Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hexlicious 04-30-07, 08:35 AM	Well hello all... I have recently joined a group, first (ever! :w00t: ) group is getting together on friday. I would like to know other than the standard things (Dice, Paper, Rulebooks, Etc.) how can i assure everyone is going to have fun and i won't just drag them down... :( So pretty much im looking for things i should remember, and ways i can make sure everyone has the maximum amount of fun! Also, I would like your advice on the class i have chosen... We will be: Cleric Monk Rogue (Me) So pretty much the cleric will be our tank and if he goes down ouch time! But i am also thinking about should i roll a fighter or barbarian... Seeming that i am not completely sure what the capabilities of any class truely is. (Have read the handbook over and over again but! Can not get a feel with any class unless you play with one) Oh! And last thing... Through only reading the rules with what weapon damage is. To my eyes of what i have read it seems i should just get a great sword (good damage, and not really a better weapon:( )but that is wrong for a rogue...So is it that i just i'm missing something or what... To me the more damage it does the better! Thankyou for reading and your in-put will be well received!
daggeroflath 04-30-07, 09:25 AM	I have recently joined a group Congratulations. Also, I would like your advice on the class i have chosen... A rogue is a very handy person to have. You have a great reflex save, so you'll be awesome at dodging fireballs and traps. You have more skills than anyone else in the group, so you get to be quite good at everything. It's pretty awesome. To my eyes of what i have read it seems i should just get a great sword (good damage, and not really a better weapon:( )but that is wrong for a rogue... This is why it's not on the rogue's proficiency list, you have to learn how to use one. Rogues can use Simple weapons. The great-sword is a Martial weapon, you need an extra feat to use it. So is it that i just i'm missing something or what... Yes, but don't worry it's pretty minor. Weapons have a lot of different traits. Doing more damage is great, but you've also got your critical threat range (how likely you are to do an awesome double or triple damage attack). You've got the three different weapon types, slashing, piercing and bashing which doesn't make a huge difference but sometimes it's important. Like against skeletons you need a bashing weapon, because you're trying to smash bones. If you use a greatsword it's so big you need two hands, so you can't also use a shield (and get a better AC) or a second weapon (and get an extra attack). Some weapons can be used with your Dexterity instead of your Strength (if you have the right feat. It's called weapon finesse). The rapier doesn't do much damage but you can use your Dex instead. There's a lot of complex stuff that the different weapons can do. It's not all about the damage. And don't worry too much about how "roguey" you are. Conan the Barbarian was a thief, so stereotypes only go so far.
kelvinaw273 04-30-07, 09:32 AM	Rogue and fighter are good first choices. If the cleric is tanking, you will need to support him - get in, flank foes and use sneak attack. You have lots of skills, so use them to their best effects. Ask the other player's advice on tactics, and you will do fine.
goawayugh 04-30-07, 09:44 AM	Rogue is a VERY good choice for a first-timer. When I first started playing (about 4 years ago) my first character was a rogue. You get LOTS of skill points, and sneak attack is very useful. If the party cleric is the main melee guy, you should be up there with him, flanking and using sneak attack a lot. Ranger is also a good choice for newbies. You get full base attack bonus and still a lot of skill points (though not quite as much as a rogue). Personally, I despise the fighter class. They are completely useless outside of combat. Plus as a newbie, you will have a ton of feats to remember what they do. As far as a weapon goes. Damage is nice, but it deffinatly isn't everything. I would choose a rapier. You can pick up the feat Weapon Finesse to use your Dex mod instead of your Str mod on attacks (I'm assuming that since your a rogue, your Dex is a good deal higher than your Str). Plus a rapier has an 18-20 threat range. I would rather get a weapon that has a bigger threat range than one that will do more damage (just a personal preferance). I probably would stick with rogue if I were you, they are very fun (not to mention useful! Just wait until your party comes across locked doors, or better yet, traps!)
