Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Artisan 09-01-06, 06:02 PM	..or rather, a Commoner/Knight. I'm playing in a game next week, and one of the ideas I ahd was to play a Knight (from PHBII), and I thought to myself "to hell with simple backstory 'down-country hero', I want to have evidence, darnit!" It's wrong, I know, and it'd porbably be stupid, but it would just feel right (until I, of course, got into combat). Or maybe it's just lack of sleep. What do you think? Suicide?
Drodain 09-01-06, 06:10 PM	No, not suicide. Unless the campaigns you usually play in are all about having the optimal character. If it's a slightly more relaxed power level you should be fine. One of my friends made a commoner just to prove that commoners don't suck so horribly and that they could do something if they tried. It proved nothing...he started with more money and had better stats than the average commoner. Oh well you really should be fine as long as you don't over do it like commoner 4/knight 3. 1 lvl in commoner and you should be okay.
The Soul Collector 09-01-06, 06:15 PM	Some of the most fun I've ever had in D&D was to bring a no name nobody from toiling in the farms or mines to become one of the greatest heros in history. I encourage you begin play that early. It will reward you later.
Artisan 09-01-06, 06:17 PM	Hmmm....encouraging sound so far - do you think it would be wrong of me to have 1 extra feat to help counteract being a freakin' commoner?
The Soul Collector 09-01-06, 06:22 PM	I would say no, just because if you're going to do it, do it all the way. I mean, true, one stray stone and your plant food but like all fantasy novels that start this way go through the same. With a bit of luck and skill, you will overcome these growing pains and when you are ready to take down that fiendish half-hydra wyrm red dragon, you can tell of the tales when you were beset by kobold raiders and barely held your own. Don't cheat yourself from becoming a legend.
Artisan 09-01-06, 06:23 PM	True, true - don't know why I suggested that, I've grown up playing WFRP, generally, even born-to-fight warriors are screwed in that system...
Artisan 09-01-06, 06:32 PM	My word... fortune favours the Commoner, apparently. the stats I've just rolled are... 15, 16, 11, 15, 16, 17 I'll take thata s a good omen...
The Soul Collector 09-01-06, 06:33 PM	Dang, your back story better account for these outstanding stats by reflecting life as a paragon of your race. :)
Archangel62 09-01-06, 08:33 PM	You were born for one purpose to be the dunn dunn dunn.... IRON PEASANT Sorry, old memories from a game I was in.
DraconsNighthawk 09-01-06, 10:00 PM	Playing commoners is FUN. I DMed a game where the two players and a npc were adopted and thus grew up as a family. They were level 1 commoners and set out to the campagin world. Their first adventure was stopping the animals at the farm who were slipped potions. (Potions of animal growth, blink, rage for the chicken which was funny. KILLER CHICKEN) After a few more adventures, they gained a level, and went hybrid commoner/class they were going to be, (using the DM 3,0 dual class as a guideline) Now the party is commoner/bard, commoner/wizard and commoner/fighter. Not to mention they are KIDS! Well, teens anyway. 13-16 each.
The Soul Collector 09-01-06, 11:21 PM	What we're actually doing is starting a 0 level campaign which lets you avoid having a permanent annoying commoner level and allows you to really start from the bottom rung.
Salla 09-02-06, 02:29 AM	Hmmm....encouraging sound so far - do you think it would be wrong of me to have 1 extra feat to help counteract being a freakin' commoner? I generally prefer the idea that the PCs are, for whatever reason, 'special' out of the gates and thus not gimped with professional classes. Destiny, desire, whatever ... you knew they were going to be a cut above. However ... if you use the retraining rules from the PHB2, I might actually consider something like that, since you could 'cash in' that functionally useless commoner/warrior/expert/etc. level ...
Terraneaux 09-02-06, 03:46 AM	All commoners in my games get a +5 flaming antimatter rifle of infinite ammo that is cursed to return to them every sunrise. I figure it evens things out a bit.
Shaggy_Shaggs 09-02-06, 04:05 AM	If you can work out a way to get around missing attacks from BAB problems (counterattacker builds are nice for that), Commoner 1 can go straight into the Survivor PrC (from Savage Species) at level 2, if you can get the requisite training. It'd be 5 more levels of 0 BAB and no new weapon/armor proficiencies, but you'd get Improved Uncanny Dodge, Improved Evasion, and DR 5/-, as well as strong progression for all 3 saving throws for those 5 levels. It could be good for representing the "not really terribly competent, but gets along anyway" peasant before you go into knight training. I've been considering doing something like this myself, though I'd do it as a goblin. :D
Artisan 09-02-06, 10:24 AM	If you can work out a way to get around missing attacks from BAB problems (counterattacker builds are nice for that), Commoner 1 can go straight into the Survivor PrC (from Savage Species) at level 2, if you can get the requisite training. It'd be 5 more levels of 0 BAB and no new weapon/armor proficiencies, but you'd get Improved Uncanny Dodge, Improved Evasion, and DR 5/-, as well as strong progression for all 3 saving throws for those 5 levels. It could be good for representing the "not really terribly competent, but gets along anyway" peasant before you go into knight training. I've been considering doing something like this myself, though I'd do it as a goblin. :D Hmmm...very interesting, very interesting indeed... this got me thinking about a character - take my stats, and make him a half-orc, vowed to protect the downtrodden like him; eventually, I think he could become... Half-Orc Lvl Commoner 1/Survivor 5/Knight 3/Outcast Champion 1 What do you think? Of course, it is a shame that the Outcast Champion can't just be called 'Champion of the Weak', and be allowed for any race... actually, I might talk to my Dm about that EDIT: Oh, and I decided to roll up some new stats... EDIT: CURSES! http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?a=show&id=594903
Shaggy_Shaggs 09-02-06, 10:48 AM	I don't have the source for Outcast Champion, so I can't really comment on that. I think the half-orc charisma penalty could hurt you a bit, but the increased strength will help a bit with hitting things, as will Fighting Challenge (your BAB's going to either be +3 or +4, depends on if Outcast Champion has full BAB or not). You're definitely going to need Karmic Strike to keep up on damage output. Those high ability scores are good, you can get the Int 13 after racial penalties needed to qualify for Karmic Strike. Bulwark of Defense should help with keeping enemies on you once they get to you, so you can continue to pound on them for pounding you. Remember to grab Combat Reflexes and keep your Dex up, so you can make more than one extra attack per round with it, if opportunities present themselves. I think your 11 should probably go to Wis - your base will save from Commoner 1/Survivor 5/Knight 3 will be a decent +7, if the Outcast Champion uses it as a strong save that'll go up to +9. You need Str to compensate for low attack bonus, Dex for AoOs, Con for hp, Int for requisites and Cha for at least one class feature. I think this could work out, but you'll need to take care to set up advantageous attack circumstances for yourself. Flanking, high ground, tripped opponents, etc, anything to bring your attack bonus up as high as possible. Later on you may want to look into the Goad feat to keep melee enemies on you, and getting a Wrathful Healing weapon (from Enemies & Allies) to keep your hp up while you're trading blows with heavy hitters.