Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Levism84 01-06-04, 02:34 PM	Right now I have had it with my current character because he is constantly being used by the other party members, and he doesn't like it. Frankly, neither do I. He is a LV 9 Arcane Engineer aka "taxi" and his main purpose in the game we are playing is to serve as the transport for the leaders of the party between their developing towns and a) the warlord who gave them the land and the towns, b) the temple where they get healed up, and c) the highly powerful wizard who they buy spell scrolls from- of which I have to read for them. At first it was great because I felt really useful and they would pay me gold for my troubles, but I feel like less a part of the team. So I am considering making my character go join the temple to live out a life a service to others who are devoted to more idealistic concepts than making a kick-butt town. But now I am in a fix. If I get a new character, it will have to be a LV 8, and I need to pick one that can help fill in some of the gap that my spell caster will leave without falling into the same trap of being the teleporter of the group. I recently got Exalted Deeds, and was thinking of making an ascetic character (one that has no earthly goods except the clothing on his back and a simple weapon). The group I am currently playing with is as follows: LV 10 Elf Female Druid LV 12 Human Male Rogue/Shadow Dancer LV 14 Human Male Fighter LV 13 Halfling Male Paladin LV 9 Human Male Arcane Engineer (Wizard) Since the Arcane Engineer is out, what should I try and go for that would help balance things out in my group. I was thinking either an Ascetic Monk, an Ascetic Cleric, or maybe even an Ascetic Sorcerer. Any guidance would be appreciated.
Harmor 01-06-04, 02:57 PM	I think if you ask your DM to make your engineer an NPC and make a new character to join the party he would let you. Remember, we're here to have fun and if you're not having fun playing your character then the DM should have no qualms allowing you to make a new character.
Leagle 01-06-04, 04:57 PM	I suggest a sorceror. Or a mage who specialises in divination and prohibits conjuration.
cthulhu42 01-06-04, 05:12 PM	No offense, but if your letting your character be used by other characters its your own fault. Where are your characters ambitions and motivations? Doesn't he have any of his own adgendas to persue? My sugestion: Next time the other PC's ding you for a teleport tell em sorry, but I've got my own irons in the fire and I don't have time to be your personal transporter room. Then: Take over the world!
Vanigo 01-06-04, 09:39 PM	Looks like your main problem is that you're at a significantly lower level than the rest of the party. Making an even lower-level character isn't likely to help. You could go from being a teleporter to being a buff-monkey or a diviner, if you want, but, that much lower than everyone else, those are really your only mechanics-based options. You aren't going to do much but buff in combat, and you aren't going to be good for anything but utility spells (like teleport) out of combat. Talk to your DM about making a new character at 10th or 11th level. You'd still be below the party average, but you'd be high enough to do some good. Alternately, if you're a good enough role-player to handle it, you could make a bard or rogue specialized in dealing with people. If the party is building a town, they're going to need to deal with people a lot. By 8th level, you should have enough skill points and whatnot to make a very effective diplomat and administrator, if you, the player, know how to use such a character. You won't be able to do jack in combat, but you will be vital to the party's goals.
Levism84 01-07-04, 12:32 AM	I was thinking of either going the selfish root, and becoming a relatively self involved sorcerer, or- because we have a temple nearby- a bit ecentric ascetic/pacifist cleric sort of based off of Stormy from SeaLab 2021 when he was getting all high on stimutacs: "Should my physical self feel composed of millions of minute bubbles? Nay Captain, you are not for Earthly goods and pleasures. Cast off this taint, and become taintless. Marduk, the Sun God that dwells inside me. Marduk; son fo Ea; slayer of Tiamat. Marduk desires not the barren wasteland of you desicated visera." I don't know, might be fun. Plus our party is without a healer. Oh, and besides my current role of teleporting to and fro, my character also gets to cast iron wall every other day or so, so that the village can have iron and what not. Oh, and my character set up a shop for which to hand out potions he buys fromt he healers at the temple. My character could go join the nunnery...er... the priestery.
gleep 01-07-04, 12:39 AM	Or you should explain to your DM that as your character has become a vital part of the plans for the other characters' to amass more wealth and prestige (the town) that your character therefor should be receiving buttloads of experience. Afterall, your character is meeting and exceeding challanges left and right... The other characters are using the skills and abilities of your character instead of their own to acheive many of the tasks they have before them. Heck, at the rate they've been going, shouldn't be long before your PC is the highest level one. Then you take over the world. :D --gleep
E-Vile 01-07-04, 11:31 AM	Originally posted by Levism84 I don't know, might be fun. Plus our party is without a healer. You realise that you'll be a heal-monkey instead of a transport monkey then, don't you? Personally I'd keep the class. You could either focus on evocations, and therefore boosting your party's magic (almost all of your partymembers are combatants, do not become a fighter or suchlike, there is only so much room in the frontlines. Or you could ask your DM if you could design a way for teleportation spells to be used offensively (like teleporting random stuff in the opponent's intestines). Anyway arcane casters are your best bet. They're less prone to be used and can deal a fair amount of damage even to high CR beasties.