Hack and Smasher 04-30-07, 10:14 AM	Flank and stab, flank and stab. Thats you job in combat make sure to it while trying not to get out numbered. Weapon wise a spear (knife on a stick action) and a light mace (2 if you got two weapon fighting (which recommend along with weapon finess).
darkneolink 04-30-07, 06:46 PM	The rogue would be a good choice Pick 2 weapon fighting and weapon finesse Rapier and from here you can a) go with 2 rapiers b) go with a morningstar and a Rapier because you won't be needing the shield much as it interferes with your best skills and being the skill monkey you don't need that hampering you if you go with option b you'll have (if i'm not mistaken) slahs damage from the rapier and bludgegoing and piercing damage or you could go with rapier + sap/club + shortbow/crossbow and you have with those 2 options all kinds of damage taken on consideration don't forget to use a well bluff to feint in combat and you can SA on your own good luck
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 04-30-07, 09:18 PM	Other nice things to consider: if you're a rogue in combat, remember sneak attack. It's your nicest option. Learn to set up a flank. Possibly take Telling Blow if PH2 is allowed (you get sneak attack damage if you get a critical hit - which rapiers do a lot). You may also want to look into the feat Improved Feint. That could help getting in some sneak attacks. Is the DM new too? Your group has three players. Challenge Rating lists what's an appropriate challenge for an average (not beginner), balanced party of four. Balanced normally means a healer (usu cleric), primary melee combatant, skill monkey (the rogue), and arcane caster (usu wizard). Ranged support can often be nice, as well as battlefield control and buffs. Good luck, and I hope you enjoy it. My first time wasn't that long ago.
Hexlicious 04-30-07, 09:36 PM	Other nice things to consider: if you're a rogue in combat, remember sneak attack. It's your nicest option. Learn to set up a flank. Possibly take Telling Blow if PH2 is allowed (you get sneak attack damage if you get a critical hit - which rapiers do a lot). You may also want to look into the feat Improved Feint. That could help getting in some sneak attacks. Is the DM new too? Your group has three players. Challenge Rating lists what's an appropriate challenge for an average (not beginner), balanced party of four. Balanced normally means a healer (usu cleric), primary melee combatant, skill monkey (the rogue), and arcane caster (usu wizard). Ranged support can often be nice, as well as battlefield control and buffs. Good luck, and I hope you enjoy it. My first time wasn't that long ago. Ph2 Isnt that the strength of a acid:confused: Please explain... And from what i have heard from the cleric the Dm is experienced. Thanks for all your in-put guys!
ShadowDragon8685 04-30-07, 09:44 PM	PH2 is a typo of the acronym PHB2, which stands for "Player's Handbook II". Why don't you come back and tell us what books the DM is allowing; that will help us give you better advice. [edit] Off the bat, I can tell you that if you make the right Rogue, there is no reason that a Greatsword or Greataxe-wielding Rogue is a bad thing. Just take Martial Weapon Proficiency (Greatsword/Greataxe). If you're starting at level 2 or higher, forget Greatsword/Greataxe and take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Jovar). The Jovar is a weapon from the Planar Handbook, deals the same damage as a Greatsword (2d6), and has an 18-20 critical threat range, which means you'll threaten a critical hit roughly 15% of the time, assuming your dice are perfectly fair. (They never are.) It also makes it a great candidate for the Keen magic property or the Improved Critical feat, both of which will double the critical threat range to 15-20, which will let you threaten roughly 25% of the time... Which isen't really mathematically fair, since a real doubling of your crit range would let you threaten on a 14-20, which would be twice 15%, IE: 30%, but let's not get off on a tangent. :) So, which books does your DM allow? Which books do you have access to and are willing to read through and learn the rules in?
Hexlicious 05-01-07, 02:27 AM	PH2 is a typo of the acronym PHB2, which stands for "Player's Handbook II". So, which books does your DM allow? Which books do you have access to and are willing to read through and learn the rules in? All i know is right now we are only working out of the players handbook (for now, the Dm said when he has more of a feel of how we play. He will add books and other rules yadda yadda yadda. But what i am willing to do is completely different! I want to learn this game really well! So just tell me what books to read and i will save up for them.We are starting at level one btw (soory forgot to mention) Did not realise what PHB2 meant thankyou! (Sorry if there are any grammar or spelling issues, i'm typing in a rush)
ShadowDragon8685 05-01-07, 02:36 AM	Books you'll need really, really depends on what you want to play. Um, okay... If you're a cherry newbie to the game, just go Fighter. It's like the racing games with different cars, it's the craptastic car with the amazing acceleration rate and the crappy top speed. By eigthth level, if your party has any kind of good spellcasters, you'll hate it and want to start a new character, which is as good a time as any to retire/suicide the Fighter and start something new. Or, you can go with a Rogue. I can build you a Core-only Rogue with a Greatsword. Yes, you CAN Sneak Attack with a Greatsword - you can Sneak Attack with anything. Here, I'll come up with a sample character of 1st level for some good classes that dosen't include throwaway feats and retarded choices. I'm going to assume the mathematic average of starting gold; it would be nice if you could get your DM to hand out maximum gold on start-up. [edit]It really, really would help if you told us what point-buy your DM was using. If you're not using point-buy, it's a complete crapshoot, beg your DM for a point buy. 32 if you can get it, more if you can get it. Not 25 or 28. WALK if he offers you a 25 or a 28 - it's just not worth playing.
