for abilities; 2) pick a race and adjust abilities accordingly; 3) pick a class; 4) select skills; 5) select feats; 6) select spells; 7) select equipment; .... and each one were broken down accordingly as well, I'd feel like I had a better handle on it.

Ok, I'm done venting....It's a dramtically different game than 1st or 2nd Edition. I'm playing in my first 3.5 game right now, and it's a learning experience for sure. The 5 step rule, no facings, attacks of opportunity etc. etc. are going to take some getting used to.
Tzor
09-04-06, 03:43 PM If you feel like an idiot, I think that there's a D&D for dummies out there.

I've never read it, but I've heard it's relatively good.
Ryusage
09-04-06, 03:50 PM Just read through the entire PHB... (dont bother with Chapter 11:Spells)
It helps a lot to be playing with people who already know the rules too.
TheMeanOne
09-04-06, 04:04 PM I learned playing 3.x, but we're starting up a 2nd ed game and I feel the same. It seems so complicated - why does nothing use the same system? Why do some things count up while others count down? What the heck is THAC0?

I guess it's just hard to get used to new things.
CéPé
09-04-06, 05:03 PM If you feel like an idiot, I think that there's a D&D for dummies out there.

I've never read it, but I've heard it's relatively good.

The book is actually EXCELLENT. The same authors wrote a "Dungeon Master for Dummies" too and it's really good too (but you should start with the first one).
Fatalis_902
09-04-06, 05:26 PM frizbog, don't worry. There is a player in a campaign I'm in, and he was introduced to DnD 5 years ago, been playing 3rd and 3.5 for two years. He still doesn't know what he's doing.
draco1119
09-04-06, 05:27 PM Sadly, most of the gamers I've met learned by playing with groups who did NOT know the rules.

I point to a game a month ago where a 4th level fighter was handed +3 Plate Mail and a +2 sword with a variable Energy Burst.
Ugh. I just got a +1 Bastard Sword that does an extra 1d4 force damage last night. And +2 FullPlate of Gender-Bending. :rolleyes:
And I'm only 4th level. Of course, if it wasn't for that darned illithid, I'd be a solid level 5...
xver
09-05-06, 01:11 AM While the PHB is pretty good, for a complete step by step list of easy to follow instructions, see http://community.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8189718. It's got all the info you need and is hillariously funny as well.
Ldyparadox99
09-05-06, 03:51 AM I highly recomment "D&D for dummies." I bought it when it first came out and it got passed around the whole gaming group, including the GM. Initially when he was looking through it we'd here comments like, "wow, didn't know this rule existed..."

So even seasoned players can benifit from it, and I personally think it was well written in a humorous way.
Archangel62
09-05-06, 04:14 AM Haven't gotten it yet but I am admittedly somewhat tempted to try it. The for Dummies books could be pretty useful, that and they also can help new players and older ones alike. Part of what I notice is that some groups have trouble with new players because they try to bring the person in and tend to want them to play robotically, which can lead to problems.
starfire311
09-05-06, 09:53 AM I learned playing 3.x, but we're starting up a 2nd ed game and I feel the same. It seems so complicated - why does nothing use the same system? Why do some things count up while others count down? What the heck is THAC0?

I guess it's just hard to get used to new things.