Will Brandiman 01-07-04, 11:38 AM	Originally posted by Levism84 LV 10 Elf Female Druid LV 12 Human Male Rogue/Shadow Dancer LV 14 Human Male Fighter LV 13 Halfling Male Paladin LV 9 Human Male Arcane Engineer (Wizard) Excluding your own character, the rest of the party averages just over 12th level. So how come you are so far behind the others in the first place? Making an 8th level character that will even survive in this party is going to be a challenge. Making one that is capable of contributing and will still be fun to play is going to be extremely diffificult! Good luck!!
Levism84 01-07-04, 03:58 PM	The reason I am so far behind is in part because I am new to the game and because, in the past, the party has been very poor at protecting me. Example: My first character was a fighter/bard half-elf LV 10. I had a bit of melee and a bit of magic to work with, so I could get a better understanding of both. During one of my first big encounters (an all out war between two armies of which we were a part of the smaller one) we held off the big army with a mix of magic (we also had a LV 15 lesbian sorceress and a LV 15 druid) and all out melee. I was drafted for the melee part and I was nearly slaughtered. At the next meeting we had, I was sound asleep in a tent when we were ambushed and my tent was set on fire. I ran out and bumped right into the main magic wielding boss ladie, and was once again nearly slaughtered. Finally, during a night raid on an enemy camp one of the other character's was slain and asked me to get his body out of their, because he didnt want it to fall into the hands of the enemy, so I go in to get him (one whirlwind attack from a huge duel sword wielding orc) and I died. So I start a new character at LV 9, this guy who now gets to teleport people to and frow. Also, during an attack by two razor boars I fragged one with fireball and almost took out the other one single handed because I used fly so they couldnt get me, and one of the other members of the party was all :censored::censored::censored::censored: :censored:y because he wanted to see what his new +5 rapier with keen/vorpel/brilliant energy could do. No problem guys.... But the group was getting bigger (we had a couple more people join after I came in) so the DM decided to break it up into two smaller groups, and the one I am in is with the fighter, the paladine, the shadow dancer, and the druid who just joined. But that is why my level is so much lower than theirs, because I died and I havent been playing as long as they have. Hope that answers you question.
eudas 01-07-04, 05:00 PM	1. stop being their teleport monkey. just because you're new doesn't mean they should use your character as an ancillary set of powers for their characters. 2. the reason your fighter/bard half elf got wasted last time is because fighter/bard has, shall we say, bad (stupid censor) BAB and HP compared to a pure fighter. you might've lived if you were a pure fighter, and you wouldn't've been recruited for front line duty if you were a pure bard. again, they were just using you like a sucker. 3. good work on the boars. don't worry about the others not getting to try out their stupid rapier... the bunch of cheese monkeys. eudas
Vanigo 01-07-04, 05:22 PM	Well, if that's how it's going, your main problem may be that your DM is inexperienced. A keen vorpal brilliant energy rapier +5 is an epic item, and definetly not suitable for a 14th level character. Something like that belongs in the hands of a 30th level character. He's allowing a drastic level disparity in the party, which is certain to cause some party members to feel marginalized. However, all is not lost for you. Do not create a new character; that would just put you further behind. You are playing a wizard, and, more than almost any other class, a well-played wizard can be horrendously effective. Using fly to stay out of your enemy's reach is only the beginning. What you need to do is become an expert at using wizards. Learn the wizard's spell list forwards and backwards. Sideways is optional, but reccomended. Figure out horrendously effective combos. For example, a combination of wall of stone and cloudkill will kill almost anything that's susceptible to poison. Pressure your DM for some potent items; something like a headband of intellect +6 that also gives you +2 to all save DCs wouldn't be out of line. Point out that such an item is far less powerful than the aforementioned rapier. If he won't customize items that far, ask for a headband of intellect +10, which is better for you, but still much less potent than the rapier. A metamagic rod of quickening is also extraordinarily potent. Alter your spell selection to be more effective in combat. Contrary to what you might expect, your best bet against most creatures is not damage spells, but those that harm them inderectly. Cripple your enemies with bestow curse and enervate. Shape the battlefield in your favor with wall of stone. Keep them busy with Evard's black tentacles and web. Enhance your allies with haste, among other spells. Do not blast your enemies with fireballs, unless there are a lot of weak monsters clustered together. Instead, trap them in an Otiluke's resilient sphere with a flaming sphere and let them cook slowly. Better yet, engage in spell research. A ray spell that deals ability damage is more effective than you'd think - 20 points of wisdom damage will leave almost anything helpless for days. 20 points of constitution damage will leave almost anything dead. A spell that your enemy doesn't know how to guard against is always preferable to one he does.