MrSpaceBear 05-01-07, 02:40 AM	Bring a calculator. It helps the DM add up the loads of damage he'll dish out on you.
ShadowDragon8685 05-01-07, 02:42 AM	Bring a calculator. It helps the DM add up the loads of damage he'll dish out on you. Stop scaring the newbie. That's his DM's privlidge.
Hexlicious 05-01-07, 02:55 AM	Books you'll need really, really depends on what you want to play. Um, okay... If you're a cherry newbie to the game, just go Fighter. It's like the racing games with different cars, it's the craptastic car with the amazing acceleration rate and the crappy top speed. By eigthth level, if your party has any kind of good spellcasters, you'll hate it and want to start a new character, which is as good a time as any to retire/suicide the Fighter and start something new. Or, you can go with a Rogue. I can build you a Core-only Rogue with a Greatsword. Yes, you CAN Sneak Attack with a Greatsword - you can Sneak Attack with anything. Here, I'll come up with a sample character of 1st level for some good classes that dosen't include throwaway feats and retarded choices. I'm going to assume the mathematic average of starting gold; it would be nice if you could get your DM to hand out maximum gold on start-up. [edit]It really, really would help if you told us what point-buy your DM was using. If you're not using point-buy, it's a complete crapshoot, beg your DM for a point buy. 32 if you can get it, more if you can get it. Not 25 or 28. WALK if he offers you a 25 or a 28 - it's just not worth playing. Ok first of all i would like to say you guys are great! I was not saying i wanted a great sword as much as saying.I see greatsword makes people go ouch and rapier makes people brush away a mosquito. So pretty much that am i just looking at the numbers, and is this wrong. If you want to roll up a character then...I will find those things for you :P ok...It is not a point buy system but you roll 6 lots of stats using 4 dice discard the lowest... The highest lot i rolled was 15, 13, 14, 16 ,14 ,12 Not sure if you want the second best so here goes 17, 7, 9, 16, 9, 16 and the starting gold is 110 (thanks once again xD) Bring a calculator!?! A calculator you say? I am a human calculator! Muahah!! Umm... Yes *cough* got a bit side tracked. I suppose some of the fun would be a Dm pumping away at a calculator looking like you did something very very bad :D
ShadowDragon8685 05-01-07, 03:12 AM	Uhhh... Yeah. You want that second set if you plan on taking ANY kind of melee character. You can stand being dumb, stupid and charismatic as a post - it works for Jayne Cobb. If you want to play a Rogue, or any kind of a primary spellcaster, you want the second. I'll build up some basic characters for you, just to give you an idea of where you want to go.
Hexlicious 05-01-07, 03:34 AM	Uhhh... Yeah. You want that second set if you plan on taking ANY kind of melee character. You can stand being dumb, stupid and charismatic as a post - it works for Jayne Cobb. If you want to play a Rogue, or any kind of a primary spellcaster, you want the second. I'll build up some basic characters for you, just to give you an idea of where you want to go. But the rogue is not a spell caster?!?! I think i will wait and look at what you are talking about!