oh dear god, I still have all my basic, 1st ed and 2nd ed books sitting on my book case, looks kinda impressive, having the Immortals box near 1st ed PHB near spell jammer monsterous compendium next to the comple Ninja and 1st ed OA. I flip through them occasionally, and grow nostaligic, but then I imagine playing in a game now, and just can't understand why I would waste my time playing such an obsolete system.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
frizbog 09-03-06, 03:54 PM	I used to play AD&D when I was a teen. Now at nearly 40 I want to play with my two boys, so I bought the 3.5 versions of the books, and it's changed so much I hardly recognize it. It's way more complicated than I remember it. There's so many new attributes and things about characters now I don't even think I can make a character properly (initiative modifiers? flat-footed AC? grapple modifiers?) The player's handbook DESPERATELY needs a simple, step-by-step set of instructions on how to make a character. All the information is there, obviously, but they don't put it together in any order, nor do they give you any sort of checklist to let you know if you've done everything you need to do. If it had a list like 1) roll for abilities; 2) pick a race and adjust abilities accordingly; 3) pick a class; 4) select skills; 5) select feats; 6) select spells; 7) select equipment; .... and each one were broken down accordingly as well, I'd feel like I had a better handle on it. Ok, I'm done venting....
a_psh 09-03-06, 04:01 PM	Err, try the PHB, page 6?
frizbog 09-03-06, 04:25 PM	Well, now I really feel like an idiot!!! Thanks for the (obvious) pointer! I don't exactly know how I overlooked that page (except for the aforementioned 'idiot' bit)... :rolleyes:
Caliborn 09-03-06, 04:34 PM	Have fun! It's not hard at all when you get used to the rules. For the most part anyway.
rogue_lettuce 09-03-06, 04:34 PM	This should really go into the halls of "best posts" on the board, haha.
darkness ninja of light 09-03-06, 04:53 PM	Hahaha! That's great. The rules look really intimidating at first, but once you try it out, you will find they're very easy.
a_psh 09-03-06, 05:36 PM	Well, now I really feel like an idiot!!! Thanks for the (obvious) pointer! I don't exactly know how I overlooked that page (except for the aforementioned 'idiot' bit)... :rolleyes:You probably overlooked it because it was hidden in a section called "introduction" and every book you've ever read has probably taught you that there's nothing of value in introductions. I know it surprised me when I realized that stuff was actually explained in the "introduction". ;) (Just in case it's not clear since this is the Internet: I'm not making fun of you. I'm complaining about how absolutely vapid and meaningless most "introductions" are.)
Taeldrin Laesrash 09-03-06, 06:56 PM	As complicated as it looks, you'll grow into 3E. I find that it's a bit less cluttered than the other editions. That's my opinion, though.
Seldriss 09-03-06, 07:18 PM	If you feel that way, don't worry, you're not alone. I reunited my old fellow gamers two years ago to start a new campaign with D&D 3.5. Most of them used to play for more than 15 years, but when they heard about Fortitude, Reflex, Will, Flat-foot and cross-class skills, they were confused as goblins in front of a spellbook. Should I add that they still are, sometimes ? (sigh) If you want to start with a lighter version of D&D 3rd Edition, you can try the D&D Basic Game box, which helps new DMs and/or players to make their first steps into adventure. Only 4 basic classes are represented (cleric, fighter, rogue and sorcerer), with a limited amount of skills, feats and spells, to avoid confusion. Combat and magic rules are minimal. And the classic monsters of the game are there too, with simplified stats. Basically, this box set can be used to create and play characters from 1st to 3rd level. At that point, they should be ready for the real thing, and use the Player's Handbook. I strongly recommend this box to all newcomers to the game... Good luck and good game :)
Ashok_Lal 09-03-06, 08:52 PM	Have fun! It's not hard at all when you get used to the rules. For the most part anyway. Quote: darkness ninja of light The rules look really intimidating at first, but once you try it out, you will find they're very easy. If they are so easy why do the forums exist? Mostly just a platform to disagree on the rules.
darkness ninja of light 09-03-06, 09:05 PM	If they are so easy why do the forums exist? Mostly just a platform to disagree on the rules. Where did this come from? Oh well. It's a roleplaying system that leaves things open-ended for the player's sake. No matter what system you're using, you're going to get rules disagreements and whatnot. There is no perfect rules system. The point is that the system is easy to pick up and understand. Though I should mention that it is a LOT easier to learn by playing with a group that knows the rules.
Piggyfreak6 09-03-06, 10:24 PM	don't worry, when I bought the Players Handbook, I felt lost too. But eventually I found the page, and I got used to the rules. We all went though it, and obviously, we all liked the game or else we wouldn't be on these boards.
Salla 09-03-06, 10:51 PM	Though I should mention that it is a LOT easier to learn by playing with a group that knows the rules. Sadly, most of the gamers I've met learned by playing with groups who did NOT know the rules. I point to a game a month ago where a 4th level fighter was handed +3 Plate Mail and a +2 sword with a variable Energy Burst.