Levism84 01-07-04, 06:08 PM	On the rapier, I was wondering about that myself, but the story behind it- the person who owned it before is the warlord for which we just got the land from. He is a very generous person and he himself just got an even better weapon made, and since he has no use for it, he gave it as a present for the resident hero of our party (the LV 14 male fighter) who apparently survived a battle that the DM was sure he was dead in. But as far as maxing out my wizard, he is an arcane engineer (a core class taken from one of the DM's books he let me look at because he felt sorry about my first character) and so part of his bit is he grafts wonderous and magical items to his body. So far all I have done is grafter boots of springing and stridding to his feet, taking up that slot. I could graft a headband of intellect into my skull, but hey, i dont know if i am ready for that yet. Also, I have knowledge of engineering up the whazoo right now, so I am even better skilled than the village's current blacksmith in the arts of engineering. and my craft blacksmithing is up there too with weapon smithing and armor smithing. Luckily for me, the other players arent too keen to that right now, otherwise I might have to spend experience making them stuff... if they payed me enough. I know that you are supposed to make a character, and not change him/her/it because it disrupts the flow of the game. However I have had time now to look at many different books, and expand my knowledge of the D&D world. When I made both of my characters I had a players handbook, a monster manual, and a DM guide. The basics needed to make a character. But I kept picking up a book here and there, and now i have the complete warrior, exalted deeds, monster manual II, Oriental Adventures, and savage species. From these I have found things that i like, and things that i dont. I think I have founds some characters that coud reflect different parts of my personality that would make the game a little more enjoyable for me at least, if not for the rest of the party. That is why I want to scrap my current character, if not get back at the other PCs a bit by unleashing the fury of the rod of wonder upon them and force them to slay me. Who knows, could add for a bit of flavor. "The teleporter guy is going postal!" But I am really interested in the book exalted deeds. The idea of playing a goodie goodie in the current campaign is very attractive. I know I could always turn my current character into a goodie goodie ascetic, but than i couldnt graft any more magical item to me, so my class would be even more worthless, and what all i have done so far would be wasted anyway. Just my thoughts.
Lanoitakude 01-07-04, 06:43 PM	If you are feeling especially spitefull, you could kill a big chunk of your would-be freinds before changing characters. All of them willingly accept your teleportations, you can use that to your advantage. Cast FLY on yourself, then get everyone ready to teleport. Join hands, and then teleport yourself 1,000 feet in the air. Watch 'em splatter on the ground! (except the druid, she'll just shapechange into a bird). Talk about sour grapes. It would prove to them that you aren't one to be used! If I were a wizard, and I was being used as a taxi, it would make me go postal fast! Remember, this is about having fun! Don't worry about the consequences. If your current character is not enjoyable, play him differently or get a new character. (I strongly suggest you do the trick with teleport, it will be TREEEEEEmendous!) *EDIT* That rapier is godly. No character of 14th level should have something like that...ever....regardless of circumstances. The +5 part is bad enough!
Levism84 01-07-04, 08:25 PM	I was thinking of maybe an alignment change from my chaotic good self to chaotic evil. I could get some of the village children to act as "tagets" for my rod of wonder! "Hey kid, wanna make a piece of copper?" Or i could tie up some of the village people, cast wall of iron (with it vertical) and push it over on them. Or i could just use fly on myself and unleash i bunch of fireballs on the town. mmmmm fireballs. When I think about it, maybe i should have gotten the book of vile darkness instead of exalted deeds. But i dont think that is really in my nature, or the nature of my character. Sure my character used goats for target practice for the rod of wonder, (and when he accidently incinerated one with a fireball in front of the druid, things got really quiet around the table) but in all fairness, my character would probably just go off and do his own thing rather than seek vengance. I wonder... if I were to find a nice secluded spot in the middle of a forest and teleport the party there... (shakes off notion) the druid would get them out....
Vanigo 01-07-04, 11:06 PM	Stop thinking so small. You want a new character anyway; teleport into the bowl of an active volcano. No one's going to live through that, especially if you time it right. And I agree with Lano; that rapier shouldn't be in the party's hands no matter what the story is. Period. Not to mention the fact that piercing weapons like rapiers can't be made vorpal anyway.