ShadowDragon8685 05-01-07, 04:11 AM	No, Rogue is not a spellcasting class. It has a class skill called Use Magic Device, which lets it (with considerable investment in the skill; nothing you could nearly do at level 1) use magic items, but it's not the same as casting spells. Here (http://www.rpgwebprofiler.net/view.php?id=52180) is a dirt-basic Fighter build. It starts out pretty darn powerful, and will go up in power until by about level 5, everyone in the party will hate you for being so damn powerful. Then by level 8, they'll think "You're no big deal", and by level 10 you'll be the one angry at them for stealing your thunder. Here's how it works. Charge straight into melee, power attacking for one point with you two-handed weapon. Read the rules on Power Attack carefully, they are here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#powerAttack) So, you subtract 1 from your attack roll, and since you will be using a two-handed weapon, add two to your damage. Also carefully read this: Using a Weapon Two-Handed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#wieldingaWeaponTwoH anded). So, let's review. Your BAB is +1. Your Strength is +3. You're not using a Masterwork Weapon, so let's forget that for now. When you Charge at something (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#charge) (that's another link), you take a -2 penalty on your Armor Class, but get a +2 to attack. See where I'm going? You'll be rolling a d20 and adding 5 (commonly known simply as 1d20+5), to determine your attack roll. If this number meets or exceeds the opponant's Armor Class, you hit! If not, well... Better luck next time. Anyway, +5 is good for first level, so let's talk about what happens if you hit. You're going to roll 1d10 weapon damage - all of the two-hand weapons I gave you roll a d10. This is NOT by mistake, it's to make this easy on you. If you fin a Greatsword and pick it up - well and good. Likewise, if you get to 2nd level and want to boost your armor class because you don't like getting hit so much, get a shield, take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword) and use your Bastard Sword in one hand, and a shield in the other You're probably not going to want to go for armor heavier than a Chainmail Shirt - with your dex bonus, most heavier things would be a waste, and they'd slow you down. If you got the chance to get a Mithral Breastplate, go for it, but you won't be playing a fighter that long, I think. Anyway, weapon damage. Roll a d10, and add your bonuses. That's +2 from Power Attack, and 4 from Strength - 3 is your base strength, 3 times 1.5 is 4.5, round down to four. So you're adding 6, otherwise known as 1d20+6. Unless you're having the devil's time hitting something that you know you can kill in one hit without the +2, there is no reason whatsoever not to Power Attack for 1 point. You get twice what you lose in damage, and when you Charge, you're still at a net +1 to hit. Now, what happens if you're up against two enemies? Try to run so that when you end your turn, you'll have both of them in melee range - you can hit diagonally at no penalty! If you hit and are fortunate enough to drop your first one (dropping him to -1 or lower), you get to make a free, instant attack on the other one at NO PENALTY. That means you roll exactly what you rolled last time. So, if you're up against an AC 15 Goblin with only 6 hit points, you hit him stastically 52.5% of the time (you hit if you only meet his AC; so on a 10 or above), and automatically kill him. If you drop the power attack, you only need a 9 to hit, raising that to 55%, with the admitted drawback that 10% of the time (a roll of 1 on the 1d10) you will only drop him to 0 hit points, not kill him (and thus qualify for cleave) on the first hit. Now, that's the traditional fare for 1st-level adventurers, goblins. Now you see why a Fighter is the tops out of the gate? With a little work, you can set yourself up to auto-kill the little bastards. If you had that Greatsword - or any two-handed weapon which dealt any two dice of damage, there would be no contest. You would automatically kill it on any roll. I've given you all the tools to hit things and make them stay down. At this level, Fighter is very literally the top of the dog-heap. Only a Raging Barbarian can surpass him, and only while his Rage lasts. The reason I gave you Improved Initiative is to give you a fightin' damn good chance to get to be first to act - you're armored like a rogue, and about as fast. When a fight starts, you roll 1d20+7. That gives you a great chance of catching someone Flat Footed - look that one up yourself, I'm tired, but basically it gives you an even better chance of hitting. And for those times when battle is joined and you don't wipe everyone out before anyone else can act? If the party has a rogue, or any other melee character, FLANK WITH THEM. If you flank with the Rogue, you BOTH get +2 to hit with no drawback, but the Rogue can Sneak Attack at whim.
ShadowDragon8685 05-01-07, 04:14 AM	Sometime tomorrow, I'll try to whip up a Rogue. Oh! I forgot. Use whichever weapon you like on most enemies. If you come up against Skeletons, use the Flail! If you come up against Zombies, use the Sword or the Halberd, and Slash with the Halberd (which may freely choose to deal Slashing or Piercing damage type.) If you don't seem to be getting anywhere by slashing or bashing - and remember to remind the DM that he needs to tell you the difference between "miss" and "hit but failed to do damage", then switch to Pierce. I don't, off the top of my head, recall any monsters vunerable specifically to Piercing damage, but the option is there, so keep a weapon handy to spike 'em with.