Birrak 09-03-06, 10:57 PM	If they are so easy why do the forums exist? Mostly just a platform to disagree on the rules. So why do YOU visit the forums??
LCD2YOU 09-03-06, 11:24 PM	So why do YOU visit the forums??I visit to get into arguements and re-affirm my basic hatred of all of you. Except save for WizO Cat. And Cambric. Wrecan's pretty much ok. Vaal? Well Vaal's fine, a little brittle maybe. Sulaco's growing on me too. Always thought Sir Ian Stark was a stand up guy. Horatio Hornblower seems to be a straight shooter as well. WizO the Hutt seems to be ok, for a Wiz. Ah heck, I come here just to re-affirm that I know how to use the internet.
Inigo_Montoya 09-04-06, 01:16 PM	I used to play AD&D when I was a teen. Now at nearly 40 I want to play with my two boys, so I bought the 3.5 versions of the books, and it's changed so much I hardly recognize it. It's way more complicated than I remember it. There's so many new attributes and things about characters now I don't even think I can make a character properly (initiative modifiers? flat-footed AC? grapple modifiers?) The player's handbook DESPERATELY needs a simple, step-by-step set of instructions on how to make a character. All the information is there, obviously, but they don't put it together in any order, nor do they give you any sort of checklist to let you know if you've done everything you need to do. If it had a list like 1) roll for abilities; 2) pick a race and adjust abilities accordingly; 3) pick a class; 4) select skills; 5) select feats; 6) select spells; 7) select equipment; .... and each one were broken down accordingly as well, I'd feel like I had a better handle on it. Ok, I'm done venting....It's a dramtically different game than 1st or 2nd Edition. I'm playing in my first 3.5 game right now, and it's a learning experience for sure. The 5 step rule, no facings, attacks of opportunity etc. etc. are going to take some getting used to.
Tzor 09-04-06, 03:43 PM	If you feel like an idiot, I think that there's a D&D for dummies out there. I've never read it, but I've heard it's relatively good.
Ryusage 09-04-06, 03:50 PM	Just read through the entire PHB... (dont bother with Chapter 11:Spells) It helps a lot to be playing with people who already know the rules too.
TheMeanOne 09-04-06, 04:04 PM	I learned playing 3.x, but we're starting up a 2nd ed game and I feel the same. It seems so complicated - why does nothing use the same system? Why do some things count up while others count down? What the heck is THAC0? I guess it's just hard to get used to new things.
CéPé 09-04-06, 05:03 PM	If you feel like an idiot, I think that there's a D&D for dummies out there. I've never read it, but I've heard it's relatively good. The book is actually EXCELLENT. The same authors wrote a "Dungeon Master for Dummies" too and it's really good too (but you should start with the first one).
Fatalis_902 09-04-06, 05:26 PM	frizbog, don't worry. There is a player in a campaign I'm in, and he was introduced to DnD 5 years ago, been playing 3rd and 3.5 for two years. He still doesn't know what he's doing.
draco1119 09-04-06, 05:27 PM	Sadly, most of the gamers I've met learned by playing with groups who did NOT know the rules. I point to a game a month ago where a 4th level fighter was handed +3 Plate Mail and a +2 sword with a variable Energy Burst. Ugh. I just got a +1 Bastard Sword that does an extra 1d4 force damage last night. And +2 FullPlate of Gender-Bending. :rolleyes: And I'm only 4th level. Of course, if it wasn't for that darned illithid, I'd be a solid level 5...
xver 09-05-06, 01:11 AM	While the PHB is pretty good, for a complete step by step list of easy to follow instructions, see http://community.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8189718. It's got all the info you need and is hillariously funny as well.
Ldyparadox99 09-05-06, 03:51 AM	I highly recomment "D&D for dummies." I bought it when it first came out and it got passed around the whole gaming group, including the GM. Initially when he was looking through it we'd here comments like, "wow, didn't know this rule existed..." So even seasoned players can benifit from it, and I personally think it was well written in a humorous way.
Archangel62 09-05-06, 04:14 AM	Haven't gotten it yet but I am admittedly somewhat tempted to try it. The for Dummies books could be pretty useful, that and they also can help new players and older ones alike. Part of what I notice is that some groups have trouble with new players because they try to bring the person in and tend to want them to play robotically, which can lead to problems.
starfire311 09-05-06, 09:53 AM	I learned playing 3.x, but we're starting up a 2nd ed game and I feel the same. It seems so complicated - why does nothing use the same system? Why do some things count up while others count down? What the heck is THAC0? I guess it's just hard to get used to new things. oh dear god, I still have all my basic, 1st ed and 2nd ed books sitting on my book case, looks kinda impressive, having the Immortals box near 1st ed PHB near spell jammer monsterous compendium next to the comple Ninja and 1st ed OA. I flip through them occasionally, and grow nostaligic, but then I imagine playing in a game now, and just can't understand why I would waste my time playing such an obsolete system.