Levism84 01-08-04, 12:45 AM	(Maybe it wasn't vorpal... hmm, i know it was still a kick ass rapier...) Ok... here's the plan.... I will be messing with their minds on this one... I'll take a horse and some supplies and go off to the middle of no where, riding straight for a few days. That way the DM can feel free to try and attack me with monsters and the what. I will find a good secluded spot and set up a primative camp. Than I will teleport back to town and ready some more supplies and some hired help (aka the village children dumb enough to come with me to my "magic" fotress of solitude...). Once we arrive, I will instruct them to start digging a large shallow hole in the ground. (by this time, the DM and the fellow adventurers might start to wonder as to the nature of my plans) Once the hole is complete, the kids can have a break... by eating yummy food under a crude shelter i have made. While they eat, I'll manifest a wall of iron next to them and tip it over onto them. "I know i said I'd pay you in copper, but how about in iron?" (Thump!!) If i can dig them out of the iron wall, or if I could get them to eat thier lunch in the shallow hole (DM's discression) I will than hide the bodies and teleport back to the town. I would spend the night at my place, and the children might not be noticed missing until later (so long as I can charge up 3 more 5th level spells). I will than teleport a search party into the area where I last saw them (ie the killing zone) and frage them all with fireballs and walls of fire. If my companions, in character, still dont realize what is going on, I will inform them that I have obviously had a change of heart (is it really that hard to go from chaotic good to chaotic evil?) and I will go back to my sheltered area, occationally making attacks on the town itself. Once they find me, as I know they will, I will use fly on myself and pelt them with fireballs until one side (or both) are no more. At which time we will have punch and pie, and the world will start again. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Or... I could just join the nunnery.... Let me know.
Rerednaw 01-08-04, 01:29 AM	Sounds like the group you are in isn't operating as a team. Also as a level 9 character you should be getting far more experience. For example, if your party takes survives a CR 13 encounter (and no reason why they shouldn't with that epic powered weapon, which also implies that the rest of the party is equally over-equipped) here's the breakdown: Level 14 character gets 2,800 /5 = 560 xp. Level 13 character gets 3,900 /5 = 780 xp. Level 12 character gets 5,400 /5 = 900 xp. Level 10 character gets 9,000 /5 = 1,800 xp. YOU get 10,800 /5 = 2,160 xp That's even if you died. As long are you participated! And that is almost 4x what the level 14 guy is getting plus you don't need nearly as much experience as the others to level. Even if you lost a level for being raised, against the foes you have been facing you certainly should have gotten considerable xp awards after being raised. Also, if epic weapons are the norm, then your party certainly should be springing for True Resurrection, which only needs a 17th level cleric (below epic) every time you get killed because they didn't do their job to help protect you so you don't lose a level. The buddy who got slain and you attempted to recover their corpse, did he compensate you for your loss? And how did an orc character wipe you out with a whirlwind? That means he hit you once. As you are a fighter/bard you certainly should have been able to withstand a single melee attack, unless the DM is pitting you against foes way beyond your capabities, in which case you shouldn't have gone alone and should have chided your party for even suggesting such a suicide mission. It sounds like your DM needs more experience on running a balanced campaign. I just hope you don't get soured on the whole roleplaying genre because of the experience you are having with these people. You could always try another group...or run a game yourself and see how they like the tables being turned. If making a new character will cost you another level, I certainly wouldn't do that. A 9th level wizard, although hampered by being way below the power curve, can still be very effective in combat. I'd certainly push for the intelligence-boosting items suggested by others, and even some ioun stones (purple) for spell storage and a ring of wizardry to increase your spells per day. Craft or buy a wand of enervation and try flying around invisibly (improved) while firing it off. 1d4 levels per hit with NO save is nothing to sneer at.
E-Vile 01-08-04, 01:56 AM	I agree with rerednaw, are you sure your DM knows what he is doing? But whatever you do, don't go on a killing spree, that makes for bad blood in the party and could, especially if you're a new member, end in eviction.