DrMorganes 05-01-07, 11:36 AM	Ok first of all i would like to say you guys are great! I was not saying i wanted a great sword as much as saying.I see greatsword makes people go ouch and rapier makes people brush away a mosquito. So pretty much that am i just looking at the numbers, and is this wrong. If you want to roll up a character then...I will find those things for you :P ok...It is not a point buy system but you roll 6 lots of stats using 4 dice discard the lowest... The highest lot i rolled was 15, 13, 14, 16 ,14 ,12 Not sure if you want the second best so here goes 17, 7, 9, 16, 9, 16 and the starting gold is 110 (thanks once again xD) Bring a calculator!?! A calculator you say? I am a human calculator! Muahah!! Umm... Yes *cough* got a bit side tracked. I suppose some of the fun would be a Dm pumping away at a calculator looking like you did something very very bad :D If you're going rogue, you'll need to read up. Rogues generally have a higher Dexterity score than Strength score, so it's VERY common for rogues to take the feat Weapon Finesse (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFinesse) at Level 3. (Note the feat's prerequisite of Base Attack Bonus +1 or better. As a rogue you don't get that until Level 2, so you cannot take Weapon Finesse until you get your next feat at Character Level 3.) Greatswords, being very large swords, are NOT Finessable. Sure you'll do more damage on average when you hit, but you'll likely hit more often with a rapier. Rapiers also have a larger critical threat range than a greatsword, meaning you'll multiply your base damage more often. However, the rogue's greatest combat strength is Sneak Attack (SA). Consider: at Level 1 you get +1d6 to damage whenever you make a successful SA. When flanking, you get that EACH AND EVERY ATTACK. If you're using a rapier (which does 1d6 damage), this DOUBLES your weapon's damage. For free. SA damage goes up by an additional +1d6 every 2 rogue levels your character gains, so by Level 3 that non-magical rapier is doing 3d6 damage when you can Sneak Attack. If you take Weapon Finesse as your 3rd Level feat, you'll also get a bonus to your attack rolls equal to your DEX bonus. To put some numbers to this, we'll use the ability array you mentioned in the post I quoted (great rolls, by the way!). The numbers in parentheses is the bonus associated with that ability score. STR: 14 (+2) DEX: 16 (+3) CON: 14 (+2) INT: 15 (+2) WIS: 12 (+1) CHA: 13 (+1) Honestly, feel free to swap everything around except your DEX. I strongly encourage rogues to put a high value into INT as well. You'll get more skill points and a bonus to your Disable Device checks. I put your 14s into STR and CON because you'll be in combat a fair amount helping your cleric, so you'll need the extra HP and damage. This rogue gets +3 to DEX-related skill checks (and +3 to attack rolls if you take Weapon Finesse and use a finessable weapon), +2 to your weapon damage rolls, +2 HP per level, 2 additional skill points per level (that's 8 extra at Level 1!), +2 to INT-related skill checks, and +1 to WIS- and CHA-based skill checks. At Level 1, you'll have 8 HP (max HP on a d6 Hit Die +2 for your CON score) a Base Attack Bonus of 0 (yay rogue. :( ), and add +2 to ALL your damage rolls. When you make a successful Sneak Attack, this goes to +1d6+2. If you're using a rapier, that's a total damage of 2d6+2. By Level 3, with the right feat and weapon choice, you'll have +4 to your attack rolls (+1 BAB, +3 DEX bonus from Weapon Finesse), and +2d6+2 to your weapon damage on a Sneak Attack (total damage of 3d6+2). Conversely, if you go the greatsword route, at Level 1 you'll have +2 to your attack rolls (from your STR score) and still have the +1d6+2 on a Sneak Attack. (That's 3d6+2 damage total with the greatsword on a SA). At Level 3 you'll have +3 to your attack rolls (+1 BAB, +2 STR) and be doing 4d6+2 sneak attacking with your greatsword.
Amon_WinterfallIV 05-01-07, 11:46 AM	If you are a rogue, your Strength may well be your dump stat. Consider putting a 10 in strength (or even your low score there) and taking the weapon finesse feat. Also, the idea of burning a feat for Bastard Sword is HORRIBLE. You're trading a feat for +1 damage with an attack. If you want more damage, go Mercurial Longsword (2d6). Why anyone would ever use a Bastard Sword is totally beyond me. Or, you might to use Weapon Finesse with a light weapon Besides Strength, there is not a whole lot you can skimp on, so make a well rounded character. Sneak Attacks are God--don't forget that with the right feat, you can feint, and deny someone their dex to defense--offering you another sneak attack. Or, bring along potions of invisibility.
ShadowDragon8685 05-01-07, 01:36 PM	People use Bastard Sword because the book where Mercurial Longsword appears is not available to them. Frankly, don't dump STR. So many Rogues have gotten into trouble because they weren't strong enough to lift their stuff it's not funny. Unless you want to make a veakling, that is. If you go with the 14 STR and 16 Dex, there's no real reason to take Weapon Finnese - it's the difference between +2 and +3 to hit, and a whole nother 1d6 from the greatsword that you've given up.
darkeness 05-01-07, 01:54 PM	WALK if he offers you a 25 or a 28 - it's just not worth playing. Not only is that bad advice, it's imature. 25 or 28 point buy does not make for very tough characters, that is true. But to not play because of it? Throw yourself on the ground and throw a tempertantrum while you are at it. If you go with the 14 STR and 16 Dex, there's no real reason to take Weapon Finnese - it's the difference between +2 and +3 to hit, and a whole nother 1d6 from the greatsword that you've given up. Now that is solid advice. I would suggest staying away from the greatsword. Use a rapier and pick up improved fient at level 3 (although this means you need combat expertise at level 1). Later, when your Dex is higher and enhanced by magic I would go with weapon finease. Although if you are laying a race with a Dex inhancement like halfling or elf ignore what I said and go with weapon finease at 3rd level! As a general rule, unless your dex & str are more than 1-2 bonus points apart taking things like weapon finease is a sub-optimal choice. Of course, playing style and personal prefence come into play here also. Remember, in combat tumble is the rogues best friend!
MrSpaceBear 05-01-07, 02:16 PM	If I were a rogue I dont think I would take a bastard sword. Although it is personal preferance. I would take mabye a scimitar or falchon. It as an +18 critical and when you eventualy get the Improved Critical feat, it will be a +15, pluss any sneak attack damage you do. Or fight with 2 scimitars, on top of everything else. You cant go wrong!
ShadowDragon8685 05-01-07, 05:01 PM	Okay, try This Combat Rogue (http://www.rpgwebprofiler.net/view.php?id=52203). It's an okay level 1 build. The thing to remember is that, repeat after me... You are not the Fighter! You are not the Fighter! You are not the Fighter! Your job is still the same as other Rogues - see things and disable traps. In combat, you take a more active role. The idea with this Rogue is to flank enemies with other party members and take them out with your sneak attacks. You're not going to outdo the Fighter, but rolling 3d6+2 is not bad damage. You're a better secondary combatant than most Rogues, but you still need to not take the first string fight position.
Hexlicious 05-01-07, 05:36 PM	Hello all! (Was in bed:( ) Ok i think i have somewhat confused what i was saying about the greatsword... I was not saying i want one, at all... It was a completely different paragraph also. I was just saying that i see 2d6 and then 1d6 and i think well 2d6 is so much better why would they even put in a weapon of 1d6 so i was just asking have i missed something, because i am just reading the weapons from paper not actually played with any of them. (after saying that i think the concept of a rogue wielding lots and lots of pain kind of appealing, but through reading what you guys have said i will take another crack at the feats section, also i would like to say i was not! going to burn a feat for the sword! Ever! Hehe. To the i should walk statement... I couldn't if i wanted to (which i dont) we are a bunch of friends and that would be mean :'( Seeing the combat rogue in the ac what is other for:confused: To all of you who have contributed i would like this time to say thanks! Was a great help now i need to get off the forums and actually roll up my special rogue!
Thamio 05-01-07, 08:05 PM	When I first joined a group I had no clue DnD was a game of the imagination at the time, no wonder i couldnt find it in the electronics dept. at walmart. But I was just myself picked a random class Elf fighter Listen to the other players as they made suggestions, and just did what i wouldve done in real life. How good your character is based on your luck with the dice, dicision making, and acting dealing damage of 2d20 you still can get 2 points of damage.