Levism84 01-08-04, 02:35 AM	Yeah, I often wonder about my DM, but in the end, the games are fun and everyone has a good time. I just wish I could find a character that fit me a little better. I want to go the ascetic route, but for my arcane engineer, that would never happen. That is why i want to retire that PC and maybe turn him into a NPC, so i could get a new PC. Since we are more into building and constructing, I was thinking of an ascetic cleric who could act as the village's spiritual leader, or something of that sort. Yes, I might end up being the healing monkey- as opposed to being the teleporter monkey- but that only works if we have fights. Plus, if I through in the vow of nonviolence and peace in there, it really might mess them up. Or i could always go the rout of the ascetic sorcerer, and I would make it so that my spells did not contain teleport. Or i would really have fun playing an ascetic monk. But whatever the case, the whole point of the game is to have fun, right? So if I explain to my DM that I am feeling used and abused in the game and that I am not having any fun, he will more than likely hear me out and we can think of a solution together. (plays sappy music of comradery) All is well in the Land of Narnia.
eudas 01-08-04, 11:19 AM	Originally posted by Levism84 (snip) All is well in the Land of Narnia. Narnia would make a cool campaign setting... =) eudas
Levism84 01-28-04, 04:28 PM	Ok, all things are sort of right in the world (the in-game world). The group had to change a little because of the new semester so it is now: Lv 9 Human Male Arcane Engineer LV 10 Human Female Druid Lv 13 Human Male Druid Lv 14 Human Male Fighter/Defender Lv 10 Half-elf Male Wizard Lv 12 Gnome Male Psionic Warrior My Arcane Engineer decided to go for a walk in the woods, with the fighter/defender as back up, and we were promptly attacked by displacer beasts. We teleported the hell out of there, and when we told the rest of the party about what had happened we went displacer beast hunting. We found three displacer beast pack leaders.. together.. ie HUGE DISPLACER BEASTS, and during combat the level 13 Druid and myself were promptly killed. The rest of the party were able to kill the displacer beasts and than took our bodies to get reserected (true reserection). Long story short, I was reserected at Lv 9, but it was willed so by the goddess Anna (the goddess that loves chaos). So, as part of the deal of me being reserected fully, I must use my rod of wonder at least once a day, and because I am an arcane engineer I cleared it with my DM to have the rod grafted into my left arm (as a tribute to Anna). I am also now a follower of Anna, so she sometimes appears to me. I am also no longer the party's taxi (haha, take that new wizard) and because of the experience I gained during the last few encounters I am now a happy Lv 10 Arcane Engineer. Thanks for all you guys who gave me some good advice to stick with my character and make it work.
Ertai Planeswalker 01-28-04, 10:15 PM	Level 14 character with a +5 Keen Vorpal Rapier of Brilliant Energy? :confused: Level 9 characters able to afford True Ressurection? :confused: What kind of campaign is that?
Matrixy 01-29-04, 05:07 AM	No character change is going to save your stupid campaign, dude. It sucks. You have some unintelligent people in your playgroup. Period.
DakezDarkenblood 01-29-04, 09:46 AM	Originally posted by Ertai Planeswalker Level 14 character with a +5 Keen Vorpal Rapier of Brilliant Energy? :confused: Level 9 characters able to afford True Ressurection? :confused: What kind of campaign is that? If he made a mistake and the weapon is not vorpal it's a +10 weapon... 200k. It's still a little nuts for level 14, sure, but not THAT nuts. And if they're playing 3.0 the true ressurrections are what... 2500 gp? Pocket change.
Levism84 01-30-04, 03:00 AM	Yeah, the sword isnt vorpal, that was my bad. As far as the true reserectuin goes, due to an odd plot twist, the party aquired a masterwork golden chair inlayed with precious gems, crafter by this really kick butt artisan whose worst works sell for about 100,000gp. The chair got each member of the group (the group that found the chair) 2 million gold each. Two of the members no longer play with us, one of the other ones spent a little on woman and wine and the rest invested in the town they are building up, and the other two bought some cool stuff but have a lot of money left- most of which is held a nifty "little" bank that has interest as well... The rich party members bought the true reserection. Also, the DM is desperately trying to get them to spend money because it is cursed and if they spend a lot of it on themselves, than they become cursed, as the spell. The one guy who invested it in the town was smart because he negates the curse and has an entire town thankful to him. Also, if any other the newbie party members need cash for any reason, we have mister moneybags to go to. (It is very entertaining to watch the DM try and calculate the weight of 10 million gold pieces, not to mention the mass.)
Xarrith 01-30-04, 01:28 PM	Wow. The mind boggles. Him having that rapier is small potatoes compared to everyone in the party getting 2 million gold. You can't possibly be carrying it, can you? Sheesh. Where does one store 2 mil in gold safely anyway? I'm really curious about that. Also, you might suggest to your DM that he conjure up, using DM might, a way to change the gold into platinum pieces. Easier numbers to work with, then.
SmiloDan 01-30-04, 03:07 PM	Under a dragon. ;) I played in one campaign, up to level 4, and we never earned a single copper. Good thing I was a ranger. But it was a fun campaign. Heavy on role playing and combat, and you actually cared about the NPCs. They weren't just window dressings or blatant plot hooks or tools to buy potions from, you know?